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3D Kombat Klassics

Discussing the 3D MK Klassics: Everything from MK4 to Armageddon.
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]{0MBATPosted: 04/24/2008 10:13 PMStatus ::


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MK vs DC as an answer to Marvel vs Capcom

I think if you view MK vs DC as a solution to Marvel vs Capcom, you could appreciate it a bit more. I've never been a fan of MvC, IMO it was just an excuse to cram a bunch of characters in there and it was a total button-masher; without knowing what the heck you're doing you just summon "helpers" from off screen and suddenly there's super-huge specials and shadows everywhere and your opponents ass is completely kicked.

I think if you strictly look at it comparatively, MK vs DC will be much better for a couple reasons...
  • Fewer characters, so more quality to each one
  • Restricted to characters from just 2 popular franchises rather than dozens that most probably don't care for
  • More of an actual story to explain the co-existences of the different characters, rather than just "Tada! Here they all are!"


Looking at some of the criticism on the boards, I wonder if SF fanboys or even Marvel fanboys reacted the same way.

m2davePosted: 04/24/2008 10:24 PMStatus ::


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RE: MK vs DC as an answer to Marvel vs Capcom

First of all, MvC is not a "button masher".

Secondly, most Street Fighter fanboys do not care about story lines and character designs. They care about the gameplay. That explains why some of their games have been played competitively for decades.

Mick-LuciferPosted: 04/24/2008 10:25 PMStatus ::


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RE: MK vs DC as an answer to Marvel vs Capcom

A lot of fair points, but I prefer to consider them on an individual basis.
For me, the minute you start thinking about it in the context of Marvel vs DC, it's a sad case of the terminal bridesmaids coming up with sloppy seconds decades after the fact.

Which is probably silly. The gap in time alone should remove any thought of a weak attempt to capitalize on a more successful game by more succesful franchises, but I guess if nothing else, MKvsDC has so far exposed just how wrong perceptions can be.

It's still between a rock and a hard place, but on it's own merit, I think MKvsDC will win out in the same way most MK games do... The story.
It might twist and turn a lot, but compared to their international rivals, the MK series has maintained a far more involving and evolving plotline.
A game split by licensed properties might not be a candidate for longterm effect in the MK universe, but as disappointing as that is, it seems like effort to define the game on it's own context is definitely there.
Heck, if we can run the risk of severe disappointment, it's almost fair to expect the most involving storymode MK's ever had. The way the split reference has been referred to, one almost expects a SFAlpha or Tekken style storymode, revealing the plot between and through each battle.

I couldn't agree more. My biggest criticism, as a massive Street Fighter fan, is their total inability to take ownership of their story and universe. That said, comparisons just lead me to hate. And hate is the path to the dark hadou~!

Better The Devil you know...
MK Online Forums: Share your interests, broaden your horizons and support the kommunity with discussion forums for every topic. "Ask not what your country can do for you - ask what you can do for your country."
TonyTheTigerPosted: 04/24/2008 10:37 PMStatus ::


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RE: MK vs DC as an answer to Marvel vs Capcom

To be fair to Midway, they succeeded in doing exactly what they wanted to do. Namely, generate interest. If you asked me two months ago if I cared at all about MK8 I would have said "Eh...not really." Ask me now if I care about MK8? I'll say "I'm interested enough to at least pay attention to the news." So though that doesn't mean I'm an automatic sale it does mean I'll be paying closer attention than I otherwise would have. Wacky ideas tend to draw attention, good or bad. And in the case of MK, any extra attention is good attention considering how marginalized the series has been.

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Apocalypse27Posted: 04/24/2008 10:43 PMStatus ::


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RE: MK vs DC as an answer to Marvel vs Capcom

_OMBAT, please don't take this the wrong way, but calling MvC, especially the part II a "button masher" is....well....ridiculous in every way. I recently started to learn the game, and believe me, MvC is unbelievable hard to learn and if there was ever a game where button mashing will EASILY get you killed, it's MvC.

Code-EM41_25Posted: 04/24/2008 10:48 PMStatus ::


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RE: MK vs DC as an answer to Marvel vs Capcom

i just wanna say MvC isnt just some button masher... i use to play it a lot at high lvl competition... trust me not just some button masher at all.... that is like saying Soul Calibur is a button masher like many ppl actually do say.... yeah perhaps you can win by button mashing, but you'll get owned by higher lvl comp if you dont know exactly what you're doing.

anyways i dont see this game as some kind of answer to MvC cuz that would be a very late attempt... i just see this game mainly as a cash cow for Midway as long as every thing goes well for it.... but it is also an opportunity to expand the fanbase of MK by getting DC fans into MK and possible opportunity for MK to get a place in conversations with the likes of SC, Tekken, DOA, and VF... well so far it seems like MK has been losing fans and DC fans dont seem to really care that much.... so hopefully the fighting is really great and MK can get back on top some how some way.

