I have to agree with my partner here. Most of his reply is what he discussed with me, so it has most of the points i would have made, but, heres another thing to think of.

Raiden, Fujin, Shinnok... i guess you can class Serrath too, considering hes God-Like too. These 4, if we were to do them properly, well, there would be no point in the other characters, because these 4 would be broken because they are gods and if we tried to show that they are above other characters because of that, then what is the point of their use in the game?

Its been said that the gods are in a mortal form, so they are restricted. How far the restrictions lie is another thing which has never been touched on.

We are not using a fighting style thing like Tekken, which if we did, we would be able to have a Jeet Kun Do methodology, like Byran using Kick boxing, Muay Thai and street fighting. But we arnt, we have decided to stick to what the 3D MK games have done, different styles. Though they would be somewhat personalized.

As for other parts, well, the post above says what i would have.

PAGE 1

Alright, I gotta stop right there. Right at page one. There's something wrong... Actually, there's too much I don't agree with collectively. Doesn't mean I'm gonna stop reading altogether, this is just a pause to address some things before I continue.

===But anyway, let's go in====

:::Intro.

1. Why did you guys recreate the tournament the same way as it has been done before? When I was reading it, I felt like I was reading the Mk1 movie over again. Seems like regardless of the different realm and the different host, it's the same thing.

It's like Shang Tsung is simply replaced with Abbadon, and Shang's island is replaced with Edenia.

So yea, Why no experimentation here? Ideas?

::::You could have had a contest that's been going on, that has been non associated with Mortal Kombat until this point in time, that was motivated by tradition...or business. Then, you could have guardianship over territory be the "prize". Or possession of a mutually appreciated jewel, some specially enhanced weapon or armor...or even extremely sensitive information.

Then, you could have it hijacked by someone or a group of individuals after Armageddon.

:::::Or, you could have had this non-associated contest, subjected to the events of Armageddon, and that consequently left that traditional contest, scarce for contenders to continue that tradition. Which would then merit THAT host, to seek out the best of the best.

:::::OR this non-associated contest, could be where the "non-champs" compete?...Because now, some of the "heros" positions need to be filled. And from this "non-associated" contest, you find the next pick of the litter. And develop them up.
=====
See what I mean? I just don't understand why you'd essentially remake something we've already seen, with the same type of "blueprint" (if you will) . Cuz so far, it seems like this contest either is going to have the same type of hierarchy, where this host is superseded by a "bigger boss" later, it's going to end early, with the defeat of this current Boss character, and host. OR, it'll go completely outside of the contest...just like the Mk games have already done.

=================
Abaddon is a Demon Lord, more specifically, the Demon Lord of Wrath. He is a tall, menacing figure in his hooded robe. Very few have ever seen what he truly looks like...

Is that not Shao Kahn? In alot of ways at least? Take away the wraith thing, and the hooded robe? Add some spikes and the speedos? lol

What about an Elder, or ill person, with which they "need to past the torch"?
The Boss battle could still be against him, but they could eventually, unexpectedly face his "True Form"? And as an extra incentive, the winner get's some wish(es) granted, or ultimate wealth, or whatever...something to where the gift is also a curse. Maybe the winner would not know that the Gods don't like that position because it supports evil or something...idk
=================

:::::Dairou

I like Dairou as a character, oddly, because I never really play with him in the games. I think he's one of those characters that I'm kinda paying attention to, but I'm waiting for something big to happen with him.

So mainly, I like that you basically kept him the same as in the games. I'll tell you what I REALLY liked about you guys' rendition though, is that twist between him, Hotaru, and Darrius. I hate Darrius, and wish somebody would just stab the fuck out of him...just get him outta here. But I like how you guys tied Darrius to the death of Dairou's family.

That was the best part for me with him. You obviously did a great job with his personality description, and his fighting components. Everything lines up right with him.

One question though, Why is his arena in Outworld? I would think that his arena should be some secret refuge area that he had to inhabit during his escape from prison on OrderRealm. That kind of concept on that realm just kinda intrigues me. Says that even though it's OrderRealm, there's something "dirty" about it. Much like all laws that prohibit people from investigating into personal cases without the evidence.

================

:::::Elena

Love the Javelin projectile!

She's an odd mixture isn's she, not dislikable however. Can I have some pictures for how she might look?

That's all I got for her, I like her, but I'm not "taken away" by her. She seems to have alot of "Harry Potter" in mind when I think about this concept.

==============

:::::Takako

In her Bio, could you specify "not too long ago"? "OrderRealm", ya know? Also, could you include some military jagen? Alot of abbreviations for things that they think saves them time to say? ETA's UAV's POV's ect...

Last thing is, even though we kinda have an idea of how strict the OrderRealms rule can be, could you have her explain the difference through an experience? I think it would help define the way she's thinking about things from the way she was taught to think about things.

A sort of "We were programed this way..through these exercises, BUT this is the way I think about it" type deal. She might have had a friend that she lost for a common way of thinking. Except for she didn't act out on it...or she wasn't caught. Like show her struggle more...y'know?

=============

:::::Anbar

I read this one more that twice, and I just realize that I'm not interested in her at all. There's nothing wrong with her...in fact, she's a well put together character. I'm just not interested in a "Resistance Fighter". I don't think it'll matter who's in the position so long as that's their motive.

Wouldn't be fair to critique this one, so I won't.
============

:::::Kaosu

Now, in opposition to Anbar, I love this character. lol Such an asshole. You know though, my only real quirk with him and even Havik, is why they wouldn't just screw with everybodies "organizations". "Ultimate wild card" is what I think of any mentionable character from the Chaos Realm. I think it would be even more cool if these guys went around creating false alignments with everybody. It makes sense that they are enemies with the Seidians, but it doesn't make sense that they would "align" with anybody...ever. aha..I mean but if you think about it, the members of the resistance are also from the OrderRealm too...so even though they're against the Government, their example of "fair" would likely still be too "organized" for prominent Chaos realm members.

I think they should be like the parasite of MK. They'd be the characters that are the "erie" feeling behind the fights, and the confine.

Have you seen that Will Smith movie "I am Legend"? Remember the "night seeker" at the end, when he kept banging his head up against the plexy-glass? How un-natural that was? I think that's the kind of senseless violence this character should have. I'd like this type of fatality to be a replacement for his "stretch" fatality. I just don't think those ever work out well...especially in terms of gaming.

Another one could be that he just bites the shit out of you...some artery might burst multiple times..or something. Characters from Chaos realm could be doing things with the flesh of a victim. Sllllooowwlyy tearing pieces off. Hooking people up with sharp objects(accupunture, maybe) ect..





First, How fun was it thinking up this stuff eh? Only part I don't completely agree with is the Stage Trap. I think it'd be better if it was a false grave that one of those hands tripped, or forcefuly pulled you into. Highly strategic getting someone into position to be grabbed by the right hands....Anyway, it's to where, you fell in....and just kept falling. The surroundings look like you're falling though Purgatory. Then, either some creature's feelers can catch you and tear you apart, or you could have the "light at the end of the tunnel" kind of complex here. Where you fall for a while, with no end in sight, until you reach some lava or something. The effect would be that you would pop back out of the body of lava like a water drop effects a body of water. Except, you're in the droplet, fighting hoplessly for your life, burning into a skeleton. Should look like something you see under a microscope. Or larva in it's cacoon.
============

:::::Mercurus

This guy oddly, is the opposition to other characters for me. It's to where I like everything about his story, personality, and his overall direction, but I do not like his look, or almost any of his moves or fatalities. Those don't fit with his story to me for some reason, although I do like the idea of them. Also,I wish he wasn't so attached to his mask
(or had long hair that kept the mask pretty much hidden from other characters untill he strikes//it's "scary" that way, and has a theatrical taste to it..art in motion even), and maybe as a subtely, he might have a thing about art, or "the artful quality" in everything around him since he's had some exposure to the theatre.

As a guy who has extremely vivid, explicit dreams myself, I relate to this character alot. And for an extremely rare instance with me, I appreciate that we don't know much about this guys past. I also think it would be cool if you guys mentioned a particular role that he liked to play in theatre. Could explain why he wears "which" mask, or why his overall look is a certain way regaurdless of him being a good guy. (like me for instance: I looke pretty scary to alot of people..especially when I had longer hair, but I'm a really nice guy, who happens to have terrific dreams./ex.)

Something about this character makes me want to leave him alone, and see what happens.

For his moves, since I mentioned them, the darts are interesting, but I'd like to see him be the enviornmental character. You might not even have to touch your opponent in a match to win, if you used him right. So he has nothing on him that he can readily use for a projectile. (!??! is right. plays into his mysterious past.)>> I think that he might be that Tony Jaa type character to where, there's not much we know about him...we just have seen him perfom excellently before, and noticed that "he refuses to use" certain "advantages" in a fight (like he never uses guns or explosives, but he will, and can use various weapons) . Maybe some little insident happened to him in the past that we can discover later.

He seems like he'd rely on his odd sense of "perfect timing", or serendipity. All his stuff should kinda seem lucky. He's like, the character that would depend on the game having destructible arenas and so on. So, if he used the darts, he'd throw it at something, that'd make a series of events happen in order to affect the other players behavior, and use those things to his advantage. He throws a dart at a boulder that falls(false alert), fliping up a tree limb, that he can kick in the direction of the opponent. He'd use dirt, bricks, sticks, rocks, and other things in the arena in a similar way. But you'd never be able to tell what exactly his projectile would be until you've had adequate exposure to him.

Now, I guess the darts that stun the opponent are fine, but I'd rather see something like that, and the Vicious pounce put together. To where that one move could have the potential for him to trigger his other moves in succession. "Odd sense of perfect timing". So when he flipps back off the vicious pounce(two handed high attack on pounce, flips back), he can throws darts while flipping back in the air, that stun the character for a very breif moment...just after he lands, they regain composure. If the player is efficient enough with this character, they can set off that other dart move I mentioned. Throw a couple darts at a destructible portion of the arena, that set off a different type of projectile for him. Makes the opponent, move thier ass. lol

And since he's had exposure to the theatres, it should all seem "impossible" to have happened in the fasion that it does...very set up.

The thing that really disagrees with this characters experiences with the theatre, that I like really, is the dreams...he seems like he should be on path to becoming a psychic. Or a shamen, or an oracle.

In a weird way, all his environmental manipulation, could be the way that "the gods" are giving him his purpose....just through their own method of message. Like, everytime he uses his "good luck" or his environmental prowess in a fight...he comes juuust a little bit closer to realizing that he's supposed to be a forecaster, and an envronmental commander (animals, plants..catastrophic events...ect)

His demenor, because of his past with the theatre and martial art, fits perfectly for commanding traumatic events like these. Because "he's seen all the tricks that man can faulsy produce". A connection with the gods could realize him his power over these things, and as a consequense of "what he refuses to do in his fights" now....nature loves him...ALOT. Just, later in his story, AND nature allows him a certain level of control over them that can mature.

Yea, I like this character, but there are some things about him that are juust kinda, idk.

I wanna mention too, that this guy could replace Scorpion in a few ways...but I'll wait to explain something like that.


----------------

I'm replying to the Raiden thing right now...

EDIT: Aheh, thought this post would be longer than that...

*Boom*



I don't think so. I think that a doppelganger would be obvious for Raiden, especially since he fought the real Shinnok before. Like fighting the same opponent twice or more...you'd notice. That they were missing certain qualities. Fighting tells you everything about an individual, and a fake, would be so obvious..

Also, anybody thought about the fact that these Gods are supposed to be able to look into a persons soul? Doppelganger?...should "look" different, right?




Okay cool....I guess. heheh... I'ma leave that one alone. I can accept that.




See, I think it does make Gods All Powerful. Because that's what the difference is between mortal, and God. Doesn't mean that there isn't something there that is contrary to the fact. You'd just have to find it about them...gods I mean. We've been shown that they can have disabilities through the cannon. All it takes is for someone to discover, and exploit the contrary. dig?

Riddle me this: Why is Raiden less powerful on other Realms? and for that matter: What makes him So special on Earth as a god?

If he's not all powerful, at least in his own domain and ones relative to it, Why ever fear him as a god? Why even call it god then? Why not just say he's a mortal that has the ability to control electricity? Which would be a much less degree of a being, albeit still powerful.

Look at it, Shao Kahn fears him, to an extent. Scorpion fears him, and he's dead already. As does Quan Chi, and Shang Tsung and every other non-god character...Shinnok even has some take backs about Raiden, and he's supposed to be a god//was an Elder God, a regulator for Raiden in a hierarchy. The only one I've seen that doesn't have any fear or take back about Raiden..is Onaga. Why?

My thesis?: "Worship, Rites, and Codes"

Worship is an extremely powerful--power source. It equals strength on an extravagant number of levels of interpretation.

Rites equal "super abilities", and privileges not bestowed on "lessor individuals".

Codes regulate the aforementioned, and allow there to be limitations within those^^ powers and abilities that are otherwise...limitless.

So why fear Raiden, or a god in general? Because they are the all powerful determining factor in any event or situation, within their domain and extent of power. The ultimate choice factor...and whether or not to interfer, is the most powerful choice a god could posses.

---

Why it seems kinda ridiculous to me that he would aheh, "need" any mortal contrived thing to produce him more power, is because his sources for limitless power, are in place already in my mind. lol

See, people pray for stegnth or guidance in some form or other. So if people//individuals know that their god is in some kind of trouble...they pray..FOR their ultimate leader. To strengthen the good in him/her(hm, that's an idea, where are the women gods? -- that, later) domain. Raiden is essentially, a Seriffum type God...essentially, a God of action. Like the Arch Angel Michael, except for Raiden's given a constant responsility over a certain place. Earth Realm

Why he shouldn't be all powerful on every realm, is because nobody worships him there, less mortals care about him there, or even knows about him there. It = Less of a source, in that place..for limitless power. NetherRealm, Chaos Realm, OutWorld..ect. And would therefor make realms like Edenia, and OrderRealm, places he could logically maintain an extent of "domain"

Makes sense to me to be blessed with the capability of ultimate greatness, but have that greatness, depend on the ones you oversee and regulate. Cuz if you're doing a good job as a god, people//individuals will give up more power to you willingly.

Therefor, your domain is a part of your code//regulation, and your source is a part of your code/limit.

So, he is "All Powerful"....it just needs to be subject to specifics. lol Cuz he's a god, y'know? Not supposed to be easy to figure out what his flaw is.

That's the best way I've come to understand a characters limit as a God. It's simple, complex, and makes perfect sense to me.
------

Lastly, when he dies in the cannon, something affects Raiden. Notes a loophole in the system that allows him godhood. Ah, so he CAN be affected, it just HAS to be riiiight there.

So if you kill Raiden, and screw with the order of how things are supposed to happen natually...he theoretically could get better or worse right there..at that time..in that place during his reformation. Because it's the only inconsistency in the order that makes him an All Powerful God in the first place.

There's the one invulnerability that Raiden//gods in general have, outside of being subject to worship, rites, or a god code of ethics and responsibility.

Makes sense....otherwise..he's just "another character with some special powers".

See?



Again, no it doesn't because he could logically draw power from a place that appreciates Raiden's kind of "Order". If I was Fujin, it's a safe place for me to go to look for him.

I see your point, however, but by "any means necessary" doesn't constitute, or let him allow the possibility of being found out about. Because then, he could be stopped prematurely in his plans. He would be willingly allowing himself that possibility. Which is not characteristic of his ambitions right now. He knows exactly what he's doing, he has ulterior motives and everything to justify what I'm talking about. So it wouldn't make sense for him to put himself in a possition of jeopardy. He'd need everything to be// or seem absolute in order for him to do what he's doing.

His ambitions are supposed to be secret. Right? Other gods and mortals would go right there to look for him. lol I'd think Fujin would be able to feel him there. Wouldn't surprise me at all if that were the case.
-------

My bit about him eventually looking to take control of the Nether was just an example of a result of him possibly defeating the supreme ruler, and his long time enemy there. Shinnok.

