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Gameplay & Matchmaking

Discussing MK Gameplay, Strategies, Tournaments and Online Matchmaking.
Page of 5

FlamingTPPosted: 04/02/2011 11:04 PMStatus ::


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Nationality::United States
MK2011 High Level Gameplay and character description thread. (4/30/2011) List completed (alpha)

I have created this thread for the purpose of tournament gameplay discussion, and to list high level attributes for characters for those of us playing in a dedicated format. I would like people to help if they can getting as much information as possible. It is my hope to get this list complete by the first MKO Tournament if possible. Contributors will be credited for their work. Glossary of terms is located at the bottom of the list. For all Tier explanations see character description.

Baraka (Speed: medium, Power: medium, Difficulty: medium)
-Tier:
-Character Traits: Anti Air, offence/defence
-X-ray attack power: 35%
-X-ray type: Offensive dash
-Combo into/out of X-ray: yes/no
-Combo Damage Information: (average combo range 9-24%) (Highest Known Combo % includes x-ray: )
-Counter: ranged, offencive teleports, annoyance, area denial, free hit

-Description: Baraka is a middle of the road character in all aspects except recovery speed, which is a weakness, misplaced anti air chopping moves result in easy teleport punishment and due to hit many multi-hit specials, any character with a counter or a parry canreally devistate an unprepaired Baraka. Not a bad character if your enemy likes to jump a lot, if the enemy is wise to baraka's strong points, baraka will often find himself doomed.

Cyber Sub-Zero (Speed: slow, Power: high, Difficulty: hard)
-Tier:
-Character Traits: area denial, annoyance, defence, free-hit, teleport
-X-ray attack power: 36%
-X-ray type: Offensive dive kick
-Combo into/out of X-ray: yes/no
-Combo Damage Information: (average combo range 10-33%) (Highest Known Combo % includes x-ray: )
-Counter: offensive teleports, turtle punishers

-Description: Cyber Sub has one major advantage over the standard version in that he has an ice parry, Cyrax's bomb moves and a teleport. however like sub-zero he is still quite slow and many of his moves have long recovery times. As a result Cyber-Sub can get his ass handed to him quite quickly by teleport based punishes.

Cyrax (Speed: Fast, Power: medium, Difficulty: hard)
-Tier:
-Character Traits: Area Denial, Passive Teleport, Anti Air, Free Hit, Offensive
-X-ray attack power: 30%
-X-ray type: Offensive/defensive anti-air attack (opponent can be on ground or air, air is best.)
-Combo into/out of X-ray: no/no
-Combo Damage Information: (average combo range 14-37%) (Highest Known Combo % includes x-ray: )
-Counter: Screen Teleport, Ranged, Turtle Punisher (cause damage during net throw/bomb drops)

-Description:Cyrax is a relatively fast character with a lot of interesting options other characters don't have. use of his fast teleport, net, ranged blade attack, and anti air x-ray punisher, make him an extremely tough character to keep on the defensive and any skilled player, will have no trouble holding their own with him. The only reliable counter when faced with his specials are punishing screen teleports due to the fact that Cyrax already has a teleport of his own and it is quite fast. Bombs are easy to spot and avoid so Cyrax players should use these as possible combo setups and to keep less mobile characters playing hot potato instead of focusing on kicking your ass.

Ermac (Speed: Fast, Power: medium, Difficulty: medium)
-Tier: Top
-Character Traits: Ranged, anti-air, Annoyance, Offensive Screen Teleport, ranged, Offensive
-X-ray attack power: 35%
-X-ray type: Offensive Ranged
-Combo into/out of X-ray: yes/no
-Combo Damage Information: (average combo range 10-46%) (Highest Known Combo % includes x-ray: )
-Counter: Area Denial, Annoyance

-Description:Ermac's telekinetic throws have quite the range to them for a "short range" grab. sweep distance is a fair bet in gameplay situations. the grab also has a high hit box so jumping isn't exactly a way to avoid it. this and his offensive screen teleport option combined with Ermac's fast speed make him really annoying for players without teleportation and long ranged options. He doesn't have as many options as Cyrax though and it a bit easier to beat; for this reason Ermac has been placed in the top rather than God tier.

Jade (Speed: ludicrous, Power: low, Difficulty: medium)
-Tier:
-Character Traits: Speed, Anti Ranged, Offensive
-X-ray attack power: 35%
-X-ray type: Offensive
-Combo into/out of X-ray: yes/no
-Combo Damage Information: (average combo range 9-39%) (Highest Known Combo % includes x-ray: )
-Counter: Annoyance, Area denial, Defensive

-Description: Jade is a faster, more grabby version of Johnny Cage. She also has the ability to fade through projectiles and as a result is better at fighting off ranged characters than johnny. Unfortunately for her, this also means that jade players are generally more likely to get in your face and as a result can get pounded by counter based attacks....like johnny cages (oh yeah!)

Jax (Speed: Medium, Power: high, Difficulty: medium)
-Tier:
-Character Traits: Offensive/Defensive, Annoyance
-X-ray attack power: 41%
-X-ray type: Defensive counter/offensive grab
-Combo into/out of X-ray: no/no
-Combo Damage Information: (average combo range 9-29%) (Highest Known Combo % includes x-ray: )
-Counter: Ranged, Area Denial, speed

-Description: Jax is a slower but powerful character with an x-ray counter attack. He works like Johnny Cage but has more defense in his role because of the slower speed and extra power.

Johnny Cage (Speed: Fast Power: Medium Difficulty: Easy)
-Tier: Top
-Character Traits: Speed, Annoyance, Area Denial, Offensive/Defensive
-X-ray attack power: 37%
-X-ray type: Counter
-Combo into/out of X-ray: no/very little
-Combo Damage Information: (average combo range 9-63%) (Highest Known Combo 80% includes x-ray: Yes)
-Counter: Area Denial, defensive, Ranged,

-Description:Johnny cage is a relatively high speed character with standard and basic custom combos reaching into the 20s and lower 30s. This makes him an Offensive character type most of the time. When his X-ray comes into play the character has the option to take on a Defensive, Annoyance, and area denial role, requiring opponents to carefully consider their next moves. Failure to do so will result in severely decreased ability for enemy characters to have children.

