I would imagine they've heard about the backlash, but they probably don't care or if they do WB most likely doesn't want them to say.

Ed put up a pic of a blue Cyber-ninja helmet wearing Freddy's fedora on top of a TE box a while back. I think that's their way of poking fun at us about how seriously we took it.

But going back to the launch, someone said they weren't sure they'd be bringing CSZ back. They were prepared for the backlash at any rate.

If Cyber Sub doesn't return, at least keep the design for another character, it's too good to throw it away.

Haha! I hate to say it, but yeah, the design is pretty badass! It would have been the best Cyber Smoke ever...


It would be nice to hear from the "story guys", they've been awfully quiet. Tsk, tsk, tsk...

The "gameplay guys" have been amazing though: keeping in touch with the tourney guys and going to the tourneys, discussing gameplay issues with the players, getting to know the players and even having dinner with them, taking pictures with them, trolling in the chat room along with the "stream monsters" etc...

He won't be back, there's a reason why they killed him off in the last game.

Yeah. Same with EVERY OTHER CHARACTER.

You kiddin' me, dude? Of course he'll be back.

Just don't hold me to it

After finding out the game's entire story, I wasn't even concerned about Cyber Sub-Zero anymore. He was like problem #28.

Aww, you really mean that? Well, then I will try not to disappoint you. ;)

I would absolutely LOVE it if Sub-Zero returns as a cyborg. He's the new cyborg in town and he already has alot more story potential than any of the other cyborgs. Sektor's storyline is pretty obvious - He will take over the Lin Kuei and try rule the world, like he did when he made the Tekunin clan back in the original storyline. Nothing new there, but it suits him and it will give Subbie another enemy to worry about than his eternal struggle with Scorpion.

Cyrax's future at this point is unknown. Will he stay a mindless drone to Sektor's might or will he be rescued by the Special Forces and regain his free will and humanity like in his original storyline? Well, the "good guys" side need more members now that most of them have fallen, so I hope Sonya will turn Cyrax to their side, maybe with the help of Raiden now that Jax is dead. I just see more potential in Cyrax as a good guy than an evil mindless servant - that would just make him no better than Baraka or Reptile.

Sub-Zero, however, remained a cyborg even in death, and I think (and hope!) that there is a reason for that. He will probably start out as a mindless servant for Quan Chi like the rest of the fallen, but after the good guys kick Quan Chi's and Shinnok's butts, hopefully all the fallen heroes will return to their own selves and continue their lives.

Everything Subbie did in the old timeline, well, who says he still can't do that? He'll just be a cyborg when doing so. He can kick Sektor off the throne and become the Grandmaster of the Lin Kuei, discover his Cryomancer ancestors in Outworld, train Frost as his apprentice soon to be betrayed by her, take in Sareena and protect her from herself... All that stuff isn't really lost yet, just because he became a cyborg. However, if NRS wishes to change all of that, then the possibilities are ENDLESS!

IF Subbie were to come back as a human, however, well... I must admit, I would be rather disappointed. First of all because NRS aren't sticking to their guns and are bending down to the dissatisfied fans... There might be many dissatisfied fans, but there are also alot of us who think Cyber Subbie is an improvement, and NRS needs to know that. Just because the negative voices are loudest does not mean they are the majority.

Second, I am not a fan of the typical ninja palette swap look. That's a personal reason, of course, but I would hate to see Subbie change back to look like the blue Scorpion clone he's always been, now after NRS finally had the guts to make such a major change to him. Yes, there are two other cyborgs already, so one could make the arguement that he just turned into a palette swap of them, but honestly, I would rather have that than his old looks. Again, it's a personal preference.

And third... Cyber Sub-Zero simply looks absolutely, amazingly badass. His gameplay needs to be improved on and turned more unique, so he won't have those copy-moves, but other than that, I see major potential in this change for ol' Subbie. He's been immortalized. never to become old and eventually die of old age or sickness, like he might have as a human. That's gotta count for something.

So NRS, if you are reading this...
Good job on Cyber Sub-Zero. May he stay that way.

sup

They can do plenty more interesting things with Sub-Zero than keeping him a cyborg.

Yet they changed him back to this:







I do like Subbie's MKD outfit, but then he turned back to look like the boring palette swap once more. His most recent look is nice, but still the palette swap look is apparent in it.

I still prefer him as a cyborg.

Sub-Zero hasn't looked like a palette swap of Scorpion since the 2D era.


Aside from having masks and a loin cloth Scorpion and Sub-Zero's costumes aren't similar enough to matter in this game, MKD, MKDA, etc.


As for the topic, I don't think there's been any official comments on the subject, but I just hope human Sub-zero returns, such a pointless and uninteresting change.

What's the triumphant point of defeating Sektor in the future as a cyborg? My tech beat your tech? Because apart of the message and appeal was that man was able to conquer cold blooded machine with his own abilities. Proving the Lin Kuei wrong about the Cyber initiative as well.

