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3D Kombat Klassics

Discussing the 3D MK Klassics: Everything from MK4 to Armageddon.
Page of 18

VersatilePosted: 12/13/2004 03:29 PMStatus ::


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~*~The Mortal Kombat: Deception Tier List Version 2.0~*~

Here I present the second iteration(and hopefully the final iteration) of the Mortal Kombat: Deception tier list. I don't think there's a need to give a long explanation as to what's up with this, for if you don't know by now then just wait for the next MK to get in on it. All credit goes to Konqrr for this list, and on his behalf I would like to thank all the MK players who've put time and dedication into disecting this fighter(won't list names..too many, but you ALL know who you are).
PS2/X-BOX:
01. Bo' Rai Cho
02. Noob-Smoke
03. Dairou
04. Kobra
05. Scorpion
06. Darrius
07. Liu Kang
08. Shujinko
09. Mileena
10. Raiden
11. Jade
12. Baraka
13. Tanya
14. Kabal
15. Ashrah
16. Hotaru
17. Nightwolf
18. Ermac
19. Kenshi
20. Sindel
21. Li Mei
22. Havik
23. Sub-Zero
24. Kira

GAMECUBE:
01. Bo' Rai Cho
02. Noob-Smoke
03. Kobra
04. Scorpion
05. Darrius
06. Liu Kang
07. Mileena
08. Raiden
09. Jade
10. Shujinko
11. Baraka
12. Tanya
13. Kabal
14. Dairou
15. Ashrah
16. Hotaru
17. Goro
18. Nightwolf
19. Ermac
20. Kenshi
21. Shao Kahn
22. Sindel
23. Li Mei
24. Havik
25. Sub-Zero
26. Kira

tgrantPosted: 12/13/2004 03:31 PMStatus ::


Rank ::
Visits::61660
Nationality::England
RE: ~*~The Mortal Kombat: Deception Tier List~*~

Awesome! It's good to see this up! Great work to all who helped compile it.

Project MKK: Coming soon...

Currently working on: MKD & MKA - The One Ring Theory
KeithPosted: 12/13/2004 03:39 PMStatus ::


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Visits::15233
Nationality::Ireland
RE: ~*~The Mortal Kombat: Deception Tier List~*~

Oh I don't think MKDa had any impossible battles....for me but definitley for any one who fought me, especially when I fought as Sonya. I haven't played MKd yet but seeing Mileena and Sindel the characters I was looking forward to being low tier is really worrying. But then again, if MKd is anything like MKDA I should be alright.

The_TruthPosted: 12/13/2004 03:46 PMStatus ::


Rank ::
Visits::15767
Nationality::United States
RE: ~*~The Mortal Kombat: Deception Tier List~*~

Good job, I know how long and hard it is to come up with a solid tier list. Though I pretty much hate Deception I'll give each and everyone of you that took the time to master it a lot of props. Excellent work.

 photo beastmode copy_zpsp7yqozmh.jpg
m2davePosted: 12/13/2004 04:02 PMStatus ::


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Visits::10033
Nationality::Cuba
RE: ~*~The Mortal Kombat: Deception Tier List~*~

Excellent,Versatile.

Another thing you should have mentioned (if you haven't already done so) is that the tier list is based upon the exlusion of corner traps,corner infinite combos,and corner combos.These aforementioned factors would put some characters sigificantly higher (Noob-Smoke and Tanya for example) if you included them.

the_shirt_ninjaPosted: 12/13/2004 04:18 PMStatus ::


Rank ::
Visits::8528
Nationality::Germany
RE: ~*~The Mortal Kombat: Deception Tier List~*~

What really suprises me is Havik's ranking. I think he's awesome! What makes him so much worse than almost everyone else?

Also, Kabal should be at least bottom mid IMO.

I'm fine with the rest.

CYDViciousPosted: 12/13/2004 07:56 PMStatus ::


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Visits::1676
Nationality::United States
RE: ~*~The Mortal Kombat: Deception Tier List~*~

Explanation please of why Baraka and Darrius are better than Jade?

~CYD

-
StarwinderbetaPosted: 12/13/2004 08:34 PMStatus ::


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Visits::5761
Nationality::United States
RE: ~*~The Mortal Kombat: Deception Tier List~*~

Versatile Wrote:
...and that this game is a lot more balanced than MKDA.




Sub-ZeroMastaPosted: 12/13/2004 08:34 PMStatus ::


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Visits::12990
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RE: ~*~The Mortal Kombat: Deception Tier List~*~

Great thread Vers. Great job all of you for putting this together. Glad to see this finally up for MK: D. Looks just about how I would have rated everyone at. Some characters in the Mid Tier could have went higher or lower I think but other than that it looks on point to me.

