That's the biggest problem I have with the whole game. The people who wanted the "back to basics" reboot are the people who hardly cared about the story in the first place. They could have still made the game a huge nostalgia trip (Gameplay, characters) without having to resort to Back to the Future crap. Everyone could have been happy.

Casual fans don't give a shit about whether or not Sub-Zero is the Grandmaster of the Lin Kuei. They just want Sub-Zero. The amount of people who bought the game for the gameplay surely outweighs the amount of people who bought it because it was an MKT rehash.

Now what would be cool is if Bi Han's soul got split into his normal human self and Noob Saibot, making for a truly engaging battle against his pure evil self and his mortal form as a result of that soulnado vortex.

That would actually be interesting to see the actual Sub-Zero from Mythologies battling Shinnok once more and with the taint of his sins mostly separated from him and inside Noob, he could feel honor bound and a special family kinship once more for Kuai Liang.



I'd like to see Bi-Han helping Johnny, Sonya, Kai, and Raiden out, the main heroes could use an anti-hero in the mix.

I've never liked the idea of splitting Bi-Han into a Sub form and a Noob form and having them clash with each other because why would there be a conflict between them? Noob Saibot has no inner turmoil, he's not at war with himself deep down inside. He LOVES being who he is.

The opposite and natural enemy of Noob Saibot is not a Living Bi-Han. It's either Scorpion or Kuai Liang.

Tad bit of a generalisation there. I grew up enamoured with the old canon, it outweighed the gameplay a mile away for me and yet I personally welcomed the reboot with open arms. In fact I was never a serious player of MK, I only ever played it for it's character's and their worlds and dilemmas.

Don't get me wrong, this story started out on the wrong note altogether. It's a total deux-ex-machina on behalf of the writers to just go "oh no, everyone died, Raiden loses, goes back in time". It's execution was terrible and I wont sing praises for the writing staff to suddenly cop out of the old canon the way they did. It's also a bit of a slap in the face of the work and character of Tobias's view and dreams of the MK world by just snuffing it all out and tossing everything away in a very anti-climatic ending. There was too many loose ends they should have tied up before bringing that canon to a close, and I do think the old story was brilliant despite it's own inconsistancies and contradictions. It deserved a better ending than what it had and I'll be the first to admitt that. I honestly don't think the debate would be as bad if MK9 started off with a better foundation and Armageddon ended with a better finale.

To assume however that people who embrace the change aren't fans of the storyline is a bit dismissive though in fairness. Spider Man has had reboots. Superman has had reboots, so has Batman, Resident Evil, Wonder Woman, Xmen, Buffy...every cult following in Comic and Video Games has at one point had an origin re-telling and a new world has evolved from it. What's the difference? It doesn't devalue the series as a whole if it goes into a new era or transitions from something old into something new.

If we're to be honest, Deadly Alliance was the last decent Mortal Kombat game in terms of Storyline. Deception had it's saving graces with Mileena, Ermac, Noob Saibot, Scorpion, Raiden, Nightwolf and maybe even Jade and Sindel's storys, but even at that Deception was nowhere near the Storyline's best. Kahn was a clone that was killed, then the real Kahn returns, Goro's assumed dead but it turns out he's not and comes back (now loyal to Kahn again), Liu Kang was a Zombie, Kabal recruits two very bland new members of the Black Dragon to cause trouble and Tanya/Baraka/Smoke practically do the same thing they do in every game. Not to mention new characters like Shujinko, Darrius, Dairou and Hotaru that were generally ill-recieved by fans and lacked a substancial amount of likeability. The story began to run out of steam years ago, then Armageddon comes along (probably the lowest of the low in terms of a plot and story) and the canon's hope for a future was left to three very unpopular characters in the form of Taven, Daegon and Blaze.

Where else could it go? If you count MK4-MKA we had a whopping 23 characters that were introduced to the franchise that the fans generally didn't take very well to or pick up on, with some characters even being despised by developers. The team ran themselves into a dead end and it was starting to show. As much as I loved the old canon there was only so much life you could take from it before it became a whithered husk, and that's exactly what started to happen. Plot's left unexplored, stock character's built up like Darrius, Kobra, Mavado and Meat that had little to no character development, and more loose ends than a woolen mills.

They done the smartest thing they could re-starting the storyline again, it brought fresh life back to MK and rejuvenated a dying brand. I'd much rather have Sub-Zero as a cyborg, half of the Forces of Light dead in the NetherRealm and an actually exciting battle with Shinnok to look forward to than the same regurgitated plotlines and shitty characters being spewed forth like Mokap and Blaze.

Actually,Razor,I should disagree with you about Kuai Liang being the heroic figure in MK2.

