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2D Kombat Klassics

Discussing the 2D MK Klassics: Everything from the Original to Rereleases.
Page of 6

TemperaryUserNamePosted: 01/20/2004 12:54 AMStatus ::


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Visits::6084
Nationality::United States
RE: Shang Tsung's True Form

Alright, let's take a few steps back here.

First of all, I'll admit that I was wrong to call you or anybody else childish. That's goes against my etiquette, and is just a shitty thing to do anyway. For that, I apologize. Second, I won't argue who's right or wrong because I told Kombat I wouldn't further derail his thread, so I'll keep the mid-ground here.

But nevermind that stuff now. The problem here is that the arguement seems to be changing from whether Ermac is a hidden character, to whether he exists or not, all the way to what Ermac actually is. And if I had time to go through the Ermac thread, I'd probably debate with you, but unfortunately I don't. But please understand that I can't go off of evidence you made in other threads. All I had to argue with was the comment you made at the beginning of the page along with some other isolated posts. I had no way of knowing what evidence you proposed unless I digged through the MK classics section, which time won't even allow me to do. So until fate unites us in discussion once again: Peace be with you.

New sig on the way
Thread Closed
MK2KungBrokenPosted: 01/20/2004 03:13 AMStatus ::


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Visits::6269
Nationality::United States
RE: Shang Tsung's True Form

Yeah I understand, I basically gave a gist of what I had said in the other forums, but that was just merely a suggestion for you to also check out the other thread since this one has nothing to do with Ermac, just that it was mentioned the picture was in the same magazine as the Ermac polaroid, I thought after my first post it would have stopped, but it didn't and turned into a thread with 200 posts. I know that's a lot of posts, but basically it's a lot of the same stuff over and over, me reiterating what I said before, them not understanding it and/or ignoring it, them saying the same thing again, and then coming up with unbelievable, ridiculous, convoluted ideas of how it's possible for him to exist in the game, practically tearing apart the space time continuum in the process and rewriting history, me telling them that their evidence is weak, me adding more to my side, them repeating, me repeating, adding more to my side again, saying their evidence is still weak lol. I didn't mean to get on you, my whole rant on the last post was directed towards the notion that Ermac is in MK1, the anger is still there. Sometimes I don't know why I'm angry, but then I realize why and it's beacause of:

"Hmm, if it's the same GamePro that I'm thinking about, maybe someone who talks to FatSatan can get him to scan the interview where Boon himself CLEARLY STATES that Ermac DOES show up in MK1."

It's like, "Hi I'm Norm McDonald here with the fake news..." There must have been a thread about this some time ago and he was confronted about saying something similar, else, he's just looking for someone to tell him he's wrong. He completely misunderstood what was said in the interview and I think he realized that eventually after countless posts telling him so. CLEARLY is a bit of an overstatement. There is nothing truly clear about what Boon says other than it was an accident, which in other words means: BS.

Matt

The Prophet - R.I.P. 1979-2006
www.kombatnetwork.com
- Your Source for UMK3 Competition -

When something better than UMK3 comes out, I'll let you all know, because it still hasn't happened yet.
Thread Closed
SakuraPosted: 01/20/2004 04:32 AMStatus ::


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Visits::2868
Nationality::United States
RE: Shang Tsung's True Form

I posted a transcript of Boon's statement and it's anything but clear.

Thread Closed
HyugaPosted: 01/21/2004 02:39 PMStatus ::


Rank ::
Visits::14885
Nationality::Thailand
RE: Shang Tsung's True Form

MK2KungBroken, are you trying to take credit for all of the work I did in the Ermac thread? All I see in your posts here are "I told them" this and "I made them" that.

Thread Closed
MK2KungBrokenPosted: 01/21/2004 05:18 PMStatus ::


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Visits::6269
Nationality::United States
RE: Shang Tsung's True Form

For a while you were trying to prove me wrong it seemed, maybe I misinterpreted it, but then at the end you just said "There was no evidence of Ermac Wins in the game's code", I'm not trying to take credit for your work, I even told Temp to read the thread, but a lot of stuff you said is just theory, just about everything I said is based on imperical evidence.

