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Gameplay & Matchmaking

Discussing MK Gameplay, Strategies, Tournaments and Online Matchmaking.
Page of 5

StatueofLibertyPosted: 04/18/2011 07:18 PMStatus ::


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RE: MK2011 High Level Gameplay and character description thread.

Oh snap, we got an official strategy guide tier list (shamelessly stolen from SA):

Niddhogg Wrote:
MK9 Tier List taken from the Strategy Guide (PS3 score/Xbox 360 score):

TOP TIER:

Shang Tsung (165/158)
Raiden (161/154)
Kung Lao (159/152)
Nightwolf (158.5/151.5)
Johnny Cage (155/147)
Ermac (154/148)
Smoke (153/147)

MID TIER:

Kabal (145/138)
Liu Kang (142/136)
Kano (140.5/134.5)
Kitana (139/133)
Mileena (136.5/130.5)
Reptile (136/130)
Sindel (136/130)
Scorpion (135.5/129.5)
Sonya (134/128)
Stryker (133.5/127.5)
Sub-Zero (133.5/127.5)

LOW TIER:

Jax (131/125)
Jade (130.5/124.5)
Cyrax (125.5/120.5)
Noob (124.5/119.5)
Sektor (123/117.5)

SHIT TIER:

Baraka (112/106.5)
Kratos (107/---)
Sheeva (105/100)
Quan Chi (103.5/98.5)
Cyber-Sub Zero (101/96)

What they did was this:

-Assume players of equal skill
-Each character fought each character 10 times
-Players aren't scored against themselves
-10 fights X 27 matchups (28 characters-your own character=27 matchups)=Score out of 270
-The average number of wins is the number that listed (i.e. Ermac, on average, won against Baraka 7 times)
-Scores of 4-6 indicate no significant difference in the number of wins (aka no strong advantages/disadvantages in the matchup)
-Score of less than 4 indicates a significant disadvantage for the character in that matchup
-Score of more than 6 indicates a significant advantage for the character in that matchup

Example:
Ermac, against Baraka, has a score of 7. So, when fighting Baraka, Ermac has a significant advantage, and Baraka, against Ermac, has a score of 3 (won 3/10 against Ermac), is at a natural disadvantage when he fights Ermac.

Note: Total of 101-115 have most natural disadvantages, total of 148-165 have most natural advantages.


I'm gonna call partial bullshit on Cyber-Sub and Cyrax's placement.

FlamingTPPosted: 04/18/2011 09:08 PMStatus ::


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RE: MK2011 High Level Gameplay and character description thread.

why is noob only low tier? from all the footage I've seen he's the fastest character in the game.

CoheedPosted: 04/18/2011 11:27 PMStatus ::


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RE: MK2011 High Level Gameplay and character description thread.

Well, this is pure speculation on my part, but.....from the small amounts I've seen of Noob, he seems to be pretty weak up close. And considering the amount of characters with effective anti-zoning tools (Smoke, Kung Lao, Raiden......Kabal and Scorp with meter, probably others I'm missing out on) I foresee a lot of bad matchups for him.

FlamingTPPosted: 04/19/2011 07:50 AMStatus ::


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RE: MK2011 High Level Gameplay and character description thread.

I will add the guide tier versions some time in the next couple of days, right now I'm just enjoying the game.

m0s3pHPosted: 04/19/2011 11:30 AMStatus ::


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RE: MK2011 High Level Gameplay and character description thread.

Strategy guide tiers should be taken with a grain of salt. I recall that nearly all of the ratings and tier placements that existed in the MKA strategy guide were way off. It's really not even prudent to start placing characters into spots. Not now, and not for a while. We all need to let the game develop before we can think about what character goes where.

FlamingTPPosted: 04/20/2011 02:17 AMStatus ::


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RE: MK2011 High Level Gameplay and character description thread.

m0s3pH Wrote:
Strategy guide tiers should be taken with a grain of salt. I recall that nearly all of the ratings and tier placements that existed in the MKA strategy guide were way off. It's really not even prudent to start placing characters into spots. Not now, and not for a while. We all need to let the game develop before we can think about what character goes where.


How are we going to gather the statistics on that?

FlamingTPPosted: 04/20/2011 05:31 AMStatus ::


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RE: MK2011 High Level Gameplay and character description thread.

