About Me
0
TheNinjasRock071394 Wrote:
Yes you only used facts from the CURRENT canon mortal kombat, yet you fail to see that this is a retelling and SHIT GETS CHANGED
TemperaryUserName Wrote:
I used a ton of facts. I mentioned his only two dramatic premises in MK3, along with... you know what, this is not worth it. Trying to explain literary theory to someone who won't read is pretty much the same thing as arguing with a wooden board with someone's face drawn on it. You can't make someone understand if they have already decided they don't want to understand.
TheNinjasRock071394 Wrote:Get Back to me when you have fact and not opinion
I used a ton of facts. I mentioned his only two dramatic premises in MK3, along with... you know what, this is not worth it. Trying to explain literary theory to someone who won't read is pretty much the same thing as arguing with a wooden board with someone's face drawn on it. You can't make someone understand if they have already decided they don't want to understand.
Yes you only used facts from the CURRENT canon mortal kombat, yet you fail to see that this is a retelling and SHIT GETS CHANGED
Let's try this again...
This game has been described by both Boon and Hans as "a remake with a twist." In order for Human Smoke to have a story that rivals his cybernetic counterpart, you would have to drastically change his relationship to the conflict. There were characters who were much better integrated into the story that still couldn't match Cyber Smoke's story in quality.
The fact is (and yes, it is a fact), is that Cyber Smoke has three more literary tools at his disposal than Human Smoke does not. That would be the tragic fall, situational irony, and the redemption theme.
I'm not even against Human Smoke! Whether I want him in the game or not completely depends on sequel path the developers are going to take. But I'd be kidding myself if I thought Human Smoke could have a better story than Cyber Smoke in MK3.
And that last phrase is important: in MK3. I'm not going to base my decision on unknowable future stories the developers may not even decide to include Smoke in.
MK Khronology: 58.49% complete...TemperaryUserName Wrote:
I can't believe people are even comparing Sektor and Cyrax's automation to Smoke's. The first two were volunteers while the latter WAS A FUCKING RAPE VICTIM! Can people seriously not see why that has more meaning?
Dramatic value comes from character relationships. Cyrax and Sektor aren't sentient; they can't even fucking think much less have relationships with other characters! Before we go further, let's look at the components of Smoke's MK3 storyline:
1) Automated not only against his will, but right after his failed escape effort.
2) Was left behind by his ally, who now has to live with the guilt abandoning his friend to an artificial damnation.
3) Has to FIGHT his friend. I'll repeat that: he has to FUCKING FIGHT his friend. Not only does Sub-Zero have to carry the guilt of allowing his buddy become a monstrosity, but now he has to violently resist him in order to preserve his own life.
4) Regains his memory, and in beautiful irony, is able to fight along side the person he was suppose to kill.
Those tragic and ironic elements are not possible with Cyrax and Sektor alone. Razor is right: the best writer in the world couldn't give human Smoke a better story than Cyber-Smoke; human Smoke simply has less dramatic premises at his disposal. Specially, he's got two. The first being his friendship with Sub-Zero, and the second being his evasion of the Lin Kuei. In other words, if Smoke stays human, he becomes the Kung Lao equivalent of the Sub-Zero storyline. You could add more premises, but that would just fuck up MK3's story structure.
I can't believe people are even comparing Sektor and Cyrax's automation to Smoke's. The first two were volunteers while the latter WAS A FUCKING RAPE VICTIM! Can people seriously not see why that has more meaning?
Dramatic value comes from character relationships. Cyrax and Sektor aren't sentient; they can't even fucking think much less have relationships with other characters! Before we go further, let's look at the components of Smoke's MK3 storyline:
1) Automated not only against his will, but right after his failed escape effort.
2) Was left behind by his ally, who now has to live with the guilt abandoning his friend to an artificial damnation.
3) Has to FIGHT his friend. I'll repeat that: he has to FUCKING FIGHT his friend. Not only does Sub-Zero have to carry the guilt of allowing his buddy become a monstrosity, but now he has to violently resist him in order to preserve his own life.
4) Regains his memory, and in beautiful irony, is able to fight along side the person he was suppose to kill.
Those tragic and ironic elements are not possible with Cyrax and Sektor alone. Razor is right: the best writer in the world couldn't give human Smoke a better story than Cyber-Smoke; human Smoke simply has less dramatic premises at his disposal. Specially, he's got two. The first being his friendship with Sub-Zero, and the second being his evasion of the Lin Kuei. In other words, if Smoke stays human, he becomes the Kung Lao equivalent of the Sub-Zero storyline. You could add more premises, but that would just fuck up MK3's story structure.
Respectable points, all.
Now, there was a time when I agreed absolutely with you, but, long story short, after MKDC came out, I went back and took a good long look one day at the MK series, and I started seeing its flaws for the first real time. One of those, I perceive, is - no offense, Temp - a greatly overblown sense of tragedy re: Smoke's friendship with Sub-Zero, his capture and forced conversion. We get that they're friends and allies, and Sub believes that there's a man in that shell who wants out, but that can also be read as 'This guy and me, we work well on a team together, play poker Thursday nights. If he were turned into a robot, I'd bet he'd fight it all the way'.
There's just this huge conjecture that they're inseparable blood brothers or some such thing, when they could just as easily be casual friends, drinking buddies, or what have you.
Now, we have absolutely no idea how Smoke was captured. I remarked earlier that maybe he covered Sub-Zero, or forced him to get going while he made the ultimate sacrifice in buddy-movie fashion. But all of that is, again, conjecture or assumption, just as it is to assume that they actually did fight before Sub-Zero helped Smoke recover his memories. Maybe he just tackled him, held him down and spoke until something clicked in Smoke's circuits.
It is one thing to read a book that opens with a character being viciously wronged in a horrible fashion, so that it becomes a defining aspect of that character, and another to read one where the vicious wronging takes place further on in, so that it changes the perception of the character, becomes a major event in his life, and leaves them changed. The problem with the original canon was that Smoke was unquestionably the former. He was some guy whose personality we have no sense of that became a robot. It needs to change. Though that can certainly all happen within the space of this single game, I mentioned earlier that we could spend this game developing Smoke's personality, and in the next, have him captured by Sektor and the Tekunin, automated then. The same effect would then be accomplished, with the bonus of added buildup to their confrontation, and a personal dimension added to Sub-Zero's fight against Sektor - "you're going to pay for what you did to my friend".
I am not against Smoke becoming mechanized, now or later, on the condition that his personality is first and foremost established. But at the same time, I must acknowledge that leaving him human can open up possibilities for future tragedies built on more solid foundations than his MK3 story was. Leaving Smoke human does not and should not mean that he becomes the Kung Lao to Sub's Liu Kang, or that he has to go evil. They can be made to confront each other without any of that, if the right topics of ideology are brought up. I have a few ideas of my own along those lines, and I can post them up perhaps tomorrow if folks so desire. For now, I am running on 3 hours' rest in the last 24, and must convert myself...to sleep mode.
0
Fact is, none of us really know what changes are going to happen in this game. The REAL purpose behind it, is to make things more fleshed out, and to tell the story better this time, with necessary changes to make everything make better sense, and fit as a whole. Before, they did things 1 game at a time, and for the first couple, they likely didn't even think ahead to any sort of degree when making the character's stories, so nothing was really fleshed out as well as it could have been.
This is a time to right wrongs, explain things better or differently in order to make the story better. People look at this and think them saying "It's gonna be the same story with a twist" and automatically take that as being all there is to it. When in fact, the truth of the matter is, the whole reason for this game is because they painted themselves into a corner with Armageddon. They knew they had nowhere else to go, so rather than starting all over and killing off a bunch of beloved characters, they decided to re-write the story, and this time take it in a different direction thus avoiding the whole armageddon ending. We have ZERO clue as to what types of things will change, because we have yet to see anything story related besides the basic premise of it all.
