queve Wrote:
To Mick-Lucifer:
Typically Poison Ivy is one of the most physically removed from her combative situations as a recurring Batman villain. Her role is as seductress, manipulator, and activist, content tolet bewitched pawns do her fighting for her, if not the animated plantlife she caretakes.
Great post! Thanks for sharing your views Mick.
Now, ehem: she is a badass. I guess that despite the different opinions, very few can disagree that her exotic uniqueness makes her worthy of a spot.
... Because a small handful of people said she's
perfect without actually having any kind of grounded opinion, or reference? I'd like to think there's a pretty hefty divide between
very few people agreeing, and
very few people being satisfied to use a lot of words to describe little more than awful (movie) hair and a leaf bikini...
I mean, if we're changing up the nature of a character for the sake of an outfit, let's throw some textures on Jade and dye her hair. Very few can disagree it's the way to go! Or, y'know... Can...
queve Wrote:
Sure, you could cram some basic martial arts into a Poison Ivy build, but with the pantheon of characters available to be sourced, she has to sit particularly low on the priority list.
That’s probably true, which is very sad imo. Like said before, she has a lot more to offer then another super sized muscle figure that owns the power of super-duper-mega strength.
Particularly as plant summoning specials, though potentially visually interesting, go against the established conceits of how moves are generated and interact with environments.
Hmmmm, I don’t see much of a problem in here unless we are talking about a game that will present a rather mediocre use of its engine potential. You are probably think of way too complicated special moves. She can easily adjust to the rest of the cast with stunning visuals.
As already described, it's really not an MK conceit to have a fighter specifically removed from their fight. The closest comparisons that come to mind, at least in terms of specials that aren't generated by the character, would be Shinnok/Scorpion's hell hand, which has it's own logics thanks to a portal in the ground.
Spontaneously manifesting plantlife in even the most barren of landscapes, and being physically removed from a fight, are much more in keeping with some of Capcom's ideals. It just isn't remotely suggestive of anything logically expected of MK. Not inherently a bad thing, but in this case, as already thoroughly described, a footnote of more pressing inadequacies.
queve Wrote:
As a Konquest mini-boss controlling the living forest, sure!
LOL! That actually made me laugh, and now that you mention it, it would be awesome to see her interaction with the Living Forest...perhaps she could even do more to add a “dark beauty” to it.
If they could build a long and involving Konquest plot, I could see Poison Ivy getting dragged along by more prominent and relevant villains re:
the Society. Would be a fun mini-boss!
queve Wrote:
Again, a shame. While Hawkman does offer a small degree of novelty...Powergirl (despite me really liking her) is just, in a very rudimentary way of speaking, Superman with boobs...big boobs.
Hard to disagree. I think the inclusion of a character like Powergirl is going to really hinge on the MK team's ability to explore facets of each power and use the multiple characters as an opportunity to develop distinct abilities derived from said powers.
Hawkman would be fun just because it's Hawkman, but with the changes implemented, the burning question remains: To mace, or not to mace?
Guys like Hawkman come ready-made with MK-style weapons at the ready. If you want to talk about perfect picks, I'd like to think there's a niche argument
there!
queve Wrote:
As one of a kind, she's arguably trumped by more overt vegetation vanguards like Swamp Thing, or at a real stretch, Floronic Man. Certainly Swamp Thing presents the most compelling argument for a comparable replacement who, is potentially far more visually intriguing, more associated with the dark corners of the DCU (ala MK), and is a bruiser to boot.
Now, I sincerely disagree. I really like the Swamp Thing, but neither him or Floronic dude have enough in their hands to offer something that Poison Ivy couldn’t offer, and even better. Between the three, she is the most recognizable.
Floronic Man doesn't get a look in, but I think Swamp Thing is such a general concept, most people would recognise him
long before the forgettable Uma Thurman character. I would have to imagine a lot of people who could name Swamp Thing aren't even aware he's a comic character, let alone a DC hero.