You'd also have to note the fact that Raiden has taint in him...and being in the Nether, the taint only strengthens within him instead of the opposition. But that's anybody for that matter. It's why in MkMythologies, Sub Zero has to get the "hell" outta there as fast as he can.

So it was an example of how screwed up "by any means necessary" could become, and what motivates that kind of chain of events, is a rivalry that could very well result in deeming Raiden unfit to reside over Earth any more.

Cuz if he stayed there, and was successful in defeating Shinnok(again)...he would have stayed there long enough to sustain too much taint, and therefor cancel himself out as the Protector of Earth Realm. So in that case, "he mind as well stay in the Nether, and rule that realm now"...Thus making him logically, an "Evil Boss" character.
---------

As far as him being in the Chaos Realm, "electricity". I would think that even though Raiden wouldn't gain any kind of substantial power from being there, the element that he controls would allow for an unorthodox "welcome" card to Raiden. And if he did find trouble...they'd oddly appreciated how he defeated any resident of that Realm.

So, I could see him going there for a "technically safe" refuge. And because he would pretty much go undisturbed. There's not a real threat to Raiden being there....Who? Havik? *zzap* Anybody else?

Would probably loose some power from being there, but he definately wouldn't gain anything besides a sort of base for putting together a method of execution for his ulterior motives. "Puppet Master" planning would go undisturbed in the ChaosRealm. Aheh, and if he still has control over the Z.Liu, what better place for him to hide right out in the open?

But yea, Raiden is the ultimate chaotic element man, should either stand out, or be left alone as a god...but blend right in as a chaotic elemental individual.

heh



Alright, alright, I can let that one go.. The Onaga thing seems kind of obvious though. I mean, everybody relevant from EarthRealm would know about Onaga retuning.

The purpose of Taven and Daegon's mission is a little more...secretive than the Onaga thing, I'd think.



I was basically talking about personalization within the style he uses, instead of trying to make a style we know of, fit him. Just make something up that characterizes how he already is.

Specifically though watch how Azula uses her fingers to direct electricity. I think Iroh's in there too for a breif second, in which case, look at how he channels lightning through his body, and out through the fingers. That's a "Raiden Trait".

I'm saying, he should be using his body as though it were a conductor of electricity...Stomach is the source in most cases of chi power, with the limbs, and or weapons often acting as the extention of that power source.

So, if he's supposed to be a controller, or a conductor of lightning himself, how should he direct that energy?

Probably, and most frequesntly like this to direct the electricity. Either that, or something like this, to express the extreme in a special move or Fatality. With all arched fingers instead of the pointed two fingers or balled fists.



I failed to relpy to this part at first I see...So, without further adieu:

Ah, I had to have missed that. I don't know how...but I did. heh

And with that said; Why, in a million years (or better eternal, since Raiden is eternal as far as time is concerned) hasn't Raiden mastered everything? Every martial arts...even if it's just a story notation and not an actual gameplay attribute of his? Why isn't that an easy choice for a character that is ageless? I mean, what do you do with the time? Especially once you've got the hang of your job as protector of a planet. AND, might I add, this is considering A possibility that he could have not known any fighting style in his beginning...

Hypothetically now, 750+ styles mastered, could easily be accomplished in 1000 years. For a God character....somewhere recent in his back story. Or millions of years, in his back-story. OR, you could just make him the creator of martial arts for man on Earth. And his style...could be what everybody is working towards. Making the masters of Earth, the closest thing to what Raiden designed as a "perfect" martial art.

But anyway, I'd much rather see a completely fictional style for Raiden, or for that matter, any character that is a god, or extremely resistent to age.

So characters that are thousands of years old like Kitana, should have something that was probably contrived on her own realm..but is completly made up. And at the same time, what makes her special in the arena, is the concentrated version of the martial arts that she is using. "She changed IT to fit her...like many real life martial artist have done over time. (Bruce Lee is an easy example)

Characters that are millions of years old, mind as well be the creators of martial arts. Or the concetrate of the hybrids that followed and that still exsist. Yes, we should be able to trace it back to them if we looked at it hard enough.



There is some confusion about that, but who was the first wasn't really the point I was after. My point was that Raidens old enough to, within a spectrum of reason, be considered the "orignial" sensei for man. And if that were the case...with the introduction of mortal kombat, he could've been responsible for teaching the first Mortal Kombat champion. Or at least the first sensei...that taught the first champ.

Just a hypothesis, or more just a speculation really.



You got me here, I guess I'm just disappointed at his in-game interps, and seeing some of the same likenesses here...that anguish, followed over. I'll try to be more considerate here with you guys. That's my fault.



I'll admit I wrote that in a little bit of a haste....and out of disappointment that I lost my other post..lol But there is reason behind that statement however. So while I'm not gonna take that back, let me explain in better detail.

It's about characterization really. When a character is generalized by only a couple "traits", what basically happens, is it takes away from the make-up of that character...and what's supposed to "define" them. Even though the character is supposed to be defined by those traits.

So with that said, just because he's got the staff, the hat, and the lightning, doesn't mean he's being described properly. Just means you're talking about him in general. Or any character with though traits for that matter.
----
What I was disappointed about, was that the styles that he has been given, are confined to the notable traits of Raiden. Instead of his traits, attitude, and age determining his style. Only now do I see that you've got a sort of back-up style(Rajinken) that sounds more like Raiden. Maybe I missed it or something while I was reading. So I am willing to take that blame there also.

But, to me "Rajinken" sounds much much better in terms of fantasy being associated with a God character.....I think it should be some made-up, un-believably fictional style when you're talking about any god fighting character. When there's "god" associated with a character...it reeks of the potential to just....make something up anyway...Cuz who's to tell you it's wrong..but a god, right? Unless the attributes of the style don't personify that character...but that's what I'm doing now..

Anyway, I think it would be most likely, that a God wouldn't use a hybrid or subsequent martial arts style...he/she would have his own, pure style...the "original" version of the subsequent styles we know. *on and on into imagination*..

======

Same thing for the costume. Though I like the premise of what you have there for him, here's my take:

Samurai Yori

I could see him being comfortable in something like this during a time where he's more "action prone". But the thing is, I believe that a god would always, dress down about whatever he's doing. After all, they're supposed to be the the last "supreme" -- or "unstoppable" entity...especially in a fight.

So what I would suggest here, is "flare" or "audacity" shown through his costume(and actions..but that's something else complimentary). So, it'd be obvious that he's wearing the yori, but he'd probably lack all, or alot of the pads and guards. Statement about what he has on should say: If you can hit him....you deserved to be respected for it. You just hit a God...aheh.

If he kept any of the pads, they'd be a soft material....Stuff that's simply there to show that it's a Japanese traditional yori. I mean, and if you look at it from this perspective, you could see a progression in the way they first designed Raiden, to now.



Everything still looks really flexible, and soft. I also don't see a problem with turning his accent color to red(blood red).

Now, on to the Jingasa. I think that now, since he's being characterized as "dark", and especially because he's a god, the had should absolutely be a contribution to "audacity" or a "condescending supreme" sort of attitude.

If he's actively seeking out enemies now, he should be presented in away that says "this is the face of death". And for good reason.

I'd couple that yori description with this Straw Jingasa. Lol It's so extravagant...so contradictary to all the correctness of the myth.

Plus, it looks like the guy from Big Trouble in Little China...so, it's just..cool lol. But really, there's a mystery to it, and if he's portrayed right, in his actions, investigation of "what's under the hat should yeild something terrific. If you take that, and make it a sort of special effect that is actually his skin....you start to get a realization of what's happening to Raiden with the taint.

And that's if he's going down this path of eventually becoming an "evil character". If not...then just showing his face would be fine.
---------------

Lastly here, is the Power Scale thing I was talking about. It's insignificant I suppose, but in his story somewhere, I'd like to know where he fits on the scale of 1-10. Who still fears him since the taint? Does he have to channel his power now, since the taint?

And if he did sacrifice again, since he's tainted, would that same effort, yield the same result? Maybe since he's still mostly good, he wouldn't have to...but that's up to you as the writer to decide...and explain why.

Gives a sense of how powerful he thinks he is, and how hard he has to work to show it now. Saaay, he notices something about his power over electricity. He's been getting gradually weaker, or something.. that'd give him a sense of urgency...and we all know what a time limit does to people.("by any means necessary"..ect) "Power Scale//level"...how powerful is he now?

Could be shown through how easy it is for others to use their more powers. Which, btw, I've been wondering what would happen to Quan Chi or Shang Tsung if they were affected, but in the opposite way? They were all there after all.



It did clear things up a bit...and it made me go back and respond in the way I wanted to in the first place. Haha! I mean, there are some ideas for moves and fatalities and stuff that I can't remember...but essentially, this is what I wanted to say in the first place.

I don't know about Tekkens styles, but I'd much rather see the Raijinken style in there than what's there...that's if you guys can consider it.

::::===========================================::::



I don't view it like that. See, you can make any character as powerful as you want...you just want to make sure that there's a fault there that can be exploited by someone of a similar calibur.

Gods, portrayed as "all powerful" don't necessarily mean that they're broken. It just means you haven't figured out the one crucial thing it might take..to break them.

In the arena, of course they'd need to saaay sacrifice god rites to participate//become human. That's just logical to the fact of balance. But even then, it should be understandable why they are vulnerable in the arena. And not in their stories. See what I'm saying?

Their point of use in the game is more a, "If mortals can do it in this condition, so can I...now watch me prove it".



Yea mm, I got that loud and clear now. Aheh, But that was my initial point though...it was that I wanted you guys to elaborate on it. I see now that I haven't caught up in reading enough just yet....but I will.



That's fine. But again, please understand that I don't care about what Tekken's doing. I'n thought I'm like....hm.... "innocent" in seeing potential for my favorite character.

Just means that I see it in a little bit different light than that. It's more contrived from the personality I see that Raiden has, rather than looking at it, and trying to stay away from what other games are doing.
=======================

I gotta apologize again for my post about Raiden in particular. Because no matter what I do, the way I explain him is gonna be a bit bias...or even insensitive to the way other..non-fans of Raiden are gonna perceive him. Add to that, how much right now the character is being mis-interpreted("Raiden iz 3v1l cuz he in teh Bl4ck!). Just means I'm used to "only " correcting people...and not having intelligent conversations about it.

Plus, Raiden's like 3rd on the totem for "face of MK"...so I don't get this opportunity as often as I do to talk about other, more popular characters.


But hey, bottom line here, is you guys provoke the thought.

--
I'll do the next page next..and so on, and so forth.

151

Sorry for not getting to your responses right away. I had to find the right time to be able to gather my thoughts for a response of my own. I'm going to address the Raiden stuff before I get to the 1st page contents.

Story



Well, the doppelganger seems to have at least some of the same abilities as the real Shinnok. Either way, Raiden would want him destroyed.



Raiden doesn't have authority in those other realms.



Well, it has to do with his goals, which I can't get into at this point. The thing is, he currently doesn't have the power he needs to achieve his mission, hence why he's in search of these artifacts. IF he truly did have access to "limitless" power, he would have already achieved his goal, but that's clearly not the case.



I think that the Seidans would appreciate his kind of Order, because I could see him being that strict enforcer and all that. About Fujin trying to look for him, that doesn't make any sense, because he and others do not know that Raiden is still out there.



You kind of have a point about none of the Chaosrealmers standing a chance against Raiden, but Chaosrealm is against the ideal of how Raiden wants Earthrealm to be. I don't think Raiden is the ultimate chaotic element. The idea is to go for a Ra's Al Ghul or Magneto type influence.

Gameplay



He is said to have mastered different styles of Jujutsu, so it'd make sense for him to use Hontai Yoshin Ryu. Also, when we give these characters various martial arts styles and weapons, we don't want to be too confined to simply just what those styles use.



Those 750+ styles are Jujutsu styles (or going by the older names such as Taijutsu, Yawara, Kumiuchi, etc.). It's an interesting idea to have Raiden be the originator of Earthrealm martial arts. However, that's not what I want to go for, and it would conflict with certain things within MK itself.

For example, in MK's storyline, Takeda is the creator of Ninjutsu, deriving it from techniques of the Lin Kuei. If he developed Ninjutsu as a means of working towards what Raiden designed as a "perfect" martial art, it would contradict the established backstory.

Another example is with Bo' Rai Cho being the creator of Zui Quan (Drunken Fist). He also is said to have helped Muso Gonnosuke Katsuyoshi in creating Shinto Muso Ryu Jojutsu. It was Muso's intention of beating Miyamoto Mushashi that led to creating the style, not anything to do with Raiden.

About the idea of non-Earthrealm characters having made up styles, that's something I was thinking about for a different MK project idea altogether, namely a remake of Mortal Kombat. Like I said before, if we were to give made up styles to all characters or at least the non-Earthrealm characters, we'd have to change the system we had in mind for Resurrection and have something else in the sequels. The main focus of our project is mainly for the story and characters. Although, this isn't to say that we don't want to give importance to the gameplay stuff, but it's just that we aren't going to go too in-depth when talking about the gameplay.

Costumes

So you like the premise of what we have for him, but what about the actual costumes themselves? Did you see the yoroi concept for him for one of his costumes?

Maybe we'll give him the straw jingasa for a costume later on. Again, he's not going to path of an "evil character", just more of an "anti-villain".

Power Scale

When you brought up the power scale, I thought you were talking about gameplay. I had this image in my mind of Raiden easily dealing a huge amount of damage. In terms of the gameplay, he'll be pretty powerful. In terms of the story, that's something I need to discuss with Paragon, because we haven't given that too much thought. Good idea about him getting weaker though. We may implement that for the story.

---------------------------------

With that said, now onto the 1st page contents...


Intro

The thing about this tournament is that it's not about fighting to save one's realm from being taken over by another realm like the way MK1 was. This tournament is about winning to obtain a great prize. You do have a good idea about having some characters try to hijack the tournament. That's something we probably should have put in. Aside from that, I can't say too much, but I think that maybe we should have gone for a stronger approach to presenting this tournament story.

Btw, Abaddon isn't a wraith. The word there is wrath.

Dairou

I like Dairou as well. He's definitely one of the underrated characters, but one that I actually see some good potential in. I personally don't hate Darrius, but I wouldn't have wanted him to come back anyway. I'm glad you like what we did for Dairou. Why his stage is in Outworld has to do with his story. He left Seido as he is a felon there, and he doesn't care about the Order/Chaos conflict. With stuff going on in Outworld, he could get better business, and hence, he did.

Elena

I'm glad you like her. The odd mixture was to go for a nice little dynamic. As for pictures of how she looks, Paragon did a drawing of her, which we both thought we already posted here. But once again, here it is:

Elena's costume

I don't think the intention was to go for a Harry Potter type influence. She has kind of a Wiccan influence to her, from what I understand.

Takako

About the "not too long ago" thing, it was a year ago or something like that. I don't know if we're going to include some military jargon, but we'll see what happens. If you go back to her bio, Takako says that she's forbidden to do anything about pursuing the attackers that terrorized the part of the city where her parents live. This is because it's unknown who was involved in the attack.

For Takako to try and pursue Anbar, the one she thinks is responsible for the attack, would be to take the law into her own hands, which wouldn't sit well with the Seidan way. You could say that the Seidans are programmed in a certain way.

Anbar

I felt that we needed an antagonist in Seido to keep the conflict going, but I didn't want her to simply be a "female Darrius". She's one of those characters that I knew wouldn't likely get an overall positive feedback from.

Kaosu

I'm glad you really like him. It's good to know that the dynamic of his personality really helped in making him interesting. I don't know about the false alliances thing, but I'll put that in the "maybe" stuff. The alignment with the Seidan Resistance has to do with the mutual idea of bringing about chaos and anarchy to Seido, something that the Chaosrealmers would want, especially Havik.

Paragon and I have not seen I am Legend, so I can't really say anything in regards to those ideas. A false grave idea would be interesting.

Mercurus

I'm glad you like him a lot. I wanted to put a lot of effort into his character for certain reasons. Your observations and ideas for him were a bit perplexing at first.