With all this considered, anything is possible. They've said in multiple interviews that certain characters will change beyond what we've come to expect from them.
This is a time to right wrongs, explain things better or differently in order to make the story better. People look at this and think them saying "It's gonna be the same story with a twist" and automatically take that as being all there is to it. When in fact, the truth of the matter is, the whole reason for this game is because they painted themselves into a corner with Armageddon. They knew they had nowhere else to go, so rather than starting all over and killing off a bunch of beloved characters, they decided to re-write the story, and this time take it in a different direction thus avoiding the whole armageddon ending. We have ZERO clue as to what types of things will change, because we have yet to see anything story related besides the basic premise of it all.
With all this considered, anything is possible. They've said in multiple interviews that certain characters will change beyond what we've come to expect from them.
0
Haha, got so caught up in the Smoke debate I forgot about the actual purpose of this thread.
6.) Tanya
5.) Rain
4.) Shinnok
3.) Kenshi
2/1.) New character
1/2.) Cyborg-Smoke
Note: One and two can really be swapped for each other as I couldn't come to a really definite decision on which I would prefer. I just knew I preferred those two over the others by lots.
6.) Tanya
5.) Rain
4.) Shinnok
3.) Kenshi
2/1.) New character
1/2.) Cyborg-Smoke
Note: One and two can really be swapped for each other as I couldn't come to a really definite decision on which I would prefer. I just knew I preferred those two over the others by lots.
About Me
0
Shadaloo Wrote:
Respectable points, all.
Now, there was a time when I agreed absolutely with you, but, long story short, after MKDC came out, I went back and took a good long look one day at the MK series, and I started seeing its flaws for the first real time. One of those, I perceive, is - no offense, Temp - a greatly overblown sense of tragedy re: Smoke's friendship with Sub-Zero, his capture and forced conversion. We get that they're friends and allies, and Sub believes that there's a man in that shell who wants out, but that can also be read as 'This guy and me, we work well on a team together, play poker Thursday nights. If he were turned into a robot, I'd bet he'd fight it all the way'.
There's just this huge conjecture that they're inseparable blood brothers or some such thing, when they could just as easily be casual friends, drinking buddies, or what have you.
Respectable points, all.
Now, there was a time when I agreed absolutely with you, but, long story short, after MKDC came out, I went back and took a good long look one day at the MK series, and I started seeing its flaws for the first real time. One of those, I perceive, is - no offense, Temp - a greatly overblown sense of tragedy re: Smoke's friendship with Sub-Zero, his capture and forced conversion. We get that they're friends and allies, and Sub believes that there's a man in that shell who wants out, but that can also be read as 'This guy and me, we work well on a team together, play poker Thursday nights. If he were turned into a robot, I'd bet he'd fight it all the way'.
There's just this huge conjecture that they're inseparable blood brothers or some such thing, when they could just as easily be casual friends, drinking buddies, or what have you.
It is true that Smoke and Sub-Zero probably didn't have this Snake-Otacon bond going... but would they need to? But let's say they are friend's on the most basic level, which I presume would mean they have a mutual respect for each other and hold up their relationship as something valuable. That would be enough for Sub-Zero to be absolutely mortified at what happened. If they don't at least have that type of relationship, I would argue they're not friends.
The thing is that the second scenario you mentioned sounds more like an acquaintance than a friend. It's funny you mention the team example too, because when I have to work with people at my job regularly, the relationship is rarely that neutral. I either love or dread the person.
Shadaloo Wrote:
It's true that we don't know how they escaped, but even if they're escapes were unrelated events, I still think it's adequate that someone Sub-Zero cared about was automated. That's really all the foundation ya need.
For the record though, the sacrifice theory does explain a lot of the data. It explains why Sub-Zero escaped and Smoke didn't. Perhaps Sub-Zero was just the faster runner, but isn't Smoke a stealth-master?
Another thing is that the sacrifice theory explains Smoke's alignment. If you think about it, wouldn't evading the Lin Kuei simply earn him a neutral status? I mean, Bi-Han wasn't exceptionally evil, but when he went to the Netherrealm, he turned into a wraith. When Smoke went into the Netherrealm, he started spazzing out like a chicken without a head. I think it's safe to interpret that as Smoke had real moral attributes. Sub-Zero too displayed moral tendencies, so if he was friends with Smoke, it's not unreasonable to believe Smoke shared some of those sentiments. Maybe that's why they're friends.
Actually, somewhat I agree. If John Vogel broke into my house in the middle of the night and violently shook me from sleep saying, "Listen Temp, I'll give you a choice. You can have Smoke stay human but have an inferior story, or you could choose for him to be automated in MK2011 only to have him rock out the trophy room for two more games!!!"
After I stopped screaming, I'd probably pick the first choice. Ideally though, the Noob Smoke storyline should have happened in MK4, not MK6.
EDIT: Although I don't know if I'd take the automation route later on if it were removed from the MK3 storyline. I don't think it would have the same effect since Smoke was raised into the Lin Kuei clan. Being automated by Sektor wouldn't be tragic on the same level. Instead, I'd capitalize on the experiences Smoke underwent in MK3 and see how far that develops him. I know that sounds kind of contradictory to what I said earlier, but if Smoke has to be human, I say go all the way with it.
It really just depends on the route they take. But remember, the thesis I was defending in my initial post was not that Smoke should be automated in MK2011, but that Human Smoke within the confinement of the MK3 storyline cannot logically have a better story than Cyber Smoke. He doesn't have the dramatic premises to do it.
It's true that we don't know how they escaped, but even if they're escapes were unrelated events, I still think it's adequate that someone Sub-Zero cared about was automated. That's really all the foundation ya need.
For the record though, the sacrifice theory does explain a lot of the data. It explains why Sub-Zero escaped and Smoke didn't. Perhaps Sub-Zero was just the faster runner, but isn't Smoke a stealth-master?
Another thing is that the sacrifice theory explains Smoke's alignment. If you think about it, wouldn't evading the Lin Kuei simply earn him a neutral status? I mean, Bi-Han wasn't exceptionally evil, but when he went to the Netherrealm, he turned into a wraith. When Smoke went into the Netherrealm, he started spazzing out like a chicken without a head. I think it's safe to interpret that as Smoke had real moral attributes. Sub-Zero too displayed moral tendencies, so if he was friends with Smoke, it's not unreasonable to believe Smoke shared some of those sentiments. Maybe that's why they're friends.
Shadaloo Wrote:
It is one thing to read a book that opens with a character being viciously wronged in a horrible fashion, so that it becomes a defining aspect of that character, and another to read one where the vicious wronging takes place further on in, so that it changes the perception of the character, becomes a major event in his life, and leaves them changed. The problem with the original canon was that Smoke was unquestionably the former. He was some guy whose personality we have no sense of that became a robot. It needs to change. Though that can certainly all happen within the space of this single game, I mentioned earlier that we could spend this game developing Smoke's personality, and in the next, have him captured by Sektor and the Tekunin, automated then. The same effect would then be accomplished, with the bonus of added buildup to their confrontation, and a personal dimension added to Sub-Zero's fight against Sektor - "you're going to pay for what you did to my friend".
It is one thing to read a book that opens with a character being viciously wronged in a horrible fashion, so that it becomes a defining aspect of that character, and another to read one where the vicious wronging takes place further on in, so that it changes the perception of the character, becomes a major event in his life, and leaves them changed. The problem with the original canon was that Smoke was unquestionably the former. He was some guy whose personality we have no sense of that became a robot. It needs to change. Though that can certainly all happen within the space of this single game, I mentioned earlier that we could spend this game developing Smoke's personality, and in the next, have him captured by Sektor and the Tekunin, automated then. The same effect would then be accomplished, with the bonus of added buildup to their confrontation, and a personal dimension added to Sub-Zero's fight against Sektor - "you're going to pay for what you did to my friend".