Matt

The Prophet - R.I.P. 1979-2006
www.kombatnetwork.com
- Your Source for UMK3 Competition -

When something better than UMK3 comes out, I'll let you all know, because it still hasn't happened yet.
Thread Closed
HyugaPosted: 01/21/2004 08:32 PMStatus ::


Rank ::
Visits::14885
Nationality::Thailand
RE: Shang Tsung's True Form

I fail to see how ROM data and mathematical formulas can be considered theory. If anything, DreemerNJ and I were the only ones trying to come up with actual empirical evidence. Everybody else was bickering over Boon bullshit that never happened because Boon is a robot programmed by Tobias. Maybe I'm confusing you for somebody else, though. Oh well. Take whatever you read as you will.

We really should make a fresh thread about what we found out in that thread. There was too much shit between our posts.



MK2KungBroken Wrote:
...but a lot of stuff you said is just theory, just about everything I said is based on imperical evidence.


Thread Closed
MK2KungBrokenPosted: 01/22/2004 04:42 PMStatus ::


Rank ::
Visits::6269
Nationality::United States
RE: Shang Tsung's True Form

Hyuga, you came up with some really ridiculous methods of finding Ermac, things that just had no possible chance of happening, those are the theories I'm talking about. You could have skipped everything and just looked for "Ermac Wins" from the very beginning.

The phrase ERMAC DOES NOT EXIST in MK2 isn't a theory, it's a fact, it's there, it's making a statement. It means what it says. That's just one example. Ed Boon saying "No one has found Ermac yet in MK1" is a fact, he said it, and it means what it says. This is evidence, and facts, scanning through a rom, making up ideas on how to find him by adding data to the rom, changing actual parts of it to how you see fit, or ways it could actually say "Ermac Wins" and then searching for them, are theories. The last thing you did turned into a fact, the fact I've been stating all along, that Ermac isn't there. I think it is a good idea though, a thread to recap the whole thing, go for it.

Matt

The Prophet - R.I.P. 1979-2006
www.kombatnetwork.com
- Your Source for UMK3 Competition -

When something better than UMK3 comes out, I'll let you all know, because it still hasn't happened yet.
Thread Closed
HyugaPosted: 01/22/2004 08:22 PMStatus ::


Rank ::
Visits::14885
Nationality::Thailand
RE: Shang Tsung's True Form

What the fuck are you talking about? Reread what I stated. I was telling everybody that the chances of everything falling into place were so small that it was nearly impossible to happen.

Empirical - Guided by practical experience and not theory, especially in medicine.

Hacking a ROM to see that the name data doesn't exist seems like practical experience to me.

Maybe I worded it poorly last time, but I've always been on your side.


MK2KungBroken Wrote:
Hyuga, you came up with some really ridiculous methods of finding Ermac, things that just had no possible chance of happening, those are the theories I'm talking about. You could have skipped everything and just looked for "Ermac Wins" from the very beginning.

The phrase ERMAC DOES NOT EXIST in MK2 isn't a theory, it's a fact, it's there, it's making a statement. It means what it says. That's just one example. Ed Boon saying "No one has found Ermac yet in MK1" is a fact, he said it, and it means what it says. This is evidence, and facts, scanning through a rom, making up ideas on how to find him by adding data to the rom, changing actual parts of it to how you see fit, or ways it could actually say "Ermac Wins" and then searching for them, are theories. The last thing you did turned into a fact, the fact I've been stating all along, that Ermac isn't there. I think it is a good idea though, a thread to recap the whole thing, go for it.

Matt


Thread Closed
MK2KungBrokenPosted: 01/22/2004 11:22 PMStatus ::


Rank ::
Visits::6269
Nationality::United States
RE: Shang Tsung's True Form

OK, there were a few posts where you really seemed like you were not, but again, hacking roms isn't evidence, it's a guessing game, my evidence is just stuff that exists and supports my stance on the matter, and none of it is arguable on a realistic level. Them saying that MK2's ending messages have only to do with MK2 is complete and utter nonsense.

I have another good example by the way that is a similar situation to Ermac being rumored in MK1, and then appearing in a later game.

