Sub-Zero_7th Wrote:
So for those that ask why Sub-Zero can't more or less do the kinds of things he did in the old timeline as a cyborg, it has to do with the journey of the character and what he's all about.
So for those that ask why Sub-Zero can't more or less do the kinds of things he did in the old timeline as a cyborg, it has to do with the journey of the character and what he's all about.
His journey wouldn't suffer that much even if Kuai Liang stays a cyborg. One psychological angle could be easily traded for another one. In example of Sektor and CSZ fighting: evil machine without a heart and mercy versus cyborg, who hasn't abandoned his humanity even if he is not human now. Here is your tragedy, here is your underlying themes, symbolism and psychological stuff. Being human without being one. And I dare to say Kuai Liang in this situation becomes twice as badass as he was in the old canon.
Scar_Subby Wrote:
Sub-Zero becoming Cyber also just doesn't make sense to me,
Sub-Zero becoming Cyber also just doesn't make sense to me,
Ok, but why it shouldn't make sense for everyone else? Not everyone as...should I say...biased as you are.
Scar_Subby Wrote:
so all of the people who diss Sub-Zero for not caring about Smoke, well at least he fought with Smoke to give him a chance.
so all of the people who diss Sub-Zero for not caring about Smoke, well at least he fought with Smoke to give him a chance.
And then he completely forgot about his existence for several years, until Smoke reappeared alongside his brother-demon.
Scar_Subby Wrote:
and I guess the main reason is because Smoke is weaker than him.
and I guess the main reason is because Smoke is weaker than him.
Since when?
We never have any powercharts of MK characters. Though maybe it was true in the old canon, since Smoke human never had any defined power of his own back then. However in MK9 he has the whole new slew of abilites of his own, basically he controls smoke and air like Sub-Zeros control ice, so whether he is still weaker then Kuai Liang in the new timeline is up to debate.
Scar_Subby Wrote:
So now Cyber Sub-Zero not only looks different, and fights differently but he was also not even given a chance to fight for what is righfully his in his humanity whereas in the old continuity that's exactly what saved him he was stronger and ended up escaping the Lin Kuei because of his humanity. It was just bad shit on NRS part I'm sorry.
So now Cyber Sub-Zero not only looks different, and fights differently but he was also not even given a chance to fight for what is righfully his in his humanity whereas in the old continuity that's exactly what saved him he was stronger and ended up escaping the Lin Kuei because of his humanity. It was just bad shit on NRS part I'm sorry.
Excluding commas from your sentence is just as bad shit as writing a bad story. Since people could barely understand what the heck are you trying to say.
The thing is: Kuai Liang still have his humanity even as a cyborg. It was actually a pivotal point of his chapter, where he fought for the good guys, even after being deformed by transformation into machine.
Scar_Subby Wrote:
Also to people saying Cyber Subz is more than welcome now, look at his popularity on the official website especially compared to human subz and you will see who is more favored numbers don't lie.
Also to people saying Cyber Subz is more than welcome now, look at his popularity on the official website especially compared to human subz and you will see who is more favored numbers don't lie.
Use your commas, Luke!!
Numbers? Eh...? Numbers could lie actually.
Espio872 Wrote:
Also among the plotholes was Raiden healing Jax early on in the story, but not lifting a finger to save Kitana later on, there's so many blatantly obvious plot holes that I really don't see them having an issue with making Sub-Zero human and leaving Kabal and Jax as they are before death.
Probably not plothole.
Also among the plotholes was Raiden healing Jax early on in the story, but not lifting a finger to save Kitana later on, there's so many blatantly obvious plot holes that I really don't see them having an issue with making Sub-Zero human and leaving Kabal and Jax as they are before death.
Probably not plothole.
Sindel was using something like soul or life energy drain on Kitana.
So, Raiden could probably heal non-critical damage and simple wounds, but can he recreate live energy or soul to replace ones that were drained?
RazorsEdge701 Wrote:
So when would Kahn have gotten these souls that we didn't see it happen?
So when would Kahn have gotten these souls that we didn't see it happen?
This could've benn cut from the final script. Like Shaolin attack sequence and replacing of Jax's arms. It's not a justification for plotholes obviously, but it could give an idea why those important elements were excluded from the final verison of the story mode.
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RazorsEdge701 Wrote:
But changing the rules of your own universe, having complicated shit like spells and pacts happen off-screen without telling the audience that it has happened off-screen is the very definition of poor writing.
That's what poor writing IS, when the audience can't fucking follow what's going on because it makes no damned sense. How can you defend that? Why would you come up with excuses for it, why not just admit the plothole is there instead of pretending it's not?
There's NOTHING given to us the audience, in this story or in any previous MK story, that could possibly explain how Shao Kahn got the souls of the characters who died in the church and gave them to Quan Chi. There just isn't. That is a stone cold fact.
Jaded-Raven Wrote:
Who are you to define what ways there are for claiming the souls of others in MK? You can only go by what we have seen in the past games, but that doesn't mean that there aren't more ways to claim them.
Maybe Sindel was used as a tool, maybe a pact between Kahn and Quan Chi was more than enough to claim them, or maybe there's a whole third way. Either way, it was NRS' decision that it would be an availability, and they can do that because it is THEIR game, it is THEIR world.
Who are you to define what ways there are for claiming the souls of others in MK? You can only go by what we have seen in the past games, but that doesn't mean that there aren't more ways to claim them.
Maybe Sindel was used as a tool, maybe a pact between Kahn and Quan Chi was more than enough to claim them, or maybe there's a whole third way. Either way, it was NRS' decision that it would be an availability, and they can do that because it is THEIR game, it is THEIR world.
But changing the rules of your own universe, having complicated shit like spells and pacts happen off-screen without telling the audience that it has happened off-screen is the very definition of poor writing.
That's what poor writing IS, when the audience can't fucking follow what's going on because it makes no damned sense. How can you defend that? Why would you come up with excuses for it, why not just admit the plothole is there instead of pretending it's not?
There's NOTHING given to us the audience, in this story or in any previous MK story, that could possibly explain how Shao Kahn got the souls of the characters who died in the church and gave them to Quan Chi. There just isn't. That is a stone cold fact.
I agree that there are indeed major plotholes and retcons in this storyline that are yet to be explained. Many of them I disagree with, others I simply wish to have explained. Either way, I accept the story for what it is. I defend it, because in general, I like the storyline, poor writing or not.
The things I would like to have explained by NRS:
- Why it was retconned that Kitana meeting Mileena for the first time was during the Outworld tournament - and the way Kitana found out about her Edenian heritage.