Ok Lets begin the Tier debate and discussion, this will take several months to get right I assume so lets start the debate and vote shall we:


Voting Table:
Baraka (Top: Middle: Bottom: Worthless:)
Cyber-Sub Zero (Top: Middle: Bottom: Worthless:)
Cyrax (Top: Middle: Bottom: Worthless:)
Ermac (Top: Middle: Bottom: Worthless:)
Jade (Top: Middle: Bottom: Worthless:)
Jax (Top: Middle: Bottom: Worthless:)
Johnny Cage (Top: Middle: Bottom: Worthless:)
Kabal (Top: Middle: Bottom: Worthless:)
Kano (Top: Middle: Bottom: Worthless:)
Kitana (Top: Middle: Bottom: Worthless:)
Kung Lao (Top: Middle: Bottom: Worthless:)
Liu Kang (Top: Middle: Bottom: Worthless:)
Mileena (Top: Middle: Bottom: Worthless:)
Nightwolf (Top: Middle: Bottom: Worthless:)
Noob (Top: Middle: Bottom: Worthless:)
Quan Chi (Top: Middle: Bottom: Worthless:)
Raiden (Top: Middle: Bottom: Worthless:)
Reptile (Top: Middle: Bottom: Worthless:)
Scorpion (Top: Middle: Bottom: Worthless:)
Sektor (Top: Middle: Bottom: Worthless:)
Shang Tsung (Top: Middle: Bottom: Worthless:)
Sheeva (Top: Middle: Bottom: Worthless:)
Sindel (Top: Middle: Bottom: Worthless:)
Smoke (Top: Middle: Bottom: Worthless:)
Sonya (Top: Middle: Bottom: Worthless:)
Stryker (Top: Middle: Bottom: Worthless:)
Sub-Zero (Top: Middle: Bottom: Worthless:)

After we as a group have reached a consensus of who belongs where I'm putting it up on page one. How long do you think it will take though?

SubMan799Posted: 04/21/2011 07:24 PMStatus ::


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RE: MK2011 High Level Gameplay and character description thread.

From what I've played so far it looks like Kung Lao is the best. He's so fast and deadly. He's got two great projectiles, a teleport, a way to maneuver in the air, high damage output, a great X-ray, the best move in the game (Spin) and insane speed.

But its only been a couple of days and I've only played a handful of good players so far. Still, I have yet to lose a match with Kung Lao

FlamingTPPosted: 04/22/2011 12:24 AMStatus ::


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RE: MK2011 High Level Gameplay and character description thread.

SubMan799 Wrote:
From what I've played so far it looks like Kung Lao is the best. He's so fast and deadly. He's got two great projectiles, a teleport, a way to maneuver in the air, high damage output, a great X-ray, the best move in the game (Spin) and insane speed.



But its only been a couple of days and I've only played a handful of good players so far. Still, I have yet to lose a match with Kung Lao


I had a rather laggy match with someone using kung lao, most of the damage was just me getting jump kicked and dive kicked. It's been awhile since I've been really cheaped like that.

ZeroSymbolic7188Posted: 04/22/2011 07:49 PMStatus ::


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RE: MK2011 High Level Gameplay and character description thread.

My casual observations after playing online (Not a tourny gamer, so take it with grain of salt).

Top:
Cyrax -Fast, effective at any range, lots of tools, unique X-ray
Ermac-Effective at any range, quick specials, lots of combo potential.
Johnny Cage- I still think Johnny needs some nerfing, he can combo endlessly and effortlessly. To many moves look the same, and I swear his recovery time is next to nothing.
Kung Lao - The spin comes out of nowhere and can trap, the hat can go in multiple directions, and he can teleport with variations. LOTS OF TOOLS
Reptile - Dirt easy combos, fast, multiple projectiles, and a fast X Ray.
Scorpion - He has a tool for everything, and some very safe combos.
Sektor - Missles from multiple directs, nice combo potential, and a teleport punch that seems to have insane priority.
Sheeva -GROUND STOMP, OMFG THE GROUND STOMP!
Smoke - A lot like scorpion, again has a way to deal with about anything, unique teleports, arguably the best tele-punch, fast, and a unique and effective projectile.
Stryker - All kinds of projectile options, the gun hits twice and is very fast and difficult to aviod. The rolling toss is also nasty.



Middle:
Jax - I think Jax has all kinds of tools, but requires a very diferent approach to use effectively. So I think he is a Top tier character with a very dificult learning curve.
Kabal - Lots of cool moves, and two projectiles, however falls short of top tier.
Kitana - The aerial punch has escape properties and her X ray is a projectile, she also has an awesome poking game.
Mileena - Can be deadly but requires some finesse.
Nightwolf - He almost top tier, but he needs one of the following: A quicker projectile, a teleport, or a nice juggle combo.
Noob - Has the appearance of being top tier, but is actually just really annoying. Takes patience, but he can be dealt with.
Sonya - I personally cant use her very well at all, but too many people online have showed me her wrath for me to put her in the bottom tiers.
Sub-Zero - Sub is good, but you have to understand zoning, and be very patient with him. Very solid, but as always he is the thinking mans character.

