Back to the soul energy quickly. Why couldn't you be able to recharge a soul? Let's say that Cyber Sub-Zero became less soulsome after the automation and stayed a cyborg after zombification only because of his lack of a soul. But then, Raiden - or Fujin, who is probably wiser, would recharge Sub-Zero's soul with a transcendental force. Now Sub-Zero is capable of departing his metal body and come to Earth in his real form.

What you're describing would be an act of resurrection or reincarnation.

Raiden has this power, but only over souls that are in Heaven, i.e. Johnny Cage in MK4.

Only Quan Chi and Shinnok can resurrect the dead who've gone to Hell, because they rule Hell.

Okay. That is of course, if it will stay untouched by the retcon button. The reason why Kuai Liang remained in his cyborg form after death still makes one wonder. Either 1) NRS has greater plans for Cysuze, 2) they didn't care about it [when they didn't notice Stryker's zombie costume swaps either] or 3) there is a semi proper explanation to it. Well, Kabal didn't change either so I suppose NeRdS won't want to explain this.

The most likely answer is just that the dead look however they looked the moment they died. Otherwise, yeah, Kabal wouldn't have his mask and Jax wouldn't have his arms either.

That's actually a pretty good point.

If Cyber Subbie should return as human, then Kabal should return without being all burned up and Jax should get his normal arms back. It would only make sense.

Personally, I hope neither of these things will happen though.

Yeah, that may be perhaps the only reason and it's the most obvious too. It's just one of the cluster of plotholes in MK2011.
I watched the Raiden chapter. It's funny how Quan Chi says "You have mere hours." as if he were from Earth to which the word 'hour' is based on. As for why Quan Chi got the souls of Earthrealm warriors as discussed earlier, Quan Chi says that they are "Shao Kahn's payment for Netherrealm's allegiance." so Shao Kahn collected them (mainly) from the Church before. It's also funny how Cysuze's suit was also "zombified" when it shouldn't be organic, it was also heavily scratched (did Quan Cheese torture them?). Also, Quan Cheese referred to the Elder Gods as "toothless" like did Shao Kahn in the original timeline (intro).

Also among the plotholes was Raiden healing Jax early on in the story, but not lifting a finger to save Kitana later on, there's so many blatantly obvious plot holes that I really don't see them having an issue with making Sub-Zero human and leaving Kabal and Jax as they are before death.

Maybe time is the same in all the realms of MK. I mean, they all speak English, so maybe language isn't the only thing shared between the realms.

Shao Kahn gathering the souls after their deaths is completely plausible. Maybe he didn't go there personally (which he wouldn't be able to), but the souls could be released from the bodies after their deaths and thus be caught through means of sorcery. I'd believe Kahn would be powerful enough for that, especially with Quan Chi's help.

As for Cyber Subbie being all scratched up... If you look at the other warriors, they all appear in their fully damaged form and then put a zombified look on them as well. I'd guess it's merely because NRS wanted them to look like zombies, nothing more. I wouldn't really think more about it.



So what you are saying is that plotholes are alright? That these things are acceptable?

No, I'm not. My point that I'm making is that the glaring plot holes are obvious and yet they were left in, so I don't see them being above having further plot holes. I have never and will never defend plot holes, I've pointed out many, it would be ignorant hypocrisy to promote further plot holes. I was a writer at one time, logic and consistency is very important to me.


I said nothing about hoping they do it or don't do it, I really just want all the characters playable next game and the MK4 cast + Havik, Drahmin and Sareena in the next. I'm mostly following it for the gameplay now.

Except that there's no scene where this ever happens and there's no time when it could've happened off-screen because we see everything that happens in the church. The only time the camera cuts away from the church is when Raiden and Liu are talking to the Elder Gods, and when it cuts back, Nightwolf and Sindel are still fighting, those two and Kitana haven't died yet.

So when would Kahn have gotten these souls that we didn't see it happen?

Now, I'll give you that maybe he owns the souls of anyone who dies in Outworld because that's his realm - which covers Kung Lao's death. And you could then say that during the merger, because Earth is becoming part of Outworld, he gains power over people who die on Earth too - which would fit with the original MK3 saying the Elder Gods tried to stop Raiden from fighting Kahn during the merger because he's not an Outworld god and Earth was becoming part of Outworld. There's just one very big, very glaring problem with that:
He couldn't have had a spell over Earthrealm, or any authority on Earthrealm yet, because it's very important to the last scene of Story Mode that Kahn he hasn't BEEN to Earthrealm yet and the merger hasn't started yet until he walks through the portal. That's the whole reason the Elder Gods wait until he walks through to show up and help Raiden out.

So the story of MK9 seems to not just contradict the original MK3, which said the merger began the moment the invasion did, but it contradicts ITSELF by giving Kahn power over Earth's souls before he's even there.

How in the world is that lazy story design? They were changing events on "what if this happened instead of that?" Sure, the way that made him turn into a cyborg was a bit odd, as in, having Raiden and Smoke do nothing, but having him change into a cyborg isn't lazy story design. That's all the change they wanted to put in.

And with what you're saying, if Sub-Zero didn't become a cyborg, you also saying that Smoke shouldn't be one if they had that story remain?

Well, what I read was that because they alreayd made plotholes, then making a few more would be alright. And I rather disagree with that.

And if you want all character to appear, then do you not accept Cyber Sub-Zero as being the Sub-Zero represented in the next game? Or do you want a Human Subbie as well?

And if that's the case, would you want the same for Smoke, Sektor and Cyrax as well? Having both cyborg and human forms available for gameplay? And what about Jax, should he be with cyborg arms and with human arms as two seperate characters as well? How about Bi-Han as his human Subbie form and his Noob form?