As for CYD asking about why Baraka and Darrius being ranked slightly higher than Jade is, I would say it is because she isn't as safe as Baraka and Darrius are. All 3 are fast and for the most part safe, but there are lots of moves that leaves Jade unsafe and more open than those two.

TOKombatantPosted: 12/14/2004 01:08 AMStatus ::


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Visits::269
Nationality::Canada
RE: ~*~The Mortal Kombat: Deception Tier List~*~

Very cool idea and I'm sure there's alot of stats that back up this list. I agree with some of it but I must admit, I'm surprised at most of it.

Your top tier is ok... I can let Kobra slide but Dairou is in there?? And above Scorpion, none the less.

Sub-Zero should be up there in place of Dairou in my opinion.

I think all the lower tier fighters should be upper mid based on my playing experience.

Lower Tier... I'd say Ashrah, Hotaru, Kenshi, Darrius & Dairou.

I'd get into more details about why but I must sleep! lol! But I'll admit, from a different fighter perspective, this list is pretty well put together. I guess I'm just a picky fighter, hehe ; )

"What's the worst that could happen?"

(cue falling piano)

CheckPosted: 12/14/2004 03:27 AMStatus ::


Rank ::
Visits::10096
Nationality::Italy
RE: ~*~The Mortal Kombat: Deception Tier List~*~

i agree about sub zero being higher, without question.

m2davePosted: 12/14/2004 03:50 AMStatus ::


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Visits::10033
Nationality::Cuba
RE: ~*~The Mortal Kombat: Deception Tier List~*~

Lower Tier... I'd say Ashrah, Hotaru, Kenshi, Darrius & Dairou.

Ashrah - she has some good mix ups in her weapon stance.Not too good,but not too bad either.She is exactly where she belongs.

Hotaru - having no mids in his weapon stance hurts him especially since he has some tools in that stance to work with.But since he has no mids, his weapon stance is rather useless.He's got some stuff in his first and second stance,both of which are kind of risky since his mids are kind of unsafe and don't give him any great potential as far as damage is concerned.Low tier?Hard to tell.

Kenshi - I've played many Kenshi users and surprisingly they all play the same.They go into his weapon stance and play keep away the whole match.Once you attempt to come close Kenshi players utilize the tele-combo to prevent you from coming too close.He also has mids in his weapon stance which aren't too great.Not a low-tier,but definitely not better than a low mid tier.Playing like this can get risky.

Darrius - come on,man.This guy is sick.He gets 50% of damage after a throw and has his infamous,mid-hitting 3 in his weapon stance.Do d,f+3 after 3,and they can't tech-roll or escape the combo.Get close and it's throw/3 mix ups time.

Dairou - I agree that he is weak up close,but his keep away game is broken.TombStone is unblockable and he can do 1,1,f+3 after it in his weapon stance for like 33% of damage (sometimes it's 38% though ).His projectile is impossible to jump over and his teleport gives him enough time to back-dash and start the annoying keep away mix ups yet again.Up close,3 and b+2 (notation?) both hit mid in his weapon stance.b+2 juggles but it's very unsafe;3 is safer and is suitable for another 3 or throw mix up.By the way,his throw actually sucks since you cannot move at all once you've done it,but it still knocks the opponent far away so yet again -- keep away.He's top-tier.

MrSchpfmutPosted: 12/14/2004 10:17 AMStatus ::


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Nationality::Italy
RE: ~*~The Mortal Kombat: Deception Tier List~*~

Excellent! Glad to see this come up so quickly Verse.

m2dave Wrote:
...the tier list is based upon the exlusion of corner traps,corner infinite combos,and corner combos.


Yet inescapable shit like Bo's combo is accounted for? I'm sure that's the one thing that puts him over the top on this list. I think if a tier list is going to account for anybroken shit...All things broken about this game should be included.

I'll give Bo that he is a beast, but all his shit is easy to get around by playing a simple distance game! And that distance game is part of both Dairou's and Kobra's strengths.

I'm up for discussing this more, but I think Bo maybe could go at #3... Well, that is unless I'm missing some other uber demolishing quality of his. :/




Other than that, I really like this list. And, besides me never playing Liu or Jinko... This freakishly reflects how often I play most caracters.

CYDViciousPosted: 12/14/2004 11:29 AMStatus ::


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Visits::1676
Nationality::United States
RE: ~*~The Mortal Kombat: Deception Tier List~*~

Sub-ZeroMasta Wrote:

As for CYD asking about why Baraka and Darrius being ranked slightly higher than Jade is, I would say it is because she isn't as safe as Baraka and Darrius are. All 3 are fast and for the most part safe, but there are lots of moves that leaves Jade unsafe and more open than those two.


