I suppose I'll just say what I said before: If she has any athletecism {sorry if I spelled it wrong} then she could possibly be made into a decent fighter.

Hm...if she's a martial artist in any way it'd could work really well.

I like her.

She isn't.


Repost from the "iconic" thread:


... Because a small handful of people said she's perfect without actually having any kind of grounded opinion, or reference? I'd like to think there's a pretty hefty divide between very few people agreeing, and very few people being satisfied to use a lot of words to describe little more than awful (movie) hair and a leaf bikini...

I mean, if we're changing up the nature of a character for the sake of an outfit, let's throw some textures on Jade and dye her hair. Very few can disagree it's the way to go! Or, y'know... Can...


As already described, it's really not an MK conceit to have a fighter specifically removed from their fight. The closest comparisons that come to mind, at least in terms of specials that aren't generated by the character, would be Shinnok/Scorpion's hell hand, which has it's own logics thanks to a portal in the ground.

Spontaneously manifesting plantlife in even the most barren of landscapes, and being physically removed from a fight, are much more in keeping with some of Capcom's ideals. It just isn't remotely suggestive of anything logically expected of MK. Not inherently a bad thing, but in this case, as already thoroughly described, a footnote of more pressing inadequacies.


If they could build a long and involving Konquest plot, I could see Poison Ivy getting dragged along by more prominent and relevant villains re: the Society. Would be a fun mini-boss!


Hard to disagree. I think the inclusion of a character like Powergirl is going to really hinge on the MK team's ability to explore facets of each power and use the multiple characters as an opportunity to develop distinct abilities derived from said powers.

Hawkman would be fun just because it's Hawkman, but with the changes implemented, the burning question remains: To mace, or not to mace?
Guys like Hawkman come ready-made with MK-style weapons at the ready. If you want to talk about perfect picks, I'd like to think there's a niche argument there!


Floronic Man doesn't get a look in, but I think Swamp Thing is such a general concept, most people would recognise him long before the forgettable Uma Thurman character. I would have to imagine a lot of people who could name Swamp Thing aren't even aware he's a comic character, let alone a DC hero.

Swamp Thing just taps into very recognisable monster culture...


Is that a serious question? Incarnations of Supergirl and Flash have had some of their career defining moments emerge in interdimensional struggles!

Both are at the forefront of the Justice League and not at all unexpected to respond to cosmic catastrophe such as the merging-invasion of MK characters. Heck, both make a regular habit of travelling through time and space and are fully equipped to combat any emerging threats...

Kabal isn't without his logics -- he's a martial artist intrinsicly connected to this world by his associations -- but I certainly wouldn't champion his cause over other characters.
He certainly has more connection and ability to compete with events likely to be described in MKvsDC.


Yeah, that's me.


I don't think there's a single character that's been discussed that doesn't beat your average Poison Ivy in a heartbeat. Iconic has somehow become the overblown buzzword by which everything's being defined.

Sure, it's a factor, and Poison Ivy is trumped by a long list of more recognisable and marketable characters. She's even challenged by a similar character in Swamp Thing, who, despite not being an A-lister probably has a cult fanbase that would rival any slash-fiction/bat villain fanclubs I'm assuming exist. (Swamp Thing also has the critical acclaim of Alan Moore on him)

Poison Ivy is nowhere near as capable a fighter as the Amazon princess, Wonder Woman. It just isn't a debate...


Remind me again... What's the reason for her being there?...
I think the difference between both of us saying this is that there are pretty intrinsic reasons well described not to include the character. There don't seem to be a lot for inclusion, aside from tweaking Jade's wardrobe and defying MK logics... Most of the pro-argument seems to be a lot of uninformed head nodding...



Comics are the last thing that's going to help your argument...
How is Poison Ivy's irrelevance in the cosmic landscape ironic? She's a small scope environmentally themed villain who occasionally adds manipulative abilities to a much larger stable of more important and proactive characters.

The heroes and villains we've seen (and will probably continue to see) all have a stake and implied relevance to an interdimensional catastrophe. Even Batman, who consistently plays above his weight, just in case anyone unclear about the Justice League strategist's relevance...

Poison Ivy, despite her super "potential," remains a street level presence butting heads with Batman in Gotham because she (usually) cannot readily compete with bigger threats. Any environmental bargains used to lure her aid to the fight are quickly trumped by the relative obscurity of the character making her incredibly unlikely on the checklist of characters to be tapped -- and the fact that her powers have very little stock in this kind of battle.

Irrelevance; confirmed.

"Athleticism" buddy.