Kabal (Speed: very fast, Power: medium, Difficulty: medium)
-Tier:
-Character Traits: Free hit, offensive, ranged
-X-ray attack power: 34%
-X-ray type: Dash special offensive
-Combo into/out of X-ray: yes/no
-Combo Damage Information: (average combo range 10-37%) (Highest Known Combo % includes x-ray: )
-Counter: teleport, annoyance

-Description: Kabizzall in da' house dawgs! this character has quick blows and takes ho's yo! his ground saw is a good combo option to take down the block jockeys and his speedy free hit option will help you plan your next big hitter. Good all-around character but he has no teleport, and his speed will cause problems if you are fighting against parry wielding fighters.

Kano (Speed: medium, Power: high, Difficulty: easy)
-Tier:
-Character Traits:
-X-ray attack power: 41%
-X-ray type: Offensive grab
-Combo into/out of X-ray: ?/no
-Combo Damage Information: (average combo range 11-33%) (Highest Known Combo % includes x-ray: )
-Counter:

-Description:

Kenshi (Speed: , Power: , Difficulty: )
-Tier:
-Character Traits:
-X-ray attack power:
-X-ray type:
-Combo into/out of X-ray:
-Combo Damage Information: (average combo range -%) (Highest Known Combo % includes x-ray: )
-Counter:

-Description: Doesn't need eyes to gouge your's out.

Kitana (Speed: very fast, Power: low, Difficulty: hard)
-Tier: top
-Character Traits: Speed, Free Hit, anti-air, ranged
-X-ray attack power: 31%
-X-ray type: Ranged offensive
-Combo into/out of X-ray: yes/no
-Combo Damage Information: (average combo range 14-43%) (Highest Known Combo % includes x-ray: )
-Counter: Ranged, Teleport

-Description: Lots of devistating juggle options with kitana combined with a top-of-the-screen special give her an advantage against medium speed, non-teleporting individuals. Kitana sports a decent ranged game due to the speed and timing of her fans. high mobility characters like raiden will easily be able to open cans of whoop-ass to kitana players in an evenly matched battle.

Kung Lao (Speed: fast, Power: medium-low, Difficulty: medium)
-Tier: God
-Character Traits: Speed, Offensive, Ranged, offensive teleport, anti-air
-X-ray attack power: ~31%
-X-ray type: Offensive
-Combo into/out of X-ray: yes/no
-Combo Damage Information: (average combo range 13-36%) (Highest Known Combo % includes x-ray: )
-Counter: annoyance, anti-air

-Description: Kung Lao appears to be a prime ass-kicker in this game with a great offensive teleport, decent speed and a good anti air option. He even sports a low projectile if you are in trouble. annoyance characters can hurt him eith counter moves but a careful kung lao has the power to dominate anyone in the field.

Lady in red (Speed: , Power: , Difficulty: )
-Tier:
-Character Traits:
-X-ray attack power:
-X-ray type:
-Combo into/out of X-ray:
-Combo Damage Information: (average combo range -%) (Highest Known Combo % includes x-ray: )
-Counter:

-Description:

Liu Kang (Speed: very fast, Power: medium, Difficulty: medium)
-Tier:
-Character Traits: Offensive, High Combos
-X-ray attack power: 30%
-X-ray type: Offensive flip-kick launcher
-Combo into/out of X-ray: yes/yes
-Combo Damage Information: (average combo range 9-44%) (Highest Known Combo % includes x-ray: )
-Counter: Annoyance, Area Denial, Anti-Ranged, teleport

-Description: As fas as I currently know Liu Kang is the only character that has an x-ray that can be comboed on both ends of the spectrum. He's quick, agile and has a parry which offset the fact that he has the most recognizeable (and therefore blockable) special moves in mortal kombat history. a high variety of combos and decent speed help liu greatly but teleporters can be a problem for him if they are fast enough.

Mileena (Speed: Very High, Power: very low, Difficulty: medium)
-Tier: Top
-Character Traits: Speed, Offensive, High Combos
-X-ray attack power: 33%
-X-ray type: Offensive
-Combo into/out of X-ray: yes/no
-Combo Damage Information: (average combo range 14-36%) (Highest Known Combo 67% includes x-ray: yes)
-Counter: Defensive, Area Denial, Annoyance, Free Hit

-Description:Mileena is pure speed, she gets in your face and stabs the shit out of you, Her hits-per combo can be particularly high and the use of her Enhanced Ball Roll can really help to confuse a player. Opponents of Mileena players should keep their block button on alert.

Nightwolf (Speed: very-fast, Power: medium, Difficulty: medium)
-Tier:
-Character Traits: ranged, anti-Ranged
-X-ray attack power: 34%
-X-ray type: Counter-attack
-Combo into/out of X-ray: yes/no
-Combo Damage Information: (average combo range 12-40%) (Highest Known Combo % includes x-ray: )
-Counter: teleport, area-denial

-Description: Nightwolf isn't the best character around and a lot of his good combos come out of slow special moves. as a result nightwolf isn't that easy of a character to play. When fighting nightwolf is a very fast character aside from some of his specials. but when it comes to covering ground Nightwolf has problems. teleporters and otherwise high-mobility characters will have a field day with him as a result.

Noob Saibot (Speed: LUDICROUS SPEED GO!!! Power: Medium, Difficulty: medium)
-Tier:
-Character Traits: Speed, Confusion, offensive Teleport, anti-air
-X-ray attack power: 36%
-X-ray type: Tactical Teleport Offensive
-Combo into/out of X-ray: yes/no
-Combo Damage Information: (average combo range 9-28%) (Highest Known Combo % includes x-ray: )
-Counter: Annoyance, Defensive characters

-Description: Noob Saibot appears to be the fastest character in the game. His extremely fast jump punish teleport keeps any enemy who likes to jump hurting. Make use of dashes and stay on the ground if you want any hope of beating an expert Noob player. If your in the air when not comboing or you don't have noob in a stun, you are in for a world of pain. Even without the fast teleport he's still a good fighter. The only problem is if you get pressured using Noob, things can get challenging.
Quan Chi (Speed: medium, Power: very high, Difficulty: hard)
-Tier:
-Character Traits: free-hit, damage buff, health buff, ranged
-X-ray attack power: 32% 43% with buff
-X-ray type: Offensive
-Combo into/out of X-ray: yes/no
-Combo Damage Information: (average combo range 12-42%) (Highest Known Combo % includes x-ray: )
-Counter: teleport, turtle punisher

-Description: Quan Chi is unique in that he has the only buff spell in the game, using his skeliton special he can get a damage and health buff to dole out incredible amounts of extra pain. the ability to heal himself is also a bonus. The down side to quan chi is he's not all that fast a fighter and his buff and trance spells have a painful recovery time so punishers with their block game on will tare appart quan chi.

