I like Cyber Sub, but i'd prefer Human Subby more. I hope he has his MK: D outfit(which is my favorite)

Just for the record, I didn't mean to sound egotistical like I was the one who dictates what a "story guy" is or anything. I knew the moment I posted it that some/most would see it as ego, as me trying to be like "I'm a story guy and you aren't".

The truth of the matter though is just this: I didn't know he literally meant the NRS writers and it's just a simple truth that every time someone uses the term "story guy" on this board, this is the context: "Could one of the story guys tell me what happened to character X in Armageddon?" or "I think blank killed blank in MK Trilogy but could one of the story guys confirm it?" I just thought that that was the, like, MKO ettiquite, the terminology for "people who answer these questions", and suddenly someone is asking for an opinion from "the story guys" and I see Jaded-Raven answer a question that, to my mind, was not directed at him at all and it made me do a double-take, okay?

Thanks for explaining, and I apologize for getting so defensive.
I misunderstood it as well, also thinking he meant the "story guys" of this forum and not the NRS crew, but oh well, what's done is done.

You read me like an open porn magazine.
[no sarcasm]

So what you are saying is that he faps while reading your posts? O.o

You went over the line now: No, it was just an alternative idiom for "You read me like an open book." with a sense of humor in it because knowing Espio872, he doesn't even do that anymore (fap while reading my posts).

Honestly, what backlash...?
Tons of characters have been hated or disliked, certainly far more than cyber Sub-Zero who was freaking awesome anyway.

True.
Compared to the hate Stryker got after MK3, Cyber Subbie is loved.

I dunno about that, people disliked Stryker in a "eww, I don't want to play as him, he's the worst character in this one" way, the same way that people would then think of Jarek in 4, Hsu Hao in 5, and Dairou and Darrius in 6...but nobody in 1995 ever accused those characters of ruining the game or the MK storyline just by existing. I suppose some have made that claim about Shujinko, though...

If people think Cyber Sub-Zero, or any character for that matter, is ruining the game, they should re-evaluate their priorities...

Spot on.


LOL, What?!
Cyrax had much more coherent and plausible story then, say Cyber Smoke (if his constant victimizing could be called that word). And exactly the fact that he was an open book allowed him seamlessly become part of the OIA / SF arc. There were never any contradiction that he wouldn't do that. And after his ending in Gold, that preceded Deadly Alliance for two years, it was only a natural development.


Truth. 100% distilled truth.
Also, I should add, that gamers in general will not care about WHAT Sub-Zero will be in the game as long as MK has some ninja-like guy who freeze things and dresses in blue. That is one of the reasons why I personally like to see Bi Han return as Sub-Zero, as much as unlikely that is.

If this were Street Fighter or Tekken we were talking about, I'd say playing to follow and enjoy the characters' stories is having your priorities out of order. But with Mortal Kombat it's perfectly natural and it's been the reason some of us are even into the series for almost 20 years now. And Sub-Zero is one of the most popular characters. So altering him into an extraordinarily undesirable form could certainly "ruin the game" for some and I believe has, based on the posts of some users.

For me personally though, like I said in my first post in the thread, it's hard to say just this one character ruins it when there's such a long list of bad things in story mode. It's all of those things combined that made it perhaps the most disappointing MK game I've ever bought. (I can't say "most disappointing one that I've ever played only because I rented Special Forces once.)

THIS. x 10,000

Especially since human Sub is still IN the damn game, and will almost certainly be in any sequel. OP responded to Boon's tweet by saying "well yeah but that's not the point"...I'd say it's a pretty substantial point.

So, you admit that for MK fans (and MK fans alone out of fighting games) it's ok, expected even, to completely throw all logic out the window and view the game strictly through a storyline-colored lens? I mean it's obvious you do, it's just funny to see "story guys" as you call yourselves so casually come out and admit it. No wonder the franchise sucked for years.