Blaze, the guy on the back of the Pit II, who is on fire, also just a flaming green Liu Kang, was rumored to be a hidden character in MKII. It wasn't just a basic joke rumor, it had a lot of following. It is known that this rumor is not true, and anyone still believing that Blaze, or Torch is still in MKII is just as bad as thinking Ermac is in MK1. Here's how it relates.

Blaze was put into MKDA because he was a rumor made by fans, just like Ermac. Animalities were rumored in MK2, they were not there, as stated by John Vogel, so they put them in the next game. Then the transformation counters that are useless, all put in because of rumors. The Raiden messages in MK3 about the Kano transformations are there to tell you they weren't in the previous game, just like the ERMAC DOES NOT EXIST message is in MK2.

I guess there is some theory behind all this,but there's really no other way a normal person could interperate this stuff. I am just saying that going through and searching roms for stuff that is all theoretical to begin with is not really evidence until you come up with a positive answer, going along with your own example, simply looking for Ermac Wins in the game's code, doesn't prove, nor disprove that it can happen, and I know you have talked about how unlikely it is, but none of this helps in anyway. If you spend a whole ton of time searching for something that isn't there, you're not going to find it, and if you're determined to find something, you've got yourself in a circle. I think it's better to stick with the stuff that is there to analyze, because I think your rom hacking expertice is really just something you think is impressive, and it completely doesn't apply to the arguement.

Matt

The Prophet - R.I.P. 1979-2006
www.kombatnetwork.com
- Your Source for UMK3 Competition -

When something better than UMK3 comes out, I'll let you all know, because it still hasn't happened yet.
Thread Closed
HyugaPosted: 01/22/2004 11:51 PMStatus ::


Rank ::
Visits::14885
Nationality::Thailand
RE: Shang Tsung's True Form

You can't just say that because Animalities were added in MK3 (but were not in MK2) and that Blaze was added in MKDA (but was not in MK2) that Ermac can't be in MK1 because he was added to a later game. That's assuming that there is a trend in the way they create things for newer games. If that were true, Sexualities and Suicidalities would've been in MKDA, or even MK4. Hell, the Keebler Elves and the American Gladiators would've been in MK3. There is no possible way to use the existing "evidence" that the game gives you to prove that Ermac is not in MK1.



MK2KungBroken Wrote:
OK, there were a few posts where you really seemed like you were not, but again, hacking roms isn't evidence, it's a guessing game, my evidence is just stuff that exists and supports my stance on the matter, and none of it is arguable on a realistic level. Them saying that MK2's ending messages have only to do with MK2 is complete and utter nonsense.

I have another good example by the way that is a similar situation to Ermac being rumored in MK1, and then appearing in a later game.

Blaze, the guy on the back of the Pit II, who is on fire, also just a flaming green Liu Kang, was rumored to be a hidden character in MKII. It wasn't just a basic joke rumor, it had a lot of following. It is known that this rumor is not true, and anyone still believing that Blaze, or Torch is still in MKII is just as bad as thinking Ermac is in MK1. Here's how it relates.

Blaze was put into MKDA because he was a rumor made by fans, just like Ermac. Animalities were rumored in MK2, they were not there, as stated by John Vogel, so they put them in the next game. Then the transformation counters that are useless, all put in because of rumors. The Raiden messages in MK3 about the Kano transformations are there to tell you they weren't in the previous game, just like the ERMAC DOES NOT EXIST message is in MK2.

I guess there is some theory behind all this,but there's really no other way a normal person could interperate this stuff. I am just saying that going through and searching roms for stuff that is all theoretical to begin with is not really evidence until you come up with a positive answer, going along with your own example, simply looking for Ermac Wins in the game's code, doesn't prove, nor disprove that it can happen, and I know you have talked about how unlikely it is, but none of this helps in anyway. If you spend a whole ton of time searching for something that isn't there, you're not going to find it, and if you're determined to find something, you've got yourself in a circle. I think it's better to stick with the stuff that is there to analyze, because I think your rom hacking expertice is really just something you think is impressive, and it completely doesn't apply to the arguement.