About his look, I did realize that it was a bit rushed and last minute. The masks are meant to symbolize aspects of his personality. I should have saved the mask of Xiahou Dun for another time and for another costume. I'll likely keep the mask of Zheng Wun, because I like the look of it, and it captures the essence of his serious, violent, and ill-tempered side.

If and when we do sequels, I'll probably pull a Blitzwing by having a mask switch concept, sort of like how Blitzwing's faces switch. I do want to keep those Chinese opera type elements to his costume, but at the same time, I'd like to make sure that his look and feel are MK-ish.

Btw, in his story, he expressed interest in the martial arts stuff in the opera, and that had a part in his interest of wanting to study martial arts. So when there was a demonstration of martial art students from Shaolin, he got his way into training as a student. Although not becoming a Shaolin monk, he did train under Kung Lao, something I should have mentioned in the bio.

His ambiguous past is of course intentional. Whether his past will be revealed is up to the direction taken in the sequels. I wanted to have his story open for various paths that he can go in. He could become a hero, a villain, an anti-hero, an anti-villain, or just something else entirely, if that's even possible.

As I said in previous posts, the usage of darts was an idea that Paragon came up with. I guess that Mercurus would try to use his environment to his advantage. I mean, he's not a super strong character, but he's not weak either. However, against the likes of someone such as Abraxis, he'll need to especially be cunning in how to take him down.

I'm not sure about the stuff regarding the "odd sense of perfect timing", but maybe I'll work something of the sort in later. Good idea about trying to mix in certain specials together. I would like to try to make him crazy and unpredictable in his gameplay style, especially since he uses Drunken Monkey style Kung Fu.

When it comes to the "dreams", they are more like distorted visions or something like that. It's not intended to be something shamanic or anything like that. It has to do with his weird behavior as well as certain things that I can't get into right now. He's the type of character that's trying to find his way in life and to search for answers and for help.

I don't understand how he could replace Scorpion. Mercurus is simply meant to be a very different kind of MK character that will go against certain expected things. He's a crazy guy, but he's not the typical nutjob weirdo.

I'm glad you like him, and I hope to improve him and make sure that he stays fresh and interesting.

-------------------------------


Thanks for reading and giving such detailed and constructive feedback. It took a little while to gather my thoughts and to come up with my response, but I'm glad I managed to do it. I look forward to more of your feedback soon.

lol well, duh

*thumps your forehead*

The source of his power as a god is important concerning where he can be and have authority. What I'm trying to get you guys to experiment with, is what his source is, what was it before the sacrifice, if it has changed since the sacrifice, or if it is in jeopardy now. Because if it has changed, he could hypothetically go anywhere and it not effect his performance as a god character. Which would mean that the taint within him is irrelevant, because all it did then, was changed his attitude. And if that's simply the case...he's at liberty to simply....change his mind-set, and motivations, and continue his duties as he would have without the presents of Armageddon as an event that actually happened.

He's not a human, so ya gotta consider his power source and if it is//has been affected.

See, if you're not considering his attributes as a god character, you're essentially disregarding the fact that he's a god. And therefor, you're disconnecting from the priority a god character should have over a mortal character. Cuz there is an order to things in mortal kombat...it's just not clear all the time.

So if I reformulate the question I asked, in response there, it'd look like this: Authority given by what?//Who?//Why?
What makes it so that he can have authority//power on earth, and not other places?

It's important because, people in the story will pay attention to what he's doing, where he's going, and why he's doing whatever you have him doing. Like I am now.

I'm saying if it's not something you guys are considering, you're basically talking about Raiden like he's a human with some special powers. And that he is essentially, easily disposable. Which is not the case in any instance I can remember a god character in a story. They're always extremely hard to get to, talk to, fight, or win against. So should Raiden, and Fujin, and Shinnok, and I guess Taven be, now.





Access to limitless power, doesn't mean it's readily available to him. Like, he can't just tap right into it's unlimitedness..lol. In my concept, gods are subject to the conditions of their authority. Their authority is subject to the mortals they oversee and protect. So, if they are doing a great job as god and protector, they retain the power given to them, by their mortals, through the fact that gods are worshiped.

I see it like a meter, or gauge. Worship supplies Raiden a potentially unlimited source of power, immortality, super abilities..ect. It's alot like democracy...See there? But there's a condition attatched to the unlimited source. Which is practical to the real life order of "God > Mortal".

Gods, only remain gods because people..believe in them. And that's all gods need for power // additional power. Not a man-made-"artifact". All they need to do, is their job, and they are as powerful as they ever need to be....for anything.

In mortal kombat, they are employed by the elder gods. So, logically, by the ladder of "Chain of Command", the elders could produce an "Ethics Code", or "God Code" for gods. Thus, limiting gods again, except this limitation is mainly to prohibit them from doing whatever the hell they want to get to that potentially unlimited power source.

For instance, Raiden can't go around and grant everybody's wish to be millionaires so that more people will worship him, lol...which, it would hypothetically make him even more powerful. But it wouldn't be a just power bump for him because it goes against the freedom of "Choice" for mortals, and takes away from people choosing their own destiny. That's why he won't just jump into a mortal kombat contest and help his mortals every time...It's why the Elder Kung Lao was allowed to die...why Liu Kang was allowed to die....and the violation of that order in MKDA, allows the FMV in MKD...to happen. Cuz there's no champ there, that Raiden can allow to fend for the realm himself, and or die anymore. Raiden HAS to step in and do something at that point.

Therefor, MkD's fight with Shang and Quan was within the parameters of Raidens authority. Especially because Raiden is the ultimate protecting force for his realm, whenever in jeopardy. Especially as unfair as it was for that games story.

"A God Code // Code of Ethics"

See what I'm saying?
-------------------

Telling me he "needs" an artifact for anything...let alone to increase his powers?...Just doesn't make sense to me.

I mean, if the artifact was a key for access to somewhere, I could see him needing a key...But even then, he's got access to Heaven and Hell and anywhere in-between. Doesn't make sense for him to "need" a key either.



You have a valid point here, especially since the taint happened and the mentality adjustment. In fact I agree that they Would appreciate his "kind" of Order.

My point though, is that it is that likness, that is the fault in disquising an ulterior motive.

And that the OrderRealm would be a safe place for other individuals to look for him...talk to him..and or try to stop him.

As you you guys have indicated, Raiden wants Fujin to mind his distance. So why would Raiden stay within proximity of Fujin's logical exploration for him?
I'm assuming that Gods normally talk to each other on a regular basis too. Raiden is still one of Fujin's confidons...wouldn't you look for your confidon?



Logically though, Raiden wouldn't impose his type of law on another Realm. He'd most likely seek a safe, unpredictable refuge. He's not a lunatic, he just has a "tic". A specific "tic" at that.

As for the Magneto or Ras Al Ghul complex. I see why you would go there. Ras more than Magneto. At the same time though, there is no ultimate scheme to topple societies make up in the works.

Like I was saying, it's specific. He wants to rid the Earth of a threat. Those threats to Earth are precisely:

Shinnok
Onaga
Shao Khan
Shang Tsung and Quan Chi
And all the Clans besides the order of light and Shaolin monks affiliates.

It is a specific target, with the addition of "get rid of the threat by any means necessary".

Only thing that's questionable right now, is how is gonna go about doing that, and if he makes any mistakes.



I don't think it has to conflict with anything. People use what they've been doing to "create" something new. Never jeopardizes the fact that these things are always derived from something else.

Also, it's never as a "means" to purposely do anything except to strive for better through martial arts. If Raiden were the creator for martial arts on Earth, the first style he ever taught anybody would be so watered down by now anyway. Less, the Order of Light and the Shaolin Temples ...So, I didn't mean to imply that everybody knew that Raiden has the most perfect martial arts style, and that, all the styles that they were making up, were only made up in order to get to what they think " Raidens perfect style" is. That's not the point at all...

The only point in that idea, was to create a source. A source for why earth gets to defend themselves in Mortal Kombat. Raiden is logically the source of defense for earth, the mortals of earth would reasonably want to mimic that source, to the best of their ability within the parameters of choice...and they win as a result. Cuz they have an excellent source//God = Raiden.



Yea, I liked what you had there. But I think it was too confined to the rule of a yori..technically. And technicality would take a back seat for someone who is millions of years old, and the protector of EarthRealm.

So yea, he'd have a yori on, but he'd wear it relaxed, or made of various un-conventional materials. Like Zues to the greek mythology wears all his stuff improperly.

ThePredator151:

I think the first thing to consider is asking what context of being a "god" Raiden falls under. For instance, in DC comics, gods...such as Ares, Athena, and so on...are depicted in a similar manner to what you describe. Meanwhile, in Marvel comics, gods...such as Thor, Loki, and so on...are simply supremely powerful, immortal beings. So I think the first thing to bear in mind, over anything else, is to wonder what category does Mortal Kombat's Raiden fall under?

But, let's say he falls closer to the DC interpretation, which is similar to your vision of what a god should be. I don't know if you follow DC comics, but in the DC universe, the gods' power is dependent on how much they are believed in...and in the DC universe, Zeus...the god of thunder and lightning, just like Raiden...has become one of the weakest gods. Because in today's society, while they may not worship Ares by name...war and conflict is still a major part of the world. With the science revolution and the advancement of technology, there is greater emphasis on knowledge and wisdom (Athena) than ever. And love remains a great passion just as war is.

So in the DC universe, Ares, Athena, and Aphrodite are the most powerful of the Greek gods...where Zeus has become one of the weakest because people no longer tremble in fear at the sound of thunder. Bearing in mind that Mortal Kombat, more or less, takes place in today's society, why should Raiden be any more powerful as a god than DC's version of Zeus? They are both he gods of thunder and lightning.

But that aside...it still isn't so unbelievable that Raiden would require certain items and relics to further his ambitions. Since Sub-Zero_7th's story is similar to the one I'm doing in this department, I'll explain Raiden's motives for needing such relics from my storyline.

In my story, Raiden's goals are as follows:
- overthrow & destoy the Elder Gods...possible steal their power for himself
- reshape Reality in the way he believes it should be

A god Raiden may be, but I don't believe he...in himself...has the power to accomplish this. He utilizes the Dragon Medallion and Shinnok's Amulet to increase his power...so that he may be able to battle the Elder Gods. ALSO, figure the energy and power needed to remake all of Reality as he sees fit. Shinnok's Amulet, which also has power to bridge realms, will be utilized to maintain Raiden's power across all the realms and help him fuse them together. The Sceptre of Ma'at, which in my story holds power of order, will be used to ensure Reality is remade as Raiden wants it to be. And the Viduus Talisman so Raiden can harness and control the power of the soul...because, once again, Raiden is only the god of thunder and lightning

Raiden is not a god of creation. He cannot forge realms. And he cannot create life. They few times Raiden has been depicted delving into that sort of power, it's either been bending the rules in a desperate time (resurrecting Johnny Cage in MK4), or unnatural and wrong (reviving Liu Kang's corpse).

Speaking of which, look at Raiden's Armageddon bio and it states he learned of those powers from a sect of necromancers. I mention this because of your point that it's ridiculous for a god to require power forged by mortals. He clearly does. But more on that point, why is it so ridiculous? Within these stories, mortals frequently delve into divine powers to revive the dead, travel realms, etc. Why would a god NOT be swayed by such power? And going back to my storyline, the relics Raiden sought were all of divine origin anyway. I don't know what specifics Sub-Zero_7th has in mind with HIS story, but I imagine it's on a similar wavelength as mine.

So I don't think Raiden's ambitions and his means of achieving those ambitions are so unbelievable just because he's a god. Even gods have their limitations.

Eastern Ideology: "All Powerful, All Seeing, All knowing, Invincible"....what have you.

with a backdrop of

Western Ideology: Because he is in fact, Accessible to mortals, however scarce, and subject to priority and or opportunity.


Mortal Kombat is an Eastern created, and motivated game // gaming experience(Hollywood is, and has always been written all over this franchise. It is an American game...), that has a strong presence from Western influence. Mainly Western in it's presentation. Which, they are slowly moving away from more and more, as a matter of fact.

The story telling fashion, and fantasy elements of the game are Eastern//American-ized. The art direction, and character influences are Western//Japanese (in particular).
---

That's how I've looked at it since Mk1, and discovering that Raiden, an actual God, can make himself mortal to compete in a mortals fighting contest.



Good point. But, here's some reasons why:

1. People still believe in Raiden, and are still looking to follow his lead. In the cannon stories I mean. And until we see Armageddon pass completely, and mortals are able to realize that something disconcerting has happened to Raiden...AND they get over the facts of what he's doing....I don't see any reason why people aren't still worshiping him right-now.

2. Individuals from other realms still recognize, and fear him as the main god of the free world. Hell, fear would give any-individual power over another....But it's not Fujin doing that to other realm citizens, it's Raiden doing that. See? I mean, Fujin is likely recognized as "the god of wind", but I can't conclude that people definitively know that Raiden is now supposed to be a part of the Elder Gods "circle". Cuz if people did know about this change in positioning about the gods of EarthRealm in MK, they would probably stop worshiping him, and worship Fujin instead.

Lotta variables in there, but the point is, Raiden still maintains a presence as the "leader-god" in the MK world.

3. If we kept in mind current societies census on mythological gods, then you'd be completely wrong, just as those comics would be, in their idealisms about those particular characters. Because that's an old ideology that imposes itself on the future...which is now our past btw. However similar it may seem to actuality, that, in particular, is a couple hundred year old perspective on what the future holds.

Now, In the particular case of DC's gods and the same thinking, it's still a few decades old a perspective on what the future would grant whatever god, and however much power. Cuz it is a perspective of old, that considers the fears of old.

- -Besides that, Gods of thunder and lightning are still well known, as the most powerful of all the gods. And while I agree that technology and war contribute to wisdom, war, and love, it only merits a spike for those "lessor" mentioned gods' "power gauge"(if you will). It's also, "period of time" sensitive too.

Whereas, World War 2 would probably have been the last significant "power boost" for a god like Ares...but then it should drop off. Almost in conjunction with that, Aphrodite could have logically "spread love"....and Thus we have alot of Baby Boomer children today(lmao). Following that time period, Athena would probably benefit from what we learned from fighting and "humping around"...and on into the current "information age". Zeus still would maintain the constant...even though I was being pretty silly with all that..

Point is, War doesn't last forever....and at some point, Somebody's gonna start praying that the fighting ends....and then, all it takes is for Zeus to hit the reset button on Earth. hahaha...

Or however the hierarchy works..."Athena & Aphrodite inform Zeus that his son is acting up on Earth"...and "zap" lmao. Alright, I'm done being silly now.

4. Earth is still in a very primitive, and fragile state. Because of that, people still need something to re-assure them, guide them, empower them. So they worship, and most people that do worship, still worship a higher force // being of some sort. Right now, current day.

5. There are more people on the Earth worshiping at once than there are fighting at once...

Five reasons are good enough.




Why would you have him do those things? Doesn't make sense...he never said that he wanted to change reality. There's nothing wrong with Reality. He simply said, he wants to rid EarthRealm of those who harmed it. So why are you doing that?(with respect to your artistic hand, of course.) This is not a condescension, I really don't get why you'd have him doing those things..Just the same as I don't understand why we're having him go get artifacts to make him more powerful....what?

Look,

:: The system the Elder Gods have in place works perfectly fine. And again, he has access to all the power he needs(imo)...notably, under their rule. So even though I understand he's had disagreements with the Elder Gods before, They are not the target. They have not "harmed EarthRealm".

:: Reshaping Reality, is not within reasonable parameters of his motivations...according to the cannon.

:::::: Instead, you should explain what he does to rid EarthRealm of "those who have done harm, to EarthRealm".

...and why hasn't anybody mentioned the fact that Zombie Liu is supposed to be wreaking havoc right now? WHO is the real target here? WHO has done harm to EarthRealm, in MK's past?

It's these individuals that I mentioned earlier:

Shinnok
Onaga
Shao Khan
Shang Tsung and Quan Chi
And all the Clans besides the order of light and Shaolin monks affiliates.