Actually, somewhat I agree. If John Vogel broke into my house in the middle of the night and violently shook me from sleep saying, "Listen Temp, I'll give you a choice. You can have Smoke stay human but have an inferior story, or you could choose for him to be automated in MK2011 only to have him rock out the trophy room for two more games!!!"
After I stopped screaming, I'd probably pick the first choice. Ideally though, the Noob Smoke storyline should have happened in MK4, not MK6.
EDIT: Although I don't know if I'd take the automation route later on if it were removed from the MK3 storyline. I don't think it would have the same effect since Smoke was raised into the Lin Kuei clan. Being automated by Sektor wouldn't be tragic on the same level. Instead, I'd capitalize on the experiences Smoke underwent in MK3 and see how far that develops him. I know that sounds kind of contradictory to what I said earlier, but if Smoke has to be human, I say go all the way with it.
Shadaloo Wrote:
I am not against Smoke becoming mechanized, now or later, on the condition that his personality is first and foremost established. But at the same time, I must acknowledge that leaving him human can open up possibilities for future tragedies built on more solid foundations than his MK3 story was. Leaving Smoke human does not and should not mean that he becomes the Kung Lao to Sub's Liu Kang, or that he has to go evil. They can be made to confront each other without any of that, if the right topics of ideology are brought up. I have a few ideas of my own along those lines, and I can post them up perhaps tomorrow if folks so desire. For now, I am running on 3 hours' rest in the last 24, and must convert myself...to sleep mode.
I am not against Smoke becoming mechanized, now or later, on the condition that his personality is first and foremost established. But at the same time, I must acknowledge that leaving him human can open up possibilities for future tragedies built on more solid foundations than his MK3 story was. Leaving Smoke human does not and should not mean that he becomes the Kung Lao to Sub's Liu Kang, or that he has to go evil. They can be made to confront each other without any of that, if the right topics of ideology are brought up. I have a few ideas of my own along those lines, and I can post them up perhaps tomorrow if folks so desire. For now, I am running on 3 hours' rest in the last 24, and must convert myself...to sleep mode.
It really just depends on the route they take. But remember, the thesis I was defending in my initial post was not that Smoke should be automated in MK2011, but that Human Smoke within the confinement of the MK3 storyline cannot logically have a better story than Cyber Smoke. He doesn't have the dramatic premises to do it.
0
PaletteSwapped Wrote:
Haha, got so caught up in the Smoke debate I forgot about the actual purpose of this thread.
6.) Tanya
5.) Rain
4.) Shinnok
3.) Kenshi
2/1.) New character
1/2.) Cyborg-Smoke
Note: One and two can really be swapped for each other as I couldn't come to a really definite decision on which I would prefer. I just knew I preferred those two over the others by lots.
Haha, got so caught up in the Smoke debate I forgot about the actual purpose of this thread.
6.) Tanya
5.) Rain
4.) Shinnok
3.) Kenshi
2/1.) New character
1/2.) Cyborg-Smoke
Note: One and two can really be swapped for each other as I couldn't come to a really definite decision on which I would prefer. I just knew I preferred those two over the others by lots.
I put a point for both of him since you're undecided on which one but that means they're still tied
I don't agree on how Razor handled this debate.. but i feel for him on it... i mean... a character that was built up for him is being retold and chances are... that Smoke will get to stay human this time.
Razor is just as much a Smoke fan just like anyone else. He just happens to love the Cybernetic Story arc more. I'll admit... at first... i HATED Cyborg Smoke.. but he kinda grew on me as the tragic character. And i hated that they shafted his mk3 ending so he can be a war trophy in Shao Kahn's dungeon. I wanted the Smoke ending to be were he regain his sence of who he is... and join Sub-Zero in his fight agains Cyrax and Sektor.
I would have to disagree with Razor on the Cyrax and Sektor... i think deep down.. the two grown into well developes characters.
I'm very pleased and happy to think that Human Smoke is here to stay but.. should he not... i'll still like him regardless... i just hope he doesn't get shafted this time. I want better for him as either human or cyborg.
I'm not poster boy of rightious... i myself am guity of bashing other peoples ideas when if came to my favorite character Noob Saibot.
I love the Sub-Zero Bi-Han's connection with him... Explains the ninja like appearance. and explains why Bi-Han was the only character to be left out since MK1. ("I know Classic Sub-Zero was in the Trilogy, but since that got recon, its pretty much MK1 to me") But if Bi-Han had his second chance... i would be mad for a bit about the loss of my favorite character.. But i would eventually i get over it... and would pray the Bi-Han would impress me with his second chance to shine.
As fans we tend to forget that this is Ed's story... and he tells it the way he wants it...
Ed may or may not please us with his vision of direction. But it is his to make. He is one of the creators of Mortal Kombat. Despites directions i was always impressed with Mortal Kombat
Peace.
Razor is just as much a Smoke fan just like anyone else. He just happens to love the Cybernetic Story arc more. I'll admit... at first... i HATED Cyborg Smoke.. but he kinda grew on me as the tragic character. And i hated that they shafted his mk3 ending so he can be a war trophy in Shao Kahn's dungeon. I wanted the Smoke ending to be were he regain his sence of who he is... and join Sub-Zero in his fight agains Cyrax and Sektor.
I would have to disagree with Razor on the Cyrax and Sektor... i think deep down.. the two grown into well developes characters.
I'm very pleased and happy to think that Human Smoke is here to stay but.. should he not... i'll still like him regardless... i just hope he doesn't get shafted this time. I want better for him as either human or cyborg.
I'm not poster boy of rightious... i myself am guity of bashing other peoples ideas when if came to my favorite character Noob Saibot.
I love the Sub-Zero Bi-Han's connection with him... Explains the ninja like appearance. and explains why Bi-Han was the only character to be left out since MK1. ("I know Classic Sub-Zero was in the Trilogy, but since that got recon, its pretty much MK1 to me") But if Bi-Han had his second chance... i would be mad for a bit about the loss of my favorite character.. But i would eventually i get over it... and would pray the Bi-Han would impress me with his second chance to shine.
As fans we tend to forget that this is Ed's story... and he tells it the way he wants it...
Ed may or may not please us with his vision of direction. But it is his to make. He is one of the creators of Mortal Kombat. Despites directions i was always impressed with Mortal Kombat
Peace.
About Me
God of War is Back!
0
Peace is a lie. There is only passion.Through passion, I gain strength.Through strength, I gain power.Through power, I gain victory.Through victory my chains are broken.The Force shall free me.—The Sith Code..i say give me new fighter seeing dlc may not affect the story i say dark vader(joke) or maybe the splatter house guy
About Me
God of War is Back!
0
add a sith lord since we got kratos o and scorpion will be the champion of mk this time so this dlc is not needed but i i have to choose its kenshi
Nice too see that all you PIEPS more want a stupid clone of ermac and and a second smoke above an original fucking character Rain and Tanya.
Those are the only ones in that horrible list I want to see return.
I would hate Kenshi and Robo Smoke in the game, I hope this is a joke, I don't hope we see a list that is already included into the game because I hate Kenshi.
And of course BOON lists Kenshi, that is just pure lazyness, they just recycle Ermac and VOILA! Kenshi is created, pure lazyness.
Those are the only ones in that horrible list I want to see return.
I would hate Kenshi and Robo Smoke in the game, I hope this is a joke, I don't hope we see a list that is already included into the game because I hate Kenshi.
And of course BOON lists Kenshi, that is just pure lazyness, they just recycle Ermac and VOILA! Kenshi is created, pure lazyness.