Raiden (Speed: very fast, Power: medium, Difficulty: medium)
-Tier: God (hahahahaha get it? but seriously folks)
-Character Traits: Teleport
-X-ray attack power: 34%
-X-ray type: Offensive
-Combo into/out of X-ray: yes/no
-Combo Damage Information: (average combo range 9-39%) (Highest Known Combo 51% includes x-ray: no)
-Counter: annoyance, anti-ranged, anti air

-Description: Raiden's got hoe's, and with his Shocker to flying torpedo combos he can sent them to different area codes! outside of combos raiden relies heavily on ranged and teleport options, if you dont make wise use of the teleport, anti-ranged enemies can give you a pounding. Just keep it varied and speedy and the hoes will stop calling you.

Reptile (Speed: fast, Power: medium, Difficulty: Hard)
-Tier:
-Character Traits: Area Denial, Confusion, Free Hit
-X-ray attack power: 33%
-X-ray type: Offensive
-Combo into/out of X-ray: yes/no
-Combo Damage Information: (average combo range 7-42%) (Highest Known Combo % includes x-ray: )
-Counter: Speed, Ranged

-Description: Reptile is a quick little bastard but his invisability move doesn't really help unless it is the completely blacked out inhanced version. a good all around character to work with but he isn't the best either. all-in-all nothing special.

Scorpion (Speed: High Power: medium-Low Difficulty: Medium)
-Tier:
-Character Traits: Ranged, Annoyance, Offensive/Defensive, Offensive Screen Teleport, Turtle Punisher
-X-ray attack power: 30%
-X-ray type: Tactical Screen Teleport Offensive
-Combo into/out of X-ray: yes/no
-Combo Damage Information: (average combo range 9-43%) (Highest Known Combo 76% includes x-ray: no)
-Counter: Annoyance, Speed, ranged

-Description:Scorpion is a Jack of all trades character with speedy special moves and medium speed standard attacks. Defensive area denial Players will find a good Scorpion player difficult due to the instantaneous hellfire and long range spear attack. The down side to this is projectiles that cause damage will kill any spear attack in motion. Scorpion's x-ray can also be nullified by counter moves and if caught is easy to block. Players must plan their moves and combo into the x-ray if they can. Scorpion's tele-spam may or may not be in the final product, tier is top if it is in, middle if not.

Sektor (Speed: fast, Power: medium-high, Difficulty: medium)
-Tier:
-Character Traits: Annoyance, Offensive Teleport, ranged
-X-ray attack power: 32%
-X-ray type: Offensive ranged
-Combo into/out of X-ray: yes/no
-Combo Damage Information: (average combo range 13-36%) (Highest Known Combo % includes x-ray: )
-Counter: Annoyance

-Description: Sektor has a decent array of ranged options including a tracking missile which is great for giving the enemy something else to think about, use it to pester them or generate extra combo oppertunities. The good old teleport uppercut is back for some good old ranged punishing.

Shang Tsung (Speed: medium, Power: medium, Difficulty: hard)
-Tier: God
-Character Traits: Confusion, ranged, area denial, annoyance
-X-ray attack power: 33%
-X-ray type: Offensive
-Combo into/out of X-ray: yes/no
-Combo Damage Information: (average combo range 12-31%) (Highest Known Combo % includes x-ray: )
-Counter: teleports, anti-ranged

-Description: Tsung can morph into any character he wants so he is essentially everyone, as such I had no option but to put him in the God Tier because he could just morph into the gods in the game. if you dont count that Tsung is a great ranged character that unfortunately isn't very good at much else. The thing is that he's so good at ranged, you wont ever have to find out his issues elsewhere if your enemy cant get in close...or if they have a teleport.

Sheeva (Speed: slow, Power: very high, Difficulty: hard)
-Tier:
-Character Traits: Unblockable non-grab special move, anti air, turtle punisher
-X-ray attack power: 33%
-X-ray type: Ranged Stomp
-Combo into/out of X-ray: no/no
-Combo Damage Information: (average combo range 11-%) (Highest Known Combo % includes x-ray: )
-Counter: area denial, free-hit

-Description: Sheeva is a low hit combo character but her blows are powerful, and as to be expected, her stomp is unblockable. Any punishing highblow such as an uppercut will swat her out of the air on her way down however. sub-zero's clone is also a wonderful option to put her in her place. her stomp is punishable and her moves aren't all that varied. When her blocking is good however Sheeva becomes a dificult character to beat.

Sindel (Speed: fast, Power: medium, Difficulty: hard)
-Tier:
-Character Traits: Free Hit, Ranged
-X-ray attack power: 31%
-X-ray type: Offensive grab
-Combo into/out of X-ray: yes/no
-Combo Damage Information: (average combo range 9-36%) (Highest Known Combo % includes x-ray: )
-Counter: teleport, anti-air annoyance

-Description: Sindel is a hard character to master but when you do she can be a rewarding fighter to use. quick combos and free hits are the name of her game and projectile work can get pretty nasty too. however characters with teleport, anti air and counter options can put her down quick as long as they keep their block game strong.

Smoke (Speed: Fast, Power: medium, Difficulty: medium)
-Tier:
-Character Traits: Anti-air, Offensive, Anti-Ranged, offensive teleport, confusion. area denial
-X-ray attack power: 34%
-X-ray type: Offensive Teleport
-Combo into/out of X-ray: yes/no
-Combo Damage Information: (average combo range 12-43%) (Highest Known Combo % includes x-ray: )
-Counter: Screen Teleport

-Description: And so enters Ninja Gai...erm I mean Smoke. Smoke has a rather annoying ability to get a free juggle going if you land his smoke cloud projectile but thats always good if you are using him as a character. His moves are varied and simple and anyone should have little trouble picking him up for play. one of his best traits is getting non-mobile characters to dodge his smoke cloud and then punish them for it. but offensive teleports can cause him projectile issues. all around a good, but not great fighter.