And yes, she can fight! I've been looking for the comics that show this, but I've found some confirmation in the Detective Comics 797-799, were she defeats and humiliates the Riddler.



She can fight, and she does it well.

^^read above.

As for the other replies in my thread:


When you click reply on the post you want to quote, you are directed to a new screen, right? Look at the bottom of the white box, there is a little box that says: “Add Original”. Click that and the text which you pressed to “Reply” will be quoted.



Me too! Well said. And I can see you are another Mileena fanatic, with any luck, we might be seeing this top villain chicks in the game. As for Poison Ivy being an MK character...that would had been fantastic. She would had been my second fave, for sure.

I personally adore that intriguing personality she has, seductive, sometimes even depressive in style. A serious and perfect manipulator, etc. A real bitch, ine we all love to love and hate!



I very much get an aura of mysticism regarding her character because of her looks and powers, her manipulations also add a nice touch, and she has been shown/confirmed having mind control over plants and is more then just fascinated with botany. And correct me if Im wrong, but wasn’t she presented fighting in some of the comics? I guess that’s why you use the word “traditionally”, but Im sure I’ve received a couple of comics were she shows her skills and plant attacks, and she fought very well!

But of course, she doesn’t need to officially have powers (in the comics) that show her summoning vines filled with thorns from the ground that squish you or throwing an overgrown carnivorous plant at you out of nowhere in order for that to be implemented in the game. Just because she hasn’t been shown to do that doesn’t mean its restricted or prohibited in a realm of fighters, creativity and imagination. If she actually makes it, I see no reason why they wouldn’t give her attacks that are faithful to her character and powers.

Like I said, the Joker is a good example. Sure he cant really fight...but could that stop him from being in this game? I don’t think it’ll even be a reason, seeing as they can easily make him be a fighter without being unfaithful of his main essence.

Hopefully you understood my points. But yeah, I also respect what you are saying regarding her not being as iconic as other of the characters that could be used.



For sure. Poison Ivy could do wonders in this game!



I suggest you take a look at some of her potential in here:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Poison_ivy_%28character%29

I had some cooler links but I lost them. That place will provide you with a decent enough summary of her potential, and its very accurate from last I checked.

Plant powers is indeed amazing and original. And being the “dark” character that she is, it is more then easy to see how well she suits MK. As for the fighter bit, she is capable of fighting... Dammit!, where are those comic scans when you need them?!!! *goes to search for the comic books that proves she can kick a%$*

What do you think of her look? I find it very memorable and appealing

.

Very true. And her depending a lot on plants isn’t a bad thing actually, and most certainly it wouldn’t be bad for this game either, if well implemented.

She is a real bitch.

*********************To EdenianNinja:********

QUEVE! haha..its so funny because we totally have the same taste in "favorite characters!" lol

We really do, and that rocks!

Poison Ivy has GOT to be one of the coolest villains to ever enter a cartoon or comic book PERIOD!

As Leo said in another thread: Can I add a DAMMIT?

She is indeed one of the coolest and very memorable.

And I love all those plants with like teeth on them haha. I've been rooting for Mileena so much that I haven't really supported other characters and Poison Ivy is probably the only DC character that I'd actually really like to see and she would fit in PERFECTLY to the MK series. (Gosh..having Mileena and Poison Ivy would be amazing for me).

I’m also glad we are not the only ones who think like that. Mileena has a huge fan base support around here. Imagine just the beauty of seeing her veil fall off in klose-kombat and then seeing those sexy teethes smiling at you...ah.

Now back to our green red haired bitch of unique qualities, she is also the DC character Im mostly hoping to see. Why would she be so perfect for MK? I’ve said it all above. She has that mystic/magical aura around her character that gives her such a strong appearance when compared to others.

And I totally agree with everything Queve mentioned.

Thank you.

Poison Ivy is another one of those characters that can really be enhanced dramatically with these new graphics. When I think of Poison Ivy being in this game...i'm picturing:

- Vines grabbing the opponent while she beats em up
- I've always wanted to see a female character PULL their opponents hair for some reason...I think Poison Ivy or Mileen would look really cool doing so. The pulling hair thing is a trademark for cat fights and I dunno..its cool and random haha..
- Poison Ivy whipping people with her own vine

And I can keep going and going

And more then just that! Picture roots/vines coming out of the ground and squishing the enemy, deadly slapping vines that throw you far away, venomous carnivore plants biting half of your body and shaking you, etc.

As far as storywise..wow, there goes another ton.

Exactly. That’s why I fail to see how she has no relevance in a world like this.