- Why Raiden chose to rescue Smoke and not Sub-Zero when the Lin Kuei attempts kidnapping them.
- How Quan Chi was able to claim the souls of the fallen warriors.
- Why it was retconned that Sheeva was no longer Sindel's bodyguard.
- Why Quan Chi had so much spotlight and was given most of Shang Tsung's former role.
- Why Raiden was able to heal Jax, but not Liu Kang, or for that matter, Kitana.
As for Cyber Sub-Zero, it was clearly explained and NOT a plothole how he came to be, and thus I accept it. And sure, because I find Cyber Subbie looking awesome and being fun to play with just helps me accept it. However, I do not see him being a cyborg as a hinderance to become as great as his former self in the old timeline. Being a cyborg and to struggle with that everyday from now on... I can see potential in that.
Espio872 Wrote:
I find it a bit confusing that people say it's their game and their story as if that negates any illogical, unexplained, or ridiculous retcon, plot hole or other poor writing issue, I don't think it does.
It has never gone over well in any media whether it's a game, movie, or book, I don't see why MK should be the exception.
I find it a bit confusing that people say it's their game and their story as if that negates any illogical, unexplained, or ridiculous retcon, plot hole or other poor writing issue, I don't think it does.
It has never gone over well in any media whether it's a game, movie, or book, I don't see why MK should be the exception.
Well, it does negate all those things. It's not a positive thing when we curious fans would like to have some things explained to us, but in the end, that's the truth. NRS can do whatever they want with Mortal Kombat, because it is theirs to do so.
Some fans, however, seem to think that MK is theirs and if things aren't going the way they want it to go, then they feel betrayed, as if something was taken from them... something that wasn't theirs to begin with.
Wow.
All I'm going to say further on the subject is that's your opinion so I guess you could say it negates those faults in your view, certainly not mine.
That's not even an argument, it's absurd, instead of providing a rebuttal, your response is, "faults are irrelevant".
In what quality writing world?
Even if I don't like something, I can acknowledge if it was good writing, like for example, I hated that Sheeva died off screen in DA, but at least it was well written, made sense and wasn't nonsensical.
Nobody's acting like they own the series and lay claim to the series, that's not even remotely the case.
All I'm going to say further on the subject is that's your opinion so I guess you could say it negates those faults in your view, certainly not mine.
That's not even an argument, it's absurd, instead of providing a rebuttal, your response is, "faults are irrelevant".
In what quality writing world?
Even if I don't like something, I can acknowledge if it was good writing, like for example, I hated that Sheeva died off screen in DA, but at least it was well written, made sense and wasn't nonsensical.
Nobody's acting like they own the series and lay claim to the series, that's not even remotely the case.
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Espio872 Wrote:
Wow.
All I'm going to say further on the subject is that's your opinion so I guess you could say it negates those faults in your view, certainly not mine.
That's not even an argument, it's absurd, instead of providing a rebuttal, your response is, "faults are irrelevant".
In what quality writing world?
Even if I don't like something, I can acknowledge if it was good writing, like for example, I hated that Sheeva died off screen in DA, but at least it was well written, made sense and wasn't nonsensical.
Wow.
All I'm going to say further on the subject is that's your opinion so I guess you could say it negates those faults in your view, certainly not mine.
That's not even an argument, it's absurd, instead of providing a rebuttal, your response is, "faults are irrelevant".
In what quality writing world?
Even if I don't like something, I can acknowledge if it was good writing, like for example, I hated that Sheeva died off screen in DA, but at least it was well written, made sense and wasn't nonsensical.
I don't think you read my post right, or maybe I didn't explain myself clearly enough.
I never said that faults are irrelevant. Because there are indeed faults in the new MK, like the ones I stated above, some things gone unexplained, plotholes if you will. However, some fans present certain things as faults when in reality they aren't faults, just some things the fans dislike.
And that's how some fans try to make Cyber Subbie as. A fault, when in fact his very existence is quite clearly made out in the storyline and is thus NOT a fault, not a plothole, not gone unexplained.
As for the plotholes... Yes, it is bad writing. But NRS doesn't have to defend it in any way if they don't want to. It will be to the fans dismay, sure, but as said - it is their product, they can do with it what they want. That's not an opinion, that's a truth. You may not like it, but that's the way it is.
If I bake a cake and choose not to put frosting on it, then that is my choice and I am in my full right not to do so, because it is my cake. Many might want to have frosting on it and call me bad at cake-making for not putting frosting on it, but if I don't want to put frosting on it, then there's nothing anyone can do about it... It is MY cake. And then people can choose to either eat it or not.
Personally, I of course hope that they will explain these things so we won't keep wondering why they did what they did.
@Red Surmac Sindel didn't take her soul though, Nightwolf interrupted her from doing so, Kitana was injured like Jax, he was messed up to where he couldn't walk on his own or defend himself( like Kitana). Raiden didn't even try to do anything and if he couldn't do it, they could have explained why. Liu Kang didn't even say, "Raiden use your powers to heal her! Save Kitana!" Liu Kang was present when Raiden healed Jax, so not only did Raiden not even try, Liu Kang didn't even question him not doing anything either.
An example of good writing from Yu Yu Hakusho, Koenma used his Mafukken spell to resurrect a dead child, it required hundreds of years of the overseer of the universe's stored spirit energy to ressurect the dead child, so when it came time to save someone else, it was explained that he had no further energy to do so, they didn't just say nothing and leave it up in the air, they explained why he couldn't do it, how he was able to do it in the first place etc.
I don't think it had to be a one or the other deal, solid story and great gameplay together, we can always hope for the future I guess. Perhaps lack of time was a factor as well. I mean at least the gameplay's solid.
An example of good writing from Yu Yu Hakusho, Koenma used his Mafukken spell to resurrect a dead child, it required hundreds of years of the overseer of the universe's stored spirit energy to ressurect the dead child, so when it came time to save someone else, it was explained that he had no further energy to do so, they didn't just say nothing and leave it up in the air, they explained why he couldn't do it, how he was able to do it in the first place etc.
Zmoke Wrote:
I thought of this because similar situations have been met in different stories before as well. In The Expendables (2010), there was this evil henchman Paine (presented by a great wrestler) who fought against Toll Road (presented by an UFC champion) from the good guys with the fisherman's hat on in the final action scene: Toll Road beat him brutally, burned him and watched him burn in the ground. Soon the whole mansion area was exploded too. Apparently, Paine survived though: he has been confirmed to be in The Expendables 2.