**, Do you not see that written right there? I know -- I am not crazy.



You're right, he shouldn't have the power to do those things....But that ain't what he's aiming to do...It's not even the direction he going in.

So it doesn't make sense that he would even desire that kind of power boost...cuz he doesn't need it to do what he's really trying to do. Also, he's not weak at all right now anyway, He'd jump all over Shinnok...AGAIN. Raiden can beat Shao Kahn on even territory, and he would pound the shit, out of Quan Chi and Shang Tsung on even ground. Hell, he barely lost when he was in the wrong realm against them last time....and arguably, he killed them anyway when he sacrificed himself.

There's only one he'd probably have a problem with right now, and it is Onaga. On even ground or otherwise. That's the only character so far...

---

On another note. You're right, he doesn't have power to mend realms and command souls. But I think it's subjective. He'd need a "key", "code", or "spell" in order to be able to exercise those "rites", as a god. Just like he has in his MkA bio, in order to reanimate Liu's body.

See? He has the power to violate the "God Code of Ethics" I was talking about in my concept. But the rules prevent him from using his resources irresponsibly. I have no doubt that he can guide souls to and or from Heaven(especially Heaven) or Hell. But he's not going to violate the rule, and do those things, unless it is an exceptional exception...or unless there's something screwing with his priorities and moral standing about things. "Taint".



I believe it to be within his realm of power, and jurisdiction to be the creator of martial arts for Earth. It falls under protecting Earth.. Raiden is the protector of Earth, and obviously he can't do all the fighting himself. So, it'd make sense if at some point, long long ago, he armed a mortal, or group of mortals with the skill to defend themselves. "Order of Light(ning)"(gave them whatever styles) and or Shaolin Monks(gave them the animals styles)...would be my best logical guess and recommendation for MK.

Then, what do humans do? Other people see what they're doing, and mimic...and it spreads throughout the world until everybody has their own defined styles.

The structure is already there in Mortal Kombat for this....just need to clarify it with a good sensible idea.

---

Other than that, you're exactly right. He can't create life...but he can defy death infinitely. He can't mend realms...but he can traverse them as he wants to.

He Doesn't Need "More Power" to do those things, nor is there merit for him to want to.

Life will create itself given a productive environment, other realms are irrelevant to that fact unless they threaten to stop that process.



Dude, Raiden has necromancy powers...they just take a back seat to the thunder and lightning.

According to Jonny Cage's re-emergence. Raiden helps Jonny Cage resrtore his deceased SOUL.

and a more detailed example:

The infusion of a thunder cap into the corpse, and the COMMAND to set free the corpse, in order to reak havoc on those who have done harm to EarthRealm.

ALL of that falls right under the definition of necromancy, and the ability to communicate with, and or command the dead in order to predict or influence the future. Which is exactly what he's doing with Zombie Kang...right now.

:::::More than half the MKA roster have necromancy powers....and Raiden, is one of them that does have it also. It's just to a very limited extent.

=====

Gods have divine rites, attributes, and special abilities. So should they also have an Ethics Code//God Code....

Right now, Raiden is in violation of a "God Code", because of "by any means necessary", pertaining specifically to "ridding EarthRealm of those who have harmed it.

No matter where they are, what they're doing now...none of that matters because the "best two in the known universe are coming to kill you". What matters is the fact that those individuals abused a stay on EarthRealm(Just like Shujinko did, however out of ignorance.). The Elders don't fall under that category just because they got on his nerves once or twice, remember? They refused to intervene. Nor does reality play a part in getting "the bad guys".

And going to get artifacts for a power boost still seems ridiculous...because he can out smart, or just kill all but one of the threats himself and or with Zombie Liu Kang.

Explain how he and Z. Kang kill the bad guys, and how they topple Onaga.... Any snags they run into on the way, and whether or not they get caught.

151

Right from the start, we have a problem, because I don't think Raiden or any of the other god characters in Mortal Kombat are like that.

They're clearly not invincible since they can and have been beaten in combat. Also, Raiden had no idea what was going on with Shujinko until it was too late...Fujin didn't know the full details of Argus' contest...so on. While the gods in MK have a higher awareness of things, they clearly are not "all seeing and all knowing"



But who's worshipping him? Mortal Kombat takes place in the modern day. Aside from the Shaolin monks, who is worshipping Raiden? The Earth heroes regard him as a leader and guide, but are they worshipping him and if so, is that sufficient to justify the power you claim Raiden has? Did the events of MK3 make everyone abandon Christianity, Judism, & Islam and convert to Raidenism? Or does everyone believe Raiden is God? From what I've gathered, the battles and tournaments of Mortal Kombat happen largely beyond the knowledge of average people...who, I suspect regard Raiden and his ilk as fictional mythology...unless the events of MKIII changed that.



So Zeus remains the lead god because that's what all the old mythologies tell us? See here's the problem with your idea about how "worship" and belief supplies power. From this logic, just because people know of Zeus, that grants him power and still makes him the leader of all gods...even though no one worships thunder and lightning anymore. There's no mystery to it anymore...people don't believe it to be divine messages of gods. We've come to understand it's merely atmospheric discharge...and it's that knowledge that cripples Zeus' power.

Also, gods of thunder and lightning are not all known as the most powerful gods. Only Zeus was a leader. Thor was a warrior, but Odin was the leader of Norse gods. And the actual mythological Raiden was demon that beat drums.

Meanwhile, while war is not constant, conflict is....BTW, in DC, Ares' power extends to conflict as well as war. And even so, unless I'm mistaken, there is always some state of battle going on in some country at any given time. I think it makes perfect sense for Zeus' power to wain, while those of Ares, Athena, and Aphrodite thrive. And I don't understand your logic that no matter how weak Zeus can get, he can still just "zap" Ares regardless of how strong he is. Again, Zeus retains his leadership power just because...he's the leader? BTW again, in DC, Athena's otherthrown Zeus and she is the leader of the gods now.

The problem here is...in defence of Sub-Zero_7th's story, my story, the DC universe, and any other story dealing with mythological deities...not everyone shares your view of gods' power and hierichy. And what's worth remembering here is that we are dealing with fictional mythology...therefore open to interpretation. Personally, I think the logic of the DC universe makes a lot of sense in regard to the "worship=power" thing....but I don't really get yours.



Going back to what I said about how Earth is depicted in Mortal Kombat....that's not Raiden. Or Fujin. In DC, it's not Zeus. Or really Athena. If there were real gods and their power/lives were dependent on how much people believed in them, they'd be dead now since in today's society, they're all regarded as fiction.



Natural development. As of now, Raiden is taking an any means necessary approach to defend Earth and has grown frustrated and intolerant of those who don't do enough to defend it. In my story, which takes place years after Armageddon, Raiden's been watching as Earth and other realms sink deeper and deeper into chaos and anarchy. While at first he blamed those who threatened Earth and those who didn't do enough to protect it, his anger grows to the Elder Gods as well, feeling it's their indifference that allowed the realms to get into this state. So he comes to believe, the only way to ensure true peace and safety is to, basically, start over. This was his ending I wrote explaining his thought process:
"Much of my existence was devoted solely to the protection of Earth. For millennia, I diligently watched over the realm...guiding it's defenders to fight the evils that would threaten her. I was even willing to sacrifice my very existence for Earth's protection. But I soon realized my sacrifices and work was for nothing. I tired of the mortals who insisted on bringing about their own destruction. I grew weary with these arrogant, meaningless lifeforms who only know how to destroy and abuse what they are given. In Armageddon, I sought to protect Earth by destroy all who would do her harm with extreme prejudice. This led to my battle with Shinnok that had nearly killed me. But I survived to see the devastation caused by the selfish actions of mortals. However, I came to a realization. The indifference of the Elder Gods was just as responsible, if not more responsible for what befell Earth. Why do the Elder Gods do nothing as evils like Shao Kahn and Onaga come within an eyelash of bringing an end to all that exists? No more. In the passing years, I've been gathering my strength and conducting my plans. I would show the Elder Gods how Reality should be ruled. Soon peace will reign, as Reality comes under the rule of the one Thunder God."



Maybe not now, but that doesn't mean it never will be. I developed Raiden's zeal to encompass all the realms.

One "n" in "canon" by the way.



When I said god of creation, I meant he can't just snap his fingers and make a mountain appear. He can't manifest an army from dust. He can't create life.



I say he does. God or not.



Well, in my story...and from the looks of it, Sub-Zero_7th's as well...zombie Liu is gone and Raiden's goals have extended beyond just that. His ideal of defending Earth from all evil by eradicating any who threaten the realm...which, due to their indifference, has come to include the Elder Gods....has grown to completely shaping Reality itself into how he believes it should be. Basically, we've developed Raiden's zeal further...making him, thus, an antagonist in our stories.

Another thing you have to consider guys is Raiden compared to other Gods. This would eb the second time in a short span that he has had his Physical body destroyed. What kind of toll would that leave on him? I also remeber reading somewhere that the gods couldnt use all their powers and god-like nature because they are in a mortal body, which is probably more heavily explined in Serraths story, since he is basically like them as a god-like entity in a physical form, their body's can be destroyed, but they can reform if they have the power.

You also have to consider HOW he beat Shinnok in the first place? Was it him by himself? Or a combination of all the gods which Raiden is heavily credited for? No one knows, its open to interpretation.

You also have to compare him to other Gods. At the moment, because of his 'power drain' for lack of a better term, he is weaker then Serrath, Fujin and Shinnok (although we have come up with the idea Shinnok weakens himself by creating a doppleganger, so who is powerfuller out of them two is questionable in this story). Even the Elder Gods, are you saying Raiden is on equal terms to them?

I have to disagree with the whole 'worship' idea of power for one other reason. the gods where around before humans, before any being, so if they where around back then and had power, why would they need worship to keep it? Its a nice idea, but not really plausable. Like Xao said, in this day and age, gods arnt openly worshipped as they where once before, so if that where the case, wouldnt he be just a shadow of his former self?

Just some thoughts from a guy up way past when he should be, lol!