Sonya (Speed: very fast, Power: low, Difficulty: medium)
-Tier:
-Character Traits: free hit, Offensive,
-X-ray attack power: 33%
-X-ray type: Offensive combo
-Combo into/out of X-ray: yes/no
-Combo Damage Information: (average combo range 11-40%) (Highest Known Combo 45% includes x-ray: yes)
-Counter: Annoyance, area denial, free hit

-Description: Sonya is a very fast character with an xray that appears to go through projectile damage. projectiles hurt sonya while in x-ray but the move still continues. the xray is a combo though so if dodged or blocked sonya is left wide open for counter attack. especially by a free hit move. for this reason she is placed at middle tier for the moment

Stryker (Speed: medium, Power: medium, Difficulty: medium)
-Tier:
-Character Traits: Ranged, anti-ranged
-X-ray attack power: 28%
-X-ray type: Offensive
-Combo into/out of X-ray: yes/no
-Combo Damage Information: (average combo range 9-34%) (Highest Known Combo % includes x-ray: )
-Counter: teleport

-Description: Stryker is a man who doesn't enjoy a lot of flash, unless you count his Shocker brand Taser. Stryker has a great assirtment of launchers and basic combos. So many that his specials dont require a lot of varience. his baton roll special is absolutely wonderful for punishing those high ranged attackers. then after he is done with that, he can blow their head off.

Sub-Zero (Speed:Low Power:High Difficulty:Hard)
-Tier: Middle
-Character Traits: Power, Area denial, Defensive, Free Hit
-X-ray attack power: 33%
-X-ray type: Offensive
-Combo into/out of X-ray: yes/no
-Combo Damage Information: (average combo range 11-35%) (Highest Known Combo 68% includes x-ray: y)
-Counter: Speed, Annoyance, Ranged.

-Description:Sub-Zero can be difficult to play due to the technical nature of his basic moves, but if mastered can be quite deadly. His high focus on area denial and defense may be a detriment against very experienced players, so Sub-Zero players should adopt a more aggressive or unpredictable strategy to win in some cases. Sub-Zero is particularly vulnerable to ranged attackers due to the fact projectiles and Sub-Zero himself can pass through his Ice clone. Due to this and the fact that his ground freeze is slow. Sub-Zero has been placed in the middle tier, regardless of some of his ridiculously high damage combos.


Glossary:
Combo information:
-Average Combo Range lists the lowest and highest damage combos that can be done starting from midscreen, this does not include x-ray moves, glitches, exploits or wall based combos.
-Highest Known Combo lists the highest damage combo possible that can be done without using glitches, or exploits and whether or not the combo requieres an x-ray to be done.

Character Difficulty Scale:
-Easy: Character has simple combos to remember and custom combos are easily implemented almost right away.
-Medium: Characters require a look at their move list and some practice before all basic combos can be mastered, custom combos are not hard to pull off.
-Hard: Simple combos utilize all 3 or 4 buttons and thus take longer to memorize than other characters basics. Only relatively good players will be able to master these characters. Hopefully that would be everyone here participating in the tournaments.

Character Tier scale: (be aware that this is always up for debate)
Bottom: These characters are worthless in tournament play.
Middle: These characters can be used in tournaments but it can be difficult to pull off a win against more advanced players
Top: These characters are universally accepted to be viable tournament choices.
God: These characters are great, possibly but not necessarily broken, and tend to see massive use in tournament play.

-Damage Scale: (average damage output of the character's basic moves) very low to very high

-Speed scale: very slow to ludicrous

-Counter: list of the character traits best used to counter the listed character.


Character trait Glossary:
-Confusion: Characters with this trait use moves that confuse and disorient the opponent player, such as invisibility or mirror images.

-Teleport: Character Possesses a directly-behind-the-opponent style teleport, includes both damaging and non damaging teleports

-Screen Teleport: Character Possesses a teleport that sends them to the other side of the screen, includes both damaging and non damaging teleports.

-Anti-Ranged: Character possesses the ability to reflect, Dodge, or otherwise be immune to, oncoming projectile attacks.

-Annoyance: An annoyance Character, also known as a trap character, uses counters and punishing attacks, often with stun effects. Opponents of these character players have to think more about what they are doing than otherwise.

-Area Denial: These characters use their powers to keep you where they want you, many characters with this type also tend to have the Free-hit type. Good players are very dangerous with these types of character but these characters are also harder to learn in general.

-Offensive: Characters that prefer to be on the attack, these characters usually use a lot of speed and generally, but not always, have access to offensive X-ray attacks. Characters can also be both offensive and defensive at the same time.

-Defensive: Characters that have this trait tend to be slower than offensive players but have more powerful attacks and use area denial. Characters can also be both offensive and defensive at the same time.

-Free Hit: characters with this trait have moves that render opponents stunned momentarily to allow for "free hits". Failure to land these attacks leaves the character open for a counter attack. Opponents of these characters need a keep a sharp focus on the block button for that reason.

Ranged: this trait describes characters that are good at keeping a lot of space between you and your opponent.

Anti-Air: Character has a lot of anti air options that are higher than normal or are a part of special moves.

Turtle Punisher: Character has quick unblockable moves that punish cowards, desperate blockers, and block victim punishers. these fighters can end annoying matches more quickly.

Dragon Points:
m0s3pHPosted: 04/03/2011 12:58 AMStatus ::


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Nationality::United States
RE: MK2011 High Level Gameplay and character description thread.

5 DPs for you sir. However, this should go in Strategy, so I'm going to move it there. I'm going to sticky this thread in there as well.

FlamingTPPosted: 04/03/2011 01:55 AMStatus ::


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RE: MK2011 High Level Gameplay and character description thread.

Thanks, I'd like some PAX people to let me know some stats they remember for other characters so I dont have to figure out all the other people on the 19th lol. It will probably take me from release until may tournament time to complete the list without help.

SubMan799Posted: 04/03/2011 12:44 PMStatus ::


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RE: MK2011 High Level Gameplay and character description thread.

You can't really say that Mileena and Cage are top/god tier from a demo with four characters.

FlamingTPPosted: 04/03/2011 03:13 PMStatus ::


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Visits::1408
Nationality::United States
RE: MK2011 High Level Gameplay and character description thread.

SubMan799 Wrote:
You can't really say that Mileena and Cage are top/god tier from a demo with four characters.


I can estimate their positions though, This list is a work in progress you know. the actual positions will be determined after people start ripping up each other with certain characters in the tournaments and final determinations will be made.