(Click image for video, 2:34 - 4:08 is the fight)
Mortal Kombat (2011) is also my game, I think, because I have a copy of it. Well, at least Mortal Kombat has got the funding right; something radical had to be done in order to continue the series. This was its cost it seems. (Passion towards the series < Milking = Survival)
RazorsEdge701 Wrote:
Liu's pretty clearly not moving or breathing anymore after he gives his last words and closes his eyes.
Raiden says in the last scene before they teleport off, "Come, let us tend the fallen." He took Liu's body with them because they're going to give all the dead characters proper burials.
Liu's pretty clearly not moving or breathing anymore after he gives his last words and closes his eyes.
Zmoke Wrote:
Raiden took Liu Kang with Cage and Sonya in the ending into his teleport.
Raiden took Liu Kang with Cage and Sonya in the ending into his teleport.
Raiden says in the last scene before they teleport off, "Come, let us tend the fallen." He took Liu's body with them because they're going to give all the dead characters proper burials.
I thought of this because similar situations have been met in different stories before as well. In The Expendables (2010), there was this evil henchman Paine (presented by a great wrestler) who fought against Toll Road (presented by an UFC champion) from the good guys with the fisherman's hat on in the final action scene: Toll Road beat him brutally, burned him and watched him burn in the ground. Soon the whole mansion area was exploded too. Apparently, Paine survived though: he has been confirmed to be in The Expendables 2.
Espio872 Wrote:
I find it a bit confusing that people say it's their game and their story as if that negates any illogical, unexplained, or ridiculous retcon, plot hole or other poor writing issue, I don't think it does.
It has never gone over well in any media whether it's a game, movie, or book, I don't see why MK should be the exception.
I find it a bit confusing that people say it's their game and their story as if that negates any illogical, unexplained, or ridiculous retcon, plot hole or other poor writing issue, I don't think it does.
It has never gone over well in any media whether it's a game, movie, or book, I don't see why MK should be the exception.
Mortal Kombat (2011) is also my game, I think, because I have a copy of it. Well, at least Mortal Kombat has got the funding right; something radical had to be done in order to continue the series. This was its cost it seems. (Passion towards the series < Milking = Survival)
I don't think it had to be a one or the other deal, solid story and great gameplay together, we can always hope for the future I guess. Perhaps lack of time was a factor as well. I mean at least the gameplay's solid.
Espio872 Wrote:
I don't think it had to be a one or the other deal, solid story and great gameplay together, we can always hope for the future I guess. Perhaps lack of time was a factor as well. I mean at least the gameplay's solid.
I don't think it had to be a one or the other deal, solid story and great gameplay together, we can always hope for the future I guess. Perhaps lack of time was a factor as well. I mean at least the gameplay's solid.
It didn't have to be a one or the other deal, no, but when you spend too much time somewhere, it often costs in somewhere else. Lack of time is surely one factor, usually it is, but "Time is money."
@Ja-Ra: NeRdS are justfied to bake a bad cake, yes, but it isn't morally right to treat your cake fans poorly. For instance, if you throw a rat in the cake and sell it, soon you're in court. The lesson: Don't put a rat in an MK game. Rockstar Games does this with GTA.
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I can't fathom how people don't understand why "Sub-Zero fans" are generally upset with Cyber Sub-Zero and his involvement in MK9.
He is a completely different character. Clearly, his physical appearance has been changed entirely. He no longer looks anything like the Sub-Zero so many fans grew to love.
And the changes made to the plot of MK9, and the ways in which it altered the original trilogy, begin to completely distort and change the characters story. I've read several people in this topic say things along the lines of "just because he can't have the same story as before, doesn't mean he can't go forward as a cyborg and have an excellent story."
And that's true.
But it won't be Sub-Zero's story. Sub-Zero's story was one of loss. The loss of his brother, the loss of his best friend, the loss of a student. He is a tragic character in the fact that he avoids harm, he avoids pitfalls, but has to watch everyone he loves suffer and fall victim to terrible fates.
His story was one of perseverance, one of humanity overcoming technology. All these things have been lost. With Smoke spared, he does not lose that friend, he does not watch another loved one disappear/die/be mutilated/etc. He suffers the horrible fate. It completely changes the background and story of the character.
And so now, what you're left with is a "Sub-Zero" that looks nothing like the SZ so many people came to be a fan of over the course of nearly two decades. And now, you have a "Sub-Zero" who does not have the same personality, story, obstacles to overcome, losses and tragedies to define him.
It is an entirely new look (and not an original one at that... he's a cyborg... another one), an entirely new history (and not an original one... a combo of smoke and cyrax), and an entirely new personality and path to follow.
At what point is this character now Sub-Zero essentially only in name?
And that's why Sub-Zero fans are largely angry. It doesn't look like Subby, doesn't act like subby, doesn't have the same traits/fears/goals/tragedies as Subby.
It would be like making Sonya a black woman with metal arms.
It would be like making Jade some monstrous, half-Tarkatan freak being that was created, not born, by Shang Tsung in the flesh-pits. Then raised as Kitana's friend/bodyguard/spywhomakessureshedoesntfindoutaboutstuff.
Would Jade fans not be irate? It would be part Jade's story, but with a heavy dose of Mileena mixed in. And then what? She wouldn't look like Jade, wouldn't have the same history or story of Jade, wouldn't have the same traits as jade.
Should people born and raised in Cleveland, OH, die-hard Browns fans, just have suddenly bought a bunch of Baltimore Ravens gear and started rooting for that franchise cuz technically its the same team, just with some dumbass owner who decided to hit the reboot switch and completely change everything about them?
He is a completely different character. Clearly, his physical appearance has been changed entirely. He no longer looks anything like the Sub-Zero so many fans grew to love.
And the changes made to the plot of MK9, and the ways in which it altered the original trilogy, begin to completely distort and change the characters story. I've read several people in this topic say things along the lines of "just because he can't have the same story as before, doesn't mean he can't go forward as a cyborg and have an excellent story."
And that's true.
But it won't be Sub-Zero's story. Sub-Zero's story was one of loss. The loss of his brother, the loss of his best friend, the loss of a student. He is a tragic character in the fact that he avoids harm, he avoids pitfalls, but has to watch everyone he loves suffer and fall victim to terrible fates.
His story was one of perseverance, one of humanity overcoming technology. All these things have been lost. With Smoke spared, he does not lose that friend, he does not watch another loved one disappear/die/be mutilated/etc. He suffers the horrible fate. It completely changes the background and story of the character.
And so now, what you're left with is a "Sub-Zero" that looks nothing like the SZ so many people came to be a fan of over the course of nearly two decades. And now, you have a "Sub-Zero" who does not have the same personality, story, obstacles to overcome, losses and tragedies to define him.
