I would like to say that I'm glad I'm not the only Scorpion fan on this board. I'm surprised by how little appreciation he has in the MK kommunity.

I myself feel that Scorpion IS all about revenge but that's the way I like him. He's aggressive, relentless, and he'll do anything in his power to get the job done (Ex: Whilst fighting you, he'll rip your arm off and start beating you with it. He uses ANYTHING he can find and uses it against you.). Having him turn noble by MK2 and 3 would have been pretty kool but in the end, it's not Scorpion. Scorpion doesn't start anything with anyone but if you get in his way he'll do unspeakable things to you.

I love Scorpion just the way he he is and I think it's a bum wrap that he wasn't properly rewarded for defeating Onaga. All this guy wants is peace of mind whether it would be by killing his mortal enemy or bringing his family and clan back from the dead. I hope he finds that peace one day but takes everyone down with him when he does.

Your talk about Scorpion's aggression actually makes me crack up. But... who did defeat the Dragon King? I'm going to assume it's Scorpion, which is probably how he was betrayed. Y'know? He got the job done, but didn't get his reward. But, it's still out there what actually happened. I'm just basing that "being betrayed by the elder gods" thing from MK:A's Konquest, which I don't fully remember the details of.

They never said Scorpion was Lin Kuei in his past life. The retcon, which may or may not be canon, is that he never found out the new Sub-Zero was not the one who killed him, never vowed to protect him, and has been trying to kill him the whole time until MK4.



No. They confirmed Shujinko defeated Onaga. Scorpion...if anything...might have helped a little bit. That's why the Elder Gods "betrayed" Scorpion....he didn't do his fucking job.


Scorpion used to be my favorite character above all. When I was kid, I liked I was drawn to whole undead ninja out for revenge and the spear thing. And the tragic element of his character...that he lost his family and could never be with them again.

But what I really liked about Scorpion was that even though he was a revenge-crazed spectre out for revenge, he tried to hold on to some semblence of honor. He wanted justice for the loss of his life and family. Then when he learned of the younger Sub-Zero, he vowed to protect him and so forth.
People like to say Scorpion never had any code of honor even back in the beginning, but they forget that in MK1, Scorpion claimed that he "was not a murderer." To me, a hellspawn ninja claiming he's not a murderer tells me that he has, or at least wants to have, some sense on honor in what he does.

I liked Scorpion when he was the anti-hero of the story. He was a neutral loner who didn't care about anyone...but when it mattered he would do the right thing.

At first I was ecited about his presence in MK4, because in Mythologies they revealed it was Quan Chi's fault he was killed by Sub-Zero in the first place AND that he had slaughtered Scorpion's clan and family. It seemed like this would be a big moment when Scorpion would do something really heroic....which he did by dragging Quan Chi into the Netherealm with him.

Unfortunately, it was at this time that his vow to protect the younger Sub-Zero started to come into question. It started going around that the MKII endings never happened at all and that in actuality, Scorpion had been mindlessly trying to kill the younger Sub-Zero...and failing...the whole time. This pretty much botched up Scorpion's storyline in a major way.

At this point, I don't even care anymore. They never clearly confirmed whether vow didn't happen (the only "confirmation" is a vague line in Scorpion's MK:DA Konquest) or not and from the looks of things...they never will. So, I say fuck it and I believe he did vow to protect Sub-Zero and that Quan Chi deceived Scorpion into trying to kill him during MK4.

The feud between Scorpion and Quan Chi should've been a lot better than it was. It had nice build, a nice touch of poetic justice to it...since Quan Chi more or less created Scorpion...but during MK:DA it just fell flat. They never presented Scorpion as a serious threat to Quan Chi. Once they escaped the Netherealm, Quan Chi bitch-smacked Scorpion into Shang Tsung's Acid Bath and moved on. And Scorpion himself ended up getting jumped by Drahmin & Moloch. This, combined with the confusion over his vow to protect Sub-Zero, is where Scorpion really started to get stale.

But it seemed like there was hope with Scorpion becoming the Champion of the Elder Gods. At first, I was excited about this. I thought this would've been very fitting for Scorpion and the overdue culmination of him being MK's anti-hero. I figured that, after seeing Raiden and the Earth heroes get defeated by the Deadly Alliance and the return of the Dragon King, Scorpion would have finally realized that there were bigger things going on than his own grudges.