Joe-Von-ZombiePosted: 04/04/2011 01:38 PMStatus ::


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Nationality::United States
RE: MK2011 High Level Gameplay and character description thread.

SubMan799 Wrote:
You can't really say that Mileena and Cage are top/god tier from a demo with four characters.


Scorpion's better than both of them in the demo.

Photobucket Sig by MINION
WandererPosted: 04/04/2011 02:06 PMStatus ::


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RE: MK2011 High Level Gameplay and character description thread.

Has a bit too much in the way of Pokemon terminology (what's the point in having attack and special attack as separate sections? It's all the same damage output in a fighting game) but it's a good template list that's easy to use.

Seriously needs to be in alphabetical order by character, at least until we manage to gather tier listings and sort them that way.

And hopefully the retail game will have numerical annotations in the data for things like damage output and walking speed so we can have hard numbers instead of estimates.

FlamingTPPosted: 04/04/2011 03:09 PMStatus ::


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RE: MK2011 High Level Gameplay and character description thread.

Wanderer Wrote:
Has a bit too much in the way of Pokemon terminology (what's the point in having attack and special attack as separate sections? It's all the same damage output in a fighting game) but it's a good template list that's easy to use.



Seriously needs to be in alphabetical order by character, at least until we manage to gather tier listings and sort them that way.



And hopefully the retail game will have numerical annotations in the data for things like damage output and walking speed so we can have hard numbers instead of estimates.


Indeed, I considered putting everything alphabetical but for the moment I just threw up the basic list of the people already in the game plus the DLC ones. I consider annoyance and trap characters more of a universal terminology but again when the list is done I want everyone to be happy with it. any format changes are welcome.
Joe-Von-Zombie Wrote:
SubMan799 Wrote:
You can't really say that Mileena and Cage are top/god tier from a demo with four characters.


Scorpion's better than both of them in the demo.
again currently its personal experience and we're going to need hard data on everyone before an accurate list can be made. Also I have come to the decisions made so far due to playing with other human players. So far Scorpion doesn't seem to do as well as Mileena or Cage unless allowed to do that multi tele-punch spam, which may not even be allowed by tournament rules in the future or may have already been coded out of the game.

FlamingTPPosted: 04/04/2011 05:26 PMStatus ::


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RE: MK2011 High Level Gameplay and character description thread.

List alphabetized.

WandererPosted: 04/04/2011 06:46 PMStatus ::


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RE: MK2011 High Level Gameplay and character description thread.

FlamingTP Wrote:
List alphabetized.


Awesome.

Joe-Von-ZombiePosted: 04/04/2011 11:47 PMStatus ::


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RE: MK2011 High Level Gameplay and character description thread.

FlamingTP Wrote:
Wanderer Wrote:
Has a bit too much in the way of Pokemon terminology (what's the point in having attack and special attack as separate sections? It's all the same damage output in a fighting game) but it's a good template list that's easy to use.





Seriously needs to be in alphabetical order by character, at least until we manage to gather tier listings and sort them that way.





And hopefully the retail game will have numerical annotations in the data for things like damage output and walking speed so we can have hard numbers instead of estimates.




Indeed, I considered putting everything alphabetical but for the moment I just threw up the basic list of the people already in the game plus the DLC ones. I consider annoyance and trap characters more of a universal terminology but again when the list is done I want everyone to be happy with it. any format changes are welcome.

Joe-Von-Zombie Wrote:
SubMan799 Wrote:
You can't really say that Mileena and Cage are top/god tier from a demo with four characters.




Scorpion's better than both of them in the demo.


again currently its personal experience and we're going to need hard data on everyone before an accurate list can be made. Also I have come to the decisions made so far due to playing with other human players. So far Scorpion doesn't seem to do as well as Mileena or Cage unless allowed to do that multi tele-punch spam, which may not even be allowed by tournament rules in the future or may have already been coded out of the game.


Fair enough, I wasn't aware you weren't including broken shit.

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FlamingTPPosted: 04/04/2011 11:57 PMStatus ::


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RE: MK2011 High Level Gameplay and character description thread.

Joe-Von-Zombie Wrote:
Fair enough, I wasn't aware you weren't including broken shit.


You had a fair point, I just think its probably coded out of the game, at this point its all just guesses, I have no clue what's been done to the game since then. most players I've played with get a breaker going before I can get anywhere with the tele-punch combo anyway.

BloodfangPosted: 04/05/2011 12:59 PMStatus ::


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RE: MK2011 High Level Gameplay and character description thread.

FlamingTP Wrote:
Joe-Von-Zombie Wrote:
Fair enough, I wasn't aware you weren't including broken shit.




You had a fair point, I just think its probably coded out of the game, at this point its all just guesses, I have no clue what's been done to the game since then. most players I've played with get a breaker going before I can get anywhere with the tele-punch combo anyway.


If Sub-Zero is listed with Average Combo Damage 25%-40% Scorpion should also have a similar range as he is both easier and more likely to do so even without the tele-spam. Also in regards to the mid-combo teleport I am hoping that it will limited to 2 per combo max that would make him significantly less broken and more tournament viable but still enable him to do an easy and brutal 10 to 12 hit 45?-49% combo depending on whether the set-up strikes (square, square before spear) are blocked or not. As long the Spear hits you are guaranteed mid to high 40's% I am almost certain. I tend to do 45% with it more often but if I land all the set-up strikes it is 49% and oh yeah... requires NO meter, NO wall, can be done anywhere and at anytime so that gives him a boost in tier level IMO. Sub-Zero's really good combos ALL require good or lucky positioning (like being close enough to have the time to land a Pop-Up JP before the freeze time runs out for example), optimal situations (like wall), or his meter for ES or X-ray. Scorpion needs none of these things. If Spear connects then foe takes a ton of damage. Of course with how easy it is to block or counter the non-ES spear that is actually a fairly decent sized IF.

Square, Square, Spear, JP Pop-up, Dash to Back+Triangle, JK, Teleport, JK, Teleport, JK, Airthrow. 12 hits, 49%.

Only two teleports so I don't know if this combo would be excluded from Tournament play. If not... yeah Scorpion could dominate in near God tier except for how easy it is to defend against and punish his specials I could see THAT dropping him to Top Tier despite his damage but just with HOW easy it is to do 20-49% damage with him just ack. I mean JUST JK, Airthrow does 20% and can be used VS air or even VS Standing opp. if you space the jump kick and time it right!!