It is an entirely new look (and not an original one at that... he's a cyborg... another one), an entirely new history (and not an original one... a combo of smoke and cyrax), and an entirely new personality and path to follow.
At what point is this character now Sub-Zero essentially only in name?
And that's why Sub-Zero fans are largely angry. It doesn't look like Subby, doesn't act like subby, doesn't have the same traits/fears/goals/tragedies as Subby.
It would be like making Sonya a black woman with metal arms.
It would be like making Jade some monstrous, half-Tarkatan freak being that was created, not born, by Shang Tsung in the flesh-pits. Then raised as Kitana's friend/bodyguard/spywhomakessureshedoesntfindoutaboutstuff.
Would Jade fans not be irate? It would be part Jade's story, but with a heavy dose of Mileena mixed in. And then what? She wouldn't look like Jade, wouldn't have the same history or story of Jade, wouldn't have the same traits as jade.
Should people born and raised in Cleveland, OH, die-hard Browns fans, just have suddenly bought a bunch of Baltimore Ravens gear and started rooting for that franchise cuz technically its the same team, just with some dumbass owner who decided to hit the reboot switch and completely change everything about them?
exactly i dont understand either, almost every real fan of sub-zero is upset about the change.
It just certain people like jaded come on the board , and start throwing out there ideas of how awesome it is, and not taking a step back to think what fans of the character think.
also jaded looking at ur posting history u love to argue with people a lot, did someone get bullied to much, so they talk big online? Im actually very curious about this
this reminds me actually of how bad u used to bash scorpion, and one of his fans had enough of u, and u kept running ur mouth. internet tough guy i guess.
It just certain people like jaded come on the board , and start throwing out there ideas of how awesome it is, and not taking a step back to think what fans of the character think.
also jaded looking at ur posting history u love to argue with people a lot, did someone get bullied to much, so they talk big online? Im actually very curious about this
this reminds me actually of how bad u used to bash scorpion, and one of his fans had enough of u, and u kept running ur mouth. internet tough guy i guess.
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Just want to say what an a-hole RedSumac is one more time. Honestly, does it matter if I use correct English that much or were you just trying to pick a fight, again?
Also it's funny because the very next sentence you say this.
"Kuai Liang still have his humanity even as a cyborg." Wow, so I should take an English lesson from someone who doesn't even know how to use the word has?
As much as I may be biased towards Sub-Zero and being a human, you are just as biased to your opinion in general and think it's the be all end all when it comes to the story.
Also it's funny because in the same sentence I say that him becoming cyber just doesn't make sense to ME. You then turn it around into saying that I think it shouldn't make sense to anyone. I never said anyone should agree with my view.
Also, tell me this genius. The numbers, the statistics, they are based on gameplay statistics of everyone playing. How in the world, and honestly I'm waiting for a good explanation on this, how could that lie?
You mean to tell me that even though Cyber Subz is 20-21 in popularity on the site, he is still actually more popular than Human Sub-Zero?
Also, you're right there are no power charts. The main reason I feel that Smoke is weaker is kind of personal assumption, but mixed with how he talks to Sub-Zero in story just seems like he's reports to Sub-Zero, that is just assumption though. Also laced with him being captured in the old timeline, however those things are the exact things that weren't supposed to change in the story, the basics. If Smoke was weaker than Sub-Zero in the original timeline, then he should be weaker now.
Seriously though people just look at how RedSumac talks to some of you. LOOK at it.
I noticed one comment to Razer where he ask's why does Razer's opinion even matter? Why the hell does your opinion matter RedSumac? Stop coming on here talking down to people it's just not needed. Your not anymore an expert than anyone else and you can act more civil. You just choose not to.
Also it's funny because the very next sentence you say this.
"Kuai Liang still have his humanity even as a cyborg." Wow, so I should take an English lesson from someone who doesn't even know how to use the word has?
As much as I may be biased towards Sub-Zero and being a human, you are just as biased to your opinion in general and think it's the be all end all when it comes to the story.
Also it's funny because in the same sentence I say that him becoming cyber just doesn't make sense to ME. You then turn it around into saying that I think it shouldn't make sense to anyone. I never said anyone should agree with my view.
Also, tell me this genius. The numbers, the statistics, they are based on gameplay statistics of everyone playing. How in the world, and honestly I'm waiting for a good explanation on this, how could that lie?
You mean to tell me that even though Cyber Subz is 20-21 in popularity on the site, he is still actually more popular than Human Sub-Zero?
Also, you're right there are no power charts. The main reason I feel that Smoke is weaker is kind of personal assumption, but mixed with how he talks to Sub-Zero in story just seems like he's reports to Sub-Zero, that is just assumption though. Also laced with him being captured in the old timeline, however those things are the exact things that weren't supposed to change in the story, the basics. If Smoke was weaker than Sub-Zero in the original timeline, then he should be weaker now.
Seriously though people just look at how RedSumac talks to some of you. LOOK at it.
I noticed one comment to Razer where he ask's why does Razer's opinion even matter? Why the hell does your opinion matter RedSumac? Stop coming on here talking down to people it's just not needed. Your not anymore an expert than anyone else and you can act more civil. You just choose not to.
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Jaded-Raven Wrote:
I agree that there are indeed major plotholes and retcons in this storyline that are yet to be explained. Many of them I disagree with, others I simply wish to have explained. Either way, I accept the story for what it is. I defend it, because in general, I like the storyline, poor writing or not.
The things I would like to have explained by NRS:
- Why it was retconned that Kitana meeting Mileena for the first time was during the Outworld tournament - and the way Kitana found out about her Edenian heritage.
- Why Raiden chose to rescue Smoke and not Sub-Zero when the Lin Kuei attempts kidnapping them.
- How Quan Chi was able to claim the souls of the fallen warriors.
- Why it was retconned that Sheeva was no longer Sindel's bodyguard.
- Why Quan Chi had so much spotlight and was given most of Shang Tsung's former role.
- Why Raiden was able to heal Jax, but not Liu Kang, or for that matter, Kitana.
As for Cyber Sub-Zero, it was clearly explained and NOT a plothole how he came to be, and thus I accept it. And sure, because I find Cyber Subbie looking awesome and being fun to play with just helps me accept it. However, I do not see him being a cyborg as a hinderance to become as great as his former self in the old timeline. Being a cyborg and to struggle with that everyday from now on... I can see potential in that.
Well, it does negate all those things. It's not a positive thing when we curious fans would like to have some things explained to us, but in the end, that's the truth. NRS can do whatever they want with Mortal Kombat, because it is theirs to do so.
Some fans, however, seem to think that MK is theirs and if things aren't going the way they want it to go, then they feel betrayed, as if something was taken from them... something that wasn't theirs to begin with.