As for "undesirable form", some people said the same thing in MK3 when he went unmasked for the first time. If you're truly concerned with story, you should realize that the CHARACTER of Kuai Liang is the same whether he's a ninja, a cyber ninja, or wearing unexplained blue suspenders and spandex. At the end of the day...it's just different sprites. Furthermore I can guarantee you the blue (human) ninja will be back in the next game.

Also I should point out that IN-universe, there is nothing extra special about Sub-Zero that should make him "above" being cyberized. The only thing he has over Smoke in the real world is being a more popular character. The problem then is you want to have your cake and eat it too....there is no good in-universe justification for your out of universe preference, and if you're truly concerned with art and storytelling you should see that.

Funny, I seem to recall Kuai Liang's defining character trait in MK2 being "he spares his opponents, the only person he'll kill is the target he was hired to", not "he's on a ruthless quest to avenge his brother and will kill anyone who gets in his way."

Even before he becomes a robot, he's not the same character in personality and motivation that he used to be anymore.

Oh really?

Subbie to Reptile: "I could kill you...but that is not my purpose here today."

Besides, he didn't know about Scorpion in the original universe, unless you count the quasi-canon MK2 comic. (which I say quasi- only because Scorpion reveals himself and vows to protect Sub before the second tournament, which contradicts the game.) Who's to say he would've showed mercy to ol' Hanzo in MK2 if he had A: beat him and B: known that he had killed his brother? Personally, I really liked the twist of young Sub-Zero hunting Scorpion this time.

In any case, if MK9's version of Sub-Zero is already a totally different guy, then your faux-outrage over his character being destroyed by becoming a cyber ninja is even more unfounded.

Sub-Zero doesn't kill anyone in the game. Not one. He fights his way through to the one who murdered his brother, just like in MK2, though in MK2, he enters a tournament to do so while this MK has alot more storyline based around his quest. But kills anyone? Nope. He defeats alot, but we never get to see him kill anyone.
So I don't know where you got that from.

Someone was meant to be in that giant block of ice. So he at least killed an NPC (or Kratos, supposedly, on the PS3 version).

And he didn't seem to give two shits if Jax bled to death after Ermac blew up his arms. I suspect the MK2 version of Kuai probably would've helped Sonya carry him to the portal...though I obviously can't prove that. The point though is from his very first appearance, Kuai Liang was painted as a merciful and heroic figure but this game makes him look like a douche until AFTER he gets automated and is all like "Shao Kahn made me do horrible things, I must repent".

At any rate, MK2 never said a single word about Sub-Zero trying to avenge his brother. In fact, it AND UMK3 specificially say that when Scorpion and Sub-Zero encounter each other in the tournament, they let each other live and Scorpion even allies himself with Sub-Zero, which is clearly the exact opposite of what Kuai was about to do to Scorp in MK9 if he hadn't been interrupted by the cyborgs.

I just find the defence about him ludicrous. You'd swear he was a homicidal rampaging mass murderer with no conscience before being automated and stayed that way until Jax re-programmed him.

Nothing, bar his body, has been changed in this game. He's still Kuai Liang, still Sub-Zero, still a kick ass Lin Kuei. People are just complaining because god forbid Mortal Kombat starts to change. Personally I welcome it. I want to see what happens next with Sub Zero. I want to see if Kitana ever comes back from the Netherrealm with Sindel and Jade and tries to reclaim Edenia, if Mileena hasn't already made things more difficult with her new rule. I want to see what happens to the Lin Kuei now that Sektor is in charge, and I want to see what Raiden has to do now that half of his prized warriors are dead.

We don't know what to expect. Fantastic, amazing things can happen for any of the characters now that the slate's been wiped clean. Just accept the old canon is gone and move on. It was only a broken record with it's last relatively interesting storyline involving Onaga and (dare I say it) Shujinko, that timeline ended with all of it's deadweight uninspired characters like Kobra, Darrius and Taven and now we have a new one, with new situations, new character growth a vast potential of opportunities.