Her projectile shield should be a huge factor that makes up the fact she is limited to her safe and/or 50/50 game, in the fact that it eludes the harm of IceClone, Smoke Cloud alone, not to meantion all those low fireballs from Liu, Kobra, and the pop up from Hotaru... It provides a huge advantage by completely eliminating the usefulness of those projectiles.

-
mastermalonePosted: 12/14/2004 02:57 PMStatus ::


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Visits::3148
Nationality::United States
RE: ~*~The Mortal Kombat: Deception Tier List~*~

Very nice work guys, but I will continue to rip opponents apart with my low tier Mileena. I am a bit suprised that she is considered to be low tier. She is fast as hell in her second stance and she has a high priority d+1 that anchors opponents into place seting them up for a standing 4,1 to start a pop-up which leads to 31%. Here is the entire combo. it involves a manual style change:

4,1, juggle with 4, (change style quickly) then 1,1 b+1

This is the most damaging combo that I have found but its fairly easy to do and really easy to catch playes with it since standing 4 is a mid. Poking them with d+1 forces them to duck and since it has a fast recovery you can quickly do the standing 4. I shake breakers out of players like a bully taking their lunch money with that tactic. Since she is now considered low tier I will pride myself even more with each victory, sort of like winning with Dan in Streetfighter.

Peace


-XB Live gamertag: I AM YOURDEATH -(PS2 Tag: MASTRMAL)
VersatilePosted: 12/14/2004 03:39 PMStatus ::


Rank ::
Visits::8787
Nationality::Barbados
RE: ~*~The Mortal Kombat: Deception Tier List~*~

mastermalone Wrote:
Very nice work guys, but I will continue to rip opponents apart with my low tier Mileena. I am a bit suprised that she is considered to be low tier. She is fast as hell in her second stance and she has a high priority d+1 that anchors opponents into place seting them up for a standing 4,1 to start a pop-up which leads to 31%. Here is the entire combo. it involves a manual style change:



4,1, juggle with 4, (change style quickly) then 1,1 b+1



This is the most damaging combo that I have found but its fairly easy to do and really easy to catch playes with it since standing 4 is a mid. Poking them with d+1 forces them to duck and since it has a fast recovery you can quickly do the standing 4. I shake breakers out of players like a bully taking their lunch money with that tactic. Since she is now considered low tier I will pride myself even more with each victory, sort of like winning with Dan in Streetfighter.



Peace





That's the kind of attitude I like to see dude. Mileena is fun as hell.

Anyway, Jade is great, but the fact that her best stance(the second one) is COMPLETELY UNSAFE hurts her bad. She NEEDS 2nd stance: b+1 in her game, and since on block it's like -200 thousand, she's going to get owned really,really bad. You have to continuously whore out her d+3/3 to set the b+1, and not to mention the fact that 3 on block is unsafe as well. Baraka can deal almost as much damage, and do it in a safe manner. He has problems getting in, but you just need to be patient. Once blades: b+4 hits they are in some trouble. Darrius is better because he deals just as much damage as jade, has a more powerful 50/50 game and a much better throw.

I'm not looking to diss anybody, so i'll just say anyone who thinks Ashrah,Darrius,Dariou and whoever else that guy said is low tier is really looking at this game with a weird perspective.

Being a HARDCORE Sub-Zero player and him being my best character I will say that he deserves his spot. Sub is good. He can compete, and can beat any character in the game(including Bo), but he's really just a huge gimmick. He doesn't have one thing in particular he can depend on. The clone can predicted and punished, and is useless when they are in your face. Kori: b+2 must be set up perfectly or you're going to get raped. Kori: d+3 and b+4 both can be punished, especially b+4. His throw is decent at best and can be ducked and punished. The cold shoulder does minimal damage and can be stepped and punished on block. Everything good about Sub has an obvious weakpoint. The key to being good with him is using everything he has that's good at the right times and just being a smart player. If you look at the list, it's hard to argue that anyone above Sub doesn't deseve their spot. In fact, I think saying Sub-Zero is top tier is simply ludicrous.

Havik just doesn't have anything that's as devasting as those above him.


Sub-Zero_7thPosted: 12/14/2004 06:04 PMStatus ::


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Visits::19142
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RE: ~*~The Mortal Kombat: Deception Tier List~*~

Interesting thread. Although I don't exactly agree with all of the placements, I do understand why some of the characters have been placed where they are.