RazorsEdge701 Wrote:
But changing the rules of your own universe, having complicated shit like spells and pacts happen off-screen without telling the audience that it has happened off-screen is the very definition of poor writing.
That's what poor writing IS, when the audience can't fucking follow what's going on because it makes no damned sense. How can you defend that? Why would you come up with excuses for it, why not just admit the plothole is there instead of pretending it's not?
There's NOTHING given to us the audience, in this story or in any previous MK story, that could possibly explain how Shao Kahn got the souls of the characters who died in the church and gave them to Quan Chi. There just isn't. That is a stone cold fact.
Jaded-Raven Wrote:
Who are you to define what ways there are for claiming the souls of others in MK? You can only go by what we have seen in the past games, but that doesn't mean that there aren't more ways to claim them.
Maybe Sindel was used as a tool, maybe a pact between Kahn and Quan Chi was more than enough to claim them, or maybe there's a whole third way. Either way, it was NRS' decision that it would be an availability, and they can do that because it is THEIR game, it is THEIR world.
Who are you to define what ways there are for claiming the souls of others in MK? You can only go by what we have seen in the past games, but that doesn't mean that there aren't more ways to claim them.
Maybe Sindel was used as a tool, maybe a pact between Kahn and Quan Chi was more than enough to claim them, or maybe there's a whole third way. Either way, it was NRS' decision that it would be an availability, and they can do that because it is THEIR game, it is THEIR world.
But changing the rules of your own universe, having complicated shit like spells and pacts happen off-screen without telling the audience that it has happened off-screen is the very definition of poor writing.
That's what poor writing IS, when the audience can't fucking follow what's going on because it makes no damned sense. How can you defend that? Why would you come up with excuses for it, why not just admit the plothole is there instead of pretending it's not?
There's NOTHING given to us the audience, in this story or in any previous MK story, that could possibly explain how Shao Kahn got the souls of the characters who died in the church and gave them to Quan Chi. There just isn't. That is a stone cold fact.
I agree that there are indeed major plotholes and retcons in this storyline that are yet to be explained. Many of them I disagree with, others I simply wish to have explained. Either way, I accept the story for what it is. I defend it, because in general, I like the storyline, poor writing or not.
The things I would like to have explained by NRS:
- Why it was retconned that Kitana meeting Mileena for the first time was during the Outworld tournament - and the way Kitana found out about her Edenian heritage.
- Why Raiden chose to rescue Smoke and not Sub-Zero when the Lin Kuei attempts kidnapping them.
- How Quan Chi was able to claim the souls of the fallen warriors.
- Why it was retconned that Sheeva was no longer Sindel's bodyguard.
- Why Quan Chi had so much spotlight and was given most of Shang Tsung's former role.
- Why Raiden was able to heal Jax, but not Liu Kang, or for that matter, Kitana.
As for Cyber Sub-Zero, it was clearly explained and NOT a plothole how he came to be, and thus I accept it. And sure, because I find Cyber Subbie looking awesome and being fun to play with just helps me accept it. However, I do not see him being a cyborg as a hinderance to become as great as his former self in the old timeline. Being a cyborg and to struggle with that everyday from now on... I can see potential in that.
Espio872 Wrote:
I find it a bit confusing that people say it's their game and their story as if that negates any illogical, unexplained, or ridiculous retcon, plot hole or other poor writing issue, I don't think it does.
It has never gone over well in any media whether it's a game, movie, or book, I don't see why MK should be the exception.
I find it a bit confusing that people say it's their game and their story as if that negates any illogical, unexplained, or ridiculous retcon, plot hole or other poor writing issue, I don't think it does.
It has never gone over well in any media whether it's a game, movie, or book, I don't see why MK should be the exception.
Well, it does negate all those things. It's not a positive thing when we curious fans would like to have some things explained to us, but in the end, that's the truth. NRS can do whatever they want with Mortal Kombat, because it is theirs to do so.
Some fans, however, seem to think that MK is theirs and if things aren't going the way they want it to go, then they feel betrayed, as if something was taken from them... something that wasn't theirs to begin with.
I want to say this in regard to the final comment. I feel that the creation of a story belongs to the owner and the owner completely until he publishes it or puts it out in the open. Once that has been done though it belongs to everyone. Such as fans.
Like some fans of batman for instance come along and make their own story of batman and fans end up liking it more than the original. Like tim burton or chris nolan's version of batman are completely different from the cartoonish version first published and I would say that people love these versions but probably couldn't take the original in this day and age.
It belongs to the fans because let's be honest. They are trying to make money and they want their story to help them make that money. If the fans don't like or extremely like one aspect of the story then they have the right to say that it should or should not be changed and the writers should pay attention to that. No, for creativity purposes they should not fold on every single issue. However, on an issue like this that has so completely divided the fanbase it would be smart to listen to fans somewhat and when their is such outcry for human sub-zero I do believe they should listen. I'm not saying I'm right though, It's just my opinion. The story doesn't belong to them anymore because they put it out in the public, now fans have a say.
Just take it like this in any story there are favorite characters and sometimes when a certain character dies it causes some major fan outrage and fans will turn away. It's just natural.
I can think of one right now. Ianto from torchwood. Now, i wasn't against killing him, however, many were and it's cost the show fans. There are others too, where just changing a minor aspect of a character makes such a huge difference. I can't even think of the name of the show, but there was one show back in the nineties where the girl cut all of her hair off and the show ended up getting cancelled because of it. People don't like these changes and it's no different with cyber sub-zero. A good majority want human sub-zero back and as ridiculous as it may sound fans will walk if he doesn't come back. Just like me. If he's not in the next game I won't play.
That doesn't mean I won't stay a fan of mortal kombat though. I will always love the old story and play the old games. However I won't play the new game, and from a business perspective that's not good because that's exactly what they want you to do is play the new game. They want you to play their new game because it makes them money, and if fans turn away because of a stupid change like that, why not just fix it? It just makes more sense to turn him back, honestly it was a mistake to make him in the first place from a business perspective.
The one thing it did do good for them business wise is it effectively got talk stirring. In fact that may be the exact reason they did it. We are still talking about whether or not he should be human, which is something that will carry on to MKII(2013). So for talk to go to two games and have people wondering, that is a good thing. In the end though if Kuai Liang isn't back, I ain't playing and I think they know that. Which is why I think in the end he will be turned back along with all of the other heroes returning.
While there were the few characters after MK3 that people like they are few and far between, and the new characters they think up tend to be awful. So them straying too far off path of the original is going to blow up in their face.
In fact they made a number of characters from MK4-MKA and the popular ones can be counted on two hands.
