What does it matter? It just proves my point that the people that give the positive opinions are the ones who have actually played it. Yet you have yet to get your hands on a copy and you are completely trashing it. BTW, weren't you one of those guys who told everyone to stop labeling people as "hardcore" fans, because it was a dumb idea and hardcore fans didn't exist? You are not a true hardcore fan, a true hardcore fan would look positive and optimistic of these things. You're just an old crybaby who views the glass as half empty rather than half full.

It matters simply because they haven't been following the series. They may have played the games just for review purposes but they don't see the weaknesses that us, the loyal fans do. So as stated before, of course they'll be pulled into by the gimmics.

Seeing the positive? Excuse me? Thats just like seeing a woman getting raped by a man on the street but saying to your self "Maybe she's enjoying it, I won't call the police". Thats how I feel with this game. I was raised to be REAL not fake, I hail from Chicago and we don't act fake, we speak our minds.

Also, I have eyes, I can SEE all the same punches, kicks and other boring shit from the past three games. SIX years of the same shit.

LOL, Now you're comparing the positives in video-games to rape... that's a NO NO. Rape is a whole different issue, you'd have to be a crazy sociopath to find positives in rape.

Of course the game will have similar moves... no fighting game changes the moveset. Most characters have the same moves in SCIV then they did in 3 and 2. Tekken characters have the same moves. Hell, even the SFIV characters have the same moves. The dynamic change is the change from dialing combos to free-hand combos, where one can do moves freely to his choosing... and that's what is turning this game into a positive outcome. Again, you will ALWAYS get the same moves, in any fighting game.

Thats the whole point. Also if they re-invented this junk then each character should have their own unique way of punching. Little things like that really lets you know that they really did change engines and DID re-invent things.

Keep in mind that when Boon said he was wiping the slate clean and starting everything from scratch, that was before they started working with DC. I don't know if you were still expecting 100% new after that point, but it was very clear that wasn't going to happen. You shouldn't keep your hopes so high for something with such a low chance of possibility. I've learned to lower my expectations (thank you MK:A), it makes the news, and the game itself, look and feel much better. Overall, it's not a bad game... you're just over-thinking such simple concepts and exaggerating the game to an oblivion.

LOL, And the MKO readers who are on my side rejoice for PA has won yet another victory! So you admit that this game isen't the solution to universal healthcare.

Jesus is your only solution to Universal Healthcare.

Read this thread at SRK featuring posts from various people who've played the game, and if that isn't enough, posts from Jason "DreamTR" Wilson, the guy writing the fucking STRATEGY GUIDE for the game, and realise that your "arguments" are baseless and you would do yourself a favor by shutting the fuck up because everyone can see you don't have any idea what you're talking about.

If making yourself look like an ignorant pretentious jackass is a victory, then you sir are the grand champion.

Just ignore ProfesserAhnka, he has no idea what he's talking about.

Also, no I 'd rather have an M rating. I think that if the game was rated M, it would still have all the things we've seen thus far, just with alot more blood and great fatalities. But I'm not having a problem with the T rating.

Ease up on Professor Ahnka. The man is entitled to his opinion.

Based on what I've SEEN, I'm pretty skeptical myself. I've learned not to trust previews and reviews. After all, Mortal Kombat Armageddon got very good scores from the likes of IGN and other mags and sites, on par to and equal to the scores of fighting games in the Dead or Alive and Soul Calibur markets, but any good fighting game fan (and MK fan) found it to be a highly inferior product to the other fighters on the market, but quantity over quality won over many journalists and reviewers, who, let's be honest, do not play the game competatively.

It doesn't matter if the guy is writing the strategy guide even. I have yet to use a strategy guide for a fighting game. Why? Because that's one man's style of play, and he can hardly master, perfect, and find the nuances and flaws of every single character in the game the way a single dedicated overzealous, frame-counting fighting game fan can.

I fully expect MK vs DC to get decent marks on most sites, perhaps even comparable to Soul Calibur IV's scores. But I also expect that the core fighting audience will be less than impressed with the final product, giving us yet another MK game that's the "diet coke" of fighting games, full of bells and whistles, flash and pizazz, but lacking in substance, depth, fluidity, and nuance.

But I do not know. The game could be a smashing success and I'd be all the happier for it, but I'm looking at the franchise's less than stellar history and the current videos and teasers I've been shown so far, and I have no hopes that the trend of mediocre MK games will cease anytime soon, Captain Marvel, T-rating, and clunky combat notwithstanding. Nobody can tell me that Midway is putting more emphasis on balanced games, wake ups, and throw escapes than they are on Klose Kombat and Free-Fall Kombat.

