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2D Kombat Klassics

Discussing the 2D MK Klassics: Everything from the Original to Rereleases.
Page of 28

KhardynylPosted: 10/20/2003 10:09 PMStatus ::


Rank ::
Visits::807
Nationality::United Kingdom
RE: UMK3 Kombo Video Service Pack 1 Soon...

Thanks for pointing out those flaws in the Capcom games. THANKS FOR THAT, MAKING ME LOOK LIKE AN IDIOT! =D

I tried those infinite dial-a-combo into uppercut followed by a jump punch to start the combo again and it just doesn't work. I have tried it endlessly, using the same characters as in the videos.

The versions I tested it on were the 2 versions on MAME. They are 1.1 and 1.2. Were those combo videos done using MAME of some other version of UMK3. Or were those particular combos done using MKT? I noticed 2 of them were MKT, but the others I couldn't tell what game they were from.

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MK2KungBrokenPosted: 10/21/2003 03:28 AMStatus ::


Rank ::
Visits::6269
Nationality::United States
RE: UMK3 Kombo Video Service Pack 1 Soon...

The only characters used from MKT were the ones who were not in UMK3. Every character who was in UMK3, had their combos done on UMK3 ver 1.2. The timing on the relaunch linkers is tough, but it's very very doable even under pressure in game. The Robot Ninjas have the biggest window to do it on, however, one of a few things can happen depending where they are in the air:

1. The punch will connect and juggle them. (Punch was done too early)
2. The punch will connect and continue to combo.
3. The punch will connect and they can block it(Punch was done a frame or so too late.)
4. The punch whiffs and the first hit of the combo whiffs (Punch was done too late)

Sub Zero's seems to work on just about everyone minus the female ninjas, Sindel, and I think Stryker but it could be someone else. Everyone else's only seems to work on the Robots and Sheeva, Reptile's doesn't work on anyone because he has a lot of recovery time after his launcher. A few work on Unmasked Sub as well. The difficulty you are having getting them just goes to show they are not designed to be done in game, but I will say it again, it is possible.

Matt

The Prophet - R.I.P. 1979-2006
www.kombatnetwork.com
- Your Source for UMK3 Competition -

When something better than UMK3 comes out, I'll let you all know, because it still hasn't happened yet.
Dragon Points:
KhardynylPosted: 10/21/2003 01:59 PMStatus ::


Rank ::
Visits::807
Nationality::United Kingdom
RE: UMK3 Kombo Video Service Pack 1 Soon...

I'll try again then.

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KhardynylPosted: 10/21/2003 07:41 PMStatus ::


Rank ::
Visits::807
Nationality::United Kingdom
RE: UMK3 Kombo Video Service Pack 1 Soon...

I tried it against managed to do it once. So it is there but very difficult. The combo video suddenly looks even more amazing.

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MK2KungBrokenPosted: 10/22/2003 01:36 AMStatus ::


Rank ::
Visits::6269
Nationality::United States
RE: UMK3 Kombo Video Service Pack 1 Soon...

The best way to practice is on the Lost Stage, try to time it so you do the punch as the character's back just touches the Pit 2 Bridge in the background. Some characters have a different timing.

Classic Sub's timing would be, 4 hit pop up combo, and as the last hit connects, hold up+forward instantly like you would be doing a pursuit super jump in an aerial rave combo for a VS game, this way Sub leaves the ground the first instant he can and then wait until the character is very near to the ground and throw the punch on the way down with sub.

Some of the other characters cannot be done this way. I think for someone like MK2 Kung Lao in MKT, he recovers fast off his launcher uppercut, so you actually have to wait like a fraction of a second before jumping forward because if you jump too early it just doesn't have the right positioning to connect. A couple others are like that, I remember someone actually pushing the other person in air, and someone can almost land on the ground before the flying character does. I'll probably start working on more combos soon for Service Pack 2, might look into more with Trilogy, maybe come up with some legit stuff for Noob Saibot.

Matt

The Prophet - R.I.P. 1979-2006
www.kombatnetwork.com
- Your Source for UMK3 Competition -

When something better than UMK3 comes out, I'll let you all know, because it still hasn't happened yet.
Dragon Points:
KhardynylPosted: 10/22/2003 01:24 PMStatus ::


Rank ::
Visits::807
Nationality::United Kingdom
RE: UMK3 Kombo Video Service Pack 1 Soon...