About Me
0
TheNinjasRock071394 Wrote:
Yes you only used facts from the CURRENT canon mortal kombat, yet you fail to see that this is a retelling and SHIT GETS CHANGED
TemperaryUserName Wrote:
I used a ton of facts. I mentioned his only two dramatic premises in MK3, along with... you know what, this is not worth it. Trying to explain literary theory to someone who won't read is pretty much the same thing as arguing with a wooden board with someone's face drawn on it. You can't make someone understand if they have already decided they don't want to understand.
TheNinjasRock071394 Wrote:Get Back to me when you have fact and not opinion
I used a ton of facts. I mentioned his only two dramatic premises in MK3, along with... you know what, this is not worth it. Trying to explain literary theory to someone who won't read is pretty much the same thing as arguing with a wooden board with someone's face drawn on it. You can't make someone understand if they have already decided they don't want to understand.
Yes you only used facts from the CURRENT canon mortal kombat, yet you fail to see that this is a retelling and SHIT GETS CHANGED
By "shit gets changed" do you mean the basic tenants of a character's design and story get changed so much that they are completely unrecognizable storywise and might as well be a new character? Because that's what you're implying.
First of all, Raiden only went back to MK1. He doesn't have the power to fundamentally change anything about any single character's origin, goals, or personality.
Second, have you seen anything from this game? Elder Sub-Zero still died by Scorpion's hand and became Noob Saibot. Younger Sub-Zero still took his place. Most importantly, Cyrax and Sektor are still automated! None of this arc has visibly changed. All of Razor's points are valid.
I have a challenge: write a Star Wars story for me. What would Star Wars III-VI be like if Anakin never went to the dark side? Luke would still have to fight Palpatine and the rest of the Sith, and the story must have some sort of emotional payoff.
Whatever you're thinking of is pretty lame, isn't it? Is that because you're a bad writer, or because of the restrictions placed on the story due to fucking with Vader?
About Me
0
Cyborg_Hero Wrote:
By "shit gets changed" do you mean the basic tenants of a character's design and story get changed so much that they are completely unrecognizable storywise and might as well be a new character? Because that's what you're implying.
First of all, Raiden only went back to MK1. He doesn't have the power to fundamentally change anything about any single character's origin, goals, or personality.
Second, have you seen anything from this game? Elder Sub-Zero still died by Scorpion's hand and became Noob Saibot. Younger Sub-Zero still took his place. Most importantly, Cyrax and Sektor are still automated! None of this arc has visibly changed. All of Razor's points are valid.
I have a challenge: write a Star Wars story for me. What would Star Wars III-VI be like if Anakin never went to the dark side? Luke would still have to fight Palpatine and the rest of the Sith, and the story must have some sort of emotional payoff.
Whatever you're thinking of is pretty lame, isn't it? Is that because you're a bad writer, or because of the restrictions placed on the story due to fucking with Vader?
TheNinjasRock071394 Wrote:
Yes you only used facts from the CURRENT canon mortal kombat, yet you fail to see that this is a retelling and SHIT GETS CHANGED
TemperaryUserName Wrote:
I used a ton of facts. I mentioned his only two dramatic premises in MK3, along with... you know what, this is not worth it. Trying to explain literary theory to someone who won't read is pretty much the same thing as arguing with a wooden board with someone's face drawn on it. You can't make someone understand if they have already decided they don't want to understand.
TheNinjasRock071394 Wrote:Get Back to me when you have fact and not opinion
I used a ton of facts. I mentioned his only two dramatic premises in MK3, along with... you know what, this is not worth it. Trying to explain literary theory to someone who won't read is pretty much the same thing as arguing with a wooden board with someone's face drawn on it. You can't make someone understand if they have already decided they don't want to understand.
Yes you only used facts from the CURRENT canon mortal kombat, yet you fail to see that this is a retelling and SHIT GETS CHANGED
By "shit gets changed" do you mean the basic tenants of a character's design and story get changed so much that they are completely unrecognizable storywise and might as well be a new character? Because that's what you're implying.
First of all, Raiden only went back to MK1. He doesn't have the power to fundamentally change anything about any single character's origin, goals, or personality.
Second, have you seen anything from this game? Elder Sub-Zero still died by Scorpion's hand and became Noob Saibot. Younger Sub-Zero still took his place. Most importantly, Cyrax and Sektor are still automated! None of this arc has visibly changed. All of Razor's points are valid.
I have a challenge: write a Star Wars story for me. What would Star Wars III-VI be like if Anakin never went to the dark side? Luke would still have to fight Palpatine and the rest of the Sith, and the story must have some sort of emotional payoff.
Whatever you're thinking of is pretty lame, isn't it? Is that because you're a bad writer, or because of the restrictions placed on the story due to fucking with Vader?
You really have the IQ of a smashed grapefruit don't you?
You do realize that just because some things don't change doesn't mean everything stays the same. Maybe you should read the rest of the posts before putting in your two cents. The outcome of Certain events being changed in a character's story does not make them a "should have been a new character" type. So that is not what I was implying. Maybe if you asked if that was what I meant instead of just assuming like an asshole, you would be a little respected and have at least some form of credibility
Challenge me to write a star wars story?
1. Where the fuck did star wars come into this?
2. You are asking me to write a set-in-stone story of what would happen as if I said human smoke 100% will have a better story. No, if that is the case you could use some reading classes. I said that he COULD have a better story then Robot-Smoke. Although arrogant pricks who believe they are above everyone else, think that it's not possible because that is their divine thought.
3. Based on #2 idfk for all we know anakin could have killed the sith without going to the darkside before reaching the state we see him in, during the end of the canon star wars.
4. Did I say I was a writer? No I fucking didn't. I didn't say "I AM GONNA WRITE A BETTER STORY FOR HUMAN SMOKE" I said, human smoke could have a better story then robot-smoke. Leave that to the writers of NRS, but don't go around bashing every other story that users make just because it doesn't follow your little worthless opinion when it comes to the bottom line.
The people who claim to be so mature are the most childish here, not because of their opinion but because of their arrogance and how they go about expressing it.
Someone requested a poll of Smoke's different forms. I have luckily made one some time ago, results can be seen here:
Poll of Smoke: Human vs Cyborg vs Demon
Interesting to see Dragon Points on vulgar language after so many pages of similar stuff (not that it would be reasonable at any point). Anyway, I've got to visit our topic of cyborg vs smoke again. Not that I'd want to go back to the same ****storm that wasn't moving anywhere for three pages until now (for reasons obvious) but I must come to one thing. You stated that the theories I made weren't considerable because Smoke has no reason to be evil. Why is that? You do know the old 2d game story didn't have that detailed story anyway. (Compare Batman's simple sidekick Robin who has now become a cool independent character called Nightwing)
I entirely see your comparison with Star Wars and Mortal Kombat, Cyborg_Hero. But can you really compare such an epic story like Star Wars to Mortal Kombat? It's a fighting game series, I repeat: fighting game series, story hasn't ever been in that important role in fighting games. The difference between MK and SW; Star Wars did not fail in story to travel back in time to make it more sensible. You seriously shouldn't compare their plots. One of the biggest reasons why Mortal Kombat can't come to the level of Star wars in plot is because it's a game series. The developers make whatever they want with the story to satisfy players and to make money. That is the main reason why the canon Star Wars: The Force Unleashed II video game fails in story. But fun and gameplay are the most important pieces of a fighting game, NRS isn't making a movie after all.
Whilst Mortal Kombat can be the deepest fighting game series what comes to the plot, it still may not be deep, but when you look at the newer games where people constantly die and come back, it really shouldn't be taken that seriously anyway.
That might have actually been their problem: they tried too much. When it all started, the story's happenings were sensible and easily understandable, but when they had the need of giving us more and more mind-blowing stuff, it just gone ridiculous. At first, Liu Kang got killed which was a shocker, then other more or less significant characters died and bam: Dragon King came in and turned everything upside down. Raiden joined the Deadly Alliance and became evil soon. It doesn't end to this; then there was Blaze who wiped off all the importance of Dragon King, Deadly Alliance and co. Now we will see traveling in time.