Like someone said in a thread about the Ice Clone/Ice Shaker thing (I believe it was mindripper), the Ice Clone is really more of a trick to get the opponents to move so that they can't block when moving and are open to attack. One thing I noticed when playing as Sub-Zero in this game is that you can do the Freeze Ball when the Ice Clone is still there. If I'm not mistaken, it wasn't like this in past MK games. Sure, the Freeze Ball can easily be sidestepped, even blocked, but it's still kind of good nonetheless. I guess what the real trick is is using Kori Blade, but it's not really that safe so like you said Versatile, Sub-Zero players have to be real smart when using him. I personally would place Sub-Zero in the mid/top tier. I wish they hadn't watered down his Dragon style....

Anyway, I'm surprised to see Scorpion in top tier. I understood well enough how and why Scorpion was top tier in MK: DA, but to me, in MK: Deception, Scorpion is more of a mid tier. His Hapkido style is good though I wished they would've kept the Open Palm move (D + 2). But overall, no biggie there. Moi Fah is kind of ok, imo. I pretty much only use it when facing Onaga. I find it easier to learn and master than Hapkido, but overall, I feel that aside from being good against Onaga, it's not that useful....I could be wrong about that. Maybe there's something that I'm overlooking with Moi Fah. If so, let me know. Mugai Ryu seemed ok to me. I don't really find it to be that useful either. His special moves are kind of good with the Summon Hellfire being unblockable and the Flip Kick being an anti-air move. The Teleport Attack can be good, but obviously, if blocked, then the results are not going to be pretty....heh...The Spear seems to have the lag time problem like it had in MK: DA. Again, I might be overlooking something. But hey, I'm just stating how I feel now. I'm still going to try out each of the characters some more when I get the chance to...

I think I understand why Bo' Rai Cho would be top tier. As much as I hate Kobra, I think I see why he would also be top tier. I wasn't too surprised to see Noob-Smoke in the top tier. To me, Smoke is the better of the two because of things such as his Stinky Cloud in which you probably already know that...lol... Ok....moving on....

About Havik, I see what you mean. When it comes to his styles, they don't really seem to have too much of an impact. If Snake had certain stun properties other than a couple of the moves in that style...(stuff like temporarily weakening the opponent in terms of the amount of damage he/she does to Havik, etc.) then Snake would be much better. Tang Soo Do still needs the damn Axe Kick and Hook Kick!!! The Backfist and Spinning Backfist would also be great to see....but I'm more concerned about the kicks...namely because Tang Soo Do is dervied from styles like Tae Kyon....but anyway...uh...Tang Soo Do is ok. Morning Star well...it's not that bad, but it's not that great either. His specials are cool though I think in order to pull off those moves in which he gets his health back, you'd have to be far away from the opponent or something like that....So overall, I understand why Havik is in low tier. Cool character, but...he's not that useful gameplay wise...

Anyway, I'm going to do what I do best (plan for world domination and all that good stuff) so uh....I'll come back here later....

CYDViciousPosted: 12/14/2004 09:14 PMStatus ::


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Visits::1676
Nationality::United States
RE: ~*~The Mortal Kombat: Deception Tier List~*~

I think this Tier list is based heavily on 50/50 attacks that are safe etc...
Basically if a character has a safe low and safe mid pop up, they are top tier.

~CYD

-
KonqrrPosted: 12/14/2004 10:04 PMStatus ::


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RE: ~*~The Mortal Kombat: Deception Tier List~*~

Very, very nice list...great job Versatile and ReptileStyle.

MKII is a Glorified RPG...Turn Based Chip Damage!
m2davePosted: 12/14/2004 11:21 PMStatus ::


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Nationality::Cuba
RE: ~*~The Mortal Kombat: Deception Tier List~*~

Anyway, I'm surprised to see Scorpion in top tier. I understood well enough how and why Scorpion was top tier in MK: DA, but to me, in MK: Deception, Scorpion is more of a mid tier. His Hapkido style is good though I wished they would've kept the Open Palm move (D + 2). But overall, no biggie there. Moi Fah is kind of ok, imo. I pretty much only use it when facing Onaga. I find it easier to learn and master than Hapkido, but overall, I feel that aside from being good against Onaga, it's not that useful....I could be wrong about that. Maybe there's something that I'm overlooking with Moi Fah. If so, let me know. Mugai Ryu seemed ok to me. I don't really find it to be that useful either. His special moves are kind of good with the Summon Hellfire being unblockable and the Flip Kick being an anti-air move. The Teleport Attack can be good, but obviously, if blocked, then the results are not going to be pretty....heh...The Spear seems to have the lag time problem like it had in MK: DA. Again, I might be overlooking something. But hey, I'm just stating how I feel now. I'm still going to try out each of the characters some more when I get the chance to...