Bottom:
Jade - She has an OK move set, but I have yet to see anyone use her in any effective manner.
Raiden - There is a consensus that Raiden sucks. His teleport is the only thing that keeps him out Worthlessness.
Shang Tsung - Yes he has juggle potential, and the ability to heal, however his moves are really hard to use and he doesnt have much going on until he uses a soul steal.

Worthless:
Baraka - Several moves attack in the same way and has limited range. Not versatile enough.
Kano - Difficult to play as and has very punishable moves.
Sindel - To many moves that do the same thing, not enough versatility.


Characters I havent seen or used enough to have an opinion:
Liu Kang
Quan Chi


There ya go, Zero's impressions thus far.



m0s3pHPosted: 04/23/2011 09:39 PMStatus ::


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RE: MK2011 High Level Gameplay and character description thread.

OK, let me start by saying that I think we can all agree straightaway that Baraka belongs in the garbage tier. Pitiful damage output, not very safe or fast, no teleport, slow projectile, and he's completely ineffective outside of sweep distance. I also prefer the S-A-B-C-D-F (or God-High-Upper Mid-Mid-Lower Mid-Garbage) notation of tiers, but that's up to the masses to decide.

After playing extensively with Scorpion in Practice mode, I would say he's A tier. He has very damaging juggles that are somewhat easy to do, he doesn't really have any holes when it comes to lows, mix-ups, or specials, and simply having an X-Ray in hand with him allows you to dictate what your opponent does - one mistake and they eat it. I think the only thing that Scorpion truly lacks is a fast launcher. B+BP is too slow, needs help from the spear, which cuts damage down. All that said, Scorpion isn't amazingly dominant in any area, either. His priority is good, but not the best, and all of his specials except the takedown are pretty unsafe on block, even more so against teleporting characters. His specials are, however, useful, and Scorpion benefits a ton from enhanced specials as well. Scorpion can punish with the best of them.

m0s3pHPosted: 04/23/2011 11:27 PMStatus ::


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RE: MK2011 High Level Gameplay and character description thread.

I've compiled an overall Scorpion strategy here.

Credit to Coheed and BloodFang for finding some of the combos that I've listed in the above link.

FlamingTPPosted: 04/24/2011 01:00 AMStatus ::


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RE: MK2011 High Level Gameplay and character description thread.

Since PSN remains down, I will finish the list in the next couple of days, Sans tier positions of course.

m0s3pHPosted: 04/24/2011 06:31 PMStatus ::


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RE: MK2011 High Level Gameplay and character description thread.

Maybe it's just me, but I can't pull high damage with Kitana. This is the best combo I've gotten so far:

JPS, FP, FP, cFan Lift, JK, cFan Throw, JK, cFan Throw. (7 hits, 20%)

The 'c' means cancel, in case anyone is wondering.

SubMan799Posted: 04/26/2011 06:14 PMStatus ::


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RE: MK2011 High Level Gameplay and character description thread.

Yeah Kitana's damage is pretty bad.

Anyways, a week with the game and I'm convinced that Kung Lao is the absolute best character in the game bar none. I am also convinced that Baraka is the worst character in the game. So here's my current tier list

S:
Kung Lao

A:
Everyone else

F:
Baraka

NephritePosted: 04/27/2011 09:06 AMStatus ::


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RE: MK2011 High Level Gameplay and character description thread.

Here's a high damage Kitana combo that doesn't use any meter:

Kitana 44% damage combo


I've actually played quite a bit with Kitana, there's a bunch of combos that do 30-37% damage and don't use any meter at all.



Here are some other massive damage Kitana combos:

Kitana combos (massive damage)

I can't pull off that JP after the f+BP, FP combo starter though


My best Kitana combo (no meter used) is 14 hits, 42% damage (15 hits, 45% damage when you start it off with a diagonal JP).

The only issue I have with her are the inputs for her projectile (d, f, FP) and square wave boost (d, b, FP) attacks. If the opponent teleports while I'm doing the inputs for one of those moves, the cpu will sometimes register the other move (not the one that I went for).


BloodfangPosted: 04/28/2011 02:44 PMStatus ::


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RE: MK2011 High Level Gameplay and character description thread.