Don't like it? Lump it. But Mortal Kombat's moving on, it's taking risks, and quite frankly it has me excited about the series again. I've always been a fan of the characters and their stories and I personallly am waiting on baited breath for the next MK title.

Yes, yes, that's the defense that all the people who liked MK9 make, "endless potential", "new things can happen to the characters now" et cetera.

And it's true...but the exact same thing is true at the end of EVERY game. You can do anything you want to any character in a sequel that hasn't been made yet, no matter when that sequel is set. They didn't need a reboot to have "potential" or change characters or write out/kill off unpopular ones. (I bet they bring Kobra, Darrius, and Dairou back one day though, just to see if they can improve them like they did Stryker. Vogel apparently really likes Darrius, in fact...god knows why. I think it has something to do with the fact that he wanted him to be a jive-talkin' "cool black guy" like Sam Jackson in Pulp Fiction or the guy in Enter the Dragon who his alt costume was based on.)

Anyway, the point is there's "potential" at the end of every game, it's kind of meaningless to celebrate it. It's like saying "I know you had a bad day but I think this day was awesome because now that it's over, the sun can come up tomorrow and anything can happen!" The sun comes up every goddamn day. Unless you live in Alaska, I guess.

Leave and go to bed, come home from school to an interesting discussion about me fapping.... Anywho Zmoke, I figured that's what you meant...at least you're innovative haha.





lol you must be hot shit for me to be acting like that.

At least you're humble

[yes sarcasm]

Back on topic

I just hope they have both characters playable for their fans, I know it sucks not having a character you've learned to really like and they just cease to exist. I mean at least make them with a non-canon presence, like other fighters might do. There's no reason to throw away gameplay in a fighter and reinvent the wheel every game.

But I still think it's better to wipe the slate clean, start a fresh with a new direction and look forward to what comes next rather than re-hash old storylines and try drain more blood from a well past it stone.

What's wrong with being optimistic about the story? They re-winded it to the most integral parts of the MK story, changed it up (with some unfavourable changes, I will admitt) and are going down a new road alltogether. It's the start of a new timeline, how can anyone dismiss it just at the begining?

If anything, Earthrealm is now in a much worse condition than it could be for the battle with Shinnok. It's looking likely that Raiden's going to fuck up (again) after his foolish choices in the last game (unless he seriously cops the fuck on and deals with things a bit better this time...with his last two fighters...say no more), Shinnok now has Earth and Edenia's best fighters at his command now thanks to Quan Chi, and Outworld's probably going to be ruled by a psychotic tarkatan hybrid with a juvenile mentality. The realms are going to be in total dissaray, and if we're to go by refferences in various character's endings we still have Havik and his forces in the Chaos Realm, the mysterious lady in Jade's ending and Rain's eventual rise to the now empty throne of Edenia to consider too. Who knows what's going to happen? Not one of us has any guarantees about what's next, it's all guess work from here.

Personally I think it's a bit childish that people think MK is dead on the basis that some classic fighters had different outcomes this time around before the new timeline has even had the chance to show us what it's made of, Sub-Zero being a prime example of that. For all we know his story could become something much better than the last canon, in fact it could even result with Bi Han coming back as the next Sub-Zero in future instalments in a twist of faith to restore his now cybernetic little brother. It just looks like a very small minority of fans are throwing their toys out of the cot because things changes. It's like spitting out your food and walking out of the restaraunt when you've barely even tasted the appetizers.

What rehashing? The only danger of "rehashing" came from the fact that they made a retelling of games that already happened. They didn't have to do that at all. Armageddon could've ended with some people still alive and they could've made a normal sequel, doing new stuff with the characters without getting rid of the old stuff.

One thing I want to point out on the whole "they can't take fan suggestions too much or else it'll fall apart" Let me give you what I think is a definite example. Many fans were like "Oh Liu Kang should stop being Raiden's boy scout or something along those lines." NRS heard you... why they thought it was necessary to have 10 heroes die and become zombies just to make that one request happen I'll never know.