We would if we could get posts like this out of him, but he compared the positives in video games to RAPE.

I agree with Garl, once again. I too feel like they spent more time on Free Fall and Klose Kombat than anything else game play wise. And they have most certainly milked those two fighting mechanics for all they are worth. That's pretty much all they talked about for months. When it comes to game play, they aren't advertising the free form combo system like they are the other modes.

Because their main market aren't video gamers who would appreciate that sort of thing. They're mostly aiming for the younger, casual gamers who want to see pretty things when they play

ProfesserAhnka needs to cool down and stop his vendetta against the game.

Anyway I don't have a problem with the t-rating. I don't love it but I don't hate it. I must say though that I doubt Midway will continue the t-rating.

These gimmicks aren't bad, at least we know it's part of the fighting itself and it doesn't take away from the core fighting and gameplay focus. It sure beats the hell out of those lousy Chess, Puzzle and Kart games... way to throw us off the completely wrong direction and divert us from the horrible gameplay the team was too lazy to fix.

Arrrg, Chess Kombat and Puzzle Kombat are evil! Now those were true gimmicks at their best. Horrible. If MK ever includes Mini games again in future titles, it needs to be adventure based. Something kind of like that one mini game that was in Tekken 5 with Jin Kazama. Or at least i think it was Tekken 5. Not sure.

Chess Kombat gives you more fights than playing Arcade Mode does, and you don't have to play as the same character for every single match. I always liked it best of all the modes in Deception and would like to see it come back.

O.O NO chess kombat! ever again! *cracks whip*

Yeah it was Tekken 5. I don't mind them doing some kind of a mini Shaolin Monks for future MK fighting games... just as long as they don't lose ANY focus from the actual fighting game. They should concentrate completely on the core fighting game, once that's done and it looks and plays great, they can throw in a decent mini adventure game to pass some time and unlock a few things.

Professor Ahnka is certainly entitled to his opinion and certainly entitled to say whatever he pleases. But when you start saying things which are observably untrue and stating them as facts, ie; saying this game is the same shit we got in 2002, then I think people are fairly entitled to call him out on that.

I understand your point about the strategy guide author and I think it's very valid, because many authors of various fighting game guides are useless at what they do, but this guy is legit. The point here is that there are people who do know very well what they're talking about when it comes to fighting games more than most users at this site - who would usually stick their noses in the air and never go anywhere near a Mortal Kombat game - and these people have played this game, and are optimistic about it. I think that's a good sign. And I'm willing to place more stock in those opinions than the opinions of people who've never played this game and in all likelihood aren't serious competitive gamers at all.

Honestly, I'm expecting this game to be nowhere near the standards of Street Fighter IV, Tekken 6, or Soul Calibur IV, and I don't think anyone else is either. Midway's track record is shocking, and the engine that this series of 3D MK games has been built on is clunky and comparitively awful. But if this is the most polished game that could be build on such terrible foundations, then I don't know how much more people could ask from Midway in this situation. There's no way this is going to be great fighting game, but it doesn't have to be, it just has to be passable. As it is, the people who've played it for more than five minutes seem to be describing it as MKD with considerably less suck, and considerably more playability and depth. If that's true and it makes this the most competitively playable 3D MK game to date then, hey, I'll take it. Regardless of how toned down the violence is.

I saw this title and went "Whaaat?" lol

Look, I see what you're saying, but I feel like it's incorrectly applied, according to what's actually going on.

First, some background: I'm one of those people who can become obsessive when I dig into something I'm interested in. Especially when it comes to a goal that I wanna reach. I'm also one of those people who is unusually talented when these^^ qualities are vested in whatever the artistry I apply myself to. The art form never matters with me for some reason, though some matrices take longer than others to actually master. And lastly (that is relative here), I get extremely competitive on the journey to a successful goal. Usually that means friendly competition, and to those who I'm competing with, it is largely an "unspoken" thing. It happens, and it's respectful, but above all the twists and turns that happen (including an actual, but rare fight sometimes) it's fun. Now, why put this out there? It's to allow you to know that I completely understand what it takes to limit yourself on purpose, as an artist.....of anything. Any art.

I get it.
==

So, coming to MkvsDc now. By limiting themselves to a T rating, the greatest challenge comes from a creative standpoint. Now, we all probably should understand that there is an artistry that becomes apparent in anything that requires "Tender Love and Care". Especially when there's a time limitation attached to when you get passionate about it. Then there's patience (whoa).