As much as I love Mortal Kombat, you may see the same pattern going this time again. As in Mortal Kombat: Deception and Mortal Kombat: Armageddon, you had to go through the 2d era to fully understand the twisted fiasco. We are going to it now if things will be the same and s in the old games, we should have another batch of weirdness coming in the Mortal Kombat 2011 sequel. That will happen, logically, if we will go the same line again as in the historic storyline. Are you with me? It's a conclusion of all acts. This is not what we want though, is it? What bugged me a little with the 2d storyline was also the inclusion of Shao Kahn as a boss in two games repeatedly. Mortal Kombat 3 tried to elongate the goods of our iconic Mortal Kombat II to itself yet still trying to remain independent with all its new characters.
The developers have recycled the 2d era now for ages. Deception, Unchained, Armageddon, Shaolin Monks, DC Universe, cancelled Fire & Ice and now Mortal Kombat 2011. But as you have well noted that the story ofr Mortal Kombat 2011 hasn't had any major changes so far, we will ultimately go towards the same batch of non-sense if the storyline will not have any drastic plot twists. Is that what you want? Because that's where NRS is now trying to espace from. I'm sure that we will have a good and intriguing plot this time; but that is if the plot will be fresh and different, not a retelling. I myself am open to different views of Smoke's future and am not just stuck in one.
Poll of Smoke: Human vs Cyborg vs Demon
Interesting to see Dragon Points on vulgar language after so many pages of similar stuff (not that it would be reasonable at any point). Anyway, I've got to visit our topic of cyborg vs smoke again. Not that I'd want to go back to the same ****storm that wasn't moving anywhere for three pages until now (for reasons obvious) but I must come to one thing. You stated that the theories I made weren't considerable because Smoke has no reason to be evil. Why is that? You do know the old 2d game story didn't have that detailed story anyway. (Compare Batman's simple sidekick Robin who has now become a cool independent character called Nightwing)
I entirely see your comparison with Star Wars and Mortal Kombat, Cyborg_Hero. But can you really compare such an epic story like Star Wars to Mortal Kombat? It's a fighting game series, I repeat: fighting game series, story hasn't ever been in that important role in fighting games. The difference between MK and SW; Star Wars did not fail in story to travel back in time to make it more sensible. You seriously shouldn't compare their plots. One of the biggest reasons why Mortal Kombat can't come to the level of Star wars in plot is because it's a game series. The developers make whatever they want with the story to satisfy players and to make money. That is the main reason why the canon Star Wars: The Force Unleashed II video game fails in story. But fun and gameplay are the most important pieces of a fighting game, NRS isn't making a movie after all.
Whilst Mortal Kombat can be the deepest fighting game series what comes to the plot, it still may not be deep, but when you look at the newer games where people constantly die and come back, it really shouldn't be taken that seriously anyway.
That might have actually been their problem: they tried too much. When it all started, the story's happenings were sensible and easily understandable, but when they had the need of giving us more and more mind-blowing stuff, it just gone ridiculous. At first, Liu Kang got killed which was a shocker, then other more or less significant characters died and bam: Dragon King came in and turned everything upside down. Raiden joined the Deadly Alliance and became evil soon. It doesn't end to this; then there was Blaze who wiped off all the importance of Dragon King, Deadly Alliance and co. Now we will see traveling in time.
As much as I love Mortal Kombat, you may see the same pattern going this time again. As in Mortal Kombat: Deception and Mortal Kombat: Armageddon, you had to go through the 2d era to fully understand the twisted fiasco. We are going to it now if things will be the same and s in the old games, we should have another batch of weirdness coming in the Mortal Kombat 2011 sequel. That will happen, logically, if we will go the same line again as in the historic storyline. Are you with me? It's a conclusion of all acts. This is not what we want though, is it? What bugged me a little with the 2d storyline was also the inclusion of Shao Kahn as a boss in two games repeatedly. Mortal Kombat 3 tried to elongate the goods of our iconic Mortal Kombat II to itself yet still trying to remain independent with all its new characters.
The developers have recycled the 2d era now for ages. Deception, Unchained, Armageddon, Shaolin Monks, DC Universe, cancelled Fire & Ice and now Mortal Kombat 2011. But as you have well noted that the story ofr Mortal Kombat 2011 hasn't had any major changes so far, we will ultimately go towards the same batch of non-sense if the storyline will not have any drastic plot twists. Is that what you want? Because that's where NRS is now trying to espace from. I'm sure that we will have a good and intriguing plot this time; but that is if the plot will be fresh and different, not a retelling. I myself am open to different views of Smoke's future and am not just stuck in one.
Milaana Wrote:
Nice too see that all you PIEPS more want a stupid clone of ermac and and a second smoke above an original fucking character Rain and Tanya.
Those are the only ones in that horrible list I want to see return.
I would hate Kenshi and Robo Smoke in the game, I hope this is a joke, I don't hope we see a list that is already included into the game because I hate Kenshi.
And of course BOON lists Kenshi, that is just pure lazyness, they just recycle Ermac and VOILA! Kenshi is created, pure lazyness.
Nice too see that all you PIEPS more want a stupid clone of ermac and and a second smoke above an original fucking character Rain and Tanya.
Those are the only ones in that horrible list I want to see return.
I would hate Kenshi and Robo Smoke in the game, I hope this is a joke, I don't hope we see a list that is already included into the game because I hate Kenshi.
And of course BOON lists Kenshi, that is just pure lazyness, they just recycle Ermac and VOILA! Kenshi is created, pure lazyness.
What in the world are you talking about? Ermac and Kenshi's moves differ completely last time I checked.
About Me
0
TheNinjasRock071394 Wrote:
You really have the IQ of a smashed grapefruit don't you?
You do realize that just because some things don't change doesn't mean everything stays the same. Maybe you should read the rest of the posts before putting in your two cents.
The outcome of Certain events being changed in a character's story does not make them a "should have been a new character" type. So that is not what I was implying. Maybe if you asked if that was what I meant instead of just assuming like an asshole, you would be a little respected and have at least some form of credibility
Challenge me to write a star wars story?
1. Where the fuck did star wars come into this?
2. You are asking me to write a set-in-stone story of what would happen as if I said human smoke 100% will have a better story. No, if that is the case you could use some reading classes. I said that he COULD have a better story then Robot-Smoke. Although arrogant pricks who believe they are above everyone else, think that it's not possible because that is their divine thought.
3. Based on #2 idfk for all we know anakin could have killed the sith without going to the darkside before reaching the state we see him in, during the end of the canon star wars.
4. Did I say I was a writer? No I fucking didn't. I didn't say "I AM GONNA WRITE A BETTER STORY FOR HUMAN SMOKE" I said, human smoke could have a better story then robot-smoke. Leave that to the writers of NRS, but don't go around bashing every other story that users make just because it doesn't follow your little worthless opinion when it comes to the bottom line.
The people who claim to be so mature are the most childish here, not because of their opinion but because of their arrogance and how they go about expressing it.
Cyborg_Hero Wrote:
By "shit gets changed" do you mean the basic tenants of a character's design and story get changed so much that they are completely unrecognizable storywise and might as well be a new character? Because that's what you're implying.
First of all, Raiden only went back to MK1. He doesn't have the power to fundamentally change anything about any single character's origin, goals, or personality.
Second, have you seen anything from this game? Elder Sub-Zero still died by Scorpion's hand and became Noob Saibot. Younger Sub-Zero still took his place. Most importantly, Cyrax and Sektor are still automated! None of this arc has visibly changed. All of Razor's points are valid.
I have a challenge: write a Star Wars story for me. What would Star Wars III-VI be like if Anakin never went to the dark side? Luke would still have to fight Palpatine and the rest of the Sith, and the story must have some sort of emotional payoff.