Matt


Thread Closed
MK2KungBrokenPosted: 01/23/2004 01:58 AMStatus ::


Rank ::
Visits::6269
Nationality::United States
RE: Shang Tsung's True Form

In all honesty, all joking aside, not for nothing, for what it's worth...

CEARM ODSE NTO EXITS
CEARM ODSE NTO EXITS
CEARM ODSE NTO EXITS

Stop overlooking that. That is a brickwall of evidence. That is not saying that in MK2 specifically Ermac does not exist, it says Ermac does not exist. That is th exact same method of rumor dispelling as "I have never seen a Kano transformation" What about "THREE RAE ON STNIIIAAMEL"? People rumored Animatlies were going to be in MK2 before it even came out, so they put that in there to say that they weren't, the Ermac rumor happened after MK1's arcade release, and they removed ERMACS from the audit, and then went as far as to say "ERMAC DOES NOT EXIST"

The only reason I'm trying to use these comparisons is because CEARM ODSE NTO EXITS apparently is somehow NOT enough evidence. You guys agree that THREE RAE ON STNIIIAAMEL means There Are No Animalities (in MK2) and that "I have never seen a Kano transformation" means that you cannot morph into Kano or what have you (in MK2) but somehow, CEARM ODSE NTO EXITS doesn't apply to MK1. In each of the three examples, under my apparently inferior logic, they are addressing a rumor that was intended for a specific game. Saying Ermac Does Not Exist (In MK2) makes NO SENSE whatsoever. There HAS to be a real meaning to it, a 100% definite explanation to why it's there. And it's to say that Ermac does not exist (inferred ALL MK, you don't even have to think about it). Saying they *really* mean MK2 is wrong, because you are inferring something that isn't there, or reading between the lines when there's only one line. That was NEVER a rumor before the game came out, maybe you heard one kid on your block say it sometime, but it wasn't a rumor. The fact that Ed Boon comes back in 1999 and says no one has found Ermac yet in MK1 SUPPORTS Ermac not being there, because that means he's saying everything having to do with the EGM magazine and Gamepro interview was a lie.

1993 Tony Casey-"I have found a guy I think is called Ermac, here is a picture I took."
1993 Ed Boon- "Ummm...uhhh...well..."
1993-1999 (misc fans talk about the elusive Ermac in MK1 maintaining a particular interest in the mystery of MK)
1999 Ed Boon-"No one has found Ermac yet."

The "yet" in the sentence implies that Ermac might be there to find, but by saying no one has found him, that means the EGM magazine picture is a lie, and that the guy never really found him in the first place, and that his interview was also, a lie. Having been said, that makes every single piece of evidence that the "believers" have used to support the existance of Ermac 100% false, and CEARM ODSE NTO EXITS can then be easily translated to Ermac does not exist (at all, in any MK game, 1, or 2). I can't believe that there is still ANY question that Ermac was a fake, and Hyuga, that is why I can say what I said. I didn't even have to hack a rom, or make up something that isn't there.

Matt

The Prophet - R.I.P. 1979-2006
www.kombatnetwork.com
- Your Source for UMK3 Competition -

When something better than UMK3 comes out, I'll let you all know, because it still hasn't happened yet.
Thread Closed
HyugaPosted: 01/23/2004 02:21 AMStatus ::


Rank ::
Visits::14885
Nationality::Thailand
RE: Shang Tsung's True Form

Ermac isn't there because there is no trace of him being there, not becuase they made some idiotic cryptic message saying he's not here. The problem with you is that you're too trusting of what the programmers put in the game. What makes you think they're not lying? Programmers lie all the time. I don't know if you've ever heard of it, but there was a MASSIVE secret in Banjo Kazooie that took people years to find, simply because the programmers said "There are no more secrets."

I had to pick up where your "proof" left off. That's the point of breaking open a ROM.

You need to come up with more proof than "Boon told me he's not there so he's not there" or at least come up with a more trustworthy source. Between the two of us, there is no Ermac. Your proof just happens to have no real backing to it, though.

Thread Closed
MK2KungBrokenPosted: 01/23/2004 02:46 AMStatus ::


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Visits::6269
Nationality::United States
RE: Shang Tsung's True Form

I think you have absolutely no idea what you are talking about. You do not have the final word in Mortal Kombat rumors, and you seem to think you do. You butt into conversations, and offer NOTHING and you've done it in more than one thread.