Point is, you don't traditionally receive something "better" from a purposeful limitation. You receive a greater thing out of creativity, no matter what the limitation is. What I see going on here, is like when Rappers make it a point NOT to curse in their rhymes. What that infers is that the substance, and true talent of the lyricist should shine through. BUT, what people don't like to admit is that most of the time, this doesn't work. Most of the time, the true beauty from the artist, came from the raw, unprohibited talent of the artist.

With that said Malone.....this T Rating isn't a contributor to the best things that are gonna come out of this game, stand alone. The best, most memorable things to come out of any artistry, are great ideas, that happened to be executed wonderfully.

Inherently, that's why I always wait to play a game before I definitively judge it. Because they could have thought something up, aaand, executed it to an ingenious degree. I mean, you know what the objective is at the end of the day...."Come up with something fun to play". Which is basically saying "Create something new that I care about, that makes perfect sense, and is executed well".

So where people get lost at, is ALWAYS on execution. It's always in "Making these great ideals come to life sensibly". Hell, finishing something is an accomplishment in game development. And there is no exception with Mortal Kombat.

So, I think their biggest problem is, coming up with a better concept = a graduation from the original concept, that is sensible, and to where the execution is as appreciated as the original games' concepts. Presentation should be a given if the concept is great, and it's not with MkvsDc.
==

Now, more based in - "in my opinion":

I feel strongly, that they did not grow in-to the appropriate" "new" Mk. "Appropriate" meaning, that they didn't take what I cared about in the old games, and graduate from that. Which leads me to believe that they didn't, and still don't really know what I care about........about their product. And if this is true, they cannot capitalize on "IT"......At least, not until I tell them what "IT" is. lol

Furthermore, I'm not blind, and I don't believe I'm too cynical in what I'm asking for. Says that, I see that some things coming to this game were done really well, actually. But the problem is, most of what I like about this product, hasn't been properly capitalized on. And actually, most of what I like, has been hinted on, and left open ended.

So, as far as MkvsDC is concerned, I still feel like a T rating won't give them a proper improvement. Although I absolutely do understand why an artist, or team of artists, would want to accept a limitation like this T rating.

Like I said, I get it.
==

Gameplay

Notice, I'm not talking about Fatalities or Gore. BUT the thing is, considering why an artist subjects themselves to limitations from time to time, Fatalities and Gore should probably be the core reasons why they would have subjected themselves to this kind of limitation. I'm saying that, in a game following MkvsDc, we should almost especially expect to see the Aesthetics of the game to become better, as a result of this kind of limitation. give or take...

Because, it is a creative venture when you do this sort of thing. See what I'm sayin'?

So, it's not necessarily be gameplay mechanics that "get better". It's.....whether Dail-a-Combos or String Combos are implemented in a way that gives us control of "Movie Choreography" (for instance).

That's a "better" gameplay Concept than the original MK games actually executed. Although, this concept was in those early games already. It already existed, which is what makes movie choreography sound good. That's what you want though....because a concept that sounds good, sells itself. Right?
So that's an Aesthetic aspect of gameplay. It's up to the nuts and bolts to make that concept work right, yea.....But since the limitations of a gaming matrix don't really change over night...I'll call it when I see it.

Finally, a T rating doesn't help a fighting mechanic. However, a T rating could help provide the thought process that it takes to come up with a new concept of "how fighting appears and feels", and that uses those mechanics. But that's as indirect as you can get about that. heh...
==

Story

It's a stretch to say that a T rating really has an effect on MK's story. Because you can go damn near anywhere with a story without even trying to maintain Teen appropriate content. You can do that on accident just thinking about how many ninjas MK has in it.

Most of MK's story element historically, has always been Teen appropriate. There's rare bits and pieces that could qualify for M rated content though.

That said, we've never seen an M rated Story element in Mortal Kombat. The M rated pinnacle that MK should probably be through and through.
==

Setting//Mood...or what have you

The contexts, interpretations, and understandings of T and M rated content has evolved.

Mortal Kombat has not.

So this is an area where MK has delivered more of the same with MKvsDC. When Boon or somebody mentions that....that "fan who will always complain about something". THIS-is-why-it-seems-that-way. I have absolutely no doubt in my mind. lol

I think what they should be getting, are New people, that bring up New issues from game to game. Because, as they rectify things in a current campaign, new issues will come up after a game is released. Instead, as I traverse all these MK forums and such, I see some of the same core issues never actually confronted. Never actually concluded.