Whatever you're thinking of is pretty lame, isn't it? Is that because you're a bad writer, or because of the restrictions placed on the story due to fucking with Vader?
TheNinjasRock071394 Wrote:
Yes you only used facts from the CURRENT canon mortal kombat, yet you fail to see that this is a retelling and SHIT GETS CHANGED
TemperaryUserName Wrote:
I used a ton of facts. I mentioned his only two dramatic premises in MK3, along with... you know what, this is not worth it. Trying to explain literary theory to someone who won't read is pretty much the same thing as arguing with a wooden board with someone's face drawn on it. You can't make someone understand if they have already decided they don't want to understand.
TheNinjasRock071394 Wrote:Get Back to me when you have fact and not opinion
I used a ton of facts. I mentioned his only two dramatic premises in MK3, along with... you know what, this is not worth it. Trying to explain literary theory to someone who won't read is pretty much the same thing as arguing with a wooden board with someone's face drawn on it. You can't make someone understand if they have already decided they don't want to understand.
Yes you only used facts from the CURRENT canon mortal kombat, yet you fail to see that this is a retelling and SHIT GETS CHANGED
By "shit gets changed" do you mean the basic tenants of a character's design and story get changed so much that they are completely unrecognizable storywise and might as well be a new character? Because that's what you're implying.
First of all, Raiden only went back to MK1. He doesn't have the power to fundamentally change anything about any single character's origin, goals, or personality.
Second, have you seen anything from this game? Elder Sub-Zero still died by Scorpion's hand and became Noob Saibot. Younger Sub-Zero still took his place. Most importantly, Cyrax and Sektor are still automated! None of this arc has visibly changed. All of Razor's points are valid.
I have a challenge: write a Star Wars story for me. What would Star Wars III-VI be like if Anakin never went to the dark side? Luke would still have to fight Palpatine and the rest of the Sith, and the story must have some sort of emotional payoff.
Whatever you're thinking of is pretty lame, isn't it? Is that because you're a bad writer, or because of the restrictions placed on the story due to fucking with Vader?
You really have the IQ of a smashed grapefruit don't you?
You do realize that just because some things don't change doesn't mean everything stays the same. Maybe you should read the rest of the posts before putting in your two cents.
The outcome of Certain events being changed in a character's story does not make them a "should have been a new character" type. So that is not what I was implying. Maybe if you asked if that was what I meant instead of just assuming like an asshole, you would be a little respected and have at least some form of credibility
Challenge me to write a star wars story?
1. Where the fuck did star wars come into this?
2. You are asking me to write a set-in-stone story of what would happen as if I said human smoke 100% will have a better story. No, if that is the case you could use some reading classes. I said that he COULD have a better story then Robot-Smoke. Although arrogant pricks who believe they are above everyone else, think that it's not possible because that is their divine thought.
3. Based on #2 idfk for all we know anakin could have killed the sith without going to the darkside before reaching the state we see him in, during the end of the canon star wars.
4. Did I say I was a writer? No I fucking didn't. I didn't say "I AM GONNA WRITE A BETTER STORY FOR HUMAN SMOKE" I said, human smoke could have a better story then robot-smoke. Leave that to the writers of NRS, but don't go around bashing every other story that users make just because it doesn't follow your little worthless opinion when it comes to the bottom line.
The people who claim to be so mature are the most childish here, not because of their opinion but because of their arrogance and how they go about expressing it.
Hey internet tough guy, I didn't say a single negative thing about you so don't come at me with your middle-school bullshit.
And that's EXACTLY what you're implying. Changing Smoke's automation is fundamentally changing the character. I don't understand how someone cannot grasp that unless they are being deliberately obtuse.
The rest of your post is stupid gibberish. Advice: don't act like a twat to someone just because they disagree with you, and then call THEM immature.
@ Zmoke: Honestly, SW is the first thing that came to my mind because of it's recognizability. I figured it would be a fun little exercise on how changing the emotional attachment between two characters can either elevate a story or make it fall flat. I don't think their plots are alike at all; I apologize if that's what I was implying. I certainly do not hold the reverence or knowledge of the MK series that Razor does, and I agree that a "great fighting game story" does not automatically make a "great story".
About Me
0
Cyborg_Hero Wrote:
Hey internet tough guy, I didn't say a single negative thing about you so don't come at me with your middle-school bullshit.
And that's EXACTLY what you're implying. Changing Smoke's automation is fundamentally changing the character. I don't understand how someone cannot grasp that unless they are being deliberately obtuse.
The rest of your post is stupid gibberish. Advice: don't act like a twat to someone just because they disagree with you, and then call THEM immature.
@ Zmoke: Honestly, SW is the first thing that came to my mind because of it's recognizability. I figured it would be a fun little exercise on how changing the emotional attachment between two characters can either elevate a story or make it fall flat. I don't think their plots are alike at all; I apologize if that's what I was implying. I certainly do not hold the reverence or knowledge of the MK series that Razor does, and I agree that a "great fighting game story" does not automatically make a "great story".
TheNinjasRock071394 Wrote:
You really have the IQ of a smashed grapefruit don't you?
You do realize that just because some things don't change doesn't mean everything stays the same. Maybe you should read the rest of the posts before putting in your two cents.
The outcome of Certain events being changed in a character's story does not make them a "should have been a new character" type. So that is not what I was implying. Maybe if you asked if that was what I meant instead of just assuming like an asshole, you would be a little respected and have at least some form of credibility
Challenge me to write a star wars story?
1. Where the fuck did star wars come into this?
2. You are asking me to write a set-in-stone story of what would happen as if I said human smoke 100% will have a better story. No, if that is the case you could use some reading classes. I said that he COULD have a better story then Robot-Smoke. Although arrogant pricks who believe they are above everyone else, think that it's not possible because that is their divine thought.
3. Based on #2 idfk for all we know anakin could have killed the sith without going to the darkside before reaching the state we see him in, during the end of the canon star wars.
4. Did I say I was a writer? No I fucking didn't. I didn't say "I AM GONNA WRITE A BETTER STORY FOR HUMAN SMOKE" I said, human smoke could have a better story then robot-smoke. Leave that to the writers of NRS, but don't go around bashing every other story that users make just because it doesn't follow your little worthless opinion when it comes to the bottom line.
The people who claim to be so mature are the most childish here, not because of their opinion but because of their arrogance and how they go about expressing it.
Cyborg_Hero Wrote:
By "shit gets changed" do you mean the basic tenants of a character's design and story get changed so much that they are completely unrecognizable storywise and might as well be a new character? Because that's what you're implying.
First of all, Raiden only went back to MK1. He doesn't have the power to fundamentally change anything about any single character's origin, goals, or personality.
Second, have you seen anything from this game? Elder Sub-Zero still died by Scorpion's hand and became Noob Saibot. Younger Sub-Zero still took his place. Most importantly, Cyrax and Sektor are still automated! None of this arc has visibly changed. All of Razor's points are valid.
I have a challenge: write a Star Wars story for me. What would Star Wars III-VI be like if Anakin never went to the dark side? Luke would still have to fight Palpatine and the rest of the Sith, and the story must have some sort of emotional payoff.
Whatever you're thinking of is pretty lame, isn't it? Is that because you're a bad writer, or because of the restrictions placed on the story due to fucking with Vader?
TheNinjasRock071394 Wrote:
Yes you only used facts from the CURRENT canon mortal kombat, yet you fail to see that this is a retelling and SHIT GETS CHANGED
TemperaryUserName Wrote:
I used a ton of facts. I mentioned his only two dramatic premises in MK3, along with... you know what, this is not worth it. Trying to explain literary theory to someone who won't read is pretty much the same thing as arguing with a wooden board with someone's face drawn on it. You can't make someone understand if they have already decided they don't want to understand.