But no. With Armageddon we learn that he only did it because...surprise...he wants his clan and family back. And sure enough, when things don't go his way, he....surprise again...wants revenge.

Like I said, Scorpion used to be my favorite character....but with Armageddon, I've lost all remaining respect for him as a character. Between this, and his presentation in Shaolin Monks, Scorpion has become a joke.

This is the thing that gets me about Scorpion now: we're supposed to think he's the unstoppable, bad ass wild card, who should be feared and respected. But, if you pay attention to him in the past few games...he's not. He's a loser. He's a mindless chump, who blindly attacks any random person who happens to piss him off and only gets his ass kicked for it. He's not cool...he's a whiney, petty, incompetent, small-minded crybaby.

I mean look at him in Armageddon. The realms are a step away from being destroyed, people are dying everywhere, war is all over the place, end of the world and all that.......and here's Scorpion. Still bitching about his family, like he has been since day one. He wants revenge against the Elder Gods...which in itself, I think is stupid...and how does he go about enacting his vengeance? He attacks Taven. His logic being "Taven is supposed to save the realms...therefore if I kill him, that will be bad for the Elder Gods." And sure enough, he fights Taven and surprise...loses.

This is Mortal Kombat's iconic bad ass? This idiotic dipshit?

The fact that Scorpion can never die, no matter how many times he gets his ass kicked, is lame too. Back in the old games, they did have consequences if Scorpion died again. Unfortunately, it's been forgotten and now he can die again and again like it's nothing. For some reason, people like this...but frankly, I'd be more impressed with the guy who's still around because he's a great fighter rather than the loser who's still around because he won't die no matter how many times he gets beaten.

I look back on the old glory days of Scorpion with fondness. Back when Scorpion was a thinking character who applied some sense of honor or logic to what he did. When he was my favorite character over everybody. And there is still a very small part of me that still hopes somehow he will be returned to the greatness that was stolen from him.

But as of now....Scorpion's dead to me.

I guess I may be wrong about Scorpion being a member of the Lin Kuei, upon doing some research. I only remember Scorpion's ending, saying that he was marked for death. And with what happened to Sub-Zero in MK3, I blurred it together.

But Scorpion was shown to be a serious threat to Quan Chi. Quan Chi was getting weaker in hell while Scorpion became more powerful, and he stalked and tormented Quan Chi. He had to get help from Drahmin and Moloch to escape Scorpion, by they only bought him some time.
With their battle in the living world, Shang Tsung confirmed that it was just a stroke of luck that Scorpion slipped into the acid pit. And while Quan Chi gloated over his victory, Shang Tsung knew that Quan Chi was no match for a warrior such as Scorpion.

I'll agree that Scorpion has been going down hill the last few games. But Scorpion has only had two official "deaths." The first time he died when Sub-Zero killed him, and the second when he slipped into Shang Tsung's acid pool. And even then, Scorpion doesn't actually "die." He and everyone he cares about are dead, so I understand that he doesn't care what happens to the world. If his clan were alive, then I think he would care.

And I don't know, Scorpion can't "kill" the elder gods but he can make them go away for a while. Shang Tsung and Quan Chi defeated Raiden, and he's technically an elder god. Also, Noob Saibot defeated gods while he was alive, but both have proved to be no match for Scorpion.

Yeah, in the Netherealm, when Quan Chi lost all his power, Scorpion was a threat to him. But once they got out and Quan Chi's power returned to him....
And it wasn't a fluke. Shang Tsung thought it was a fluke, but Quan Chi proved him wrong. I remember that was a Konquest test for Quan Chi.


And BTW...

Only Johnny Cage's death/resurrection was somehow his movie. MK4 still happened.

One thing I always wondered about concerning Scorpion doing his job in MK:D.I'm assuming the elder gods gave him more power to defeat Onaga and he failed obviously before Shujinko beat him to the punch officially(despite if Scorpion helped or not which they really didn't confirm) yet anyway. Perhaps they'll elaborate in Scorpion's bio once it's ready.