I can see her forming some kind of alliance with Shao Kahn. I can see her stiring up trouble with all the mk dudes..(like getting Sub Zero and Batman to become enemies by coming up with some evil plan or insinuating situations) I can see her form a huge rivalry with either Sonya and/or Mileena.

Which would obviously rock! Have you thought of how seriously cool it would be to see her and Mileena engaging in Kombat like no other babes? The vines against the sais...awesome!

Basically..Poison Ivy would be an awesome addition to this game! Gosh...I really wish Midway would do some kind of poll either here or on the midway forums where fans can vote for the 1 or 2 characters they really want to see and the one who gets the most is in. I know Poison Ivy would dominate.

Being the memorable and recognizable character that she is, she would be a tough competition for many characters. I really hope they find a way to include her, if not playable, at least as a secondary character SOMEWHERE in the game. -_-



Exactly!!! Im glad to see people agreeing with the potential she has to offer.

Not only is about uniqueness and originality, she could also offer a great deal of fun! Would be very interesting to see in action....

On the negative side, I hope they don’t find a way to screw her by copying/pasting special moves (Sonyas Kiss of Death) to her or taking away her plant possibilities.

BTW, Crash-Kid, I finally saw your sig and now I remember you!!! How have you been? Its been ages! I hope things are going well with you. Lately I’ve found plenty of members I used to think were gone for sure (awesome Temp, Tyrant, etc.)



LOL. Well, you don’t know her well enough if you think that’s all she can do....do raping MK and DC characters would be quite fun, now that you mention it...since there are no fatalities.

I agree with your PS...but not entirely. If you took away the label of “super hero” or “villain of the super hero” and *some* “too super names”...the would fit. And how does she not fit? That, I need to hear.



To both of you, how does Poison Ivy not fit MK? Im curious to know, and in comparison with which DC character, specifically?

......Superman is in...Batman is in....The Flash is in.....and SHE doesnt "fit" Mortal Kombat??? Please.



Aww....well, we know lovers can be deadly in their own wicked way.



Well, there’s some like the Joker who haven’t reveal that much power, and still, they could easily make him be a fighter for the game, and it would work nicely considering he too suits the darkness of MK and is very iconic as well.



LOL. That’s why she looks fantastic. Her hair con be sooo wicked! I love the Red, it gives her such a stunning look, and mixed with the green, simply powerful.

But she can fight, and she has won. Check my response above.



Hmmmm, the first pic is just a representation of an example, not exactly an obligatory costume design, and an excellent design if I may say so. Also, what makes you so sure those people don’t have any, at least, solid reference of her character? Just because they think is a good idea?

Now, she is known for having rather weird hair-dos in the overall Batman Universe. She’s had from curly short, to bushy and huge, to very long and sleek/straight, to flowery like a rose, etc. So no big deal.

You arent changing any sort of nature of her character:

She fights.
She dresses with plant like stuff.
She has a variety of hair styles.
She has plant powers.

So, what are we asking? Possibilities with potential. Just like when people ask to give X character X thing. Its not really changing anything at all that corrupts their essence, because they still are what they are supposed to be, but improved.

Now, if you asked for Scorpion’s skull to have a long blond pony tail, then you’ve got a point regarding the “nature of characters”.



Again, if well implemented it could work. I don’t see why it wouldn’t work just because its not what MK has been about since forever. Changes are being made after all.

And again, she can fight. She is not a “known super martial artist”, but that doesn’t stop her from being a good fighter in this game. They are toning some down, they can easily give a boost to others.



Seriously, after having Sharks swimming on the ground and earth, and after having “magically rotating spines” appearing at your command, I don’t see much of a point in this aspect.



Yeah! Hopefully she makes the game somehow. If not playable, that idea of yours is brilliant!



Now THAT’S being positive!

Not to be cruel to the MK Team, but after seeing Flash doing KABALS TRADEMARK special move, I really don’t see a exploration for new facets that each power and character can use in order to create distinctiveness and originality.

Surely a plant terrorist assassin can give them that inspiration more then the ones rumored.

That part of your post could get some love from me if it hadn’t been for the copy/paste Flash deal AND the reputation of the games in general concerning special moves (MKA....ugh).



With that I can agree. Lets hope, if he is in, that he is unique.



I doubt you can call her character forgettable, and that’s even thanks to the horrible film.

As for the Swamp...precisely. He is just an general monster. I would imagine more “human” characters to be selected and recognized before him, unless he was thought of being a kind of sub-boss like Goro, who would also be un favored because of his nature when compared with the more human ones.