Well first off I absolutely need a transcript of the actual button presses for those badass Kitana combos so I can try those! lol. Hard to tell on the vids what they are pressing and what kind of timing they are using and I love Kitana so... yeah.. need better combos. I can only do like 32?% I think, 41% with X-ray. So she's my second main so next to research and get better with now that I've finally achieved easy 40-50%+ damage with my first main Scorpion.

m0s3pH Wrote:
I've compiled an overall Scorpion strategy here.



Credit to Coheed and BloodFang for finding some of the combos that I've listed in the above link.


Thank you so much for the credit, it is an honor. lol. Actually I should mention that now with the tweaks made to the real game (non-demo) the 49% double JK-teleport into JK-airthrow that you got from me is now impossible so should probably be removed from a good strategy for that reason.

However, I will provide my new B&B's with Scorpion and I will use the same format as you did for your convenience.

Notes on "Combo Starter":
After thorough experimentation I have come to the conclusion that with Scorpion either JPS followed quickly by any of the following: "FP, FP", "BP, FP", or "F+BP, FP" are all viable "combo starters" that deal the same damage and are just as effective so it's really a matter of personal preference so you may substitute the starter for whichever combo you find easiest to use or the best looking for maximum show off potential (personally I like the F+BP, FP for showing off but for serious play I use the BP, FP one as it is the easiest for me to make sure I do the double hit before the spear for max damage potential). Because of this I will list it simply as "Combo Starter". Again you may read "Combo Starter" as "JPS, FP, FP", "JPS, BP, FP", or "JPS, F+BP, FP" interchangeably.

I should also mention that you can still do the below combos just off the spear, or minus the JPS, or even minus one of the hits from the 2 hits, but these will lower the damage output slightly however still dealing a large chunk but giving you tons of versatility to these combos as you can pull them out of anywhere as a result. I will give the ranges for damage/hits if I can remember them or I will make an update later if people wish.

The below can be done Mid-Screen and as always from me requires no expert set up or special conditions.

Main Combo (No X-ray, actually No super meter at all as I save mine for X-ray when playing as Scorpion. I don't think he needs his ES moves in combos with 42-43% without it, lol.):

"Combo Starter", cSpear, NJP, (dash), B+BP, JK, Teleport, JK, Airthrow.
((11 hits, 42% damage. May alternately substitute a second Teleport for the Airthrow for trickier timing but it will raise max damage from 42% to 43% and count as a 10 hit. I prefer the Airthrow as it looks cooler and 1% isn't a big loss to me))

X-ray Combo:

"Combo Starter", cSpear, NJP, (dash), B+BP, JK, Teleport, (dash), BP, cX-ray.
((12 hits? (I think but I am unsure at the moment, lol), 52% damage definite though. The final dash, BP into X-ray requires some tough timing though. At least by my standards, lol)).

Be careful not to accidentally do the sword move (F+BP) when trying to do the dash, BP into the X-ray, lol. I mess this up quite often.

I hope everyone enjoys these combos, lol. I hope even more that they help to elevate Scorpion on the tier list, LOL. As always any and all feedback on my combos, etc. is most appreciated!

BTW, I'm proud of myself as I beat Story Mode on Medium (mostly because I did not read the options well enough to know I could have lowered the diff), I beat the challenge tower without having to buy my way past anything. Though I did lose a lot especially on End Game. Apparently from what I hear most people find are having alot of trouble with Medium Story (well to be honest I did too, lol, I was cursing the whole time when I was Raiden for his tougher battles, sorry trying not to spoil anything just in case you know) and understandably having issues beating the challenge tower so since I beat them all within a few days of getting it (and I got it midnight it came out) I guess I'm not quite as sucktastic as I thought I was. Would still get stomped online though. Take care everyone!

-"The Meaning of Life is all in the moment. At this moment, this is my life, so I must make this my meaning." ~Bloodfang~
TheDarkPassengerPosted: 04/28/2011 11:49 PMStatus ::


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RE: MK2011 High Level Gameplay and character description thread.

I cannot comment on any of the combos listed, however, playing a lot of fighting games and being on message boards, I know that a lot of these high damage combos are not easily pulled off in matches. They either have close to impossible timing, or have awkward startups (not saying that any of the ones listed are like this, but that has been my experience). Combos, damage, etc. that have a pratical use in matches, and can also be perfected, usually end up being the combos seen in high level play--not the one in a million video highlight.