It's a long one fellas.. wrote half yesterday but got busy before I could post. The other half just now.
~~~~~~~



Whah? You don't believe this games gods are Eastern hemispherical in their ideology? I mean, yea, they are based off of Western Mythology, but Mk uses them the way they want to. Which in turn is open to interpretation.

Since it's open to interpretation, it's reasonable to conceive that Eastern ideology motivates the god characters abilities and power scale, while at the same time, the Western influence would limit that ideology. That's what MK is man; "Eastern meets Western". And that was the point of my comment. That alone is a major reason why the Mythological individuals in Mk are not precisely correct. It's cuz it ain't supposed to be precise.

I didn't mean to imply that they were in the likes of Oracles when I said all seeing and all knowing. Looking into the future is somebody else's job(Delia, is the prime example). Which they'd have to be in order to see things coming, or while in action. At the same time though, there's a lot of technicalities to consider if we're going to go the route you just provoked. But I'll go if you really wanna...

Before I get into that though, you're challenging a choice Raiden can make to relinquish his celestial form, in order to abide by the rules of Mortal Kombat to compete. So in this instance, what you're challenging is circumstantial, and is essentially, a moot point.

Now, death of his mortal form has never meant death of Raiden as a god, or as a character that continues on. That is, within the realm of logical fantasy. So, his mortal form is the circumstantial element here. The technicality about his mortal form, is that Raiden's behavior is that of a conductor of electricity. And that certainly constitutes invincibility...even in a mortal form. Now for the sake of being able to play with him in the games, is the exception to the point here. So yea, moot.

Another Technicality, is that he is able to sustain an un-natural level of damage without the consequence of death. Same thing could be said for every character on the roster though...But again, that's technical. I can logically assume that he can with-stand more damage than a mortal character...cuz it's within the logical realm of his character description. "God", so I can safely assume that, and there shouldn't be any fuss about it.
---

I'll concede on the all knowing // all seeing thing...on the basis of the couple exceptions in the canon. There was MKD, MKA, and I'm pretty sure that there was a previous instance with Jonny Cage telling Raiden about something he didn't already know. Can't remember that for sure though.

However, traditionally, the gods of MK are the ones who are bringing the first informations to their respective forces. Which is technically, the contrary to your point..usually..technically.

Technicalities can get really ugly man, it's why I didn't take this conversation here myself. I only stick to the facts, the thread content, and then, my critique and or concept that I'm presenting.



1. Every modern society mortal since that's your point, most certainly to an in-cognitive degree.

2. *Heavy Nod*

Hell Yes it is sufficient. Have you ever had a fan? I have had a few due to my stage presence. I still do....Or, have you ever had someone who views you as their role model? Or even someone who depends on you as their leader about a way of living? I have, and still do.

It's extremely bolstering, and empowering that you are doing the right thing about something if people try to mimic, and or follow in your footsteps(Mortals < Gods). Especially if they ever actually let you know that-THAT's what their attempting to do....Extremely humbling, it is for a noble person to have a person or group of persons "idolize" you and or your beliefs. It absolutely does give you a sort of "SuperMan" confidence about yourself. All of this falls under the parameters of "worship", even though it doesn't have to be a god that they'd be worshiping. In history, people worship other people, and objects such as statues or priceless jewels. Henceforth, they are perceived as gods as well...in real life history.

Thing is, it depends on what you do with that empowerment, that is the key to the "superman complex". You could squander it on condescension and bigotry, or you can use that power and recognition to raise up more people in the similar light, and create foundations based on the common believes.

Which for this example, is a bit out of context, but is what Raiden, and the Shaolin Monks are about in MK....

============



That's a little too far down the ridiculous trail actually. You don't need alot of this kind of attention to do the trick, so no. I can easily see a small group(s) being the sole contributors to Raidens power in this instance. Ex?:

I am the eldest male in my family, father of three children, soon to be husband, and confidante for alot of my family, elders and siblings alike.
I am a big part in why some of my siblings and common age group are raised up the way they are today. I am their "example", so to speak...Same as Raiden would be for Mk's Order of Light and Shaolin Monks.
Anyway, nobody's doing "bad" that I have influenced. Technically. The ones that are "doing bad", I haven't as profound an influence on them, because they are more distant from my//our influences and believes. (don't even go there...No, I'm not trying to make myself seem like a "god" to other people around me. I've simply been told how well I did with them, and how much confidence they have in me. This is merely an example for my point.)

But as a result of their confidence in me, I am motivated to continue providing them a respectable example in myself. Where, if they stopped, I would as well.

Again, don't take it all out of context, I don't. So it doesn't effect my judgment or behavior in any kind of a dramatic fashion.



No, you missed the point. The point was that your idea (in your previous post) was flawed, because it is contrived of an old ideology that imposes itself on the future of the past. That future, is now our past. Which makes that ideology irrelevant to the modern day interpretations of a god like Zeus or Raiden. Zeus hasn't been modernized, you see, so how could you grade him now, based off of what people believed of him, back then? Doesn't work that way, it would be based on altered factors.

As you've stated, we know better than to believe that the sky has a man sitting in the clouds somewhere with a lightning bolt in his hand. However, this knowledge of electricity does not negate the fact that the element is still appreciated today.

An extreme on my behalf, would be to say that Zeus // Raiden would remain the lead, because an obscene amount of current, modern day societies, use electricity(24/7, 365 days a yr, all over the entire world). Which is more than that of those in conflictt(Ares), or those that are motivated one way or the other by love (Aphrodite), hate(Hades), or wisdom(Athena). And then, there's always been the weather...and some other natural charges of electricity. "The human heart".."static electricity"..ect ect

===============



Your first point in there is incorrect. I never said it grants Zeus anything, I haven't strayed from talking about Raiden, in Mortal Kombat. But for Zeus, I simply stated that people understand that a person who wields electricity as a weapon, is the most powerful, and is most commonly looked at, as the leader. Take a poll, aheh. Most people you talk to, are gonna hear the name Raiden, Zeus, and Thor, and refer to them as the leaders of their factions. Regardless of the facts in their respected ranking situations. People have a sense // fear about electricity man, I don't have to make that up.

Also now, as it stands, that makes my "extreme" point above, a relevant, and a provable contrary point. Everywhere there is electricity, there lies power for a God of Thunder and lightning. And justifies a believe in the power of a being that commands such power. Unorthodox, but "worship" through the dependency, and constant use of electricity.

----
So again, No. Even though we understand it as a consequence of an atmospheric imbalance of protons, electrons, and neutrons, that doesn't negate the fact that we recognize it as the most powerful, natural force on earth. It is the closest thing to the sun itself that we get on earth. And that dwarfs the others....that's not even a technicality.



I didn't say all of them. I said well known. As in well known "to be" the most powerful, which is the fact in the way people generally perceive them..so see my reply just above. And yea, I know all that already.



What's your point? Weather happens more constant than conflict between mortals...so does my extreme example above work in this case....
You're making the same point I did, just about Ares instead of Zeus. So, cool, I agree then. There is also a constant in "conflict" the same as there is a constant in "worship". Technically. Which one is the more powerful force though? Electricity is, especially considering "conflict" as far as the make-up of a lightning bolt. It is the most erratic, most conflicted entity to command.

As far as Zeus being the leader simply because he's the leader, No. He's the leader because he's their father, wields the most powerful element, and created the law they live by.

What sustains Raidens rites as the leader? Nothing is offered in the MK canon, which was my initial point to SZ7th....My idea was that it should be worship, because it would make the most sense, per, where he can have authority, and it has the potential to answer why he even has authority, anywhere. This could affect where SZ7th, and Paragon send Raiden in their story's known realms. They said OrderRealm, I said Chaos or even the Nether as an extreme choice Raiden might take. Cuz he wants to conceal his ambitions. I offered these up instead, because they are without the possibility of being found out...or even have him be looked for in those places since he's trying to keep his mission secret....

Which is what started this whole thing if you wanna look back between Sub-Zero7th's post and mine. Nothing technical there.

As for the last point you make there, you missed my point. I did not say regardless of how powerful Ares is, Zeus can just zap him and win a fight. The point is that Zeus is the stronger constant. In that example where Athena and Aphrodite tell on Ares, it constitutes worship, and was written to display a sequence of events. Technically, Zeus would be the end all be all because the other gods in that example, support him.

What also you said there in your last point, also plays into the point I was making in my earlier post. And it's that, just because gods are known to be all powerful and everything, it doesn't mean that there cannot be something found and exploited about them, that is contrary, and that could result in their defeat. My idea was that, you just have to find the loophole, and be of a caliber that you are capable to do something about the exploit. Therefor, you could make a god such as Raiden as powerful, and impossible as you want to....that would never negate also giving the character a Fatal Flaw.

Athena would be an acceptable caliber to topple Zeus, so I could see that logically at some point. It wouldn't have been an unreasonable concept to consider, years ago. "Someone that is closest to him, knows his flaws". DUH, that's not hard to conceive.

But I said that already. It's not impossible in mythology to topple a god....it's just extremely unlikely. Which is the way it should be since Raiden is a mythological God Character.

=======What do we know about Raidens flaws?======

So far, what we know is, that there is a small opportunity for someone to screw around with Raiden's make-up. It's just that first, you'd have to be able to best him in a fight, actually kill him, and or be able to withstand the wrath of Raidens sacrifice in some way. Then, once in an "Ether-realm", you'll have to know what you're doing with yours and his essences in order to adequately alter, or abolish Raiden from existence totally. Now, I think that in the canon instance, things were a coincidence in the fashion Raiden was tainted. Because neither Quan Chi or Shang Tsung have completely died before, as I understand. And therefor, they wouldn't have knowledge for what to do once in the ether with each others essences mixing together. It was an accident....but if recognized by someone powerful enough, could equal an "opportunity".

That is very clear to me.

========================================



I'm not on offense here...Look, I absolutely respect different interpretations of one thing. It's what's making this conversation//debate so fun for me. I also agree to a greater extent with the DC ideologies as pertaining to this content(truth be told, I had no idea that's what DC, in particular, did with those characters). AND no, I'm not, nor am I aiming at imposing MY view of Raiden on you guys. None of anything that I have written does that to people. The only exception in my known history that this perception happens for the person(s) on the other side of the agenda, is unless they have the WRONG essential idea of a thing, based on the facts. Or unless I don't have all the facts myself. Which is not the case...So, it's you.

Raidens my favorite character in the series...I am an image artist, and an enthusiast particularly, about his personality, and story elements. I have every picture, every bio, every ending, and opening fmv, readily available to me that concerns him.

Yea, I'll go ahead a be bias for a second and ask: Don't you think I can "draw" a better whole picture of Raiden, than you? Images or Story...(/bias)

I'm certainly not an ignorant, incompetent, raving lunatic about this character. I'm sitting here, reading your guys' ideals, verses what's going on with Raiden right now, IN the canon....and it doesn't match up to take him in the direction you guys are talking about...Regardless of the conditions you're posting up for your stories. Even though I am open minded and considerate of your interpretation of the same character. I truly am. The same attribute about me, allows me to consider dark or light Raiden paths in story.

While I'm here, I would certainly not imply that I could do a better job than you, with Kitana, or for SZ_7th, with Sub-Zero's character. Wouldn't make sense for me to argue that, even though I can write a good story too..

==

Specifically now, as far as open to interpretation, "Pom Poms", I'm all for it dude. But that's not what I'm challenging. I am challenging you guys' logic to the fact of where Raiden is in his story right now, and where you decided to take him in your stories. That's the fact to all this writing I'm doing, and it's legit of me to bring up if I see you are getting something wrong. Cuz you are...getting something wrong.



According to the orientation of their affiliates in Mortal Kombat, Yes it is them.



Natural? lol, From what I gather, based on what you just told me happens in your story, for the sake of developing Raidens "zeal":

1. It is a natural story development to disregard Zombie Liu Kang as a commanded ally of Raiden.? That is not a "natural progression" in Raidens story & the elements therein. Z.Liu just...disappears?

(Q)What did Raiden resurrect Liu Kangs' corpse for, if he never planed to use him for anything? -- if there are no consequences resulting from Raiden doing that? Read his MKA bio over again, he has a purpose for doing this...none of you have recognized it in your story paths for Raiden as far as I can tell so far.

2. It is a natural story development for Raiden to eventually pursue, and try to enforce HIS type of order on the Entire universe and Reality.? You seem to recognize how ambitious he is right now...but you haven't done anything with the goals he has set for himself IN the canon(consider that I haven't read your story XD84)

(Q)So, he goes from being intolerant of specific individuals who have violated EarthRealm, and motivated by that specific irritation of those specific individuals, to being a complete lunatic, and going off on everybody//thing? I recognize the thin line between intolerant and lunacy, but what? Nothing you've said constitutes the leap over that line.

He wants to get rid of Those Specific Individuals and Groups that are Specifically Responsible for the Specific foul ups to EarthRealm. It is not in a relative, relevant parameter of his disposition to want to "over throw" ANYTHING, let alone the Elder Gods and Reality......even if I'm looking at it from an unbiased perspective, and consider that it's years in the future.

You put the facts together the wrong way is what it essentially looks like. Especially about his taint situation & personality disorder. And as a result, you built on a faulty perception of the character.

See that? It's what's allowing me to respect that you will write a good story, regardless of the content in your stories being completely invalid the whole time.

It's not a possibility for him to go to war with his elders, or have "his version" of order, anywhere in the future, Cuz he doesn't have a problem with the order of things(the way things work) in Mks Reality.

BUT it IS within the context of his Duty to Earth...to finish the damn job he started......Go kill the bad guys, and lay back down the dead champs corpse once he's finished with the mission.

3. It is a natural story development for super dedicated, and loyal to the PEACE of a realm - Raiden, to eventually ascend on his superiors.?

(Q) If a child was sitting next to you, and decided to tap on your shoulder repeatedly until you became utterly irritated....you're telling me that you'd smack the kid, AND the parents of that child...AND then go smack the law that governs child abuse (just because they wouldn't step in and tell the parents to tell their kid to quit it)...AND THEN you're gonna go take over the whole world....AND THEN REALITY?!? What the hell?
Even if you had a completely conceded, and cynical personality, I'm sure that is no where near what you would do. In the end of it all, I'm more than sure you'd just scream at the SPECIFIC kid to get HIM to STOP IT. You would not aim at law enforcement(Police//Child Services = Elder Gods), not the world, and not reality. It is a simple thought process.."Make those people, right there, stop it".

"By Any Means Necessary" in this example, would place a reasonable possibility, that you'd actually hit the kid, or tie his hands down, or get in an altercation with the parents to make the kid.....cut it out!.. Hahaha!

=========================================



Cool idea man. It'd be even better if you explained how Raiden and Zombie Liu Kang failed in defeating some, or all of the threats....that he's after right now. Where's the segway? Did they kill any of the bad guys in the process? Where's Z. Liu Kang? How did Raiden's mission fail? And what brings Raiden to THAT particular point? To where is even capable to conceive that the Elder Gods are also responsible though inactivity?




According to what he's factually motivated by right now...YES, yes it does mean that he will never go in that type of direction. I keep saying this...

The most likely thing that he will do, is use Z. Liu Kang to help him kill off the known threats to earth....Until ALL of them are gone. After that, he may or may not keep the Zombie around...But he's not on path for "Reshaping reality". He's on path to have the Bosses and Clans exspunged.

After that "situation" is resolved...good or bad....have fun with it. But at least recognize the elements of his story right now. They will effect what you guys are trying to write. Think about it.

What if Raiden and Zombie Liu actually succeeded? What happens to Raiden personality disorder then?
What if they failed? How did they fail? This would likely be where you guys' stories would start.
What if they were succeeding, but got caught or stopped somehow? What then?
What if they were stopped before they had the opportunity to do anything, and Raiden got punished?

--

Note the correction, "canon" throughout.



I know what you meant. I decided to reply with something that I believe he logically could create, instead. Which was contrary to your point about him not being a god of creation. I see your point however.



Yes, he is too.

See?

I agree that he can't "snap his fingers" and have life manifest. No god I've ever known of can do that. So it's why I left that alone. But again, that's something that's technically subjective, based on the perception of the person looking at the characters actual abilities.

"Technically, if he does his job as protector...life on Earth will be allowed to manifest itself, reproduce it, and prosper." That would be my technical definition when I'm talking about Mk god Raiden. AND, since he's responsible for relative peace on Earth, I can attribute the creation of life to Raiden that way too. It is Western + Eastern ideology put together imo.

Technically Subjective based on my interpretation//perception of his abilities.



Are you just antagonizing me with that? *shrugs* I don't think you understood what my comment was pertaining to so I'll take the shot.

Now look here,

Raiden can traverse the realms freely right now, without "extra power"(or an artifact, or a relic, or a medallion). So what sense does it make to forge them together? He can go, where ever he wants to go....and be affective on at least 4 or the 6 realms that we have seen.

He can already "die" and come back, over and over, and over, and over without "extra power"(or an artifact, or a relic, or a medallion) So what sense does it make, for him to seek more power to do that? He can die as many times as it requires, for him to complete his mission.