The point I am trying to make is that people usually only want things to be the way they want it to be, and they are willing to see through fingers with some "plotholes" as long it fits them, whilst others are looked at as being completely unacceptable.

To say one thing is alright while another thing like it isn't...
That's called hypocrisy, by the way.

The time and language issues are probably justified by "But other scifi series do that too!". If you listen to the fighting taunts of the Lin Kuei warriors or read the Asian text written on the walls, you'll notice that other languages are involved too. There are also some epitaphs on the walls of some historic structures as seen in Armageddon (Botan Jungle). Of course Quan Chi's knowledge could be explained by various ways, let's just say he was an exchange student in Earthrealm in 1500 A.D. I believe Espio872 meant that the ways are endless for Human Sub-Zero's return.
Languages:
-English
-Elder God lingo
-Gibberish
-Chinese
-Japanese
-Wizard talk
-Backwards English

It was Sindel who killed them. An empowered Sindel. And she used a spell on Kitana to kill her. Maybe that's how Shao Kahn could claim their souls - using Sindel as a tool to do so.

Are you trying to argue with me about it? I already said that is not what I was getting at, you're disagreeing with someone who isn't disagreeing with you, for essentially nothing.

I already know it would be hypocrisy, you're not telling me anything I don't already know. I mentioned it in my above post. Also, this is a fighting game, most fighters keep a stable and consistent roster, there is nothing gained from excluding unique gameplay and characters over a story that isn't even standing on a strong foundation anyway.


I'm going to repeat myself, EVERY character from the last game should be in the next game that includes human subbie and cyber subbie, when I said everyone from this game, Everyone means everyone, it's kind of pointless and redundant to repeat myself by saying I want every character from this game plus Sheeva and Quan Chi....when they fall under the category of everyone from this game.

But that's not even close to how soul stealing works in the MK universe. We specifically see Sindel only suck the energy out of Kitana, not any of the others. She starts on Nightwolf a little but he died by his own hand, not Sindel's.

And Kitana doesn't even die from it, she dies AFTER Sindel does.

Argue, no, but I would like to know how far you want to take this "want all characters". To me, Sub-Zero is one character. Right now, he is a cyborg. I do not see Cyborg Sub-Zero as another character from Human Sub-Zero. They are two forms of the same character.

And thus I ask if it counts for all those other characters I mentioned which you have yet to answer.

Who are you to define what ways there are for claiming the souls of others in MK? You can only go by what we have seen in the past games, but that doesn't mean that there aren't more ways to claim them.

Maybe Sindel was used as a tool, maybe a pact between Kahn and Quan Chi was more than enough to claim them, or maybe there's a whole third way. Either way, it was NRS' decision that it would be an availability, and they can do that because it is THEIR game, it is THEIR world.

I did answer it. I'lll say it in a more condensed format.


Was Cyber Smoke in the this game? The answer is no

Was Human Sektor and Cyrax in this game? Yes


Was Human Sub-Zero and CSZ in this game? Yes

So that should answer your question.

I'm going to repeat myself, everyone who was in this game should be in the next game as playable.

Okay, so to make things clear - when you say every character, you actually mean every form the characters are shown as in the game.

It sure is a bit odd, taking into account that the Earthrealm warriors still managed to beat all the cyborgs in the Church without any death penalties. It would have been wiser to protect Sub-Zero from Raiden's view because first of all it would have been great entertainment for the Koliseum and two: the Lin Kuei and Outworld wouldn't have made an alliance after the LK's unpleasant interruption.

The soul issue is just another hole in the great Swiss cheese that has holes (and mice). Clearly it's inexplicable even by NRS standards.

Another thing that came to my mind after watching the outro; it is certainly a possibility that Liu Kang didn't die. After seeing this many controversies, this Liu Kang's survival would probably be one of the least controversial of them, even if he closed his eyes (for boredom). Raiden took Liu Kang with Cage and Sonya in the ending into his teleport.

hey il give credit were credit is due, cyber sub has an awesome fighting style. But as someone said thats a minor thing to look at.

anyway it doesn't seem like we will be getting a new mk anytime soon, so everything for the next game is just speculation.

Liu's pretty clearly not moving or breathing anymore after he gives his last words and closes his eyes.



Raiden says in the last scene before they teleport off, "Come, let us tend the fallen." He took Liu's body with them because they're going to give all the dead characters proper burials.

But changing the rules of your own universe, having complicated shit like spells and pacts happen off-screen without telling the audience that it has happened off-screen is the very definition of poor writing.

That's what poor writing IS, when the audience can't fucking follow what's going on because it makes no damned sense. How can you defend that? Why would you come up with excuses for it, why not just admit the plothole is there instead of pretending it's not?
There's NOTHING given to us the audience, in this story or in any previous MK story, that could possibly explain how Shao Kahn got the souls of the characters who died in the church and gave them to Quan Chi. There just isn't. That is a stone cold fact.

I find it a bit confusing that people say it's their game and their story as if that negates any illogical, unexplained, or ridiculous retcon, plot hole or other poor writing issue, I don't think it does.

It has never gone over well in any media whether it's a game, movie, or book, I don't see why MK should be the exception.

I thought of this because similar situations have been met in different stories before as well. In The Expendables (2010), there was this evil henchman Paine (presented by a great wrestler) who fought against Toll Road (presented by an UFC champion) from the good guys with the fisherman's hat on in the final action scene: Toll Road beat him brutally, burned him and watched him burn in the ground. Soon the whole mansion area was exploded too. Apparently, Paine survived though: he has been confirmed to be in The Expendables 2.

(Click image for video, 2:34 - 4:08 is the fight)

Mortal Kombat (2011) is also my game, I think, because I have a copy of it. Well, at least Mortal Kombat has got the funding right; something radical had to be done in order to continue the series. This was its cost it seems. (Passion towards the series < Milking = Survival)