TheNinjasRock071394 Wrote:Get Back to me when you have fact and not opinion
I used a ton of facts. I mentioned his only two dramatic premises in MK3, along with... you know what, this is not worth it. Trying to explain literary theory to someone who won't read is pretty much the same thing as arguing with a wooden board with someone's face drawn on it. You can't make someone understand if they have already decided they don't want to understand.
Yes you only used facts from the CURRENT canon mortal kombat, yet you fail to see that this is a retelling and SHIT GETS CHANGED
By "shit gets changed" do you mean the basic tenants of a character's design and story get changed so much that they are completely unrecognizable storywise and might as well be a new character? Because that's what you're implying.
First of all, Raiden only went back to MK1. He doesn't have the power to fundamentally change anything about any single character's origin, goals, or personality.
Second, have you seen anything from this game? Elder Sub-Zero still died by Scorpion's hand and became Noob Saibot. Younger Sub-Zero still took his place. Most importantly, Cyrax and Sektor are still automated! None of this arc has visibly changed. All of Razor's points are valid.
I have a challenge: write a Star Wars story for me. What would Star Wars III-VI be like if Anakin never went to the dark side? Luke would still have to fight Palpatine and the rest of the Sith, and the story must have some sort of emotional payoff.
Whatever you're thinking of is pretty lame, isn't it? Is that because you're a bad writer, or because of the restrictions placed on the story due to fucking with Vader?
You really have the IQ of a smashed grapefruit don't you?
You do realize that just because some things don't change doesn't mean everything stays the same. Maybe you should read the rest of the posts before putting in your two cents.
The outcome of Certain events being changed in a character's story does not make them a "should have been a new character" type. So that is not what I was implying. Maybe if you asked if that was what I meant instead of just assuming like an asshole, you would be a little respected and have at least some form of credibility
Challenge me to write a star wars story?
1. Where the fuck did star wars come into this?
2. You are asking me to write a set-in-stone story of what would happen as if I said human smoke 100% will have a better story. No, if that is the case you could use some reading classes. I said that he COULD have a better story then Robot-Smoke. Although arrogant pricks who believe they are above everyone else, think that it's not possible because that is their divine thought.
3. Based on #2 idfk for all we know anakin could have killed the sith without going to the darkside before reaching the state we see him in, during the end of the canon star wars.
4. Did I say I was a writer? No I fucking didn't. I didn't say "I AM GONNA WRITE A BETTER STORY FOR HUMAN SMOKE" I said, human smoke could have a better story then robot-smoke. Leave that to the writers of NRS, but don't go around bashing every other story that users make just because it doesn't follow your little worthless opinion when it comes to the bottom line.
The people who claim to be so mature are the most childish here, not because of their opinion but because of their arrogance and how they go about expressing it.
Hey internet tough guy, I didn't say a single negative thing about you so don't come at me with your middle-school bullshit.
And that's EXACTLY what you're implying. Changing Smoke's automation is fundamentally changing the character. I don't understand how someone cannot grasp that unless they are being deliberately obtuse.
The rest of your post is stupid gibberish. Advice: don't act like a twat to someone just because they disagree with you, and then call THEM immature.
@ Zmoke: Honestly, SW is the first thing that came to my mind because of it's recognizability. I figured it would be a fun little exercise on how changing the emotional attachment between two characters can either elevate a story or make it fall flat. I don't think their plots are alike at all; I apologize if that's what I was implying. I certainly do not hold the reverence or knowledge of the MK series that Razor does, and I agree that a "great fighting game story" does not automatically make a "great story".
It doesn't change Smoke's character because if this new game starts of at MK1.... HE HAS NEVER BEEN AUTOMATED AS FAR AS WE KNOW IN THIS NEW GAME. If we see Human Smoke at first Cool, There is no such thing as robot smoke in this set of MK tournaments until the story mode says so. I don't understand how you can't grasp that.
And the rest of my post is gibberish why? Is that what you want to call it just because it is right? Are you like Razor except you inform us that you noted our post but just call it gibberish to avoid having to think of a reply to get yourself out of the corner? I give you a bit more credit than him for that but still, really?
Your little attack of calling me a "twat" doesn't really hurt because basically when someone says that over the internet it is just a cry because they are wrong and don't want to admit that they were wrong. If I was being a twat just because he disagreed with me I wouldn't be defending my thoughts with m0s3pH. I would be just lashing out on his, which is exactly what he does about every story someone writes for human smoke which is what he is complaining about in the first place. He just refuses to change his divine views and I guess you have those divine views also.
0
Why are you freaking out dude? Stop insulting people and STOP WRECKING THIS TOPIC. It was a valid thread until the argument started, and now it's just a shit storm and at this point you're the only one keeping it that way. Just stop before you get yourself banned.
In a much larger poll I held on the Smoke the results were much closer, but still roughly 10% in human Smoke's favor:
http://www.misterpoll.com/polls/507336/results
While I'd like to see the human concept built on I'll be happy if he just gets a coherent, likely plot this time. But no matter what direction NRS takes his plot is going to need work. He has a blank story arc (human), and abandoned, auctioned off story arc (cyber), and a predominately disliked story arc (fog demon). Kind of a pick you poison and hope they write something good scenerio.
Human is a blank slate, making it the biggest gamble. They could come up with something fresh that allows Smoke to finally stand out on his own for the first time since MK3. Or it could be rubbish. My guess is no matter what it would end up being something the human Smoke fans like and cyber Smoke fans vomit to.
Cyber Smoke has the most potential but also some nasty baggage: Cyrax has already been fleshing out the "tormented cyborg" story arc, and Noob has the whole "ally Sub-Zero wants to save the soul of" story arc just kind of built into his current persona. Thus NRS are still going to have to do some creative thinking to make Smoke's rendition of those points not feel like Cyrax & Noob's version in a blender. And likely as with human Smoke the opposition fanbase will hate it no matter what and go out of their way to point out what "poor writing" they did.
Fog Demon Smoke is such a distant event its not even worth mention. Not to mention now that Noob Saibot is established as the elder Sub he's likely to have a very different story arc going by the time when and if the events of Deception happen.
http://www.misterpoll.com/polls/507336/results
While I'd like to see the human concept built on I'll be happy if he just gets a coherent, likely plot this time. But no matter what direction NRS takes his plot is going to need work. He has a blank story arc (human), and abandoned, auctioned off story arc (cyber), and a predominately disliked story arc (fog demon). Kind of a pick you poison and hope they write something good scenerio.
Human is a blank slate, making it the biggest gamble. They could come up with something fresh that allows Smoke to finally stand out on his own for the first time since MK3. Or it could be rubbish. My guess is no matter what it would end up being something the human Smoke fans like and cyber Smoke fans vomit to.
Cyber Smoke has the most potential but also some nasty baggage: Cyrax has already been fleshing out the "tormented cyborg" story arc, and Noob has the whole "ally Sub-Zero wants to save the soul of" story arc just kind of built into his current persona. Thus NRS are still going to have to do some creative thinking to make Smoke's rendition of those points not feel like Cyrax & Noob's version in a blender. And likely as with human Smoke the opposition fanbase will hate it no matter what and go out of their way to point out what "poor writing" they did.
Fog Demon Smoke is such a distant event its not even worth mention. Not to mention now that Noob Saibot is established as the elder Sub he's likely to have a very different story arc going by the time when and if the events of Deception happen.
Cyborg_Hero Wrote:
@ Zmoke: Honestly, SW is the first thing that came to my mind because of it's recognizability. I figured it would be a fun little exercise on how changing the emotional attachment between two characters can either elevate a story or make it fall flat. I don't think their plots are alike at all; I apologize if that's what I was implying. I certainly do not hold the reverence or knowledge of the MK series that Razor does, and I agree that a "great fighting game story" does not automatically make a "great story".