Tonya, Reiko, Fujin, Kenshi, Frost, Li Mei, Havik, Hotaru, Bo Rai Cho and that's about it. Some of those can be debated as well. Their track record isn't great as far as new characters go so they need those characters back. I think that's why they are taking such a big break this time too. They need the new to wear off of this game contrary to what many think. Because a lot of those old characters are going to be back in the next one.
Viser Wrote:
exactly i dont understand either, almost every real fan of sub-zero is upset about the change.
It just certain people like jaded come on the board , and start throwing out there ideas of how awesome it is, and not taking a step back to think what fans of the character think.
also jaded looking at ur posting history u love to argue with people a lot, did someone get bullied to much, so they talk big online? Im actually very curious about this
this reminds me actually of how bad u used to bash scorpion, and one of his fans had enough of u, and u kept running ur mouth. internet tough guy i guess.
exactly i dont understand either, almost every real fan of sub-zero is upset about the change.
It just certain people like jaded come on the board , and start throwing out there ideas of how awesome it is, and not taking a step back to think what fans of the character think.
also jaded looking at ur posting history u love to argue with people a lot, did someone get bullied to much, so they talk big online? Im actually very curious about this
this reminds me actually of how bad u used to bash scorpion, and one of his fans had enough of u, and u kept running ur mouth. internet tough guy i guess.
You know, everyone is entitled to their opinions whether you like it or not, whether they're a fan or not, or whatever. You were warned once to knock off the sleazy attitude towards a user and be nice.
You want some skulls added to your post or are you going to knock it off? No one as to agree with anyone's ideas/opinions/etc. But they're free to to state it. Even if they're not a fan of a character being discussed, they are allowed to state whatever they want as long as it's not going out of line. If you have a problem with a user, I strongly recommend you ignore them from now on or else I really have no problem skulling you for acting very rude for no particular reason.
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Scar_Subby Wrote:
I feel that the creation of a story belongs to the owner and the owner completely until he publishes it or puts it out in the open. Once that has been done though it belongs to everyone. Such as fans.
I feel that the creation of a story belongs to the owner and the owner completely until he publishes it or puts it out in the open. Once that has been done though it belongs to everyone. Such as fans.
Well, you might feel like that, but you would be wrong. The rights and ownership is still in the hands of the creators. Never the fans.
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Yea but creatively it doesn't because you have to be extremely careful.
Hypothetically they could make johnny cage turn out to be a woman who's dressed as a man.lol. What I'm saying is just because they own it doesn't neccessarily mean they know what's best for it. In fact I've read fan stories that are ten times better than anything they have wrote in a while.
So while yes they own the copyrights and all of the other legal terms of "own", They don't technically own it. The fans own it as well, because like I said before if there aren't fans then it's just ideas on paper. Nothing more, nothing less. Also, if fans aren't happy and they decide to drop the franchise all together then guess what no more mortal kombat at all. Just imagine if they release a game that no one buys the game would be shelved faster than a speeding bullet.lol. It all comes down to money at the end of the day so if fans don't buy it then there's a good chance it won't be made again. So while you're right about them owning the name, they don't own the ideas, not completely. They must at least take some fan input if they wish to continue on or the story will fail. Hell, where do you think Skarlett and Ermac came from? How about Smoke being human in this one, although it led to another being turned cyber. Don't know why they couldn't take the hint the first time around??? Off topic: I like cyber smoke, but it was obvious a lot of people didn't, that's why I question them on this. If it was so heavily disliked the first time, what makes them think, "let's take the second most popular character we have and turn him cyber, that will go over extremely well", really what makes them think that?
Back to Main discussion: Anyway, the point is that's why I say if enough people were to complain about cyber subz it can probably be changed. That's assuming enough people complain though. I want to say though that the fedora on the cyber subz head a few months back should be a good hint that theyve heard the complaints. I would say, once again I could be wrong, but I'm going to go out on a limb and say freddy and cyber subz have probably been complained about heavily and they were just acknowledging that they hear what we are saying.
Hypothetically they could make johnny cage turn out to be a woman who's dressed as a man.lol. What I'm saying is just because they own it doesn't neccessarily mean they know what's best for it. In fact I've read fan stories that are ten times better than anything they have wrote in a while.
So while yes they own the copyrights and all of the other legal terms of "own", They don't technically own it. The fans own it as well, because like I said before if there aren't fans then it's just ideas on paper. Nothing more, nothing less. Also, if fans aren't happy and they decide to drop the franchise all together then guess what no more mortal kombat at all. Just imagine if they release a game that no one buys the game would be shelved faster than a speeding bullet.lol. It all comes down to money at the end of the day so if fans don't buy it then there's a good chance it won't be made again. So while you're right about them owning the name, they don't own the ideas, not completely. They must at least take some fan input if they wish to continue on or the story will fail. Hell, where do you think Skarlett and Ermac came from? How about Smoke being human in this one, although it led to another being turned cyber. Don't know why they couldn't take the hint the first time around??? Off topic: I like cyber smoke, but it was obvious a lot of people didn't, that's why I question them on this. If it was so heavily disliked the first time, what makes them think, "let's take the second most popular character we have and turn him cyber, that will go over extremely well", really what makes them think that?
Back to Main discussion: Anyway, the point is that's why I say if enough people were to complain about cyber subz it can probably be changed. That's assuming enough people complain though. I want to say though that the fedora on the cyber subz head a few months back should be a good hint that theyve heard the complaints. I would say, once again I could be wrong, but I'm going to go out on a limb and say freddy and cyber subz have probably been complained about heavily and they were just acknowledging that they hear what we are saying.
I see a lot of little nasty remarks in this thread, everyone can cut the garbage out now, the personal attacks, the name calling, and patronizing nonsense it needs to stop. If I see anymore of it, skulls will be handed out.
It's really not that hard to have an intelligent conversation and disagree without being nasty to other people.
It's really not that hard to have an intelligent conversation and disagree without being nasty to other people.
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Scar_Subby Wrote:
Yea but creatively it doesn't because you have to be extremely careful.
Hypothetically they could make johnny cage turn out to be a woman who's dressed as a man.lol. What I'm saying is just because they own it doesn't neccessarily mean they know what's best for it. In fact I've read fan stories that are ten times better than anything they have wrote in a while.