Anyway, Scorpion is an MK icon.He's badass alone for that reason, his infamous "GET OVER HERE" and "COME HERE" is as classic as the MK series itself.

I remember when people knew or heard of MK alone for that reason, people would talk about either Scorpion or Sub-Zero.

Scorpion is as badass as Ermac and Sub but in a different way.


But yeah Scorpion is a cool character in my book.

For me Scorpion represents everything whats now wrong with the Mortal Kombat franchise. Then again, I never liked his, or Sub-Zeros presence that much, and I generally terminate any kind of possible affection toward ninjoid characters on instant.

Aside from the pretty decent, but insignificant character that he was in the first two installments he grew generally annoying in UMK3, and then abso-lutely and irredeemably awful in MK4.

MK4 is a world-class of awfullness on so many levels (outdated FMVs, bad graphics engine, quadrogrammic shadows?.., idiotic bonebreaker move, no difference between movesets) and on it's own. But Scorpion was
definitely the reason I stopped caring about him ... his plot was laughable, especially after the MK2/UMK3 then-established canon, and....

Scorpions general MK4 costume makes Joel Schumachers Batman & Robin look like a heterosexual masterpiece. I wonder why haven't they added Scorp-nipples on the latex jumpsuit?

Aside all jokes, there was some slight redeemable quality when they tried to solidify the Quan-Scorp quest and they introduced Scorpions defeat in MKDA for future installments, but in MKD.... well, if they wanted to complete-ly overhaul him, ok, but if they tried to expand him with another plotline...

-sigh-

So far Scorpion lost every redeeeming quality about him, and became the justapoxle and general scapegoat {rightfully so if I might add} and target for ostrachising the franchise. HE SIMPLY BECOME UNNECESSARY.

---

But what really turned me off from the character was the introduction of rage, emotional content etc... a ninja. A FUCKING NINJA...will NOT depend
on hellbent anger to overcome an opponent. A well-devised and known fact is that BLIND RAGE does NOT enpower you during a fight. Not one bit.
And I know this and experienced this for a fact.

XiahouDun84 nailed this one perfectly. I couldn't have said it better myself. Scorpion used to be one of my top favorites. In fact, he was #2 to me. Nowadays, he's just one big joke. If his story miraculously gets redeemed, I'll be overjoyed. However, I think that'll be far from the case.

To clear some things up...

No, Scorpion was never a member of the Lin Kuei. His MK1 bio indicates Scorpion being from a rival clan to the Lin Kuei.

Scorpion aided Shujinko in Onaga's destruction, but since Scorpion didn't deal the finishing blow, it was basically half-assing the job. So, for his reward, the Elder Gods half-assed their end of the deal by resurrecting his fellow Shirai Ryu ninja as undead ninja.

Quan Chi, being a sorcerer, gets weakened in the lower planes of the Netherrealm, namely the 5th. In other planes of the Netherrealm, he's fine. His fortress would likely be in a higher plane.

The whole Scorpion/Younger Sub-Zero thing is a mess. I personally would like to believe that Scorpion vowed to protect the Younger Sub-Zero and that Quan Chi made Scorpion believe that BOTH Sub-Zero brothers were responsible for the death of the Shirai Ryu clan and Scorpion's family. However, given the way things are in the story itself, it doesn't seem that way.

MK4 definitely happened. It's just that JC's story was retconned.

Overall, Scorpion is need of MAJOR overhauling in various areas from story and personality to fighting styles to costumes.

Need I remind you of barbarians, monguls, and vikings? They all used berzerker-styled fighting and were both devastating and feared.

Besides, everyone has this idea that ninjas are all the exact same thing: wearing masks, running around in the shadows, throwing shurikens, and never saying a word. And while that is true in many cases, it's wrong to think that's what all ninja were like. While in reality, ninjas were many things. They were clansmen, or they were villagers, or they were individuals. They were mercenaries, and rebel fighters.
A ninja could actually be standing right infront of you, normal clothes, no weapons, and actually be there to steal from you, or are spying on you... or are going to kill you.

Actually, um...when it comes to the arts used by the Ninja, they leaned more towards defense, NOT offense.