He can already beat 95% of the roster without normal power...let alone regular power on his own realm...let-alone "extra power"(or an artifact, or a relic, or a medallion). In mortal form, or especially celestial form. The only exceptions to this are Onaga, and the other is dependent on whether he's on a realm that is "friendly" to his authority, rites, and constitution as a god or not.

THAT means, he's either great, or good on Edenia, OrderRealm and Earth. Then, He's either good, or worse on Outworld, ChaosRealm, or NetherRealm.....but he still has power on Outworld....it's just less to none. Hell, you seen the MkD FMV. He damn near won the fight regaurdless of his limitations of being on one of the wrong realms(Outworld, during that fight). He could still do everything he normally does on Earth, on that realm.

Raiden is a beast of a character man. The only available explanation is that, you're just not looking at him right....


What say you?


~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
=================Paragon=============
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~



That would almost catastrophically demean your position. Raidens the leader...comparing him to another god would only be to improve the look for Raiden.
Siting how many times his mortal form has been destroyed is irrelevant. First because it's only been 1 time in the canon. And then also, because it has never deteriorated his celestial form.

I'll get to Serraths story in bit here.



Exactly. I want you to experiment with THOSE parts of his story, in that fashion. Which is based on, and is an extension of the canon in the game. Go however far into the future you want to with it, but extend from his canon story. Otherwise, it's just and invalid read.

It's the type of thing I have been pointing at, this entire time.



I get your point (get back to the story, right?) So I'll have to wait and see. You guys have alot of characters here, and it is well written, so allow me to take my time perceiving them correctly..



That's not a clear fact. But we do know that the elders were around "before time".

Here's something from the story I've been writing about Raiden.
I went with, the gods of a realm come into existence with their respective planet. Or slightly after. So, the Gods explain their realms age and time clock, orbit, and all that funky stuff. Also, in the story I am writing, worship becomes a compliment to the gods of a realm as mortals begin to recognize that there actually are gods around. But until that is realized, gods thrive on the usage//necessity through usefulness of their particular element.

Water, Earth, Wind, Fire. All these things are necessary for a productive eco system. Raiden is the presiding god because he is a unique mixture of cosmic and spiritual essences, that the Elder Gods experimented with...and it just happened to work at the time, and produce Raiden right after EarthRealm was created.

It's how science//sorcery works so...in my story, when I get finished with it, it'll make sense.

______________


151

First off, I'm really glad to see this kind of discussion going on. I'm sorry for not responding to it sooner. There's a lot to cover, and I'm going to try and sort that out now.

To ThePreadator151:

About his power source, I'm not sure.




He is the Protector God of Earthrealm thus his authority in that realm. The authority was given by the Elder Gods.




Well, that's your opinion. We don't see him as a human with special powers. He's essentially immortal.




The amount of worship doesn't play a part in how much power Raiden can tap into or keep. If that's the case, then Raiden would be weak. About the usage of electricity as being some kind of worship, I don't know about that. What about giant windmills? Would that supply worship for Fujin?




It's not like we have Raiden casually walking in Orderrealm. He takes refuge in there but not in public. Considering that Fujin hasn't seen Raiden in a couple of years and that he knows Raiden had changed, why would he look for him? That would be looking for trouble, but again, Fujin doesn't know Raiden's whereabouts.




Yes. However, we want to step things up in Raiden's story, and that will be revealed in due time.

---------------

I kind of understand you point about the martial arts stuff, but there's something for me to address with this part.



When it comes to the source of Earthrealm martial arts, it has to do with the beginning of humankind, starting with primitive fighting methods that eventually evolve into more refined systems of combat. As for why Earth gets to defend themselves in Mortal Kombat, if you mean the tournament, that has to do with the Shaolin monks appealing to the Elder Gods so that the tournament can be established. If you're talking about Mortal Kombat in its very essence, refer to the beginning of MKDA's intro when Raiden says "Mortal Kombat has always been and will always be." Basically, he's talking about the nature of combat and the struggle between good and evil.




Well, I wanted to go for that Samurai influence. Maybe if we were to bring that costume back that we'd add some touches to the yoroi.



Perhaps, but how much of that worship goes to Raiden?



Raiden doesn't agree. If their system was perfectly fine, Onaga wouldn't have had the Kamidogu in his possession, forcing the Elder Gods to get a champion to stop him. Shujinko did fight Monster, the former Champion of the Elder Gods. Wouldn't the Elder Gods be able to see Shujinko getting the Kamidogu, and wouldn't Raiden have been informed by the Elder Gods that Shujinko is being mislead?



To spoil things a bit, not all of the artifacts in our story are meant for enhancing Raiden's power. As for the ones that are meant to enhance one's powers, this basically goes back to the view on Raiden's power itself. He's currently on the level of a lesser god, but what if the artifacts can enhance his powers to the level of an Elder God?

Also, I want to bring up his MKA story and ending. If Raiden was truly all-powerful (though subject to certain conditions), why would he want to obtain Blaze's power for himself? Like you said, he can die as many times as he wants. However, if someone with powers equal to or maybe even a bit above his were to obtain Blaze's power, he could he possibly defeat that person? Now although most of the MKA endings are crap, his ending states that his strength was enhanced beyond that of other gods and that he became a deity of unimaginable power. So with that said, he can get extra power from some other source.

-----------

To digress for a bit here, what did you think of the drawing that Paragon did of Elena?

Predator:

- No, the gods in Mortal Kombat aren't that powerful. Sub-Zero defeated four gods himself in Mythologies...so they are not invincible.

- I'm still not buying your logic on how people are worshipping Raiden in the MK universe....but the dependency on electrisity qualitfying as "worship" makes sense...so I'll grant that.

- In my story I did explain what happened to zombie Liu Kang. As well as the reasons for Raiden's downward spiral in overzealousness and madness...although I haven't revealled everything yet, the story is still ongoing.

Personally, I'm offended by your presumption that I would blissfully ignore explaining what happened to Liu Kang or any other character and that the direction I've taken Raiden was pulled from my ass with no regard to what's been established about him.

I'm also rather offended by your presumption that just because Raiden isn't my overall favorite character I would devote less attention to him than a character I did favor more.

Hey nice idea i stopped reading after page 5.

But so far so good, a few comments.

I'm not sure if this has already been bought up but.

Jun Fan and Jeet Kune do are the same thing. Jun Fan was Bruce Lees Cantoneese name. And sometimes JKD can be called Jun Fan Jeet Kune Do.

Because as you know Bruce didn't want it to be a style - but he had to name it so people would acknowledge its existance. Jun Fan Jeet Kune do is what he came up with.
I believe Jun Fan is actually a girls name, and i think it means "little dragon" or something similar. and Jeet Kune Do, is "Way of the Intercepting Fist"
So the two together.

Speaking of JKD and Bruce Lee, any chance of Liu Kang making a comeback in human form? As i said i stopped reading after page 6 afer i saw 15 pages :P.

Also if you guys need a temporary webspace for your plans i will quite happily set you up a fairly nice one on my domain.

To XiahouDun84: I don't think that Pred was trying to be offensive or anything. It'll probably work better if he got around to checking out your stories.

To Wu-TangStyle: It's good to see another member give a bit of feedback. I do hope you'll post again to give your thoughts on each character and all that. It would help us improve, and we'd appreciate it. I do hope that you'll continue reading to catch up.

To address your questions and all that...

I don't think Jun Fan and Jeet Kune Do are quite the same thing though some will probably say that Jun Fan was renamed Jeet Kune Do. However, Jun Fan still exists, and I consider it to be the martial side while it is complemented by Jeet Kune Do, the philosophical side. Jun Fan Jeet Kune Do was Bruce Lee's personal expression and interpretation of the martial arts.

Liu Kang isn't going to return, because we aren't too fond of him and felt that he was dragged on for too long. I don't find him to be a good protagonist due to him being poorly-developed. MKSM, although not considered by us to be canon, made his image even worse.

I don't think we're in need of a webspace for our plans, but thank you anyway. If that changes, I'll try to let you know.

Once again, thanks for posting. I look forward to more of your feedback.

Of course they play a major part in his authority over Earth, that's the obvious factor through chain of command. The problem with that blatantly obvious fact, is that Raiden's authority, or at least power, extends beyond Earth. In the Canon. I'm looking to have some insight into that fact, because it's a factor as to where you guys send him in your story. This is evident in MKD's Konquest mode. We see Raiden in Edenia, and in OrderRealm. As well as Fujin.

Do this for me will you? Compare Sub-Zero's power over cryomancy and authority over the Lin Kuei, to Raidens authority over Earth and his power over electricity.

Where does Sub-Zero's power and authority come from? Chances are, you'll be able to explain it all within the canon. For Raiden, it is not the case.

Experiment with the parts you can't explain with canon information, about Raiden.

The only thing about Sub Zero's power that is not yet explained...is where cryomancy began.



Fair enough.



Ahh haha...I need to clear this up, because you guys seem to be focusing on the wrong part of what I wrote for the point I was trying to make.

I said: "I see it like a meter, or gauge" .... Then it looks as though you guys took that specific part, like "there should be a meter or gauge for Raiden's power, dictating how powerful he can be, at any given time".

That's not the point, it's part of the set up of the point, to help you understand my thinking. The point is this, the rest of what I said:

Worship supplies Raiden a potentially unlimited source of power, immortality, super abilities..ect. It's alot like democracy...See there? But there's a condition attached to the unlimited source. Which is practical to the real life order of "God > Mortal".

"Potentially Unlimited" doesn't mean that his power fills up or depletes. It means that it has the potential to last forever. Which is as much as he ever needs to be who he is. The degree of his power should depend on where he is in the universe. "On what realm".
--
And as far as the Fujin thing, that example I gave was an extreme about technicalities. But sure, yea.. A windmill is something people are doing, because they recognize the power that wind can provide. Which would be a compliment to the god of wind. Since it is a recognition and appreciation of his power, it can fall under the constitution of worship..sure. Wind power is also a dependency for some societies, because it contributes to their way of life..."worship"

========



Why wouldn't he look for Raiden? Mind you, Raiden is supposed to be an Elder God right now, but he relinquished his status to get involved in Mortal Kombat. Certainly there are some questions Fujin has for Raiden(Are you okay?, What now Raiden? ect..). Certainly after those events transpired, certainly.

Especially considering you guys' stories, where Earth sustaines damage as a result of MKA. They certainly do need to have a talk, imo.



What's happening in you guys' stories is not stepping up, you are skipping over a huge determining chunk of what is existent in his story right now, for the sake of making him an aggravated, and overzealous character. You all are also, not taking into account the consequences that would happen as a result of his current actions(good or bad), in order to bring us to the point in story that you are trying to take him. That's what I've been able to gather right now, and I think you're story paths would change if you indeed did consider an actual, "natural story progression and development" here.

Like, if I wanted to eventually bring Raiden to be like you guys have described, this is what my "guideline" would mainly consist of:

::he'd have to have been loosing constantly, for the time you all are skipping over. Lost battles with clans, lost more arguments with the Elders..lost confidence from the forces of earth...ect
::He'd have to have lost Zombie Liu Kang... He's an instrument for Raiden right now..to loose him again, would just piss Raiden off.
::He'd have to have not completed his mission to rid the realms of the threats to Earth, mostly, or not at all...Means that someone Raiden was certain he could beat on his own, beat him instead.
::He'd also have to have been severely neglected by the Elder Gods. Like, maybe they don't like him anymore for relinquishing his status to help the mortals. "Cold shoulder" complex.
::He'd have to have the system that the Elders have in place...work totally against him the whole time that he was trying to do all this. Or at least technical issues with portions of his jurisdictions and authority tampered with, as to seem like they were changed in order to prevent him from doing what he wants to do.
::The Elders. AND the factions that appreciate Raiden, would have to be able to ignore his power and authority on Earth...in Edenia...and in OrderRealm. If they hated his choice to relinquish his status as Elder God, they wouldn't strip him of his rites as god...they'd simply, not help him with anything at all. No more advise, nothing.

He'd have to be reduced to essentially, a mortal with some special powers, in order to produce the mentality that you guys propose, imo. THEN, I could see him going against the Elders, their system, and Reality as it were. Like being shunned while still of technical God status, even though he'd still have access to the heavens and all the realms.

===



Yea, in real life it's evolutionary...But I'm talking about Raiden, in a fictional, fantasy driven game. At the same time though, it's possible to have evolution happen, as far as "fighting" is concerned, in Mortal Kombat, and still == It is absolutely possible for Raiden to have given humans a tool to adequately defend themselves....IN Mortal Kombat. Is that not like a mentor and protector to you?

Mortals could have evolved to a point, then Raiden gave them "martial arts", as an Art and Term. I could see that being "the beginning" of martial arts for man. It's often anyway, that "gods"(metaphorically) speak to a person, and tell them how to do something...correctly.

But yea, I agree with you anyway.



That's cool. Simple influence was all I meant. "A relaxed yori".



It's not a matter of "how much"(lateral), it a matter of whether it's fact or not(horizontal). As far as MK is concerned, it would be to the Shaolin and Order of light extent. And again, if I were to get technical about it, it would be subject to who appreciates his power. But I'm not trying to go there. In the book i'm writting, it/they would best work as a compliment to the fact that he's already a god.



WRONG. Raiden doesn't agree with the choice to stay out of mortal affairs, made specifically by the Elder Gods. The system itself works like they intended it to. According to what Raiden told us already..IN the canon.

As far as the exceptions you have there, I take them as they are....Exceptions. Beyond that exception...that "breach", it's there to make a good story happen. Something to fight about....There's nothing else they could have done to prevent what happened, from happening...because the system did what it was constructed for...all the way up to the very end.

It works like it's supposed to...perfectly fine.



What For? He doesn't need it. There's nothing there to constitute the need for more power, or for the intent of doing anything with extra...anything as far as his power.

And what constitutes a lessor god to you as far as Raiden is concerned? Less immortality? Less power over lightning? Less authority? On what grounds?



Good Question man, I can only hypothesize because there is nothing in the canon that offers a hint of an answer....so here's my take:

The only reason for Raiden trying to get Blazes power that I look at, is because he may want to prevent someone else from getting it. Which equals "Protection" for his realm in my book.....(hold on, keep reading)

For your second point there, about someone of the same relative caliber obtaining Blazes power, and if Raiden could beat them or not, here's what I think:

Take the fact that Raiden is one of the most powerful characters on the roster already. k?
Enter the fact that most anybody else is going to be "technically" weaker than Raiden on an even playing ground. Shang Tsung, Quan Chi ect...
Add to the fact that it is factually, geographically sensitive for Raiden, his power, and authority.

Now, who's left to consider, that could possibly be an equal or better for Raiden, on an equal playing ground?

Shao Kahn
Onaga
Shinnok

They're the only ones that are equal on an even playing ground with Raiden, or that have the possibility to supersede Raiden in power on a realm that is not Earth.

--Now, hold it right there. Put a mental book mark right there....

As we know it, Blaze was infused with the power to endow one of the two sons with Full God-hood. The Problem I see with that characters construction, is that the endowment power that Blaze posses, was granted by WHO? Delia? Argus? or the Elder Gods? And the second thing is, he was only endowed to give full god-hood.

----Now coming back to Raiden and characters that have the potential to supersede him, I would say that no-one who is of the caliber of an immortal...or that of a gods description already, truthfully would benefit. Especially those I listed above. Because if the elder gods granted Blaze with the power to endow anyone, with any power, they wouldn't want that power to resemble their's for anyone other than themselves....it would defeat the purpose of "Armageddon" as a concept, and would allow a breach in the structure they have in place. I can't see them making such a stupid mistake.

If it was Delia, and or Argus who gave Blaze the power to endow full god-hood, I don't see them having the power to allow the possibility of someone that is of their own caliber, to supersede their own. They would only be able to bring an individual "up to their level" so to speak(raise a son, more literally"). Not be able to allow someone that is practically the same as them, supersede them in power or authority. Because Delia is just a sorceress and an Oracle, and Argus is only a God character. And because, as far as the way I'm looking at it, defeating Blaze as a god character, would only offer them more of the same...like adding air to a cup of air. Nothing happens to the volume of air, or the cup.

I think MKA is a stalemate for the Gods and Immortals concerning them actually getting any "boost" from defeating Blaze themselves. Because I can't see the Elder Gods allowing the possibility of a threat to themselves, if the "wrong individual"(Shinnok, for example) defeated Blaze, and claimed any respectable power boost from the win.

So to answer your question out right.Yes, it is possible he could still beat those individuals. Because it would be of the exact same context it is now. Stalemate for bosses and gods.

If an evil mortal got the power boost, it would be like fighting Shao Kahn, Shinnok, or Onaga....depending on where they are in the MKuniverse, and what they knew about Raiden(If they knew how to beat him...cuz even previous Bosses, don't know what to do with Raiden outside of mortal kombat, and beating Raidens mortal form). If it was a good mortal who beat Blaze, and got the power, it would be like putting their name next to one of the Elemental Gods//Fujin..for Raiden. No impulse to fight Raiden in the first place. But, Immortals, are not affected by the "boost"...because it's just more of the same.
===

Now for instance, Raiden could probably beat Onaga on EarthRealm....but on OutWorld? No Wai d00d. Same for Shao Kahn, although I think Shao Kahn would have a tougher time with Raiden, even on OutWorld cuz he's a lessor boss to Onaga. But Shao Kahn should ultimately win a fight with Raiden on Outworld. Shinnok would get owned on 3 of the 6 current Realms, but specifically on the NetherRealm...Raiden would//should loose against Shinnok. Because Raiden would have no jurisdiction there, no one would recognize him as a god there, no one would care about him there.. = No Authority, Little to No Power at all there, Not a God at all in that Realm.