You looking through the roms and finding what YOU consider to be no evidence of Ermac proves nothing, you one person, saying that because YOU didn't find any trace of Ermac, means he's not there. That's great.

Ermac's not there because...there doesn't have to be a reason for him to be NOT there. Wow. These guys are not going to accept something like that because they just "believe in him" like they believe in God. You turned this into a rom hacking exhibition and that's not what it was about.

You're taking some things too literally, the points I'm bringing up seem silly to you, because you are looking at it from a technical standpoint that NO ONE CARES ABOUT. They have to be presented the way they are in order to refute the evidence that is being used to support Ermac. The evidence of him being there is so stupid it's sad. I have tried my best to come up with what I can, using facts, not stuff that is regulated and controlled by my own doing like you have.

Your rom hacking skills are WORTHLESS when it comes to proving Ermac isn't in the game because according to the current belief, which changes like Chameleon, Ermac is just a glitch and is now a red Scorpion, when he started out as a hidden character with different attributes than Scorpion. You'll never find a glitch looking through the rom because it's an error that shouldn't happen, and incase you haven't realized, just about everyone who believed has stopped posting, so either they don't care anymore, or admit defeat. I am satisfied with the outcome of the thread, but man, you gotta get with reality here. You've got some weird twisted ego when it comes to this stuff, I just wanted to prove that Ermac was never intended on being in MK1, and that the glitch in the EGM mag never really happened...and you also seem to be the master of "apples and oranges." Stay focused.

We are real "winners"

Matt

The Prophet - R.I.P. 1979-2006
www.kombatnetwork.com
- Your Source for UMK3 Competition -

When something better than UMK3 comes out, I'll let you all know, because it still hasn't happened yet.
Thread Closed
HyugaPosted: 01/23/2004 03:21 AMStatus ::


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Visits::14885
Nationality::Thailand
RE: Shang Tsung's True Form

Get it through your head that I was trying to back up what you said with alternate ideas because it was obvious that you were making yourself look like a jackass (if you were right or not was a different story). Nobody was listening to you. Then, when you realized that fact, you had to result to calling people morons.

Why the fuck wouldn't I look at this from a technical standpoint? They were relying on a technical error as their only shred of evidence. I took the available data and explained that the possible combinations were astronomical. I didn't try to use your "Boon said..." argument. Why? Because it has nothing to do with anything. Boon doesn't know shit. That's why I hacked the ROM. To look at all of the variables and to prove that the audit data doesn't have to do with anything. Everything after that was done at the request of the others.

You can't keep relying on what others (Boon, the programmers) have told you.

You'd make a terrible criminal investigator. You'd walk to a crime scene, see no footprints, and say "Well, I can't see any footprints, so it looks like there was no crime here."

Thread Closed
MK2KungBrokenPosted: 01/23/2004 04:54 AMStatus ::


Rank ::
Visits::6269
Nationality::United States
RE: Shang Tsung's True Form

Your comment about being a bad criminal investigator is completely backwards, because criminal investigators find facts and utilize them which is EXACTLY what I have tried to do, not make up their own ideas and theories, you're talking forensics, they create concepts on how crimes were comitted and debate about it in an effort to find facts that aren't readily available. That can't apply here cause there's really no debate but I'm a Gemini and I love debating. But that's what you have been doing, creating ideas of possible ways, in an attempt to create facts, not taking the facts that are already there and shoving them down their throats. You can't do anything but rely on what is said, and what is there to analyze. Last time I checked, in a court room, the prosecutors asked questions to people involved, they don't tell them what they might have done, unless they are the cross examiner when they attempt get people to admit guilt, which is what Sakura actually did do, guilt being "The Crime of Believing in MK1 Ermac". Technical jargon is only going to confuse people, the only reason I started calling people morons was because their reasoning was so far from reality there was no other way of getting them to realize.