See,it doesn't make sense for him to be one at THAT point of canon. Sure,he can spare the lives he shouldn't kill and be a good guy deep down in the soul,but he will kill the targets he is assigned to (Shang Tsung) or the man who killed his brother.(which makes sense,because,if he took Bi-Han's identity,it means,he loved and admired his brother and didn't know what kind of asshole his older brother was).

So him wanting revenge on Scorpion WILL MAKE SENSE,even in old canon.I just don't understand how Subbie forgave Scorpion for what he did to his brother and they became good buddies until MK4,it doesn't make logical sense at all (unless Raiden or someone persuades him WHY Scorpion did that).

And being Lin Kuei all his life,Sub-Zero CANNOT BE heroic figure,until he realizes the wrongs of clan and leaves and decides to change for good.But that is not until MK3.

So him AT LEAST beating Ermac and saving Sonya from the same fate as Jax I think is enough for a Lin Kuei assassin,especially if he sees them the first time,why should he care? He is assassin for crying out loud. At least it makes sense for me. (but that retcon of Sub-Zero brothers' assassination mission of Shang Tsung doesn't make justice to them,I must say)

Just as many different places as where it can go now, just without the retcons and erasing. And it's foolish of you to judge otherwise based solely on the new characters they introduced and how much you liked or didn't like them. Especially considering most of those characters will inevitably be re-introduced in the new timeline anyway.
The reboot genuinely did not open any new avenues, those avenues were already there. New avenues would be if they created some new archvillains trying to take over the universe. But no, all it did was bring back some avenues we've already fucking seen, like the fact that now we'll have to relive a version of Shinnok and Quan Chi trying to conquer the universe together, and Onaga coming back from the dead, and someone trying to collect the Kamidogus...oh, but some characters are zombies or good or evil this time and they weren't the first time...that changes everything! Yeaaaahhh...not so much.

But is that not exactly what your doing now with Cyber Sub-Zero?

It's his first appearance as a cyborg, and people are losing it and demanding he goes back to being a ninja. As a cyborg he's had just as much of a run as the likes of Kobra, or Ashrah for that matter. Fair enough he has the advantage in the fact that he's been around in some form or another a lot longer than they have, but to slam Cyborg Sub-Zero before he's even had the chance to develop is no worse than slamming Nitara or Jarek. And as I mentioned earlier, nothing is guaranteed bar the fact Shinnok plans to invade. We're not guaranteed Onaga will come back from the grave, we're not guaranteed Shujinko will collect the Kamidogu, we're guaranteed nothing. I'm not asking you to like the story since it's clear you've your mind made up about the franchise from the result of one game, I just think it's unfortunate there are players like yourself who have followed the games up to this point that are walking away because the story changed along with it's characters. That's life, things change, especially in regards to fictional universes and franchises. It just comes across like there's a lot of over reacting going on within the community and the comical thing is that it's literally from one game. A franchise that has been around for nearly twenty years re-invents itself and a lot of devoted fans walk away when the changes don't suit them. Just comes across as comical to me. No disrespect intended but I don't see what the problem is at all, especially when I hear fans are happy to stick to a canon where the likes of Meat, Mokap, and Hsu Hao are rampant and the developers are happy to kill them off, but an iconic face of the franchise gets a different body in this new time line and people freak out.

Sub-Zero is not a new character. It's a retcon of an old character. You know that full well.

Well, considering they already killed him off and just made him into a zombie.. (seriously that's another thing that's stupid. A cyber zombie? That makes no sense in any fantasy, if that's his soul it should have had his human appearance) Sub-Zero is far too iconic as a human ninja to just keep a cyborg, if they have only cyber Sub-Zero and no human Sub-Zero, there will be a huge backlash.

I would've preferred the 'reboot' happen a couple years after MKA with a generation shift, Much like SCV, but with less returning characters. (Or immediately after, but still with lots of death)

basically starts from how the realm is affected by the great battle, failing to maintain stability, Shinnok's return, and the forces of light failing to rebuild itself while the darkness remains stronger and seizing the opportunity.


That's an idea I've been developing in my mind for an alternative roster...

As stated. But a lot of characters were retconned in this game. Kitana's almost a completely different person, as are a lot of fan favourites. You don't hear Kitana or Mileena fans walking away from the franchise though just because they've had alterations to their background.

And before someone whips up the "but Sub-Zero is more important" card, don't even start. Both of those girls had a legendary backstory which was widely embraced and adored within the community from the moment they debuted in MK2 that continued all the way to Armageddon, it was a story that didn't need to change at all. Yet their fans have accepted it, we've had to. We may not like what MK9 has done with their relationship but we've no authority to rule out what can potentially happen with them in MK10. Exact same logic applies to Sub-Zero.