I have to admit that UMK3 does have a certain charm despite the fact it is total crap :D

It looks great but the computer AI just leaves me hyper aggrivated.

Keep up the good work... well, as good as anything to do with MK3 engine games can be...

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KhardynylPosted: 10/22/2003 10:10 PMStatus ::


Rank ::
Visits::807
Nationality::United Kingdom
RE: UMK3 Kombo Video Service Pack 1 Soon...

I managed to do the Classic Sub Zero one from start to finish, including doing it past the finish him message, thus not giving me the combo >:O

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dreemernjPosted: 10/22/2003 11:45 PMStatus ::


Rank ::
Visits::5272
Nationality::United States
RE: UMK3 Kombo Video Service Pack 1 Soon...




Khardynyl Wrote:
I have to admit that UMK3 does have a certain charm despite the fact it is total crap :D

It looks great but the computer AI just leaves me hyper aggrivated.

Keep up the good work... well, as good as anything to do with MK3 engine games can be...


Hahaha, spoken like a true hater.

As far as the AI, yeah, it truely sucks. I think UMK3s is probably the worst of them all, however they were all pretty much horrible anyway. The only differance as far as MK1-U3 is concerned, I believe, is that MK3 and UMK3 were the first aggressive ones. They knew it when they were making the games that they would not be the turtly defensive crap that Mk1 and 2 were and they made the AI to kind of deal with that. But the AI just ended up sucking like it always had before.

As far as the game engine for UMK3, its still my personal favorite of any of the MKs just because of that aggressive nature it has. It always made it seem much more entertaining to me. It also suited how I always liked games to be, which is clear and easily understood once explored. I prefer the way the gameplay is set up over most other fighting games just because it seems stronger, clearer, and tighter, imo :)

MK2KungBrokenPosted: 10/23/2003 01:31 AMStatus ::


Rank ::
Visits::6269
Nationality::United States
RE: UMK3 Kombo Video Service Pack 1 Soon...

A side note, you should never, ever, be playing against the CPU AI in attempt to find depth in the game.

Matt

The Prophet - R.I.P. 1979-2006
www.kombatnetwork.com
- Your Source for UMK3 Competition -

When something better than UMK3 comes out, I'll let you all know, because it still hasn't happened yet.
KhardynylPosted: 10/23/2003 10:02 AMStatus ::


Rank ::
Visits::807
Nationality::United Kingdom
RE: UMK3 Kombo Video Service Pack 1 Soon...

Obviously the game would be better in Vs mode but UMK3 is particularly bad against the AI.

It's just a pity they put no effort into that side of the game at all. Not all of us have lots of friends hanging about, and certainly not people who want to play UMK3.

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KonqrrPosted: 10/23/2003 05:10 PMStatus ::


Rank ::
Visits::10283
Nationality::Mongolia
RE: UMK3 Kombo Video Service Pack 1 Soon...

Khardynyl Wrote:
It's just a pity they put no effort into that side of the game at all. Not all of us have lots of friends hanging about, and certainly not people who want to play UMK3.


Ah...that's where online play comes in. Just the other day I played UnderAlanis (MK2KungBroken??) at UMK3 and he basically handed me my ass over and over again. It was great fun and can't wait to do it again. I would love to play MK4 (I know how you guys loved that one) online, but the MAME people don't have any info on the Zeus game engine.

Anyone up for MK1/2/3/U MAME or MK2 zSNES? I'm always game for that...PM me day/time.

MKII is a Glorified RPG...Turn Based Chip Damage!
KhardynylPosted: 10/23/2003 09:21 PMStatus ::


Rank ::
Visits::807
Nationality::United Kingdom
RE: UMK3 Kombo Video Service Pack 1 Soon...

The amount of people that play MK games over kaillera can be counted on 1 finger.

They are all total hardcore snobs on there, all playing the latest KoF game. I remember waiting in a room with an MK2 game ready to go and not one person joined in an hour.

Being int he UK doesn't help, already less people to chose from plus I can't play on US servers as the lag is too bad.

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dreemernjPosted: 10/23/2003 10:12 PMStatus ::


Rank ::
Visits::5272
Nationality::United States
RE: UMK3 Kombo Video Service Pack 1 Soon...




Khardynyl Wrote:
Obviously the game would be better in Vs mode but UMK3 is particularly bad against the AI.

It's just a pity they put no effort into that side of the game at all. Not all of us have lots of friends hanging about, and certainly not people who want to play UMK3.