Also I find using said combo against the opponent when they have just drained their bar to nothing using ES moves, a Combo-breaker to get out of some other combo (or the same combo if you wanna be a huge jackass, lol), or a successful x-ray (or much better a failed attempt at one). This combo WILL build up their bar quickly but if it is empty they won't have a breaker before you've managed to deal at least high 30's to mid 40's MINIMUM and that is IF (big IF if memory is correct) they are in fact able to at all which I don't think they can unless they already have the first bar close to filled already because of just how FAST my B&B with him hits/ends.

If you wanna X-ray Combo then it will hit almost as hard but even faster with less opportunity for combo breaker (unless again they already have one ready or are extremely close to it).

Square, Square, Spear, Forward+Triangle, Square, X-ray. 48%, good luck combo breaking if low on bar.

I dunno take this into consideration or dismiss it. Just my opinion but I've posted this same stuff time and time again on this board and others regarding Demo gameplay discussions, early tier discussions, Scorpion gameplay discussions, etc. Most people probably just skip it over when they see me post like "Something new? Nope same.. skip. lol." Would like to hear a more tournament caliber player's (than me) thoughts though.

-"The Meaning of Life is all in the moment. At this moment, this is my life, so I must make this my meaning." ~Bloodfang~
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FlamingTPPosted: 04/05/2011 08:18 PMStatus ::


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RE: MK2011 High Level Gameplay and character description thread.

Bloodfang Wrote:
FlamingTP Wrote:
Joe-Von-Zombie Wrote:
Fair enough, I wasn't aware you weren't including broken shit.






You had a fair point, I just think its probably coded out of the game, at this point its all just guesses, I have no clue what's been done to the game since then. most players I've played with get a breaker going before I can get anywhere with the tele-punch combo anyway.




If Sub-Zero is listed with Average Combo Damage 25%-40% Scorpion should also have a similar range as he is both easier and more likely to do so even without the tele-spam. Also in regards to the mid-combo teleport I am hoping that it will limited to 2 per combo max that would make him significantly less broken and more tournament viable but still enable him to do an easy and brutal 10 to 12 hit 45?-49% combo depending on whether the set-up strikes (square, square before spear) are blocked or not. As long the Spear hits you are guaranteed mid to high 40's% I am almost certain. I tend to do 45% with it more often but if I land all the set-up strikes it is 49% and oh yeah... requires NO meter, NO wall, can be done anywhere and at anytime so that gives him a boost in tier level IMO. Sub-Zero's really good combos ALL require good or lucky positioning (like being close enough to have the time to land a Pop-Up JP before the freeze time runs out for example), optimal situations (like wall), or his meter for ES or X-ray. Scorpion needs none of these things. If Spear connects then foe takes a ton of damage. Of course with how easy it is to block or counter the non-ES spear that is actually a fairly decent sized IF.



Square, Square, Spear, JP Pop-up, Dash to Back+Triangle, JK, Teleport, JK, Teleport, JK, Airthrow. 12 hits, 49%.



Only two teleports so I don't know if this combo would be excluded from Tournament play. If not... yeah Scorpion could dominate in near God tier except for how easy it is to defend against and punish his specials I could see THAT dropping him to Top Tier despite his damage but just with HOW easy it is to do 20-49% damage with him just ack. I mean JUST JK, Airthrow does 20% and can be used VS air or even VS Standing opp. if you space the jump kick and time it right!!



Also I find using said combo against the opponent when they have just drained their bar to nothing using ES moves, a Combo-breaker to get out of some other combo (or the same combo if you wanna be a huge jackass, lol), or a successful x-ray (or much better a failed attempt at one). This combo WILL build up their bar quickly but if it is empty they won't have a breaker before you've managed to deal at least high 30's to mid 40's MINIMUM and that is IF (big IF if memory is correct) they are in fact able to at all which I don't think they can unless they already have the first bar close to filled already because of just how FAST my B&B with him hits/ends.



If you wanna X-ray Combo then it will hit almost as hard but even faster with less opportunity for combo breaker (unless again they already have one ready or are extremely close to it).



Square, Square, Spear, Forward+Triangle, Square, X-ray. 48%, good luck combo breaking if low on bar.



I dunno take this into consideration or dismiss it. Just my opinion but I've posted this same stuff time and time again on this board and others regarding Demo gameplay discussions, early tier discussions, Scorpion gameplay discussions, etc. Most people probably just skip it over when they see me post like "Something new? Nope same.. skip. lol." Would like to hear a more tournament caliber player's (than me) thoughts though.


Well I'm not one to skip a long post if it is well written and you make a compelling argument. I'm thinking of changing how I write the combo percentage because of this.

The only issue is you are not talking about an "average" combo. you've got a complex well-thought-out set of combos there. Average combo damage is how much damage set combos in the moves list, and common custom combos generate. So thats why the damage is rated as low as it is at the moment. Sub-Zero can get a 68% combo that I have seen but it is not an "average" combo.

That said, I might just give the entire combo range in the future instead of listing average combo damage if everyone wants it that way. Also keep in mind damage scaling has vastly improved since the demo build. At least thats what people from PAX and NRS have said. For now its just guesswork. I will need to get a capture card this month and get a bunch of volunteers to data mine for me grinding the game for info when it comes out to get this list done. Especially since my skills are not high enough to pull off the intense combos yet.

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FlamingTPPosted: 04/06/2011 10:46 PMStatus ::


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RE: MK2011 High Level Gameplay and character description thread.

Alright people, we have a mere 2 weeks until this beast hits the shelves. If any of you are so inclined to help me out I will need players to record their matches to see what kind of combos can be done and please add your own descriptions of the characters if you wish. we need to get this list done, and it should be as accurate as possible. I will credit people with their work. Please note this includes the four demo characters as they have no doubt been rebalanced since the demo build is quite old.

BloodfangPosted: 04/08/2011 06:41 AMStatus ::


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RE: MK2011 High Level Gameplay and character description thread.

I see what you mean about the combos. I was coming from the idea of taking a large and varied sample of the combos that the character is known to be capable of and listing the range of damage that TENDS to be done most often (statistically speaking this would be called the "mode" range) and using that as the statistical range. This still presents issues because some characters like Cage for example CAN do crazy high damage BUT only in "ideal situations" like after his x-ray (if you can pull that off.. I can't seem to land anything more than a shadow kick reliably unless they are near the wall) or up against the wall.