The things you mentioned about what "everyone" has an idea of regarding what ninja are like are of course just stereotypes.

To really say who a ninja was is hard to say. The history of the ninja is very confusing and there are many who believe they never existed. Some say that ninja are simply samurai and others say that some ninja were samurai and so on and so forth.

The spying stuff was for information gathering and things like that. Some Samurai also did that, hence arts like Tenshin Shoden Katori Shinto Ryu, which goes back to around 1447 CE.

The killing stuff, well, the whole assassin image of the ninja is much more myth than fact.

The way Scorpion acts is not very ninja-like. If anything, Sub-Zero is far more of a ninja than Scorpion is, and I don't even really consider Sub-Zero to be a ninja.

You said it yourself, ninjas did or didn't exist, so not even you can say how Scorpion should fight. And I watched a special on ninjas on the History channel, and they said everything I said, and things you've said, and much much more. I remember them saying that female ninja were more common than one would think. The women would keep their targets company and amuse them, but would poison their food/drink when they were distracted.

I didn't say that ninja did or didn't exist. I simply mentioned different viewpoints on the ninja, that's all.

When it comes to the three Ninpo Ryu-ha, which are Togakure Ryu, Gyokushin Ryu, and Kumogakure Ryu, they have a more defensive flavor to them.

In Togakure Ryu, it is believed that violence is to be avoided. Kumogakure Ryu is similar to Togakure Ryu in some ways, the non-violence thing being of them. That's not to say that the practicioners refrain themselves from fighting when need be. It's just that they prefer to avoid physical conflict as much as possible. And as for Gyokushin Ryu, it's more about Ninjutsu than Taijutsu.

So for Scorpion, an idiotic, childish, jackass, to go around looking for trouble, is not very ninja-like.

As for the special you watched on the History Channel, what was the program called? Who was talking about the Ninja and Ninjutsu? What was being said?

Ok, specialists can't agree if ninjas did or didn't exist.

As for the practicing of martial arts, need I remind you of Darth Vader? While he was trained by Jedi most of his life, he didn't practice what he was taught. This also applies to the villains in many martial-arts movies, so who's to say that Scorpion wasn't a loose cannon?

I will admit that his actions in MK:SM and MK:A's Konquest mode seemed out of character. However, I don't believe MK:SM is completely canon and we'll have to wait for Scorpion's bio to discover what took place between MK:D and MK:A... hen we'll have to wait until MK:8 to see what happned in MK:A.

I said this in another topic, but I think it might belong here...

People keep saying that Scorpion's son should take up the mantle, except at this point his son is still dead... unless the elder gods did resurrect Scorpion's clan and family back as undead spectres, just as Scorpion is. Then what would his son possibly do? He'd just be a immitation... unless Scorpion's son and clan were returned to full life, then that would be different.

I can't remember, but wasn't Scorpion's agreement that he too would return to full life? Or was it never stated? Because if Scorpion did become alive again, then that would open alot of doors for him, if only that he'd no longer seek revenge because he and his family are alive again.

i've always liked Scorpion since Mk1, probably always will. still dosen't mean i want him in mk8, but whatever.

Anyways, his story in Mk1 was much better imo, as it was simple and to the point. I liked how all he wanted was revenge on Noob Saibot, instead of Quan Chi. Also, his spear is infamous as is his toasty fatality.

MK2 was much better for him imo, as his story had more depth. He thought everything was done, until he sees a new Sub-Zero! I like his fatalities much more in this game than Mk1, and he looked better graphically talking.

UMK3 had the greatest storyline imo of all the 2d mks. He wanted to atone for killing Noob Saibot as to protect Sub-Zero, and i thought that was cool. His select screen look was also the coolest imo of all the 2d mks, and his spear seemed more fluid than mk3's.

MK4 gave him a huge story revamp, as he learns that Noob Saibot didn't kill his family! It was actaully Quan Chi, that sneaky bitch! I hated the look of his weapon in MK4, but his fatalties were cool.

MKDA gave him a hugely diffrent costume, and it looked awesome! His story really only was about killing Quan Chi, and this is when his story really goes downhill. His fataltie was cool, but his alt costume imo looked cooler than his primary.