Yeah, pretty much if I hadn't spent literally years of my life playing against MK2KungBroken I probably would have never played MK at all. I played MK2 a bunch on my own but only to see how cool it looked, not to actually play. It took KungBroken's ass handing ability to inspire me to play :)

MK2KungBrokenPosted: 10/24/2003 12:59 AMStatus ::


Rank ::
Visits::6269
Nationality::United States
RE: UMK3 Kombo Video Service Pack 1 Soon...

I didn't even realize there was a second page to this until a few minutes ago.

MK2's AI was simplistic. The CPU simply walks towards you constantly, unyielding, and you have to pretty much move around them. It's rare that they ever jump and they get away with "free" throws, you cannot use the D+B method of avoiding being throw by them, it simply doesn't happen, because you could just hit them once and then duck and they will walk up and LP over you. This only happens in the first round of normal difficult setting. I believe on SNES you could uppercut the MK2 AI for at least 5 matches before the insta-throws turned on.

In MK3 it was almost the exact same thing except the computer uses run every now and then, and of course you can roundhouse the AI everytime they walk or run in regardless of the difficult level.

In UMK3 they made the CPU more defensive. They will sit at half screen distance, which is sort of a glitch, and mimmic your movements, so if you're up on energy, even if it's the first person of endurance, you can run the clock down and win that way because as long as you tap forward and then walk backwards from the wall when you get there, the CPU will never attack, again as long as you don't cross the invisible line.

Here are some "techniques" to beating the AI using characters with teleport moves or containment moves. Jump back, kick, the CPU throws a projectile, teleport, combo. Over and over again. This works with Scorpion, Smoke, Human Smoke, Sektor, Kung Lao, Cyrax (with some serious timing) and in MKT, Noob Saibot, MK2 Kung Lao, and Raiden. The only character this doesn't work with in terms of the AI opponent is MK1 Kano. He never throws his knife ever. So if you jump back and kick, he will just walk towards you, but there is a trick to beating him as well.

With Scorpion, Smoke, and Human Smoke, there is a harpoon trick. Do a sweep that makes the AI jump away, and they will then run in every time. Just harpoon them as they run in, with Scorpion, do an auto combo or roundhouse and as soon as the window opens, do another sweep and they will jump away and run in again, and repeat.

For Smoke, after the first harpoon, do HK, D+LP, D+HP, but make sure it breaks in the middle but it done fast enough so they can't throw you. After that Jump Kick, teleport punch, harpoon, repeat. If done right the CPU cannot escape this Pseudo infinite.

Cyrax you can snag them with the net if you get them in close. Make them run in and try to block as fast as you can, cause they will be sudden, then block a few hits and sneak out a net. This will get them very often.

With Sindel, they cannot block the scream if you are in close enough. They will always try to attack with a sweep or projectile. Some characters can get their proj out fast enough to hit Sindel, but they get caught in the scream regardless. Once you get the first scream, do her pop up combo, with a jump kick, then land and take 3 running steps to get close again, and scream right as they get up, and they will get caught every time.

With Kabal, try to get in as close as you can without "crossing the line", then jump away and kick extremely late, almost to the point you don't see the kick come out in air, land, duck the proj, and do the spin dash as fast as you can get it out and you will snag them on recovery frames.

Another way to beat just about any AI with any character, except the female Ninja against characters who cannot get starters to auto combos on them, use the jump away kick to entice a proj out of them, land and duck, and the CPU will usually run in, jump straight up and time a HP in air to auto combo. This works 99% of the time.

Another cheap trick, knock the CPU down get close to them, jump straight up and punch and it will floor them every time. So jump up, punch, land, run step, jump up, punch, they will keep jumping into it.

You will see from playing the AI and what moves make them land where, when each of these strats are useful. Other than that, unless you like winning and seeing the Fatality demonstration, or if you're like me and get to the arcade early and want to get use to the sticks, there's no reason to fight against the AI in UMK3. They will not make you a better player. If you have played mostly against the AI, you will be beaten unmericfully by a UMK3 professional.

Matt

The Prophet - R.I.P. 1979-2006
www.kombatnetwork.com
- Your Source for UMK3 Competition -

When something better than UMK3 comes out, I'll let you all know, because it still hasn't happened yet.
Dragon Points:
KhardynylPosted: 10/24/2003 11:52 AMStatus ::


Rank ::
Visits::807
Nationality::United Kingdom
RE: UMK3 Kombo Video Service Pack 1 Soon...