I would greatly prefer the range be taken from combos that can be done anywhere and anytime and use those to find the most common range of damage dealt but some characters are specifically designed to require "situations" for optimal game play so this would underrate them.

I dunno just a thought, lol. I tend not use or put much stock in combos that NEED to be done off a wall or require some bizarre, good luck pulling that off on a real opponent, type setup. No offense to the hardcore combo kings, I love their combo vids but starting a combo off with the neutral JP Pop-up hit just isn't practical. It's awesome but good luck pulling that mid-fight. Same with combos that require you to be close to a wall. More useful sure 'cause it does come up but I just don't consider them reliable enough to be the "bread and butter" combos on which the character is statistically graded on. Again just my opinion most would probably disagree with this use of the statistic.

-"The Meaning of Life is all in the moment. At this moment, this is my life, so I must make this my meaning." ~Bloodfang~
kagedfighterPosted: 04/08/2011 02:55 PMStatus ::


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RE: MK2011 High Level Gameplay and character description thread. (volunteers wanted)

First, thanks to the one(s) that made this forum, this is a really kick ass idea.

Next, I have found a very simple way to snatch a flawless on expert with Scorpion almost every match, every time (on the demo, of course). It may take some quick reaction time and playing fast enough to create CTS, but it works... a lot!

If you use your three low-punch combo (called Torment in the moves list), followed immediately (and I mean Immediately) with a spear, it sets you perfectly for a Forward + Square, and Low kick combo (the combo is called Grievance in the moves list) followed quickly with Hellfire. Hellfire sets you up perfectly to go right back into your three low punch/spear combo. Do that a few times and after getting a few spears hit you x-ray move and that will seal the deal.... FLAWLESS VICTORY!

So, that's 'Torment' followed with a Spear, while they're dazed hit 'Grievance' followed by Hellfire, do that a few more times (timing is crucial the whole way) after your last Torment/Spear combo and the life is low enough hit the x-ray, and you're good to go. I would assume that if you're playing people that are not used to the game this will be very difficult to defend. They only get 1 breaker every 2 lines of meter, so this advantageous. Good players can recognize this pattern though and break it... the computer, not so much!

WINS

FlamingTPPosted: 04/08/2011 09:32 PMStatus ::


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RE: MK2011 High Level Gameplay and character description thread.

Bloodfang Wrote:
I see what you mean about the combos. I was coming from the idea of taking a large and varied sample of the combos that the character is known to be capable of and listing the range of damage that TENDS to be done most often (statistically speaking this would be called the "mode" range) and using that as the statistical range. This still presents issues because some characters like Cage for example CAN do crazy high damage BUT only in "ideal situations" like after his x-ray (if you can pull that off.. I can't seem to land anything more than a shadow kick reliably unless they are near the wall) or up against the wall.



I would greatly prefer the range be taken from combos that can be done anywhere and anytime and use those to find the most common range of damage dealt but some characters are specifically designed to require "situations" for optimal game play so this would underrate them.



I dunno just a thought, lol. I tend not use or put much stock in combos that NEED to be done off a wall or require some bizarre, good luck pulling that off on a real opponent, type setup. No offense to the hardcore combo kings, I love their combo vids but starting a combo off with the neutral JP Pop-up hit just isn't practical. It's awesome but good luck pulling that mid-fight. Same with combos that require you to be close to a wall. More useful sure 'cause it does come up but I just don't consider them reliable enough to be the "bread and butter" combos on which the character is statistically graded on. Again just my opinion most would probably disagree with this use of the statistic.


Hmm, this will take a lot more work to determine but what about combo ranges that go from 0 on the enemy super meter to the hit that gives them a breaker. in a good fight that would be the maximum damage we might be looking at.

The other idea is your idea that I should just input the combo range of "do from anywhere combos" but I cant really test this until after the game comes out with the 4 characters in the demo. I'm pretty sure they've been changed a lot.

TheDarkPassengerPosted: 04/09/2011 09:03 PMStatus ::


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RE: MK2011 High Level Gameplay and character description thread.

FlamingTP Wrote:
Bloodfang Wrote:
I see what you mean about the combos. I was coming from the idea of taking a large and varied sample of the combos that the character is known to be capable of and listing the range of damage that TENDS to be done most often (statistically speaking this would be called the "mode" range) and using that as the statistical range. This still presents issues because some characters like Cage for example CAN do crazy high damage BUT only in "ideal situations" like after his x-ray (if you can pull that off.. I can't seem to land anything more than a shadow kick reliably unless they are near the wall) or up against the wall.





I would greatly prefer the range be taken from combos that can be done anywhere and anytime and use those to find the most common range of damage dealt but some characters are specifically designed to require "situations" for optimal game play so this would underrate them.





I dunno just a thought, lol. I tend not use or put much stock in combos that NEED to be done off a wall or require some bizarre, good luck pulling that off on a real opponent, type setup. No offense to the hardcore combo kings, I love their combo vids but starting a combo off with the neutral JP Pop-up hit just isn't practical. It's awesome but good luck pulling that mid-fight. Same with combos that require you to be close to a wall. More useful sure 'cause it does come up but I just don't consider them reliable enough to be the "bread and butter" combos on which the character is statistically graded on. Again just my opinion most would probably disagree with this use of the statistic.




Hmm, this will take a lot more work to determine but what about combo ranges that go from 0 on the enemy super meter to the hit that gives them a breaker. in a good fight that would be the maximum damage we might be looking at.



The other idea is your idea that I should just input the combo range of "do from anywhere combos" but I cant really test this until after the game comes out with the 4 characters in the demo. I'm pretty sure they've been changed a lot.


The thing about breakers is that someone may opt to use or not use the breaker depending on the match situation. For example, I start a combo with Scorpion, and the enemy started with 0 super guage, and during a combo that would eventually net 60% damage the opponent gets a breaker. Now, they will probably get the breaker after most of the damage from that combo has been done (being that it builds from damage), so it may not be advantageous to use the breaker to save 10% at the end of a massive combo. Also, maybe the person doing the combo has a huge health lead, so it wouldn't make sense to use up your meter to save a single combo when they could save it for the next round.