Actually I have seen one or two. And I've seen a LOT of people complain about what they did to those two without the "leaving the franchise" part, just as loudly and as numerous as the people complaining about Cyber-Sub. You could only honestly believe "their fans have accepted it" if you haven't been paying attention to this board at all since May.

You can still accept something even if it's reluctant, btw. Like having to do Jury Duty, or developing a Colesore.

Do I miss their old story? Yeah, of course I do. It was stupid to change it.

Am I gonna stop following Mortal Kombat just because they (amongst many others) we're retconned? No. I might not agree with their choice to change Kitana and Mileena's origins but I'd be a stubborn fool to just abandon a series or my favourite characters just because they're trying new things. For all we know, Kitana may never reclaim Edenia. Sindel could stay dead, Mileena might rule Outworld forever. Things could take a total u-turn from the last canon. But I'm not going to shoot it down just because it's different.

My point exactly about Cyber Sub-Zero, he's going down a different route and clearly there are fans that are unhappy about it just as there are fans annoyed about Kitana/Mileena, but he's not the only one who's experienced a change in circumstances and origin in this story. To rule outa future for him just because fans don't like the change is childish.

The old canon's been done, we know how that ended. Bring on the change.

I second this.

That's not my reason for "shooting down" anything in MK9 and I've said so a million times before.
It's not about "different". It's about "bad".

What on Earth are you on about? I'm sure tons of people ASKED for Cyber Sub-Zero in the first place.

That's pretty much the exact opposite of what the board was like in the months after E3 when everybody was discussing the "someone who wasn't a cyberninja will be" rumor. I mean were you here for that? Surely you saw the same threads I did. I'm hardpressed to remember anybody posting ANY positive reaction towards the idea, outside of people jokingly suggesting it should be a non-Lin Kuei character, in particular Stryker turned into a parody of Robocop.
For the most part it was the verbal equivalent of rioting in the streets, NOBODY wanted a cyborg Sub-Zero at the time outside of one or two really weird Bi-Han fans who were convinced that if Kuai became a robot, it would mean their favorite Sub-Zero wouldn't be killed and become Noob.
It was only a year ago, surely I can't be the only damn person who remembers this. I wonder how many pages back you'd have to go to find all the threads from E3 until the game's release that were about the possibility of Cyber-Sub.

Well clearly what's bad and good is defined by the fan in particular. I like the change for Sub-Zero, as do other fans, whilst there's yourself and the other side of the community who disagrees with the change.

Bear in mind though what you define as "bad" isn't an absolute. Not that you suggested it was, but there are fans who like the fact Sub-Zero is a cyborg in this timeline. I can see a lot of fan-favourites (in particular the likes of Cyrax, Ermac, Reptile, Noob or any other character who didnt end up in the Nether Realm) going through radical changes in the next few games provided NRS actually try develop all of their roster into substantial characters with the appropriate character depth necessary for the new timeline. There'd be nothing worse than a new timeline with the same old mistakes, or worse yet, a new timeline where character's are forever stuck as lackeys (I'll personally feel very pissed off if Reptile or Baraka stay as the subserviant punchbag lackies for the next few games. )

That's nice.

I'm just telling Zentile he's wrong. It may have grown on people, and that's fine I suppose, I'm just saying as a matter of historical accuracy, and this can be confirmed by searching because the threads all still exist, that no one was asking for it before it happened, they were almost unanimously pleading for it not to. Not on MKO anyway, I wouldn't know what the discussion was like on other boards.

How much reactions have people changed? I mean, I still see people clamoring over NRS's twitter accounts begging for the return of Human Sub-Zero in the next game.

And that's nice too. But does it matter what this site was like? There were probably a lot of other people who wanted him. Just because this site went into a frenzy about it doesn't mean that NO ONE was asking for him.



A good amount of people on this site. I don't know the statistics, but I saw the changes... Doesn't matter the amount of people that changed, there was still change.

True. There are several vocal CSZ fans now but I think their numbers aren't quite as big as they make it sound.

It doesn't help that he stole most of his moves from Kung Lao and Cyrax and he's apparently not very high tier, so it's not like his gameplay would be missed much by either the casuals or the gameplay/tourney crowd if he was left out of the next one. I actually do like those two or three really fancy spinkicks he's got in his regular attacks though. Maybe they could give them to Frost?

How exactly did he stole moves again when he was designed to have those moves specifically, despite that they too appear in other character's move list? That's not necessarily stealing, that's just poor development, despite that his move set, I do not find anything to complain about. And I do ask this becuase for a person going into character design and all that, I would like to know how developing a character's move set to where they have similar moves qualifies for stealing?

I would love that. But I thought Scorpion was the Anti-Hero, but they kinda made him like "Evil by force" due to Scorpion being Quan Chi's little bitch boy
I imagine Bi-Han looking like a "2-Face" kind of character...