There are UMK3 professionals? =/

I know the AI of MK2 inside out and can beat it quite easily on the hardest difficulty. I am also quite deadly in 2 player mode but have not had much chance to play other people. I have always won whenever I have had the chance which pisses off the other people. That leaves me with no opponent again.

Even on very easy, the UMK3 AI is just terrible. If I murdered Ed Boon, I could use UMK3 AI as a defence and would get off. It can trap you in the corner and there is literally no escape. Every jump is instantanioulsy countered. If you jump early enough to win the air battle the AI decides not to jump and high kicks you. They wont even throw you out of the corner like in MK2.

I am trying to learn the patterns are tricks, but when you get beaten so perfectly constantly, you don't feel like playing UMK3 ever again in your life. I haven't got to the Endurance match once on very easy on the first destiny path. Calling it very easy is a lie, the AI couldn't possibly be any more merciless.

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MK2KungBrokenPosted: 10/24/2003 05:22 PMStatus ::


Rank ::
Visits::6269
Nationality::United States
RE: UMK3 Kombo Video Service Pack 1 Soon...

OK that is considered borderline terrible if you can't get to endurance on Novice. Just pick Robot Smoke, beat the first 2 characters with things like jump kicks and cross up auto combos. Then the next 3 jump away kick, teleport punch before you touch the ground, make sure they throw a projectile, TPP hits, HP, harpoon, roundhouse, jump away, kick, repeat. You will win. If the AI is beating you like this, that means the AI is amazingly good, not bad, but it's not good, as long as you don't set yourself up to lose. If they do get you in the corner, they will run in, do a couple knee lifts, get pushed away, just let them chip at you for a few seconds, then they will eventually walk back to the half screen safe zone. Tap forward about 5 to 10 times to give you some distance from the corner, and begin the jump away kick/teleport strategy. I can't wait til you get to Motaro lol...

Yes there are UMK3 professionals, I am one of them. I once played in a UMK3 tourny two years ago in Philly on a machine that was pretty much all but broken because they installed 360 sticks on it, when factory sticks are only 4 way, meaning you can't walk backwards and then roll the joystick to down back and duck, you have to make a straight movement to down back if you want the anti throw position. There were a whopping 12 people in the tournament, most of which were regulars at the place. My friend Ryan (The Prophet) on shoryuken.com placed 2nd, 1st was a guy who places in the top 5 of just about every tourny game he participates in, be it CvS2, MvC2, or even the archaic UMK3.

I'd also like to point out some things about CapCom AI.

In SF2, the computer can become virtually impossible to beat, no matter what you do. There are times when there is no strategy that will beat them, and the AI also makes up for lack of effort by doing double damage, or counter damage all the time. One time, I did a blanka ball, and Ken dragon punched me. It did *50%* damage. In UMK3, there are very very very few instances where damage changes in their favor, the only one I can think of, and probably 1% of the UMK3 fan base noticed this, is Jade's 7 hit auto combo. It does more damage for the CPU for some reason, and also you can't do the return boomerang against the CPU, it's disabled.

Onto SSF2T. This game has the most insanely perfect AI of any game I've ever played. I have never beaten the 2nd character, because they, much like the UMK3 AI, play perfectly, but in every respect. And the super damage on top of that.

SFA3. Super damage. Many of the times I lose a match to SFA3 AI is because of the enormous damage they do, and the minimal damage they take.

In other words, UMK3 AI is designed to make you find people to play against. That's all. When you find someone good enough who will make you discover the ins and outs of the game, you will enjoy it. Around here there was fortunately a UMK3 Machine at a local video store for a couple years. The guy who ran the place is known as "Elder God Terry" and he would ask us what games we wanted in, he even tried to find an MK2 for us in like 1996, but his supplier didn't circulate them anymore. Anyway I owned that place because I started playing MK3 right when it came out, then by the time UMK3 came out, the one guy who could beat me came back around and I beat him, he couldn't believe the improvement. (I was only 14 or 15 or so at the time).

If you want, we can play on Kaillera sometime on a UK server.

Matt

The Prophet - R.I.P. 1979-2006
www.kombatnetwork.com
- Your Source for UMK3 Competition -

When something better than UMK3 comes out, I'll let you all know, because it still hasn't happened yet.
Dragon Points:
KhardynylPosted: 10/24/2003 08:28 PMStatus ::


Rank ::
Visits::807
Nationality::United Kingdom
RE: UMK3 Kombo Video Service Pack 1 Soon...