Swamp Thing just taps into very recognisable monster culture...
queve Wrote:
There's certainly very little in her print-history to suggest any kind of relevance in a situation like Mortal Kombat vs DC Universe. I honestly don't think she'd have even crossed my mind had I not been reading the name here
How so? How does she have less “relevance” then the likes of Supergirl, or say Kabal, or even Flash? In what sense of the word are you trying to use “relevance”, because as far as Im concerned, specially regarding this fighting project, her relevance would be very well greeted.
Is that a serious question? Incarnations of Supergirl and Flash have had some of their career defining moments emerge in interdimensional struggles!
Both are at the forefront of the Justice League and not at all unexpected to respond to cosmic catastrophe such as the merging-invasion of MK characters. Heck, both make a regular habit of travelling through time and space and are fully equipped to combat any emerging threats...
Kabal isn't without his logics -- he's a martial artist intrinsicly connected to this world by his associations -- but
I certainly wouldn't champion his cause over other characters.
He certainly has more connection and ability to compete with events likely to be described in MKvsDC.
queve Wrote:(versus 100+ other characters). As a side note, I’ve been following those awesome posts! HUGE amazing stuff has been written there, and though I think I disagreed with a few, I overall enjoy reading all of that well thought and sometimes funny stuff. Question: Is it your work? Did you have any involvement with it? For some reason I think you do.
Yeah, that's me.
queve Wrote:
If this was a Capcom game, Batman game, or action/adventure title, maybe! But with only a dozen-or-so slots available, very little of this argument is even remotely compelling.
If you are saying that because there’s more “iconic” characters, then I can see your point. Aside from that, she is just as capable (and even more) and worthy as “WonderWoman”, just to give an example.
I don't think there's a single character that's been discussed that doesn't beat your average Poison Ivy in a heartbeat.
Iconic has somehow become the overblown buzzword by which everything's being defined.
Sure, it's a factor, and Poison Ivy is trumped by a long list of more recognisable and marketable characters. She's even challenged by a similar character in Swamp Thing, who, despite not being an A-lister probably has a cult fanbase that would rival any slash-fiction/bat villain fanclubs I'm assuming exist. (Swamp Thing also has the critical acclaim of Alan Moore on him)
Poison Ivy is nowhere near as capable a fighter as the
Amazon princess, Wonder Woman. It just isn't a debate...
queve Wrote:
LOL, youah, you should read them! But honestly, there still hasn’t been a solid point, strong enough, for me to consider her involvement obsolete in this entire thread, not one bit
Remind me again... What's the reason for her being there?...
I think the difference between both of us saying this is that there are pretty intrinsic reasons well described
not to include the character. There don't seem to be a lot
for inclusion, aside from tweaking Jade's wardrobe and defying MK logics... Most of the pro-argument seems to be a lot of uninformed head nodding...
queve Wrote:Mick-Lucifer Wrote:So far the argument for being perfect seems to boil down to having a pretty green frock...
Capcom-styled specials, non-existant fighting skills, irrelevance in the scope of the event, and total mortal vulnerability. Is this a perfect character for an MK/DC crossover, or a fetish?...
Woah, you are underestimating her man!
I seriously need to get my hands on those comics.
And again, “irrelevance in the scope of the event” is a pretty ironic choice of words...considering the actual events, don’t you think?
Comics are the last thing that's going to help your argument...
How is Poison Ivy's irrelevance in the cosmic landscape ironic? She's a small scope environmentally themed villain who
occasionally adds manipulative abilities to a much larger stable of more important and proactive characters.
The heroes and villains we've seen (and will probably continue to see) all have a stake and implied relevance to an interdimensional catastrophe. Even Batman, who consistently plays above his weight, just in case anyone unclear about the Justice League strategist's relevance...
Poison Ivy, despite her super "potential," remains a street level presence butting heads with Batman in Gotham because she (usually) cannot readily compete with bigger threats. Any environmental bargains used to lure her aid to the fight are quickly trumped by the relative obscurity of the character making her incredibly unlikely on the checklist of characters to be tapped -- and the fact that her powers have very little stock in this kind of battle.
Irrelevance; confirmed.
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