So while yes they own the copyrights and all of the other legal terms of "own", They don't technically own it. The fans own it as well, because like I said before if there aren't fans then it's just ideas on paper. Nothing more, nothing less. Also, if fans aren't happy and they decide to drop the franchise all together then guess what no more mortal kombat at all. Just imagine if they release a game that no one buys the game would be shelved faster than a speeding bullet.lol. It all comes down to money at the end of the day so if fans don't buy it then there's a good chance it won't be made again. So while you're right about them owning the name, they don't own the ideas, not completely. They must at least take some fan input if they wish to continue on or the story will fail. Hell, where do you think Skarlett and Ermac came from? How about Smoke being human in this one, although it led to another being turned cyber. Don't know why they couldn't take the hint the first time around??? Off topic: I like cyber smoke, but it was obvious a lot of people didn't, that's why I question them on this. If it was so heavily disliked the first time, what makes them think, "let's take the second most popular character we have and turn him cyber, that will go over extremely well", really what makes them think that?
Back to Main discussion: Anyway, the point is that's why I say if enough people were to complain about cyber subz it can probably be changed. That's assuming enough people complain though. I want to say though that the fedora on the cyber subz head a few months back should be a good hint that theyve heard the complaints. I would say, once again I could be wrong, but I'm going to go out on a limb and say freddy and cyber subz have probably been complained about heavily and they were just acknowledging that they hear what we are saying.
Yea but creatively it doesn't because you have to be extremely careful.
Hypothetically they could make johnny cage turn out to be a woman who's dressed as a man.lol. What I'm saying is just because they own it doesn't neccessarily mean they know what's best for it. In fact I've read fan stories that are ten times better than anything they have wrote in a while.
So while yes they own the copyrights and all of the other legal terms of "own", They don't technically own it. The fans own it as well, because like I said before if there aren't fans then it's just ideas on paper. Nothing more, nothing less. Also, if fans aren't happy and they decide to drop the franchise all together then guess what no more mortal kombat at all. Just imagine if they release a game that no one buys the game would be shelved faster than a speeding bullet.lol. It all comes down to money at the end of the day so if fans don't buy it then there's a good chance it won't be made again. So while you're right about them owning the name, they don't own the ideas, not completely. They must at least take some fan input if they wish to continue on or the story will fail. Hell, where do you think Skarlett and Ermac came from? How about Smoke being human in this one, although it led to another being turned cyber. Don't know why they couldn't take the hint the first time around??? Off topic: I like cyber smoke, but it was obvious a lot of people didn't, that's why I question them on this. If it was so heavily disliked the first time, what makes them think, "let's take the second most popular character we have and turn him cyber, that will go over extremely well", really what makes them think that?
Back to Main discussion: Anyway, the point is that's why I say if enough people were to complain about cyber subz it can probably be changed. That's assuming enough people complain though. I want to say though that the fedora on the cyber subz head a few months back should be a good hint that theyve heard the complaints. I would say, once again I could be wrong, but I'm going to go out on a limb and say freddy and cyber subz have probably been complained about heavily and they were just acknowledging that they hear what we are saying.
I get your points, I really do, but then I would say that "owning" would be the wrong word to use. The only reason we fans gets heard is because the MK team listens. That doesn't mean we own anything, it just means that we contribute to the creative process. And if the fan ideas are being put into the game, we don't get any credits. We don't have any rights to those. We don't own anything. The developers do.
Ermac and Skarlet might have come from fan rumours, but those who came up with it haven't gotten ANYTHING from their creation. Ermac and Skarlet are now real characters... who gets the credits for them? Who owns them? The fans? NO! The MK team owns them.
Good point about Cyber Subbie and Freddy though.
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Thanks I'm glad you at least understand the point I'm trying to make. I guess the main point I'm trying to get across there is that I think it's crazy when people say NRS shouldn't listen to fans.
I would say these are some complaints that NRS shouldn't listen too:
Kitana's hair is too stiff or little things along those lines. Which I've seen so many of those little complaints just like that where I just think can't you be happy?
however when it comes to complete character overhaul like the one that has taken place with Sub-Zero I feel that fans of his have every right to go on Ed Boon's twitter and hound his arse until something is done about it.
i also feel the same way about freddy. While I'm not a complainer when it comes to freddy I do feel that efforts could have went somewhere else to make MK better, as well as Kratos for that matter. Kratos was a little more understandable to me than Freddy though. The time spent on them could have been something MK related. There were missing arenas, costumes, etc... that could have been explored. Hell why could they not make a skin for Smoke to give a hypothetical cyber smoke? Why?
Those are complaints I feel that should be heard and that's where I do feel that fans should have a say so. If they feel their character has been done injustice then they should speak until something is done about it.
Smoke fans did it for years and now look. So if it takes years to get Sub-Zero back, and I'm talking about Kuai Liang, not Bi han, back as a human and as Sub-zero then dang it sign me up. I won't buy the games and I'll boycott, until I get my character back.lol. It's simple as that. They didn't have to switch anything here honestly they could have just had Smoke and Sub-Zero both escape automation. Especially considering their fates later in the game. Also I still do not understand his soul being cyber. That's not just him either though. Jax and Kabal both should be completely human in their soul forms. No one's soul has any mechanical part to it. Earthly things are earthly and I'm pretty sure that means mechanical parts. I would have just went the route of having them all revived in the next game and have Kabal continue on maskless, with powers, while Jax decides the metal arms enhanced him so he makes the enhancements once again. Also human subz would return fully human. I just didn't get that part at all, souls don't have mechanical parts. Period.
I would say these are some complaints that NRS shouldn't listen too:
Kitana's hair is too stiff or little things along those lines. Which I've seen so many of those little complaints just like that where I just think can't you be happy?
however when it comes to complete character overhaul like the one that has taken place with Sub-Zero I feel that fans of his have every right to go on Ed Boon's twitter and hound his arse until something is done about it.
i also feel the same way about freddy. While I'm not a complainer when it comes to freddy I do feel that efforts could have went somewhere else to make MK better, as well as Kratos for that matter. Kratos was a little more understandable to me than Freddy though. The time spent on them could have been something MK related. There were missing arenas, costumes, etc... that could have been explored. Hell why could they not make a skin for Smoke to give a hypothetical cyber smoke? Why?
Those are complaints I feel that should be heard and that's where I do feel that fans should have a say so. If they feel their character has been done injustice then they should speak until something is done about it.
Smoke fans did it for years and now look. So if it takes years to get Sub-Zero back, and I'm talking about Kuai Liang, not Bi han, back as a human and as Sub-zero then dang it sign me up. I won't buy the games and I'll boycott, until I get my character back.lol. It's simple as that. They didn't have to switch anything here honestly they could have just had Smoke and Sub-Zero both escape automation. Especially considering their fates later in the game. Also I still do not understand his soul being cyber. That's not just him either though. Jax and Kabal both should be completely human in their soul forms. No one's soul has any mechanical part to it. Earthly things are earthly and I'm pretty sure that means mechanical parts. I would have just went the route of having them all revived in the next game and have Kabal continue on maskless, with powers, while Jax decides the metal arms enhanced him so he makes the enhancements once again. Also human subz would return fully human. I just didn't get that part at all, souls don't have mechanical parts. Period.