So far, from my experience, and what I gather from other boards, below are some of the high tier characters:

Smoke
Ermac
Kung Lao

Also, I've heard some weird things about Raiden, but I'm not sure if they are legit, and whether they will be patched.

Another one that I think will rise to the top with time is Liu Kang. Man, oh man, he has some nice High, Mid, Low mixups. Also, you can combo into and out of his X-Ray....damage can be consistently in the 30s easily with several different openers. That with a parry, and someone who is extremely skilled = ridiculous.

I think that everyone is in agreement that Smoke is the best character in the game. I have a feeling that some other characters will be rising to the top with time. More time passing = more accurate tier list.

SubMan799Posted: 04/28/2011 11:59 PMStatus ::


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RE: MK2011 High Level Gameplay and character description thread.

I'm not sure how practical these combos are. From my experience online I was able to get most of them off easy. I'm going to start heading to local tournaments to see if I can land some of these 40% combos.

Also imo Smoke is not the best. Personally, I'd say the top three are Kung Lao, Smoke and Ermac. TomBrady says the top tier are:

1. Sub-Zero
2. Raiden
3. Johnny Cage/Nightwolf
4. Johnny Cage/Nightwolf
5. Cyrax

This guy is basically the most knowledgeable MK9 player on the planet so I'll take his word that these are the five characters to watch out for. Surprised he doesn't think highly of Kung Lao.

Smoke is still awesome though. From the WNF stream it looked like Bone was getting his advanced Smoke combos in just fine.

TheDarkPassengerPosted: 04/29/2011 12:12 AMStatus ::


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RE: MK2011 High Level Gameplay and character description thread.

SubMan799 Wrote:
I'm not sure how practical these combos are. From my experience online I was able to get most of them off easy. I'm going to start heading to local tournaments to see if I can land some of these 40% combos.



Also imo Smoke is not the best. Personally, I'd say the top three are Kung Lao, Smoke and Ermac. TomBrady says the top tier are:



1. Sub-Zero

2. Raiden

3. Johnny Cage/Nightwolf

4. Johnny Cage/Nightwolf

5. Cyrax



This guy is basically the most knowledgeable MK9 player on the planet so I'll take his word that these are the five characters to watch out for. Surprised he doesn't think highly of Kung Lao.



Smoke is still awesome though. From the WNF stream it looked like Bone was getting his advanced Smoke combos in just fine.


Interesting. I can definitely see Sub-Zero (that's who I main at the moment), but Cyrax? Nightwolf is another that I could see being really good, but I think Cage is mid tier. I mean he has speed, but his combo setups are wierd, and difficult to pull off, only to get barely in the 30s without a wall. Also, he lacks a low game. He does have some nice mids, but I think he's a bit overrated. I guess time will tell for sure! I am very surprised not to see Kung Lao, Smoke, or Ermac in his top tier...

SubMan799Posted: 04/29/2011 12:28 AMStatus ::


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RE: MK2011 High Level Gameplay and character description thread.

Well the reason Cyrax is so high is because of his Bomb Trap. Basically, Cyrax has a command grab that keeps the opponent stuck in blockstun long enough for you to launch a bomb that they cannot avoid. If this is patched (which I'm not sure it really has to be) then he will definitely drop.

FlamingTPPosted: 04/29/2011 12:47 AMStatus ::


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RE: MK2011 High Level Gameplay and character description thread.

keep up the discussion folks, next update to the list is tomorrow night.

DeathologyPosted: 04/29/2011 02:51 AMStatus ::


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RE: MK2011 High Level Gameplay and character description thread.

Well, I certainly hope they don't remove Cyrax's bomb trap, his bomb trap and his safe jump in loop are what make his character interesting.

Btw: Human Cyrax does not have the bomb trap because his projectiles have more start up frames, however he does have a safe teleport. I don't really think having a safe teleport is worth loosing the bomb trap though. So I wouldn't blame you if you considered them as having separate tiers, FlamingTP.

StatueofLibertyPosted: 04/29/2011 12:58 PMStatus ::


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RE: MK2011 High Level Gameplay and character description thread.

SubMan799 Wrote:
Well the reason Cyrax is so high is because of his Bomb Trap. Basically, Cyrax has a command grab that keeps the opponent stuck in blockstun long enough for you to launch a bomb that they cannot avoid. If this is patched (which I'm not sure it really has to be) then he will definitely drop.


My God, it only gets worse better!

ZeroSymbolic7188Posted: 04/29/2011 04:48 PMStatus ::


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RE: MK2011 High Level Gameplay and character description thread.

NIGHTWOLF WINS!

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