All this, considering that I think Raiden could still use all his powers anywhere in the MK universe....the affect would just be to much a null and void. Like on the NetherRealm, if Raiden shocked a denizen of that realm....it would probably just "tickle" them, or something stupid like that. Whereas on EarthRealm....well, you know the deal in that realm. It'd have a catastrophic affect on a persons body.

------
For your last point there about his MKA ending...I think it's complete bullshit. My supporting comments are above. There's no validity, no constitution, not even a realistic common sense about the character and his current motives that would make that make sense...so I disregard it. And I hope the MKTeam does too.

=====



Oh crap! How did I run right over that? It's a shame I did because I spent alot of time looking at the picture actually. aheh.

Yea, I think it's fantastic Paragon. It matches right up to what I had in my head after reading about Elena, exit little bits about the outfit. I was thinking something like those shirts women wear, with the elongated cuffs, that usually have...aahh crap, like this. But like, a softer material in the way it looks, and the sleeves' cuffs elongated...Like "elf-wear".

lol Anyway, I'd hope to see more. I still see a bit of "Harry Potter" in her design though...but that's not at all a bad thing. She has alot of Native American hues about her, as well as elf-like features about the composition of the head and ears. It's a good mixture that works out for how she is written.

============================
---------------
============================



I agree, I think that they were obviously of a lesser caliber god character than Raiden. It's why we haven't seen Sub-Zero beat Raiden for that matter. And in the case of Taven vs Raiden, I've already expressed my opinion on that fight.

To me, it just means that their "loophole", their "Flaw" was more obvious an exploit, and that Sub-Zero was of a caliber to do something about their weakness. As I remember, Shinnok (or was it Quan Chi?) couldn't, or wouldn't enter that temple because of specific reasons. So it makes sense that he could defeat those gods man.

And again, I haven't deviated from talking about Raiden...you did that. You provoked the technicalities, you brought Greek mythology into the conversation. I didn't do that. I just used what you gave me, and worked with it to make my points. That's all.



That's good by me. Just makes it a valid point to make from where I stand.

::Thank you, but again, that was an extreme example based on what you gave me to work with at the time.



That's all cool too, but like I tried to explain, I haven't read your story, and you also did not give up that information in this thread so far...so I couldn't consider it in the replies I've made so far.




Whoa, whoa, wait a second, I am actually really sorry to hear you feel that way about this conversation. Less than that, I'm surprised that you could take offense...because it's not my fault that you're offended.

Look at your posts....You gave me specifics about your story to prove your points....but you said nothing about anything else besides your specific direction with Raiden and Greek Mythology in your posts(and you defended you guys' stories, which I was completely cool with too. The whole 2:1 ratio made it even more interesting to me...*shrugs*) . So what was I supposed to consider besides what you gave me to consider?

No, no actually, I insist that you not to be offended with these things being the case....cuz there was no way for me to know any better about what you are doing with your story, using this thread as the source for information about Raiden, in your story. You would have to agree that of what you did expose me to about your story, it most definatley did allow me a limited perception of what you're doing, in a whole other different story thread(the one dedicated to yours) concerning Raiden. Especially because I asked you to consider that I haven't read through your story multiple times, in a few different ways. Did you consider? Because if you did consider that FACT, there's a considerably limited opportunity for you to take offense to anything I said.

I didn't call you out of your name, I didn't say your story is stupid or anything of the sort....the only opportunities you'd have to take offense, is if you didn't consider my reasonable ignorance for your stories details, and took offense to my implication that you in fact did skip over the relevance of Liu Kang...in this thread. You never told me about anything you are doing with Liu Kang until right now...so how can you be offended about my presumptions? You got in the conversation, but you didn't supply me with all of the relevant facts//factors. *throws hands up* Wth was I supposed to do? Go read your whole story, while I'm trying to catch up reading and giving constructive crit in here too? What the hell man?

Look, nothing I've written is with the intent to offend you, Paragon, or Sub_Zero7th. It is written to discuss, and or debate the difference in a story paths, concept. Which is what I'm still under the presumption that we're still doing here. Also, SZ_7th asked me if I'd like to come in here, and give up some constructive opinions and critiques....I said "sure", so that's what I did, and that's what I'm still doing. I don't have to be a "soft" critic if I don't want to, especially about Raiden. But I thought I was...so, for that reason alone, i'm sorry you perceive otherwise. There's a considerably different degree in when I harshly criticize something...but this ain't one of those cases.

------



Hey well, that's a natural behavioral trait in humans bro. When you like something, you pay more attention to it than another thing(whatever the degree). People are more sensitive to those types of things. It's simple psychology.

So while I'm not challenging that you DO pay extreme attention to Raiden when you write about him, (I've seen your work, I know you're not going to "neglect" any character that you're writing about...At least, not on purpose), I am of an adequate caliber to say something relevant about your exploits, your "loopholes", or your "weaknesses". Especially when we're talking about Raiden. Means that, if you leave me one hole, if you do not at least touch on everything, if you do not give me all the facts of the matter....I will expose them as such about you, your story, your art, and anything else. Especially if I know better, based on FACTS. That's criticism...that's what I'm supposed to do man.

So, I don't presume you've paid less attention to Raiden. I sir, am siting a mistake you have made, based on the facts of Raidens canon story, vs the basis of your perception and subsequent story path for him. But only in this thread.

More clear now, I'm challenging what you were paying attention to, when you considered writing such a story path for Raiden, not that you may or may not pay enough attention to the story elements concerning him. In this thread.

idk what else to say about that man...

Sorry I didn't get to responding sooner. After gathering my thoughts again, here it is:



He isn't looking for Raiden, because he has been focusing on his duties in Earthrealm trying to guard it and such. For them to interact would have to come later if and when Fujin and Raiden cross paths. But for right now, Fujin's task is to look for more warriors to join the Forces of Light. Also, since you've read Serrath's story (if I'm not mistaken...), you know that Serrath is trying to search for Raiden along with some other things.



But he already is aggravated and overzealous, isn't he?



Why does he need to go around fighting clans and having more arguments with the Elder Gods? For him to take such activity would defeat the point of him staying in hiding, trying to regain his strength. As for losing confidence in the Forces of Light, I suggest reading his MKD and MKA bios again.



Zombie Liu Kang is gone as mentioned in the Armageddon outcomes. Perhaps we should have mentioned it in Raiden's bio, but we figured that Liu Kang's outcome did the job already.



His mission is far from complete. He still has obstacles in his way.



Raiden is basically a rogue deity now. He's a bit of a loose cannon to them since he has disobeyed their orders in the past.



That depends on how you want to look at it and what you mean more specifically.



They don't help him with anything. It would have been interesting if they added a dynamic in which the Elder Gods stripped Raiden of his god-hood when deciding to descend to the realms. That could have enhanced his story a bit.



Even in a fantasy-driven game like MK, there are elements of realism in the sense that they put in some factual things (e.g. mentioning Wang Lang as the founder of Northern Praying Mantis). Also, you'd still have the issue with the likes of Bo' Rai Cho creating Drunken Fist and it being his personalized fighting art.



Ok.



I don't see how, but I guess we'll have to agree to disagree on this one. *shrugs*



Please correct me if I'm wrong on this, but it seems to me that you're saying Raiden is confined to a certain power level and can't go higher than that. As for him being a lesser god, well, he's not an Elder God anymore, is he? If he's not an Elder God, he's a lesser god. It has nothing to do with having "less immortality" or "less power over lightning" but rather less power than the Elder Gods and not being restricted to staying in the Heavens.



Well, the quest had been corrupted as well as Blaze's design, so unfortunately for the Elder Gods, a mistake such as that could happen.



This basically goes back to the power limit issue.



The Elder Gods allowed Shujinko to waste decades of his life on a quest that involved the near destruction of reality, didn't they? Luckily for them, Scorpion just happened to cross paths with them, but even there, he didn't do his job the way they wanted him to. There's also the issue of the Elder Gods allowing Shao Kahn to invade Earthrealm when he broke the rules and wasn't even punished by them for it. If he was successful in taking over Earthrealm and maybe even other realms, he could have gained enough power to take down the Elder Gods or to at least move steps forward in reconstructing the One Being's shattered consciousness.



According to the little we actually know about Shao Kahn, his strength is said to rival that of a god's. If Onaga is as strong as or even stronger than Shao Kahn, that would make him a bit of a challenge to Raiden, wouldn't it?



I disagree with this, because you're making it sound as if his power is solely dependent on recognition and appreciation. If that's the basis for the power source of a god, what was Fujin's power source before his appointment as the Protector God of Earthrealm?



I'm glad you like the look. The shirt idea you have isn't bad at all. I don't know about the whole elf stuff. I think the idea was to go for kind of an amazonian warrior type feel, but that's more so for her alternate costume.

Hmm...I think I missed something..bah! Here you go..



That's pretty fair. So yea, I can agree with that. I could see Fujin being too busy to invest an over abundance of time into finding Raiden. Although, when the opportunity arises, I don't think it should be a passive interaction. I could even see them fighting about Fujins possible line of questioning.

No, I haven't read anything further than the first pages' content. Haven't had the chance to dedicate the time.



Ahehm..I'm sorry, yes, that is right. Although he is not so, to the extent that he would NEED to be, in order do the things you guys are proposing. It is much more specific, and pointed in its obviousness and degree. He is NOT out of control...therefor he is not, within the spectrum of control, capable to aim at anyone and or anything...even in the near future.

"For the Sake of making" // A.k.a. For the sake of forcing the issue that is already evident, you are making it seem like he's a "super" aggravated "enormous" overzealous lunatic. Enough to "Eventually" go to war with realities system and the decisions and very presence of the Elder Gods. WRONG path to play..

Your current path is not at all the case according to the facts. According to the facts, he is very methodical, has a very specific aggravation, and dedication to a specific job he is trying to perform.



You mean; Why would he need to?

I am saying that these things would have to transpire, IF I wanted to make his story "develop" like you guys are trying to have it develop. I am also saying, that if you guys are actually considering what is factually going on in his cannon story right now, that it would take a sequence of dramatic incidences LIKE these, in order to make him do the things that you guys are trying to make him do in your story. Which would be WRONG, if you are actually considering what's going on in the canon...doesn't seem to be the case. It seems like "you want it to be that way, so you're forcing it".

There isn't "only one way" to make what you guys propose happen, I'm simply saying that the way you all are going about it, is one of the wrong-est, although well written ways to do it.



Show it to me. I want to see where it becomes evident that Z. Liu Kang is just...*poof*

Now, if you are considering his MKA ending...that's a possibility to *poof* Z.Liu. But then the conflict in this case would be absolute with the path you have Raiden on. It will not play if you're considering Z Liu Kangs MkA ending.



Yes, I know...That's what I'm saying, and asking you guys to be considerate of in the path you are taking Raiden and Z.Liu Kang.

So far, the only person he's been able to confront with real consequence has been Shujinko. See, if I allow you guys' story path to play in my head, Raiden would have to abandon his current mission...to look for more power....then come back to it for a game or two to complete it....then go fight with the Elder Gods for control of the system current MK reality relies on. OR, skip getting rid of the threats to earth, and go straight to battle with the Elder Gods for control over reality once he has this extra power in possession....???



That is WRONG. He is not a "rogue deity" right now, nor has he disobeyed anyones "orders", nor has he broken any rules according to the canon. Because so far, none exist in MK for gods. No identifiable "rules" have been violated by Raiden at this point. The only thing he has factually done, is disagreed with the Elder Gods a time or two.

Rules and all that, was my idea. God Code and Deity Law all came from me man...



Oh No it does not. How else to you get aggrivated with an authoritive figure in real life? It doesn't depend on anything but the mission you are trying to complete.

ex1: Trying to get a car but you're too young and nobody will co-sign for you = you get aggravated with the system that's in place, and then you get aggravated with your parents for not doing anything about the obstacle in your way... They, themselves then become an obstacle, and you try to find other ways to get a car. "You don't have the POWER to do anything else about your situation, so you TAKE the POWER away from them...and the system". It plays right into the way you want to take Raiden.

ex2: Too young to buy that mature rated game or movie? What do you do first? Ask the guardian, and if they tell you "No", what next? You get somebody else to get it for you. Again, you TAKE the POWER away from the system, and the obstacles in your way to get what you want done.

ex3: Can't make the money you want for the things you want? A "corrupted" person's first impulse, is to steal it. Taking the power away from any system, and any authority firgure, in order to get the job done that they need done.



Speculation on both our parts. Good idea though.



Point to the Praying Mantis thing for me...

And Nope, still no issue with Bo Rai Cho creating Drunken Fist either. Because he's not from Earth. Therefor, in my idea, Raiden wouldn't have been able to give him anything as a mortal beginning in martial arts. Bo Rai Cho would have learned how to fight on Outworld first. Before ever coming into contact with Raiden, or the elder Kung Lao.



I'm cool with that, but I'm gonna give some examples anyway...

ex1: If the battery in your car dies, is the whole car junk? = circumstantial. The system that makes the car work, is still good. Plug the hole, go get a battery, and the system itself still works perfectly as it should.

ex2: If your CD burner, or mouse, or keyboard, or monitor, OR even the motherboard for your computer dies...is the whole computer junk? NO, you just Plug the hole, go get another one, and the system will allow it to do what it was designed to do. Couldn't say much for the things you had on your hard drive in the case of the motherboard, but the systematics allow the computer to work as perfectly as it should.

ex3: If the Master of a martial arts dies, does the teaching and training of that martial art cease? Nope...the system surrounding pupils of his will allow the teaching and training of that skill to keep going. Even if it is not exactly as he would have it taught..it still keeps working.

Just because there was an occurrence in the system the Elder Gods have in place, doesn't mean the system doesn't work as it should. Now, all they'd have to do is "Plug the hole".



He would be if there were rules to define his limit. But there are none offered in the canon. SoOo, in my idea, he would be subject to a few things:
1. Jurisdiction: Geographically sensitive = Where he is in the MK universe. He would be confined to certain areas based on were he would logically want to go, and still have effective power, and god-hood.
2. Followers: The belief in the fact that he is a God in the MK universe. People are substantial to him to last for an eternity, but in my idea, they are more or less a simple compliment to the fact.
3. Deity Law: He can't abuse his power over electricity. Manipulate or tell about the system the Elders have in place...Can't go directly to the elder gods all the time...ect
4. God Moral Code: He can't whore himself out for more followers all over the universe. He can't violate corpses and play games with the bad guys...ect

As far as the "lessor God" thing, there's not even any definition between "lessor God" and Elder God....SoOo, in my idea, Elders don't have a use for the attention of mortals at all. They draw strength and power from limitless entities like the sun, or the galaxies themselves. OR, I also had an idea that worked like a pyramid scheme, where they reap the biggest benefits of their creations. Gods, lessor gods, mortals..ect Pure "Cosmic & Celestial Power, "Life & Death" itself gives them power. Thus, in MY ideas, establish a difference between them, and any subsequent gods, and their subsequent gods, and their mortals.

But that's all MY idea about the way things are set up, based on your reply to MY idea.



Purely Circumstantial, and Speculative. "I say it's this way, you'll say it's that way".

I'd say, they wouldn't allow the potential for a mistake like that in one, free roaming being. Regardless of any kind of corruption that is possible to happen..what say you?..

Blazes design is a big question mark so, now I digress on that, and note that still, that hypothesis was based on factors of an idea I had. I even said it ("I would say")before I typed the part you quoted.



They won't interfere with a mortals choice unless it effects them or their interest directly...I can understand that. So while I disagree that "they let" him waste alot of his life, i just think that they didn't catch on to it as fast as they should have. Shujinko was off the radar because someone knew of a hole in their system. Onaga//Damashi then employed Jinko the same way a Trojan Horse virus employs itself on a computer. I believe the Elder Gods were looking for a descrete, but adequate defense mechanism for the likes of Shujinko at the time, and yea, a coincidence happened so that they could defend themselves without getting involved in any action first hand.

Far as Shao Kahn, i think his punishment was metaphorical. Meaning that he was punished with ultimatly being defeated regardless of his treatry and schemes.



Geographically sensitive.

Not one of them can be anywhere in the MK universe, and be "All powerful". So yea, sure, I agree. I also said that before too though, that if Raiden fought Onaga on Outworld, he'd most definatley loose the fight...on that realm though. I'm certain he'd put up a good fight on earth, but Onaga would get owned on Earth by Raiden.

Umm..there's something not being mentioned here. In one of Raidens bios......yea, in Raidens MKD bio, Raiden states that Onagas "powers seemed augmented by a force previously exibited only by the Elder Gods"

So that could have been an attribute that contributed to why Onaga wasn't killed by Raidens sacrifice on outworld with Shang and Quan Chi. Just saying I have no doubt Raiden would beat the crap out of Onaga on Earth, and especially if they were just using what they are normally endowed with as far as powers.

But, I don't know if Onagas augmentation has changed since then with him getting caught, killed again, and strickened to the NetherRealm after all that.That's all up in the air as far as I understand right now.



No, it is geographically sensitive. Waay more than anything else. The other things I mentioned are supporting explanations for "why" it matters where he is. The fact of the matter comes first, my idea comes afterwards.

You are siting only my supporting ideas as the point I'm making....That may be my fault, so, I'll try to separate the fact from my ideas an opinions more obviously for you.
Sorry about that.

====

Umm...didn't edit much...finishing up some image stuff, then I'll get to the 2nd page.

Sorry, but I don't get the point of this discussion: I always thought that, where you assume that there are many gods, none of them is all powerful. So it's perfectly reasonable for Raiden, or any other fictional god, to look for more power.