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Mick-LuciferPosted: 04/24/2008 10:55 PMStatus ::


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RE: MK vs DC as an answer to Marvel vs Capcom

Apocalypse27 Wrote:
_OMBAT, please don't take this the wrong way, but calling MvC, especially the part II a "button masher" is....well....ridiculous in every way.

Oh, I don't know about every way.
Home versions, at the very least, offered isms to quite literally convert gameplay to button mashing.

Better The Devil you know...
MK Online Forums: Share your interests, broaden your horizons and support the kommunity with discussion forums for every topic. "Ask not what your country can do for you - ask what you can do for your country."
mkflegendPosted: 04/24/2008 11:08 PMStatus ::


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RE: MK vs DC as an answer to Marvel vs Capcom

m2dave Wrote:
First of all, MvC is not a "button masher".



Secondly, most Street Fighter fanboys do not care about story lines and character designs. They care about the gameplay. That explains why some of their games have been played competitively for decades.


The older SF games that is...some of the newer ones aren't as popular and I know lots of SF fans that despise the Alpha series and forget about EX lol....

The gameplay in the older ones are fun too, but there's actually some problems of their own in certain ones such as combos into FT's...

There's this huge thread some where explained on umk.com by shock about it but god knows where it is.

Anywho, On ]{0mbat's post, I agree for the most part but also feel like you said the character amount being smaller, a lot smaller as oppose to MVC and past few MK games will cut down the glitches etc and overall be more balanced I foresee...

I think this move is just another new idea that happens to be a crossover, MVC's popularity and hotness was years ago and not so much not really so I think in that respect it's a little late for MK/DC to answer directly, however I do believe in some ways it's MK/DC saying hey we can do a sick crossover too but a hell of a lot darker...

I still find Megaman vs. Hulk=hilarious, yet all of a sudden Bats vs. Subby sounds normal lol

Mick-LuciferPosted: 04/24/2008 11:20 PMStatus ::


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RE: MK vs DC as an answer to Marvel vs Capcom

mkflegend Wrote:
The older SF games that is...some of the newer ones aren't as popular and I know lots of SF fans that despise the Alpha series and forget about EX lol....

Alpha? Are you sure you don't mean SFIII?
Sure, III has a lot of gameplay fans, but Alpha is arguably SF in it's most distilled form! Alpha's so iconic, a lot of people forget what original SFII sprites actually looked like!

Better The Devil you know...
MK Online Forums: Share your interests, broaden your horizons and support the kommunity with discussion forums for every topic. "Ask not what your country can do for you - ask what you can do for your country."
ThePredator151Posted: 04/24/2008 11:59 PMStatus ::


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RE: MK vs DC as an answer to Marvel vs Capcom

I don't believe in fooling myself into liking//buying something I knew I didn't want in the beginning. Cuz usually, it's a regrettable purchase, regardless of the quality of the item after the fact.

Mk has never had to "convince" me to buy one of their games until about MK...D//MKA-ish. Where I rented those first, and got used copies later somehow....

I've decided that I will be patient with them on this, and try the game out when it comes(as I've done in the past)...but I won't be influenced to "think about it a way", just so I can call myself an MK fan.

I'm already a fan....I just don't wanna buy what they're selling this time, so "I'll pass" until I like what I see from them again.

"Look at it" like a swap meet vendor...there's never any hard feelings about it, and I can always come back to the same vendor whenever I wanna spend money with them again..

=-=

Far as the "answer to MvC"...It's waaay too late for that ploy. Doesn't hold much weight with me anyway, cuz I didn't play those games either for the same reason...=...I like MK until further notice.....and that's that.

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massdeathPosted: 04/25/2008 01:01 AMStatus ::


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RE: MK vs DC as an answer to Marvel vs Capcom

If the Marvel vs. Capcom games are not "button mashers" then button mashers don't exist.

Either way, yes in many ways this is an answer to the MvC series.

Boon himself said that M v C took the two universes into a very bright and colorful environment. Now he's taking MK vs. DCU in the exact opposite direction: dark, violent, brutal, and dreary. Interesting when you think about it.

TonyTheTigerPosted: 04/25/2008 01:18 AMStatus ::


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RE: MK vs DC as an answer to Marvel vs Capcom

massdeath Wrote:
If the Marvel vs. Capcom games are not "button mashers" then button mashers don't exist.