MKD really set in stone his horrible story to return, as it was the same as MKDA. His new look was great, though, and i liked his new specials. His alt costume looked great as well.

MKSM really gave him no new storyline, but a new look that i wished was his alt costume in MKA. He played well in SM, but imo was too dammn sloow.

MKA really hasn't changed his story much, unfortuantely. There is no original fatalties in this game, so nothing to talk about there. I hope his bio in this game is great.

All in all, i like Scorpion but he needs a 100% diffrent storyline in MK8 for him to be respectable again.

I don't know why people care more about a character's story than the character. The stories are great and can be used to make a character more interesting and seem more alive, but the character is more important... I think.

Meh. I think the idea of his son taking over is stupid and hokey. Scorpion's clan and family should stay dead. When Scorpion became Champion of the Elder Gods, he agreed to take care of Onaga as long as the Elder Gods make sure to resurrect his clan. There's no mention of his family unless the family is part of the clan.



Well, the thing is that the story and character generally go together, so both combined are important.

As for the Ninja stuff, it's complicated. You still haven't answered my questions about the program you watched. I'd really like to know what was being said, who said it, etc.

I'm sure his family was a part of his clan.

I guess I didn't read the question. Honestly, I can't remember the name of it, it was about a half a year ago. I'm sure it'll come back on eventually.

I think Midway really needs to improve Scorpion...and not in the moves category,but in the Storyline category.

I mean,his storyline is basically always the same:

MK1:Scorpion is killed by Noob Saibot,and he wants REVENGE on him,and kills him.

MK2:Protects Younger Sub Zero...but this gets retconned...

UMK3: Walks around the Netherealm until he is released...fights Kahn because he wants to protect Younger Sub Zero...also retconned.

MK4:Because of retcon he wants to kill Sub Zero....again. Then he finds out Quan Chi killed his family,and now he wants REVENGE on him.

MKDA:Scorpion wants REVENGE on Quan Chi...gets beaten by the Oni and thrown into Portal.

MKD:He's the Elder Gods champion-type person.And uh...he's basically a good guy.

MKSM:Because of the retcon...he wants REVENGE on Liu Kang,Kung Lao,and Sub Zero.

MKA:Scorpion wants even more REVENGE on the Elder Gods.

MKA Ending:Scorpion wants REVENGE on Quan Chi again.

MK8 and more: Most likely he'll want more revenge....yet again.

I shall now literally tear your argument into shriveling pieces...

Need not. Since there are no nationality or ethnicity classed as barbari-ans, they did not exist. Barbaricum DID exist however, a term coined by the late Roman and later the Latin Empire. It referred to the northern parcells of the river Danubes flow. Barbarians were longobards, visigoths, ostro-goths, markomanni et. None of theese (all eastern or western germanic tribes) used extensive devastation save for the sack of Rome by the van-dals. Hence your word for vandalism.

**

MongOls were not barbarians, infact, the Golden horde under the banner of Temüyin, or more commonly know by his rank, Genghis Khan were one of the most precautious army ever. They did commit a number of atrocities such as piling corpses etc. but the whole mongol tacticianship revovledf on one basic note:

-light cavalry archers who feigned retreat and lead the enemy through se-veral ambushes, while fighting backwards with arrows. Mongol feetmen were a rarity. Their most esteemed generals, Subotai Baathurs notes dic-tate precautiousness. how do I know this? I am hungarian, and when the Pope dictates a prayer around 821 what has the following line....
Gaed sevth ous vom Ungur arrows. (oh god save us from hungarian arrows).

**

Baer Serk. Berserk. berserker. Not battlerage. Serk is norish for fur, or furcoat. berserkers were feetmen bestowed with leather and one hand swords, spears or hatchet axes. Some of them indeed used herbal remedies that worked as psychedelic boosters, drugs essentially.

The manuscripts and most importantly stuff like Chronica Frankorum circa 11th c. actually describes the gfranks as more battle-thirsty then the vikings.

Ninjas were by definite agents, not warriors. Sure, several of them were warriors by trade and helped the sporadic monasteries (the ninja were developing from secluded monastic orders and so called underground organizations simultaneously) develop a self-defense style. Alot of people
exaggerate the ninja assassin skills as unique, but in truth all of their me-thods were well known to almost all named asassins by the 15800s.