They could easily just have CSZ return for his gameplay, regardless as I've been an advocate of them keeping this same roster and just adding onto it each game.

Since when is J-R one of "the story guys"?

Now, if Cyber Sub stays (which I don't mind) make him a totally new moveset, I understand he was like a last minute incorporation (not story-wise but gameplay-wise) and probably the character with less effort put in, but c'mon Cyrax's nerfed bombs and teleport, Sub's slower ice ball and slide, and a dive kick? Fail.

I've always cared about the storyline of MK. Where have you been?
Just because I don't overly dislike the new storyline like the rest of you.

Well it's one thing to care about it, but personally I guess I define "a story guy" as someone who's an expert on it and answers people's questions in threads and stuff. And I'm not just thinking about myself, there's T-Rex, Garlador, PNF...a few others whose names escape me at the moment.

I don't overly dislike anything, I just don't think everything they did was good, but I won't get into that as I don't wish to take the thread too far off course.

I'd like to hear from NRS what they personally think of CSZ, that Fedora and CSZ mask might give an indication of their thoughts, but I'd like something a bit more thought provoking.

I'm not going to argue with you who is considered a "story guy" and whose not, I just consider myself one as the story of MK is the one thing I am most interested in and have read up upon it many times for each character, and it is one of the reasons I like MK as much as I do.

What you define as a "story guy" is something I really couldn't care less about.
If you consider yourself a "story guy", then maybe you should answer to the main topic of this thread instead of going off-topic.



Don't worry, that was not pointed at you. ^^

Fair enough.

The thing with me is I don't just think MK9 was a story where things I didn't like happened. I think MK9 is a story riddled with genuine and serious technical and artistic flaws. And Cyber Sub-Zero is just one of many symptoms. I feel like Temp said, CSZ isn't even that big a deal to me anymore because he's just one on a long list of bad decisions they made while writing this one.

Now, I kind of get the impression that the team stopped taking their own story seriously a few games back and "a blue helmet wearing Freddy's fedora" is kind of a metaphor for the whole thing. Like, to them it's just the silly shit they write to explain why their crazy characters are fighting each other, the same as in Street Fighter or Tekken because that's the audience they want now, and they gave up on making sense back in Shaolin Monks and Armageddon.

To be honest, they can bring Kuai into the next one as still a robot if they like and I won't really be fazed by it. I can see them giving him a flesh and blood body back because he died and thus can be resurrected into any form they choose to give him...I can see him returning in the same body he died in...either one would make sense from a story point of view. Which one would I prefer? I'm sad to say it doesn't really matter to me. The MK universe that I loved, and the Sub-Zero from that one, died and the new one doesn't really grab me.

It doesn't make business or pr sense to address these comments. They're not going to come out and say we screwed up. And anyway, some of us like him!

Thank you for staying focused.

Now, saying they made a long list of bad decisions is nothing but an opinion. Granted, an opinion many seem to share, and don't get me wrong, I find things in the new storyline to be bad decisions as well... But that's just my opinion. All in all, saying Cyber Subbie was a bad decision is just your opinion - an opinion I don't share.

I do think NRS cares about the storyline. Why else would they go through so much work to put it into the game if they didn't? Their Story Mode is the most elaborate one ever shown in any fighting game before, and I quite admire that. So to say they don't care about the story or saying they are just making something silly out of it is, in my opinion, rather disrespectful to those who have worked so hard on it.

As for Cyber Subbie, I still think they turned him cyborg for a reason. And I hope they will stick to that reason instead of turning him back to human, just because of a few loud-mouthed fans. If they keep changing storyline aspects because of what fans want, then that is when the storyline will collapse. They can't please everyone, and they shouldn't try to. Instead they should focus on making a great game with a great storyline and great gameplay.

That said, I am not saying they should ignore the fans, but they should still stick to their principles and show some balls. They are the ones making the game, not the fans.

Y'know what?

The animators worked hard on it. You can see their hard work. The "camera" work and the special effects and production values? All that looks and sounds great (with the exception of about two times when characters accidentally change costume in the middle of a scene), and that "the matches load in the background while the cutscenes play so there's never a wait between them" thing is very impressive.

But you cannot prove to me that the script writers DID work hard. If they did, it absolutely does not show.

Which is exactly what happened.

Exactly, that's precisely what went wrong with this game, and it happened before as the whole concept behind Armageddon, and possibly happened in Deception too depending on the truth behind certain rumors and how you feel about Zombie Liu Kang.

So what you guys say is they tried to please the fans with this game and changed the story aspects to fit what the fans wanted, and thus it collapsed?

Because that is what NM qouted from me and you both agreed on happened with this game.

Maybe you're right. Fans were whining for MK to go back to its roots, and it did, but instead of completely rebooting the series, NRS tried to connect the storyline. Maybe they shouldn't have tried to please the fans at all.