With MkvsDC, I hope that at least most of the Gameplay issues of the past are answered. We should be able to tell because, complaints//concerns will get particular afterwards. Like: "We loved the new game mechanic, but what if we could ___ while ___".
Right now though, it's still all over the place.

Anyway, after all that, I feel like it's because Mortal Kombat is no longer definitively "competing" with any other game any longer. They're not "trying to beat" anybody anymore (this is a fighting game though, haha..). And so, the creative ambition has been absent for a long time now. Which is allowing them an excuse to "limit themselves with a T rating", and have a convincing case about it.

Alot of it I think, has to do with a message from fans that is unclear, and all over the place. If a good, general, message is not communicated properly, and you only have the polar extremes screaming at you, the intent of the message gets lost in translation, and the result will get all screwed up in the process.

-[I don't wanna come off too bold here or anything, but I had the idea for close combat (fighting in close quarters) a long time ago. And if they actually picked up on that from me(?), it's my fault for not communicating the idea properly. Because right now, I don't like that it's a "separate mechanic that intentionally interrupts the flow of gameplay". Simply put, I meant something else when I wrote that(lol). Hope it turns out well for my sake IF this is the case.]-

But, you gotta remember that, when there's nobody left to compete with, you're supposed to compete with yourself. Aaand, I don't think they have been doing either effectively. What I see is "Just make a game", or, "Just give people something to do until the next one."

The follow up to that, is "Make sure there's something fun or clever to do in the game." and it's a wrap. Which, I think is where all these little mini games and stuff started taking a huge toll on squandering otherwise great potential. Wrong, wrong, wrong....Baaad MkTeam. No-no. haha..

--
I kind of expected a T rating once DC came into play. But the thing is, in most recent years, MK's mood has been nothing but T rated. Evem with the M rating on it.

That's not a change as a result of a T rated limitation, that's an adaptation of a long-time T rated franchise in DC, as a consequence of MK never evolving as an M rated game. The only real changes have been accommodations.
==

Uum, last thing I wanna touch on here, is

Potential

The T rating proposal has great potential. No doubt. You know I see it. But the point that's often missed by the MkTeam is, Mortal Kombat's potential. All by itself.

I said this in the recordings that, "They don't need to deviate from Mortal Kombat, to get a fresh, new, Mortal Kombat." They've opened up damn near every door they could have, but never walked through most of them. They've made inference after inference throughout all of the elements that make up Mortal Kombat , but never "explained" much about any of the inferences through the games or otherwise.

For instance, take the "Shock Value". The graduation from the mere Shock Value in Mks past (fatalities, gore...ect) are things like "Phobias"....."Nightmare-ish situations". Um..."Complex Disagreements" between two or more parties. Things like an "Utter Betrayal" or "Vicious Theft" types of situations. Present those though the story element, and that show up in the gameplay concept...like the movie choreography I mentioned earlier.

Application? Well, if my character is the methodical, menacing black widow personality of Quan Chi in his story, once we get into gameplay, he should probably be doing alot of "stealing", or setting alot of traps; Along with, vicious direct attacks. *shrugs* makes sense to me because Quan Chi is not shy.....lol He's secretive. He's like, the best hide-and-go-seek player ever. lmao! But, it becomes a "scary situation" once you get so good at hiding in that game right? Even moreso with Quan Chi, because he's an aggressor. There you go....

Point here, is that in this example with Quan Chi and Shock Value, they opened the door to alot of good things. But they didn't follow through with that character iMo. He's not good enough considering what a M rated Quan Chi character should be like now days.

Now go over to the Gods and Bosses? These guys should signify the most intense and unreal confrontations we are able to imagine, from current day interpretations of their respected character descriptions. They shouldn't just be "All Powerful". They should be impossibly "everywhere", have impossible legions of minions, seem unimaginably intelligent and wise, and be the most calculated, methodical, beings in our games....and then take on a role in the overall story.

Now go over to Monsters and Humans? Monsters should be so vile and terrifying. They should probably compete with whatever the latest "scary thing" is, in the movie theaters. Humans should cast the warmth of "home" and "security". We should feel like Lois Lane, whenever she's with Superman. lmaO! But there should be obvious reasons about human characters why that is.

Now go over to the arenas....Now the Fantasy element....Now back to the overall and individual stories and their gameplay counterparts.

-- Point in all this?^^ This is some of the potential of a M rated Mortal Kombat game. Which is what they haven't really gotten close to, in contrast to where they probably should be right now pertaining to the modern interpretations of M rated content. Right now, all of that potential is totally feasible, it's vast and plentiful, and it's an unlimited source for "fresh and new" Mortal Kombat content.