I understand. @ Zmoke: Honestly, SW is the first thing that came to my mind because of it's recognizability. I figured it would be a fun little exercise on how changing the emotional attachment between two characters can either elevate a story or make it fall flat. I don't think their plots are alike at all; I apologize if that's what I was implying. I certainly do not hold the reverence or knowledge of the MK series that Razor does, and I agree that a "great fighting game story" does not automatically make a "great story".
I've got to mention that from the pages and pages I have read this debate, it's all about who sees a potential to change things drastically in the plot and who doesn't - and about name calling which isn't going to get us anywhere. But as you read my post above, you may have noticed that if things are not to change this time, we may just have another devastated MK game they like to call Armageddon. This may be a reason why NRS hasn't revealed us some of the most important characters story-wise; because the plot will ultimately differ. We have yet to find out what goes in such as Raiden and Liu Kang's minds in the new game, what are their new plans. Only time will tell us.
I would like to see a closing to this debate sometime soon though. It seems clear that RazorsEdge701 will remain stubborn with one view only, achieving this by ignoring some of the most momentous messages, and the majority sees a potential of Smoke in different scenarios too. Unfortunately, going through the same line again now would simply end up in another Armageddon fiasco thus automation should not be taken as the only option. But, as stated, there are always likers, dislikers and indifferent. For further discussion, you should consider PM'ing this thing out.
About Me
Mortal Kombat Online - Community Manager
| Twitch | YouTube | Lawful Chaos |
Signature and avatar by ThePredator151
0
You know, I said I was going to stay out of this thread, but after watching all of this bullshit unfold and getting lumped into this argument when all I've done is offer alternative perspectives, I am compelled to post again. Here's what I have to say:
@Zmoke- With all due respect, everyone knows that the Midway boards are not the place to look for intelligent discussion and opinions on anything. That said, they did put Human Smoke at the top of that poll by a very wide margin. There's something to be said for that. As someone (I apologize, I don't remember who) said much earlier, you might as well throw out everything you know about the MK story, because it will be effectively rewritten. If it's in the cards for Smoke to stay human this time, that's the way it'll be. Let me pose the following to the people on the side of preserving the Smoke story arc as is: since hindsight is 20-20, throw that out for a second. When you first knew of Smoke in MK2, what did you imagine his story to be, both present and future?
Also, I refuse to get involved in the Smoke argument anymore because my brother has effectively put me in a position where it's a conflict of interest for me to do so. I will say this, however: the next person, and I don't care who it is, to flame ANYONE gets a 24-hour vacation from MKO. Run and tell that homeboy.
@Zmoke- With all due respect, everyone knows that the Midway boards are not the place to look for intelligent discussion and opinions on anything. That said, they did put Human Smoke at the top of that poll by a very wide margin. There's something to be said for that. As someone (I apologize, I don't remember who) said much earlier, you might as well throw out everything you know about the MK story, because it will be effectively rewritten. If it's in the cards for Smoke to stay human this time, that's the way it'll be. Let me pose the following to the people on the side of preserving the Smoke story arc as is: since hindsight is 20-20, throw that out for a second. When you first knew of Smoke in MK2, what did you imagine his story to be, both present and future?
Also, I refuse to get involved in the Smoke argument anymore because my brother has effectively put me in a position where it's a conflict of interest for me to do so. I will say this, however: the next person, and I don't care who it is, to flame ANYONE gets a 24-hour vacation from MKO. Run and tell that homeboy.
About Me
0
Well you have to understand, I've personally seen this discussion at least 10 separate times, and Razor has been here much longer than me. Many of us stand firmly on one side or another because we've heard almost every argument there is to hear about this subject.
Also, change for the sake of change does nothing for me, and I'm pretty sure Razor is with me on that. If it makes the story better, sure, but just for the sake of a "new experience"? Not my cup of tea.
Also, change for the sake of change does nothing for me, and I'm pretty sure Razor is with me on that. If it makes the story better, sure, but just for the sake of a "new experience"? Not my cup of tea.
m0s3pH Wrote:
@Zmoke- With all due respect, everyone knows that the Midway boards are not the place to look for intelligent discussion and opinions on anything. That said, they did put Human Smoke at the top of that poll by a very wide margin. There's something to be said for that. As someone (I apologize, I don't remember who) said much earlier, you might as well throw out everything you know about the MK story, because it will be effectively rewritten. If it's in the cards for Smoke to stay human this time, that's the way it'll be. Let me pose the following to the people on the side of preserving the Smoke story arc as is: since hindsight is 20-20, throw that out for a second. When you first knew of Smoke in MK2, what did you imagine his story to be, both present and future?
EDIT: Midway Boards: opinions yes (they're MK players too) but intelligent discussion: not that easily, I've acknowledged that past the years. But I was pointing out that whilst Smoke wouldn't probably gain the same result here, it would probably be towards Human Smoke anyway similar to Obreck's poll. But I fully agree that this debate has to finally end considering that there have been pages and pages of time to throw your arguments in, so your point has probably been noticed by now. We only have to wait and see what will Ed Boon and co create us. Hopefully something spectacular. I'm off (sleep).@Zmoke- With all due respect, everyone knows that the Midway boards are not the place to look for intelligent discussion and opinions on anything. That said, they did put Human Smoke at the top of that poll by a very wide margin. There's something to be said for that. As someone (I apologize, I don't remember who) said much earlier, you might as well throw out everything you know about the MK story, because it will be effectively rewritten. If it's in the cards for Smoke to stay human this time, that's the way it'll be. Let me pose the following to the people on the side of preserving the Smoke story arc as is: since hindsight is 20-20, throw that out for a second. When you first knew of Smoke in MK2, what did you imagine his story to be, both present and future?
0
m0s3pH Wrote:
As someone (I apologize, I don't remember who) said much earlier, you might as well throw out everything you know about the MK story, because it will be effectively rewritten.
As someone (I apologize, I don't remember who) said much earlier, you might as well throw out everything you know about the MK story, because it will be effectively rewritten.
Not sure if this is directly referring to me, but i've been saying this the whole time. People are under the assumption that ONLY important or big events will potentially be changed just because the STORYLINE reasoning of the game supports it. However, people fail to realize that this is a RE-WRITE. Things WILL change, some major, some small, some important, some not. The reality of it is, is this is a way for the MK team to redo their story, and change things to the way they see fit. The game reason may be Raiden changing things to alter the future, but the MK team is going to take whatever liberties they see fit, in order to make all the characters and events run smoother together, much better than they were able to in the past. They can do a lot more now that they couldn't before. What happened in the original 3 games may no longer apply in the new storyline. People keep thinking that this is a remake, when it's not. The MK team could change people's alliances, attitudes, personalities, goals, fates, back stories etc. to fit their new storyline.
Look at it as an alternate universe. Jax may no longer be the same Jax we knew before. I believe it's rumored that he has cybernetic legs as well now. Also, it's plainly obvious that his arm coverings are much more permenant this time, and he even has hoses going into his neck. That sure as hell doesn't match up with the Jax from before. He could wind up being a true cyborg, half human, half robot, like some sort of military super soldier. Fact is, we don't know anything for sure, but to say that certain things CAN'T or WON'T change just because it wouldn't logically be altered by Raiden's actions in the game, is just assuming that the only changes being made will be logical cause and effect changes...yet it's likely that the MK team will change whatever the hell they please to better their product. Rewrites in franchises happen over the years. How many times has Batman's/Superman's/Spider-man's origins and story been told differently etc.? This is MK's rewrite/retelling, so don't expect to see the same stuff as before. It's a new beginning. You can't rightfully judge until you know where everything/everyone stands in the new MK, as of yet, we know little to nothing.
© 1998-2025 Shadow Knight Media, LLC. All rights reserved. Mortal Kombat, the dragon logo and all character names are trademarks and copyright of Warner Bros. Entertainment Inc.