Sorry I didn't get to this sooner, but here goes:



Actually, I realized that when you do get around to reading Fujin's bio, it does cover some stuff with Raiden. My bad.



I wouldn't say we're trying to make him a lunatic. Yes, he's being very methodical, but he's still a radical, especially since he has the ruthlessness of Shao Kahn as can be attested by Fujin's MKA bio.



We are taking his story into consideration. I agree with you saying that there isn't only one way to go about continuing his story. But my point stands that him having arguments with the Elder Gods and trying to fight certain clans defeats the purpose of him being in hiding. And if he were to go up and argue with the Elder Gods, they could simply strip him of his godhood, something he would not want to risk.



I don't see why we'd consider Liu Kang's MKA ending. I HATE Liu Kang's MKA ending, because it completely ignores Fujin. Why we have Liu Kang gone is mentioned in the Armageddon outcomes that we posted after posting all of the unlockable character bios.



We aren't taking any further path with Liu Kang. He's not coming back in our story. We don't know what interaction Raiden had with Shujinko after Onaga's return. Since Earth is currently not in direct danger, Raiden is focusing on acquiring the artifacts for his goal, which will be further explained later. There are other things in Raiden's story that we haven't mentioned yet.



How is it "WRONG" that he's a "rogue deity"? If he isn't rogue, than what kind of god is he then?



Sure. It's around the beginning of Kung Lao's Konquest mode where it states the following:

Mantis was developed in 1600 by Wang Lang in the Ming Dynasty in Northern China. Wang Lang based this martial art on observations he made of a preying mantis fighting a cicada.

Good point about Bo' Rai Cho though.



So then he's not confined to a certain power level and therefore, he can obtain more power.



1. Sounds about right, I guess...
2. I'm personally not too fond of this concept.
3. Not sure about this one...
4. I guess that sounds right.



That might be fine and dandy if you were to do your own story, but when it comes to MK, those ideas don't work. The Elder Gods existed before the creation of the realms, so if they were to draw power from the sun, galaxies, etc., which are part of the universe, that begs the question as to how they were sustained when the realms didn't exist yet. As for the pyramid scheme, it's more or less the same thing. They'd basically be drawing power from things that come from Reality.



I say that's wrong. It's not purely speculative that the quest had been corrupted. Please refer to MKA's Konquest where Blaze himself says that the quest had been corrupted. And about Blaze's corruption in his physical design, that's also backed up by something Blaze said, namely in his MKA bio, which starts off with this:

My initial quest was interrupted when I was forced to guard a dragon egg for many years. When I awoke from enslavement, I felt altered in some way. Though I understood the reason I was created, I sensed that something was fundamentally wrong.

His ending states that the spell used to control him had corrupted his original design. So if we take these factors into account, then yes, the quest and Blaze's design were corrupted.



Shujinko was going around, collecting very powerful tools that were meant to stay hidden. By having him obtain these, it can put the realms' existence in danger, and thus, it would then involve the Elder Gods. Monster, a former champion of the Elder Gods, fought Shujinko. Raiden knew about Shujinko's quest to collect the Kamidogu.



That's basically saying that the Elder Gods assumed that Shao Kahn would lose.



The reason why Onaga's powers matched those of the Elder Gods is because he had the Kamidogu in his possession. But even without the Kamidogu, Onaga should still be pretty powerful. Again, this goes back to what I was saying in which Shao Kahn's power is said to rival that of a god's. So if that's true, then what does that say about Onaga, who is supposedly more powerful than Shao Kahn?



Ok...

Well, anyway, I hope you have read more of MK: Resurrection. I'd like to see your feedback on the other bios and stuff.

To Warlady: Hey there. Have you read the fanfic? If so, what are your thoughts?

Ermac

I dig what you did with Ermac overall. However, I don't like him being tied in with Li Mei..Maybe that's just bias towards Li Mei talking...but, that's what I feel.

Also, what's the "presence" about? It seems as though once "they" discover that there is another tournament, they disregard the presence.

Or, is the tournament itself the presence?

Li Mei

I don't like her character....I don't like what she's about...I just don't like her at all. So, no real comment here

Nitara

Wow, you made her a good character? I thought she was just kinda there...You know, neutral or whatever?
=-=-=-=-=-=-=
1.) For her moves, I don't mind the blood spit, but I think there could be something else more interesting there. As a matter of fiction, Vampires really don't have a problem with distance...so I'd say get rid of that altogether, and give you traditional mythological moves. Like:

A Super speed move: Site Interview with a Vampire, when Brad Pitt turns on the light switch in the room with the reporter. Would look something like Kenshi's teleport move except maybe a walking, or stepping start animation instead of the way Kenshi grabs his head.

The assault could be a quick swipe at the opponent, that would equal the same amount of damage as a normal projectile. If successful, you'd see a flash of her while she swipes the opponent, then nothing, until the motion is finished, and the assault is complete.

2.) Hyptno Stun: Traditionally, Vampires are persuasive over other beings, humans, animals ect...

If you wanna give her a projectile, why not just a dramatic stun move?

3.) I don't like the Dagger thing, she mind as well use her nails...or maybe even her fist like that Vampire in Underworld...where the really old Vampire punches the flesh off of that other guys face...Much more brutal too I think

4.) I don't like the Unicorn Kick thing either. How about just having her kick them in the throat violently or something? Letting the blood pour out, and maybe she takes a quick drink? idk.

---
I like both the throws alot-

Love the bio all the way through and through. One thing that has not been adequately done in the series is "election" and established governments for a purpose.

I also liked how you went ahead and made it official that Khameleon is Reptiles "Queen". Needed that. But where's Chameleon then? Certainly he doesn't need a whole spot by himself...right?

Sareena

Mmm...her bio is iffy. On the one hand, I do appreciate her being over come by Quan Chi. She is no match for him, and if she were, she would be using stuff that he taught her in order to get back at him. Sneaking around him..maybe she would have merely helped discombobulate him while he was fighting someone else. She would not get close to him though, because I think she would still have a healthy fear for him. Saying that because she hasn't seen him in a while right? People don't escape jail, and then when a riot starts, run right up to an officer to hit them...they throw stuff at them and re-gain confidence that way before attempting a full on assault.

But on the other hand, too much occurred during the battle without adequate explanation of what was going on. The way it read was as if she was running around a little rampid, taking shots at different individuals. The progression of events in her bio happened to swiftly within the way it was written. Mainly.

So, I really don't disagree with the content...just how it was written. Seemed like a rush job.

=====================================
---------------------
=====================================

Now this thing....



In contrast to the facts we have available to us, yes you are. That's exactly the case man. He'd have to be insane to do what you guys propose. Which, as we both recognize, he's not.

Radical, warrants the source of a thing.

Ruthless, neglects compassion or pity.

So, if I put those two facts together: Raiden is looking to oust the source of his specific problem, without a compassion or pitty for the consequences of his actions.

There's nothing else to it.



I don't see any consideration for what's happening in his story, besides the fact that he's been altered from a former, less radical, non-ruthless state. As you've mentioned, Liu Kang is not something you guys are interested in involving in your story. You are also, sending him on a mission that is indicative of lunacy...which, as far as anything else goes, is a direct neglect to consider the actual individuals and events that are taking place.

Without being a lunatic, extreme situations, trials and tribulations would have to transpire in order to bring him to the path that you guys are trying to imply he's on naturally. Which is wrong...it's not the case. Cuz he's not on any relative path to do anything, except, go oust the bad guys, and use Z.Liu Kang as an instrument to do so.



I still want you to show me where it becomes evident that Z.Liu Kang is no longer a factor in what Raiden is doing. Did sombody demolish the corpes, or what? Show it to me since you're not going to consider him. That, or at least explain why he's gone in the story you're writing.

Z. Liu Kang is commanded by Raiden right now...he's not an obsolete factor.



Raiden killed Shujinko. Boon confirmed this canon at Fight Night last year. Jinko's dead, according to the canon, and regardless of him being in MKA.



Radical & Ruthless



I agreed a long time ago with him being able to make his power more vast // "get more power". I just did it in a way that challenged the concept, and the sense it made for him to get it through a search of "artifacts" and so on.

However, the problem with the concept itself is that's what Raiden is in the first place..."Vast Power", so I also challenged the sense it makes, and the necessity for him to
"Get more power" in the first place.

Cuz like I said before, he's already powerful enough to kill individuals on realms where he isn't supposed to maintain much power at all. He can already do the job he set out to do with the power that he already has. So it doesn't make sense to look for more power, being that he's:

a.) Got the power he needs right now
b.) has an adequate envorcer under his comand
c.) Is radical and ruthless

If we put that together correctly?, we can pretty much predict what he's gonna do...

a.)Abuse his power: Which he's already done imo, with reanimating Liu Kangs corpse
b.)Use the abomonation: Z. Liu Kang
c.) Go straight to the root of the problem, while abuseing his power contiuosly: Go get rid of the "bad guys", even if it means negotiating and shit with them.

NOT go on some wierd side quest to get an artifact to eventually take over reality. His current canon mission, is far to direct for that to happen, unless you turn him into a lunatic or something///THEN it's plausable.



Okay then....

1. Cool
2. O-kaay...
3. Adequate fear is enough as far as thunder & lightning is concerned. And how many persons do you tell about your finances? Just saying, it makes sense to be there as a "rule" not to tell anybody about their system. Also, a side note: Even in MK4's fmv's, and the non-canon movie MKA, it is recognized that he doesn't just get to walk right up to the Elder Gods and talk to them. I look at it as a defense mechanism.
4. How can this one be right without #2 being right?



Orly? Then how would you explain the heiarchy that is evidently present? How would you make the distinction between the Elders, gods, and subsequent gods?



Yes, yes it does, doesn't it....?



Yes, yes they would, wouldn't they....?

=-=

All I'll say about my idea right now, is that beings of life draw stregnth and continue life, from other entities of life. I explain the heiarchy.




Yes, himself, and the contest were corrupted. But that wasn't the point at all.

The point was trying to distiguish who exactly created, and gave him the power to endow one of the brothers with god-hood. What you're implying is absolution. Andif I toy with that absolution, the individual who beat Blaze in the canon(Taven), should have been endowed with Elder God-hood, instead of what he should've gotten, but didn't. Full God-hood, simply because Blaze was corrupted.

You're pressing the wrong issue to begin with. And then, you're doing so without precision or merit essentially.

See, what's speculative about it, is assuming the possibility that once corrupted, Blaze could endow an immortal character with "more power". Which would actually be "unfortunate for the Elder Gods". As you said.

But I said, they're not that stupid. See, IF they were the ones that created Blaze, and gave him the power of endowment upon defeat, I don't believe they're stupid enough to allow the possibility that Elder God-hood could be granted as a result of a violation to his make-up. They wouldn't put that much in to a free roaming being. Considering that they don't interfer with lesser beings, and the choice of all who Blaze could come in contact with.

Ex: Automotive techs don't hide a neuclar rocket launcher in the make up of a car, and expect nobody to exploit it. It'd be contrary to the fact of hiding it considering people modify//alter vehicles all over the world eveyday.

So again, I say it's this way, you say it's that way...w/e



Why'd you state the obvious?

The Elders didn't get involved first hand or physically, especially considering the "coinsedence" you mentioned. They didn't confront the problem directly, so I don't get why you typed that.



I don't look at it like that. I look at it like, "they let the inevitable transpire". You can only win so much as a bad guy before somebody stops you.




Oh, yea, I forgot about him having those...

But I think it says what I've been talking about alot throughout this conversation. And that is: You can make a character as powerful as you want to, but it does not negate giving them a flaw. Shao Kahn then was of a calibur to do something about that flaw and take Onaga down at some point.

Since we don't have a clear definition of a gods power in MK, I'm not gonna go there...

Scorpion

Yea, I think he's right on point for what you guys have been talking in the past. Traditionally, I don't really have an interest for Scorpion. Never have. So as long as things make sense generally. I'm with it.

I think we all agree that he should've gotten "revenge" a long time ago. I'm glad you made him finish the mission he started finally. Let's hope Raiden gets the same type of treatment...Except for, I think he(Scorpion) actually might have a good reason to go against the elder gods..as indicated(*low blow // inside joke*)

lol alright.

Sub-Zero

For his moves, was there a limit to the moves you wanted to give everybody? It's perfectly fine really. I'm just remembering his old stuff, and wondering why some of those weren't included. His slide, the ice shower...Also, why no experimentation with them? He's a GrandMaster right? What about making some of his old fatalities, special moves? Like the Ice breathe? His ice ball fatality....Those could be a specials..

I almost expect his arena to be the training area like you have it...or the Lin Kuei throne room. Maybe even that catacomb room with the heritage in it...it's good like it is though. That's just my take on it.

Bio looks all good except, the way I'm starting to perceive him because of that bio, is like a police officer. Sounds like he's growing out of the "I'm an independent warrior" attitude and role to me. I understand it, so there's nothing really "wrong" with it. I like how he handled Frost and the outcome of the blast was a great twist to add. I'd like to see the consequences of that occurrence more though. Maybe right after he gets the message from Kenshi about the new tournament..."an accident" happens.

Could be a good or bad accident where, he is able to realize more of what the blast did to him. Making him younger was a nice touch though. Since he's a Grandmaster now, I expect something big....or something small that turns into something big. Like his ice blasts has a bigger radius or distance. Maybe he's able to become completely frozen in animation like Iceman...something like that to symbolize his mastery, besides just the youth thing.

Good job on Sub-Zero. It reads all good except for the police thing.

More later...

Glad to see more feedback. Here are my responses:

Ermac

I'm glad you like the stuff we did for Ermac overall. As for tying him to Li Mei, well, I see both of them being involved in the Outworld side of the story. However, Li Mei will be more central to that plot than Ermac. As for the "presence", I'll let you figure that out for yourself.

Li Mei

Yeah, I know of your dislike for her. Paragon wasn't really into her either until we really started to get ideas for her. I didn't really care for her much back in MKDA, but I felt she improved quite a bit in MKD.

Nitara

Well, yeah, we made her good. Her trading card bio says so afterall. I sort of saw her as being neutral too, but I guess she sort of progressed to more of a good character. I'm not sure what other sorts of dynamics we'll be doing with the Vampires.

I'm glad you like the throws. You have some interesting special move ideas for her. We'll likely be modifying her specials as we progress with her.

Getting into the story, I'm glad you like it. Chameleon is dead. Paragon did have some ideas for him, but I just simply loathe the character and wanted him gone.

Sareena

Well, I can't say too much here, really. *shrugs*

Scorpion

Part of me wants to have scrapped him altogether, but Paragon and I are going to take the risky move by trying to actually fix him from the horrendous mess he is in now. As for the joke, *bops you on the head* Bad Preddy, badd!

Sub-Zero

When it comes to the special moves, we basically wanted to give everyone 5 special moves and 2 throws each. We may likely have some variations later on with the amount of special moves. What I mean is, some may have 4 special moves and others may have 6.

For those that have 4 (or maybe even less), we'd like to try and compensate for that by giving them something else in return. As for the experimentation with the special moves, I guess you have a good point. We would like to try an enhance certain specials later. Thanks for the ideas.

Now getting into the bio, he's actually one of the more difficult characters to deal with. Sub-Zero has come a long way and has developed quite a bit. However, I feel that he still has potential to continue on. The issues lie in what to really do with him and how to do it. In fact, we're still sort of trying to work out the kinks. I really want to do something good with him.

As for the whole "police officer" thing, that's not how we were thinking. We had a different mindset. He's basically a "solitary" character. Sektor is one of his major enemies, and he wants to find out what's going on with the Tekunin in Outworld. I can kind of understand the criticism of him not being involved with the main story in this installment. So hopefully, we can pull something good off with him, somehow...

Anyway, thanks for reading and responding again. I'll get to the Raiden stuff another time.

this has taken way too long. SZ7, I don't even see you on kami anymore.
Please reply. I hope things are okay.

Hey everyone. I'm real sorry that there hasn't been any new content lately. There are quite a few things I need to take care of, but Paragon and I are hoping to get out new content as soon as we can. So for all the readers out there who still have interest in our project, please continue being patient.

Alright I believe I already commented upon the intro. I think I commented on some of the bios, but not "in depth." I’m slowly catching up, but eventually I’ll read all of what you have. It’s been a while since I read this so I read it again to refresh my memory. I like the detail that you’ve put into the characters. The fighting styles, costumes, special moves, and fatalities all sound very appealing. Also, I like how you gave each character a specific Kombat Zone. So with that being said I have read the bios from Dairou, Elena, Takako, and Anbar.

Dairou

I really like the fact that you are including this character in the future. It just seems like we didn’t get to know him enough and his story was pretty one-dimensional. I like how you are making him go forward. I like Dairou and I’m glad that you are willing to have him in the future. The story you gave him is good, but it’s straightforward. However, you can’t really build off of him right now because of his story depth. No doubt he has potential. I like that he is on another assassination attempt, and can’t wait to see how it turns out.

Elena

I like this character. Very new and unique. I’m glad that you are including another character from Edenia. I’m glad she isn’t ninja influenced like the previous characters. Her story seems very interesting and I love her weapon style. It has a background story to it, unlike many.

Takako

I like the name and it’s meaning. I’m glad that you’re focusing on the Order vs. Chaos storyline. I like how she has different beliefs and isn’t 100% Order like Hotaru. I like the fact that there is a female in the Seidan guard. I think she might need a little expanding in the future, but other than that it’s a good start.

Anbar

I like how you are including a female in the Seidan Resistance. I like the Middle Eastern touch to the name. I love the concept of anarchy in her views. I think that she will make a good replacement character for Darrius, because I like how she stepped up and took his position.

I like everything so far and I am hooked into the story. I’ll have to do some more reading in the future.