My point with all of this is: there are too many factors in a match to make sense of maximum combo damage accounting for breakers. However, I would base the combo ranges on midscreen combos, as they are the most likely to happen in a match. Corner combos WILL happen, but let's say someone averages 20-30% midscreen, but can pull 55% in a corner--now compare that to someone who averages 30-40% midscreen, but can only muster 45% in the corner. If you list with corner combos the ranges would be:

20-55%
and
30-45%

It may look like the top person averages higher, but actually doesn't as the frequency of mid-screen combos will be much greater in actual matches.

Also, I would not account for any combos that start with a JP-Popup, because these combos are video showcases that have no actual use in a match.

Nice thread, I think having a quick look to guide to get an idea of how a character plays will be helpful to the community. I'm writing an in-depth strategy guide, so I should have some info if you need a hand with anything. Let me know

FlamingTPPosted: 04/09/2011 11:32 PMStatus ::


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RE: MK2011 High Level Gameplay and character description thread.

TheDarkPassenger Wrote:




The thing about breakers is that someone may opt to use or not use the breaker depending on the match situation. For example, I start a combo with Scorpion, and the enemy started with 0 super guage, and during a combo that would eventually net 60% damage the opponent gets a breaker. Now, they will probably get the breaker after most of the damage from that combo has been done (being that it builds from damage), so it may not be advantageous to use the breaker to save 10% at the end of a massive combo. Also, maybe the person doing the combo has a huge health lead, so it wouldn't make sense to use up your meter to save a single combo when they could save it for the next round.



My point with all of this is: there are too many factors in a match to make sense of maximum combo damage accounting for breakers. However, I would base the combo ranges on midscreen combos, as they are the most likely to happen in a match. Corner combos WILL happen, but let's say someone averages 20-30% midscreen, but can pull 55% in a corner--now compare that to someone who averages 30-40% midscreen, but can only muster 45% in the corner. If you list with corner combos the ranges would be:



20-55%

and

30-45%



It may look like the top person averages higher, but actually doesn't as the frequency of mid-screen combos will be much greater in actual matches.



Also, I would not account for any combos that start with a JP-Popup, because these combos are video showcases that have no actual use in a match.



Nice thread, I think having a quick look to guide to get an idea of how a character plays will be helpful to the community. I'm writing an in-depth strategy guide, so I should have some info if you need a hand with anything. Let me know


I think I will list with minimum combos (the ones in the general moves list) and then go up to the highest percentage seen without a JP-popup. I will also not list combos against idle opponents or the CPU. that sounds like a fair idea. accounting for all possible combos is neigh-on-impossible and would take up way way too much time. I will be using my capture card to record all my matches so we should set up some time when the game comes out to just pick every character available and go for it. I'll dig up other sources as well and make sure any combos can be verified. it shouldn't take long. I'm hoping to get the combo part of the list complete by may 1st and the character tier positions complete after the first tournament.

TheDarkPassengerPosted: 04/10/2011 06:30 PMStatus ::


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RE: MK2011 High Level Gameplay and character description thread.

I just tested the super guage starting at zero, and it takes over 90% damage to accumulate enough gauge to break a combo. This could change in the final version, but even if so, it appears that no normal combo could possibly go long enough to build a gauge from scratch to a combo breaker.

FlamingTPPosted: 04/10/2011 08:53 PMStatus ::


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RE: MK2011 High Level Gameplay and character description thread.

TheDarkPassenger Wrote:
I just tested the super guage starting at zero, and it takes over 90% damage to accumulate enough gauge to break a combo. This could change in the final version, but even if so, it appears that no normal combo could possibly go long enough to build a gauge from scratch to a combo breaker.


christ, I hope that is changed to 50% or 60%, if not then I'll just list it all.

FlamingTPPosted: 04/13/2011 01:35 AMStatus ::


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RE: MK2011 High Level Gameplay and character description thread.

Changelog 4/12-4/13/2011

Done:
-Calculate demo character combo changes. (based on pro youtube videos from demo)
-Combo system redesigned.
-Attack power, Character Difficulty, and Speed condensed and moved next to character names.
-Goro removed (unplayable boss)
-general list cleanup
-Moved glossary information to bottom of list.

Pending Changes:
--Add Colors

FlamingTPPosted: 04/16/2011 06:33 AMStatus ::


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RE: MK2011 High Level Gameplay and character description thread.

4/16/2011

-Cyber Sub-Zero Xray info added. test

FlamingTPPosted: 04/17/2011 06:10 AMStatus ::


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RE: MK2011 High Level Gameplay and character description thread.

4/17/2011

List changes
-----------------
-Added extra space between power, speed, difficulty, and Description. Added cosmetic font changes to character names.
-Removed most estimated tier positions
-Added some Tier Positions with explanations
-New information gathered from massive amount of video leaks of full version of the game.

Character info changes
-------------------------
-Jax: added information for: speed power x-ray, traits, counter, description.
-Cyrax: X-ray information, speed, power, Tier position, Character Traits, counter, description.
-Ermac Tier Information, X-ray information, traits, speed, Counter, Description
-Sonya: speed, x-ray info, traits, description, Tier placement, counter, power, combo information
-Jade: x-ray information
-Johnny Cage: X-ray damage now 37% instead of 40
-Reptile: Speed, power, Partial X-ray information, Xray damage lowered to 33% from 41%
-Smoke: X-ray info added, power, speed, Traits, Counter
-Sektor: X-ray info, speed, traits, counter
-Scorpion: Turtle Punisher added to traits, X-ray lowered to 30%
-Noob Saibot: Tier Position remains constant, power added, description added.
Nightwolf: Xray information added, speed, power added
Raiden: Speed/power, xray information
Shang Tsung: Character Trait added, xray info added
Baraka: Xray information added
Sub-Zero Xray increased to 33%
Kano: Xray information added, speed, power
Sheeva: xray info added
Liu Kang: xray information, speed added
Kitana: x-ray information, traits added
Kung lao:, speed, power added
Stryker: X-ray info, speed and power added
Kabal: X-ray info, speed, power, traits, counter added

Glossary Changes
-------------------------
-Speed and Power Removed from Glossary due to position change.
-Anti Air added.
-Teleports are now marked as Passive or Damaging teleports.
-Turtle Punisher (quick unblockables) added

Character completion
-----------------------------
-Johnny Cage complete
-Sub-Zero complete
-Mileena Complete
-Scorpion complete
-Sonya complete

Page of 5
    
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