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I'm always positive when fans try to get some constructive criticism through to the developers. But fans saying they want human Subbie over cyborg Subbie - that's not constructive criticism, that's preferences and opinions.
About Me
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Scar_Subby Wrote:
I just didn't get that part at all, souls don't have mechanical parts. Period.
I just didn't get that part at all, souls don't have mechanical parts. Period.
Well if you want to get technical, souls shouldn't have skin or clothing on either, those are Earthly, physical things that wouldn't carry over to the afterlife too. The characters should theoretically be floating see-thru green ghosts.
Like I said, it's probably just a case of having the surface appearance of what you looked like when you died.
Sort of like "residual self-image" in The Matrix.
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RazorsEdge701 Wrote:
Well if you want to get technical, souls shouldn't have skin or clothing on either, those are Earthly, physical things that wouldn't carry over to the afterlife too. The characters should theoretically be floating see-thru green ghosts.
Like I said, it's probably just a case of having the surface appearance of what you looked like when you died.
Sort of like "residual self-image" in The Matrix.
Scar_Subby Wrote:
I just didn't get that part at all, souls don't have mechanical parts. Period.
I just didn't get that part at all, souls don't have mechanical parts. Period.
Well if you want to get technical, souls shouldn't have skin or clothing on either, those are Earthly, physical things that wouldn't carry over to the afterlife too. The characters should theoretically be floating see-thru green ghosts.
Like I said, it's probably just a case of having the surface appearance of what you looked like when you died.
Sort of like "residual self-image" in The Matrix.
That sounds pretty sensible. And it would explain such things as Subbie keeping his cyborg self in afterlife, as well as Kabal still appearing burned and Jax with his cyber-arms.
Jaded-Raven Wrote:
That sounds pretty sensible. And it would explain such things as Subbie keeping his cyborg self in afterlife, as well as Kabal still appearing burned and Jax with his cyber-arms.
Well that's the first thing usually coming to one's mind about it, but the thing is that there could be something else above that as well. You can't expect Cysuze to know what his back or the bottoms of his boots look like, unless he managed to already check them out from a mirror. NeRdS probably wanted to leave it to our imagination though. It's not solid but it will do.RazorsEdge701 Wrote:
Well if you want to get technical, souls shouldn't have skin or clothing on either, those are Earthly, physical things that wouldn't carry over to the afterlife too. The characters should theoretically be floating see-thru green ghosts.
Like I said, it's probably just a case of having the surface appearance of what you looked like when you died.
Sort of like "residual self-image" in The Matrix.
Scar_Subby Wrote:
I just didn't get that part at all, souls don't have mechanical parts. Period.
I just didn't get that part at all, souls don't have mechanical parts. Period.
Well if you want to get technical, souls shouldn't have skin or clothing on either, those are Earthly, physical things that wouldn't carry over to the afterlife too. The characters should theoretically be floating see-thru green ghosts.
Like I said, it's probably just a case of having the surface appearance of what you looked like when you died.
Sort of like "residual self-image" in The Matrix.
That sounds pretty sensible. And it would explain such things as Subbie keeping his cyborg self in afterlife, as well as Kabal still appearing burned and Jax with his cyber-arms.
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Zmoke Wrote:
You can't expect Cysuze to know what his back or the bottoms of his boots look like, unless he managed to already check them out from a mirror.
You can't expect Cysuze to know what his back or the bottoms of his boots look like, unless he managed to already check them out from a mirror.
Explain, please. I'm not sure I get what you mean.
About Me
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Of all the fan negativity over the years, do any of you really think NRS was phased by the bitching, whining, and moaning over one stupid character; Cyber Sub-Zero?
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LOL @ UR FACE
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LOL @ UR FACE
Jaded-Raven Wrote:
Explain, please. I'm not sure I get what you mean.
Zmoke Wrote:
You can't expect Cysuze to know what his back or the bottoms of his boots look like, unless he managed to already check them out from a mirror.
You can't expect Cysuze to know what his back or the bottoms of his boots look like, unless he managed to already check them out from a mirror.
Explain, please. I'm not sure I get what you mean.
I mean, if Cysuze comes to Netherrealm in the way he feels to be looking like, how can he imagine places of his body like his back correctly or other places he can't see (assuming his suit model was exclusive to him)? Nonetheless, this is one of those minor issues really.
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Zmoke Wrote:
I mean, if Cysuze comes to Netherrealm in the way he feels to be looking like, how can he imagine places of his body like his back correctly or other places he can't see (assuming his suit model was exclusive to him)? Nonetheless, this is one of those minor issues really.
Jaded-Raven Wrote:
Explain, please. I'm not sure I get what you mean.
Zmoke Wrote:
You can't expect Cysuze to know what his back or the bottoms of his boots look like, unless he managed to already check them out from a mirror.
You can't expect Cysuze to know what his back or the bottoms of his boots look like, unless he managed to already check them out from a mirror.
Explain, please. I'm not sure I get what you mean.
I mean, if Cysuze comes to Netherrealm in the way he feels to be looking like, how can he imagine places of his body like his back correctly or other places he can't see (assuming his suit model was exclusive to him)? Nonetheless, this is one of those minor issues really.
I don't think the dead chooses how they wish to look like.
Jaded-Raven Wrote:
I don't think the dead chooses how they wish to look like.
Zmoke Wrote:
I mean, if Cysuze comes to Netherrealm in the way he feels to be looking like, how can he imagine places of his body like his back correctly or other places he can't see (assuming his suit model was exclusive to him)? Nonetheless, this is one of those minor issues really.
Jaded-Raven Wrote:
Explain, please. I'm not sure I get what you mean.
Zmoke Wrote:
You can't expect Cysuze to know what his back or the bottoms of his boots look like, unless he managed to already check them out from a mirror.
You can't expect Cysuze to know what his back or the bottoms of his boots look like, unless he managed to already check them out from a mirror.
Explain, please. I'm not sure I get what you mean.
I mean, if Cysuze comes to Netherrealm in the way he feels to be looking like, how can he imagine places of his body like his back correctly or other places he can't see (assuming his suit model was exclusive to him)? Nonetheless, this is one of those minor issues really.
I don't think the dead chooses how they wish to look like.
That would be the residual self-image to which you agreed on a few posts ago. This whole thing is just pure speculation however. See the other self-images.
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