I see what you are saying and I agree with this part of your post. I guess they do have a, what could we call it?...an “upper hand” to be there, but sincerely, time traveling shouldn’t mean a thing, since there are others who I imagine cant do that.



That’s were I get confused with your picks. I understand the response above and agree with you, even if I find wholes in it, but in this one, theres really no thing that makes him any greater in relevance when compared with Poison Ivy.



Awesome! You do an excellent job with those man. Well done!



You’ve got another point.

Im probably underestimating the potential of The Swamp Thing. I still don’t agree that he is more recognizable, but I take your word that he is popular (and good!) enough to have a chance.



Of course! Theres no question about that. I have no doubt WM disserves her spot and IS more capable as a fighter, my point was something else. Never mind that.



A reason? Her world has collided with MK, same reason Batman and Superman are trapped in the game. Now, the story that has to be developed for each character is a completely different matter, and they can give her a reason.

Your Jade points, I don’t agree. Your Capcom points, I understand and see what you are saying, but again, we’ve had sharks and other weird “magically appeared” tools that play the same “lets break the MK rules” game of this strange factor in MK, so that’s not really a problem.



LOL. You’ve made a decent point, and hey, don’t think Im a deaf fan, I hear what you are saying and take it as strong possibilities and some of your points as facts. I still trace a hint of understatement in the character, but that’s not that different from me who believes she has super potential.

I can see you don’t see her working her way decently in this world when there are more iconic characters available and when her powers present a challenge, and I admit you have a point, but I also see that you don’t really realize how well she can stand up for herself in this type of game because you don’t seem to give her the credit she disserves. You immediately consider her a no-no because she doesn’t normally fight, and you say she cant (among other good established reasons of course, don’t get me wrong), but we have seen her fighting, and she has proven to be capable of doing enough physical damage.

So, with fighting, having an mk feel to her, having original special moves and having story-potential, I can see her in this game. Some of that can be subjective, but it counts, just as your views does.

Im actually quite convinced she wont make it because of other more iconic guys, but that doesn’t mean she doesn’t disserve it and that she doesn’t stand a chance.

And hey, Im also convinced she has a possibility...




?

I would had liked to hear your thoughts.

Not really... All of that is subjective!

- Throwing the odd punch in an occasional appearance does not change the fact that Poison Ivy is not a fighter.
- There's absolutely nothing intrinsic to Poison Ivy that connects with MK. [She is not a mystic.]
- One or two references to removed gimmicks, and abberations in the special moves, do not justify the spontaneous growth of monster vegetation in an MK game. They are abberations and explicitly removed from the conceits of MK games.
- Poison Ivy has very little relevance to be dragged into a plot revolving around the merging, or invasions, of MK & DC universes. She is not prominent enough or likely to be identified by villains with whom her motivations are opposed (or irrelevant), her powers are dwarfed by her apt contemporaries (from both sides), and her characterization is one of self-preservation more than interdimensional concern.

I'm not going to pretend it's a strictly black and white scenario, but to the question of whether or not Poison Ivy has any business being in the Mortal Kombat versus DC Universe fighting game, the answer is a simple - no.
A fighting game sequel? Not really. Cameo appearance in an adventure mode? Starting to at least make a case. Will it happen? It wouldn't be the worst decision made in an MK game.

Sorry Queve, but I actually have to agree that Ivy just doesn't really fit. And no way does she come even close to the "iconic" level that Boon has stated was the basis for picking the roster.

Now, don't get me wrong.. I got nothing against the character personally. I thinks she's alright. But a fighter? Most definitely not, man. Ivy's all about manipulation and getting OTHERS to do her dirty work for her. Sure, if she's backed into a corner she's got a few tricks that may save her, but really.. she'd rather not get her hands dirty.

Poison Ivy is not a great fighter overall. Wonder Woman, Black Canary, etc... Are all bred to be fighters. P.I. is a Manipulative Villain. She can't fight for squash. Remember BANE in the movie had to be her "BODY GUARD" because she isn't even that skilled in H2H. What is she gonna do? Kiss every male she fights?

I'm not bashing her as a character. Or your opinion on why she should be in. She's pretty. But as a H2H fighter. Not even close to formidable.

From a general standpoint, when you think of her abilities. You think of her as the female Shang Tsung of sorts. Not as in a sorceress or anything. But because of her ability to control plants, vines, etc... at such a high extent. She's very powerful in that aspect, which makes her a great character/villain. Outside that, she would not give Kitana a run for her money. Mainly because of her little to no Martial Arts experience.

This reason alone is why i don't believe she is suited for the game. If she was a more experienced fighter. I would defiantly agree to have her in game.