Such fearful warrior-assailants were the mongol Mangudai, the arabian Aiashashin (Feyidn, or hashashin, nothing to do with their speculated ha-shish consumption...) and chinese bureocrat-warriors in the court of the Mandate of Heaven. So to speak, ninjas just evovled into traditionally what every other nations assassins did, only they were mosre specific thanks to the isolationist nature of Japan. nothing more. Talking about Ninpo and Taijutsu in general could have implication of the general difference bet-ween the European or several Asian races (rassi).

Or to conlude this: you upright reasons were systematically disproved.

Used literature: Chronica Francorum, one of Masaaki Hatsumis works,
and Edelsteins Normanns.

So Daisuke Togakure, the founder of what would be known as Togakure Ryu Ninpo Taijutsu Happo Hiken, and his descendants, weren't warriors? Hanzo Hattori, believed by some to be an Iga Jonin, wasn't a warrior? Tozawa Hakuunsai, the supposed founder of Gyokko Ryu Ninpo Shitojutsu Happo Hiken, wasn't a warrior?? If so, I find that very difficult to believe.

The Ninja consisted of people from different groups, namely low-level Samurai and their families, outcasts, somewhat rarely high-level Samurai, etc.

About the different fighting styles associated with the Ninja (Gyokko Ryu, Togakure Ryu, Koto Ryu, etc.), there aren't really any records that mention such. There are lots of skeptics, mainly those that come from academic backgrounds, that discredit the legitimacy of these particular martial arts styles, especially Togakure Ryu, which claims 34 generations of lineage.

For it to have that many generations would make it the oldest of the Koryu. The only two styles that I can think of that are the oldest in Japan, and this is excluding Sumai, would be Tenshin Shoden Katori Shinto Ryu Heiho, which has about 20 generations and goes back to around 1447, and Tenshin Hyoho Kukishin Ryu Bujutsu, which is said to go back to the 1300s or so and has 28 generations if I'm not mistaken.

It is most likely that Togakure Ryu, Gyokko Ryu, and Koto Ryu had certain proto-versions of themselves that were not formalized styles long ago and became formalized around the 1500s. It is said that Gyokko Ryu and Koto Ryu became formalized schools around 1532, which isn't farfetched.

Ninja assassin? This is yet another bad image given to the Ninja. This is not to say that there weren't Ninja who didn't do any assassinations. It's just that to use such a label as "Ninja assassin" is erroneous. Things like assassinations, betrayals, etc. were common in the Sengoku Jidai (Warring States Period), a time when the country was divided and people were looking out for their own interests.

The Ninja were warriors who specialized in unconventional tactics.



And that says what about Ninpo and Taijutsu?

Which of Hatsumi's literary works did you derive this information from? I hope this isn't from something like Ninjutsu: History and Tradition.

Careful with the implications of the words of warriorm, soldier, or even weapon handler. Sure, generally more or less of them did evolve from exiled or otherwise imposed/impaired orders or cults..

But to say that ninja, or even better, the tradition of morally ambiguous warfare roots within established ninja clans is false. Well beore japanese conquest, post-Yamato priests secluded in mountains gave the basis for the elusive gatherings.

I generally pass the stafete down to you, out of the orient, the ninja interest me the slightest, and my fondness for eastern martial arts have all but decayed in comparison to the materials which I actually learn.

Again, which of Hatsumi's literary works did you derive this information from?

Why should I be careful with th implications of words like warrior when referring to people like Daisuke Togakure? To say that the Ninja weren't warriors, when many of them are or were of Samurai status, is just ridiculous, and it makes me question just where exactly you picked up that idea from.

When it comes to priests secluded in mountains, I take it you're referring to practicioners of Shugendo, yes? If not, I don't know what the hell you're talking about.

Anyway, to try to steer back to the topic, I wouldn't mind it if Scorpion killed Quan Chi and had his soul finally rest. Then again, I know that won't happen with him being Boon's favorite. I just hope he can be redeemed.

Scorpion is most people's favorite. He and Sub-Zero are Mortal Kombat's poster boys... even people who don't know anything about Mortal Kombat know who they are.