Bingo.

Some games may be more "masher friendly" as far as being able to do flashy moves just by randomly hitting buttons but in no game will mashing get you very far against even a below average player. The concept of "button masher" is a fundamental impossibility. In any game a player who has a real strategy will always on average perform better than someone who's just randomly mashing.

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ermacandcheesePosted: 04/25/2008 01:37 AMStatus ::


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RE: MK vs DC as an answer to Marvel vs Capcom

I can't believe ]{0MBAT posted this thread.

m2davePosted: 04/25/2008 02:08 AMStatus ::


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RE: MK vs DC as an answer to Marvel vs Capcom

mkflegend Wrote:
m2dave Wrote:
First of all, MvC is not a "button masher".





Secondly, most Street Fighter fanboys do not care about story lines and character designs. They care about the gameplay. That explains why some of their games have been played competitively for decades.




The older SF games that is...some of the newer ones aren't as popular and I know lots of SF fans that despise the Alpha series and forget about EX lol....


Street Fighter Alpha: 3 was fairly popular. The EX series was a failure, though. No doubt. Capcom has had a lot of failures. However, they did create games like MvC 2, Street Fighter: 3rd Strike, and Street Fighter: 2, which are still played today competitively on a national scale. That is amazing considering that some of these games are almost a decade old. UMK:3, too, is a fighting game classic but Boon does not make good fighting games with good engines any more. That is why many competitive fighting games fans consider it a joke now days.

Some games may be more "masher friendly" as far as being able to do flashy moves just by randomly hitting buttons but in no game will mashing get you very far against even a below average player. The concept of "button masher" is a fundamental impossibility. In any game a player who has a real strategy will always on average perform better than someone who's just randomly mashing.

Exactly. Some people never seem to understand this concept.

ShaoKahnsBoyfriendPosted: 04/25/2008 02:21 AMStatus ::


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RE: MK vs DC as an answer to Marvel vs Capcom

ermacandcheese Wrote:
I can't believe ]{0MBAT posted this thread.


agreed


i see where he is coming from but that crossover/series of fighting games was over in like 2000...why would they be aiming to "answer" to it 8 years later?

the game is nothing more than promotion for the DC comic series and the new Batman movie that comes out this summer...and probably the DVD of the movie will be out around the time this game comes out. and this game will prolly have trailers or sneak peeks to next year's superman movie or something. and in MK's eyes...it gains attention to its franchise, aims to a different market, and won't lose any MK fans by having all the favorites returning.

all in all...it's just a weird idea...but I always thought the whole street fighter vs. xmen idea was weird too but it worked and was fun so who knows at this point.

skillzPosted: 04/25/2008 07:53 AMStatus ::


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RE: MK vs DC as an answer to Marvel vs Capcom

]{0MBAT Wrote:
I think if you view MK vs DC as a solution to Marvel vs Capcom, you could appreciate it a bit more


Are you Boon in disguise? :D

Why should I/we appreciate this game?

I think it's too late to see MK vs DC as an answer...if they would answer the competition. They would by doing a solo MK game. Look at Streetfighter...they are not doing another VS. game, but a totally new Streetfighter.

I don't hate MK vs. DC, don't get me wrong. I am (or was) a fan that have seen everything that I love about MK perish.

-
]{0MBATPosted: 04/25/2008 08:57 PMStatus ::


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RE: MK vs DC as an answer to Marvel vs Capcom

skillz Wrote:
I think it's too late to see MK vs DC as an answer...


A lot of people are saying "too late". Well, it's never too late; I mean that's just not how DC works. Why else would they wait 20+ years to release a sequel to the Superman movies?

ThePredator151Posted: 04/25/2008 09:14 PMStatus ::


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RE: MK vs DC as an answer to Marvel vs Capcom

]{0MBAT Wrote:
A lot of people are saying "too late". Well, it's never too late; I mean that's just not how DC works. Why else would they wait 20+ years to release a sequel to the Superman movies?


See, there it is right there ]{OMBAT...

This ain't DC. It's not even a comic book franchise. It's Mortal Kombat.

As such, if they're not making a "DC game", why consider?
If they're not trying to make anything other than a "what if the two collided" type game, why consider it to be an answer to anything other than waining sales?

Personally, when I said that it's too late, I'm talking about the rivalry that could've come from MK & DC answering Marvel & Capcom. I mean, unless MvC replies again, the mere opportunity to "answer" has been dead for at least 8 yrs.

It's like if somebody hit you in the face, and you wait 10years to go hit them back.

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