So, IF the T rating serves any real purpose, it's really only aesthetically motivated. i.e.: As a "Fatalities and Gore" creativity reassessment.

Like I said though, right now this T rating is a consequence of not evolving into a proper, year 2000>> M rated MK game. In other words:

"The MkTeam thinks the plausibility of a T rated MK game is okay to exercise, when that possibility should not exist".

====

Whether this venture is the best thing to happen to Mk has yet to be seen. But I'm on board for a successful campaign and launch. Even though I strongly disagree for more, and I think stronger reasons than you have to support it.

Excuse the novel....

151

Did you know that MK4 for the gameboy/color had a Teen rating and yet one of the FMV fatality has someone ripping off someone elses head.So the joker fatality should have stayed in the game the way it was meant to be in the first place.

please,remember this post:i'm ready to bet 10€8which have higher value than $) that this game will sell a milion copies.
the same exact thing that did back in 2006 armageddon,and back in 2005 shaolin monks.
again:are we so sure that ALL(i mean just EVERYONE) the ones that brought mk armageddon or shaolin monks are adults?
Let's be objective...a good 70% of the old school fanbase had left the saga since mk4,a good 20 % is skeptical about the last two-three games and the remaining 10% is composed by new fanboys which never played a MK arcade machine back in 1992-93-95.

The question is:is this game really for MK fans,or maybe Midwat had a sdifferent market targeting?
If they make mk vs dcu to gather as more as possible DC fanboys..they failed literally.
A good amount of MK fans already knew and read DC Comics,other MK guys begun to read DC comics in the few last months due to the game announciament,but i can guarantee that almost nobody from the DC side have shown interest in the mk saga.
and i think it's no coincidence that Midway put on shelves MK Kollection:they hoped that someone from the DC side show interest in the mk saga but for what i know MK Kollection failed miserably.
Maybe some DC fanboy would like to play the game 'cause there aren't good DC fighting games out there,maybe a few people are fanboys of both universe...but again they just get back the fans they lost in the announciament(and i can guarantee that MK lost a huge number of mk fanboys).

now look the game in particulars...

GRAPHICS.
high detais but still full of problems:
1)recycled animation from past three games,it's pretty obvious;
2)the characters still looks like cartoon(except for Sonya which finally looks a female and not a mash-up of poligons with triangular boobs and hair pasted on her head)
3)arenas are ugly,low detailed and poor:the free fall kombat areas are put in stupid positions and are quite unrealistical(at least in deception you have to break trough walls or platforms and finding out a different place,but can someone explain me how in the hell you encounter the SAME building and SAME corner street after breaking through a wall in the metropolis arena?)

gameplay wise:
1)recycled moves
2)reading the comments of who have played the game some characters are unbalanced
3)rage mode is just the aggressor bar in mk trilogy
4)fatalities and heroic brutality are not satisfactory at all,except for the joker one(of the finisher showed till now of course)

in general
1)the game should be serious"No mre jokes in here" said Ed Boon,but Liu Kang stills drop at you a MK arcade machine
2)t rating:first the DC,now the ESRB are limiting ED Boon & co creativity with fatals
3)Midway didn't get any advantage from this DC partnership:WB won't touch a MK movie,DC won't publishing a MK Comic...DC gained some MK fans,but what the hell does Midway gained from DC?


MY OPINION.

as xbox 360 UK official magazine said:"this ame is hopeless!".

In all honesty, I'm not here to be the bad guy or to "try" and piss you guys off. All i'm doing is just speaking my opinions, that's all. Also I love debating and see it as harmless but its obvious alot of you are taking it really serious. I shouldn't be ignored, I'm not a troll. If I was a troll I would type in caps and cuss out the MK team and everyone else. But I don't, I just speak my mind in an agressive manner. I have no hard feelings, this is just a game and i'm just trying to get my opinions out there.

Also, yes, the fatality is what did it for me. I mean doing it off screen cause they HAVE to(and not want to, thats the difference between smoke's in the MK3 series) that is what really gave me a wake up call and confirmed my worst fears that MK has sold out(least for this game). I really don't want to get into it but when you have to throw away all the elements that is APART of your franchise for someone else, it's selling out, any way you slice it.

But I really really don't want to get into it, we've already went over this. Anyway, I'm sorry i'm sending some of you into a blinding rage but its not intentional. But just because i'm not saying "OMGZ THIS IZ THE BEST MK GAME EVENZ BETTER THAN PARTS TWO" Doesn't mean i'm a troll.