I fell asleep halfway through reading that. Just kidding. Even if I had I wouldn't tell you that :P

I am well aware of the insane AI in SSF2T. It makes you wonder why they would make the AI so impossible. Maybe it is to stop single players and get double the money with 2 people playing all the time.

I would be willing to play online sometime.

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dreemernjPosted: 10/24/2003 08:30 PMStatus ::


Rank ::
Visits::5272
Nationality::United States
RE: UMK3 Kombo Video Service Pack 1 Soon...

I'd be willing to play online as well, on a UK server even if you would like. For whatever reason online play hates me miserably so even though I have a good connection my games are insanely mega super choppy. So why not have lag too :)

KhardynylPosted: 10/24/2003 09:10 PMStatus ::


Rank ::
Visits::807
Nationality::United Kingdom
RE: UMK3 Kombo Video Service Pack 1 Soon...

Perhaps we could find a server equadistant from both of us? My connection is 576/287 sp on UK servers I don't get any lag at all. I should be able to go slightly away fromt he UK and still have decent enough pings.

I just realised a server between the UK and America would be in the Atlantic Ocean or in China. Hmmmm.

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MK2KungBrokenPosted: 10/25/2003 01:10 AMStatus ::


Rank ::
Visits::6269
Nationality::United States
RE: UMK3 Kombo Video Service Pack 1 Soon...

I was thinking maybe a server in Bermuda or something would be good lol, whatever the case may be, I have gotten decent pings to UK, like 120ish, and I even played on a Germany Server once against a guy in a SSF2T tourny who was from the UK and beat him.

Matt

The Prophet - R.I.P. 1979-2006
www.kombatnetwork.com
- Your Source for UMK3 Competition -

When something better than UMK3 comes out, I'll let you all know, because it still hasn't happened yet.
John_LovelydudePosted: 10/25/2003 11:07 AMStatus ::


Rank ::
Visits::31
Nationality::Togo
RE: UMK3 Kombo Video Service Pack 1 Soon...

120 isn't good. Still it's better than my 56K getting 180 on UK servers.

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MK2KungBrokenPosted: 10/25/2003 04:06 PMStatus ::


Rank ::
Visits::6269
Nationality::United States
RE: UMK3 Kombo Video Service Pack 1 Soon...

Well if you're in the UK getting 180 on dial up that's normal, but I'm on cable, I was just saying that 120 ms is livable especially if the server is good.

Matt

The Prophet - R.I.P. 1979-2006
www.kombatnetwork.com
- Your Source for UMK3 Competition -

When something better than UMK3 comes out, I'll let you all know, because it still hasn't happened yet.
KhardynylPosted: 10/25/2003 07:52 PMStatus ::


Rank ::
Visits::807
Nationality::United Kingdom
RE: UMK3 Kombo Video Service Pack 1 Soon...

Should we try to arrange some sort of time then?
You suggest some kind of time then I'll see if I can make it.

another thing, what version of MAME do you use? I don't have Kaillera at all at the moment. My normal MAME is .69 due to them removing the speed hacks for Mortal Kombat in the versions after. The game wont play full speed on my 1.8Ghz without the speed hacks.

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MK2KungBrokenPosted: 10/25/2003 09:21 PMStatus ::


Rank ::
Visits::6269
Nationality::United States
RE: UMK3 Kombo Video Service Pack 1 Soon...

I have Mame32K .64, that's what just about everyone uses, the time zone thing could be a problem, but I am usually up very late, around 5AM (US eastern standard time), it works well with my work schedule and there isn't a lot of net traffic at that time. I could send you Mame32K .64 if you'd like.

Matt

The Prophet - R.I.P. 1979-2006
www.kombatnetwork.com
- Your Source for UMK3 Competition -

When something better than UMK3 comes out, I'll let you all know, because it still hasn't happened yet.
KhardynylPosted: 10/25/2003 11:58 PMStatus ::


Rank ::
Visits::807
Nationality::United Kingdom
RE: UMK3 Kombo Video Service Pack 1 Soon...

That's ok, I'll find it myself. 64 is what I was using but I haven't played anyhting online for a few months.

Be warned. I have been practiving with Human Smoke and have mastered a 56% damage combo that doesn't rely on any corners :P

The time difference could be a big problem. Give me a perfect time for you and I'll see if I can make it.

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