You've actually failed to mention his best stance -- his weapon stance.Scorpion is definitely my favorite in MK:D because he's not too broken,but he doesn't suck either.In his weapon stance,he has f+1 which hits mid and juggles,has a large hit box,and is fairly safe compared to other mid moves.For example,BRC usually won't get a free f+3 after a blocked f+1 and that's very important.d+1 is a low,which kind of gives him advantage and evades many attacks.You can dash to them and start a Throw/f+1 mix up or even do another d+1.As f+1,d+1 is pretty safe.As far as his 50/50 mix ups are concerned,when f+1 hits do Spear,and then do Hellfire;sidestep,and then either do another Hellfire,Throw,f+1 or even d+1.This all isn't combo-breakable,and if they attempt to jump or dash after a Hellfire,f+1 will juggle again creating the same annoying mix up.His throw is breakable,but if it's not broken,dash in and start a f+1/Throw/d+1 mix up.

I just love Scorp.Many people usually cry because they can't move after the Hellfire....But in any case,I can beat above average BRC players with Scorp because he has the tools when used correctly.

Jade-OWNPosted: 12/15/2004 09:52 AMStatus ::


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RE: ~*~The Mortal Kombat: Deception Tier List~*~

I have been experiementing with Kira for a week and I think she is a pretty neat character. Her sweep move in the second stance is fast and can be 50/50 with f+3 for a 37% juggle. Her pink dust is also a useful move to keep your apponent away. WOnder why she is in the last spot.

by Jade-Own.....
_NE0_Posted: 12/15/2004 10:28 AMStatus ::


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RE: ~*~The Mortal Kombat: Deception Tier List~*~

that list is WAY off in some places...

kobra is NOT top 3, mileena is NOT low tier, NW is higher then where u have him listed, and a few other things i dont feel like posting right now.


as for brc vs dairou....dairou can win but it bepends on how he uses the teleport. the teleport is the key to dairou. all his mixups become almost unbeatable if u use the teleport right. overall i'd say that match is even. whats funny is(back when i played) when i created the brc stuff and people started to copy it i'd use dairou for brc and if they picked dairou i'd use brc.


kobra vs brc....that match is like a "close but no cigar" fight for kobra. brc wins flat out but kobra can make SOME games VERY close. alas, close is about all he will as brc will win the vast majority of games in that fight.





PS: read my sig and know the truth. mkd is trash.....start playing doa3.

Tom Brady MKL
_NE0_Posted: 12/15/2004 10:37 AMStatus ::


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RE: ~*~The Mortal Kombat: Deception Tier List~*~

m2dave Wrote:
Excellent,Versatile.



Another thing you should have mentioned (if you haven't already done so) is that the tier list is based upon the exlusion of corner traps,corner infinite combos,and corner combos.These aforementioned factors would put some characters sigificantly higher (Noob-Smoke and Tanya for example) if you included them.




noob needs to be #3 on the list. i believe the list was made with the traps and infinites involved however noob is still no higher the #3 and thats WITH the traps and infinites.

Tom Brady MKL
m2davePosted: 12/15/2004 11:02 AMStatus ::


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Visits::10033
Nationality::Cuba
RE: ~*~The Mortal Kombat: Deception Tier List~*~

noob needs to be #3 on the list. i believe the list was made with the traps and infinites involved however noob is still no higher the #3 and thats WITH the traps and infinites.

Alirght.I agree that N/S needs to be higher,but I think with the infinite combo he might even have the potential to be No. 2.It's not hard at all getting close to corners with Noob and Smoke.With Noob's throw,you cover a lot of distance and get a free inescapable f,f+3.With Smoke,b+1 after throw covers a lot of distance as well and sets you up for the same possible 50/50 mix up.Not to mention...

Throw, f,f+4, d,b+2, d+1, b+1
u+4, d,b+2, walk up and b+1

....are both inescapable and set you up for the same thing.However,N/S's weakness is that his mids aren't all that safe.BRC gets f+3 after all of them I think.

Anyway,any other close matches Vs. BRC?

PS:No DoA.Just....Tekken 5!11111!!1

ulsebillyloPosted: 12/15/2004 01:03 PMStatus ::


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RE: ~*~The Mortal Kombat: Deception Tier List~*~

i have to say good work fellows but, darrius owns scorpion and ns and prbly 70/30 kobra and 50/50 with dariou and BRC and Ermac is prbly and if not next to or being better then 5 or 6 where are u guys playing at?

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