Matt

The Prophet - R.I.P. 1979-2006
www.kombatnetwork.com
- Your Source for UMK3 Competition -

When something better than UMK3 comes out, I'll let you all know, because it still hasn't happened yet.
Thread Closed
MK2KungBrokenPosted: 01/23/2004 04:56 AMStatus ::


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Visits::6269
Nationality::United States
RE: Shang Tsung's True Form

We need a summary MK1 Ermac thread btw.

Matt

The Prophet - R.I.P. 1979-2006
www.kombatnetwork.com
- Your Source for UMK3 Competition -

When something better than UMK3 comes out, I'll let you all know, because it still hasn't happened yet.
Thread Closed
kabal20Posted: 01/28/2004 02:02 PMStatus ::


Rank ::
Visits::6204
Nationality::United States
RE: Shang Tsung's True Form

Some kid i used to go to school with back in junior high had told me about ermac, but he said a red retile his freind had faced, and this was before i even heard the rumor about ermac being in the game. He told me too how to fight him, i'm foggy on the exact way now, I only have a general idea of how he said to fight him.

This is what i think you have to do to fight ermac in MK1:
-Fight reptile (Unsure get a double flawless fatality on him the first time you fight him)
-Fight reptile a second time on the endurance round
-Get a flawless victory on reptile the first round when you fight him a second time and the second round you should fight ermac.
-*(alternate version or the previous rule)
Instead of only getting a flawless vicory one round on reptile the second time you fight him, get a double flawless fatality and then ermac will jump out and you fight him.

XBL: kabal31082, PSN: Kabal31082
Nintendo Id: kabal82, 3ds friend code: 2595-3252-2624

Thread Closed
MK-SonicPosted: 02/02/2004 11:25 AMStatus ::


Rank ::
Visits::79
Nationality::Japan
RE: Shang Tsung's True Form

"But whom is he excactly trying to copy with his mkda form, with the beard and that?"

His appearance kinda reminds me of the Russian monk, Rasputin. And both were rather daemonic.

Thread Closed
quevePosted: 02/10/2004 05:04 PMStatus ::


Rank ::
Visits::4110
Nationality::Bolivia
RE: Shang Tsung's True Form



MK-Sonic Wrote:
"But whom is he excactly trying to copy with his mkda form, with the beard and that?"

His appearance kinda reminds me of the Russian monk, Rasputin. And both were rather daemonic.


The one from "Anastasia" Movie?

Thread Closed
coglinePosted: 02/10/2004 11:35 PMStatus ::


Rank ::
Visits::8139
Nationality::United States
RE: Shang Tsung's True Form

maybe his true form has something to do with the DK in MK6. THis could be a huge tie in.

Feel free to send a friend request or invite me. :)
Thread Closed
kamioneroPosted: 02/11/2004 12:44 AMStatus ::


Rank ::
Visits::9650
Nationality::Argentina
RE: Shang Tsung's True Form

I though he was just a sorcerer... not a demon,,,

Thread Closed
kiasydPosted: 02/14/2004 12:38 AMStatus ::


Rank ::
Visits::4589
Nationality::United States
RE: Shang Tsung's True Form

Whoa....Thats freaky I thought that shang tsung started of as a human that lost a mortal kombat tournment. I Know I remember reading it somewhere.....

"I have heard it said that it is better to keep your friends close and your enemies closer. Do you know what I mean?"
Thread Closed
kamioneroPosted: 02/18/2004 03:57 PMStatus ::


Rank ::
Visits::9650
Nationality::Argentina
RE: Shang Tsung's True Form

I thouth Ermac was in MK1 as a bug.. kind of like "Skarlet" in mk2... and they decided to call him Ermac... not as a real character....

Thread Closed
grizzlePosted: 02/21/2004 01:01 AMStatus ::


Rank ::
Visits::3477
Nationality::United States
RE: Shang Tsung's True Form

nah man, rasputin was a real guy. he was behind one of the causes that led to world war 1, freaky aint it. wait till you see a picture of this guy, pretty scary and looks a little like mk1 shang tsung.

Thread Closed
LegacyPosted: 02/21/2004 11:14 AMStatus ::


Rank ::
Visits::1066
Nationality::United States
RE: Shang Tsung's True Form

Shang looks way, way, way better in human form. I couldn't imagine seeing a character that looked like that say Shang Tsung when you select him!

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