She isn't very iconic tho....not as much as like Wonder Woman or Catwoman...

True, but I would say she's pretty popular or just well known.

Not a constant fighter, but a woman who despite having bodyguards, can fight.



Fair enough.

Though for a “sequel”, even you stated that she could had a chance. She isnt that unknown/impossible not to make it!



I see what you mean, specially since she isn’t popularly known as a fighter. Though I personally would love to see her backed into a corner in MK vs DC, her “few tricks”, I’m sure, would be powerful enough, and as she has shown, she would fight and kick butt!



LOL on the kissing part. Well, we all know that movie sucked, so no big deal about that.



Just hearing you mention her powers keeps me wondering about the possibilities. But I see what you mean regarding the martial arts experience.



Then, she might still have a chance.



Not as much as Wonder Woman, that’s true. And Catwoman is known to be a constant fighter.



Exactly. Very well recognized are also proper words to describe her.

Poison Ivy is pretty cool.

She has a great set of costumes, and great special abilities. I'm really not sure if she can fight, though, but I'm sure Boon will give her something... if she's in the game.

well the riddler is supossed to be a poor fighter: riddler

And that's why they both shouldn't be in the game.

Agreed.

What I'll be most excited to see is the special moves and how they implemented them gameplay wise in the game. That would rock.



Exactly why I said I needed to find the other comics, that bit is nothing.



Hmmm, I can see how the Riddler wouldnt make it, though he really is a cool villian.

Quote me Queve XD

As I pointed out in the previous thread Poison Ivy doesn't traditionally have any sort of telepathic control over plants, and on top of that how the blue hell is that even remotely similar to Shang Tsung? Do you even read comics? Just by how you bring up Batman & Robin I have serious doubts that you've even picked one up.

I've said it before, but I'll say it again: Replace Poison Ivy with Swamp Thing. He's got similar plant-related powers and is far more iconic and visually interesting. And he's a DC character. So, why not?

There you go, now give us your thoughts (I actually scanned the other thread to see if I missed quoting you here -_-).

In love, huh?



She does have a form of telepathic control over plants. There are plenty of examples but I cant provide any because I cant find the comics to prove it, so I just found some facts on wiki that are not bullsh**:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Poison_ivy_%28character%29#Powers_and_abilities



Yeah, imagine the wonders.

(Btw, good to see you around man, its been ages since last we said hello. I hope you are doing fine)



While I’ve learned not to underestimate the Swamp Thing, he is not, at least in my opinion, as interesting as Poison Ivy, at all.

Similarties:

Poison Ivy: Has toxin in her lips, meaning she is able to literally kill with a kiss, or control her surroundings.

Shang Tsung: Has the ability to absorb souls, he can use them to make him self younger, or implent them into dead bodies to be used as a slave.

Poison Ivy: Has worked with a great mind, Harley Quinn.

Shang Tsung: Has worked with a powerful allie, Quan Chi.

Poision Ivy: Is great at being Manipulative, fooling people into doing what she wants, in return for something much greater.

Shang Tsung. Is also great at being Manipulative, hence his greed for the Amulet in the opening sequence of MKD.

Movie Similarities:

Shang Tsung: Had GORO by his side.

Poison Ivy: Had Bane by her side.

Is it sinking in yet?

And since you're such a smart smash, I do read ALOT of comics. I perfer the DOOM2099 comics aswell as The Martian Manhunter ones. And as of recent SKAAR, who was announced in the World War Hulk #5 Issue. Thank you very much!

I can see her maybe being in MK, I wouldn't mind. She's not much of a "bigtime fighter" though but she's cool

lol thats the problem with all the DC people. I can't really imagin the Joker fighting. But midway can pull it off. I can imagin Poison Ivy fighting Sub ect but only if she looks like she do in that first pic.

Then you don't read enough, especially considering the 2099 line has been retired for a long ass time. That is the worst comparison job I have ever seen between two characters. Using your same logic I could draw a conclusion between Toucan Sam and Woody Woodpecker that would paint them as mirror similarities. As a matter of fact, let's take a look between those two:

Toucan Sam:
- is a bird.
- is blue.
- partakes in whacky misadventures.
- mascot of Froot Loops.
- has three nephews.

Woody Woodpecker:
- is also a bird.
- is also blue.
- also partakes in whacky misadventures.
- starred in some commercials that advertised food products.
- doesn't have three nephews.

Man, the parallels are endless! You need to come up with better justification than "greedy villain who teams up with other villains." What was the point in even pointing out special powers that aren't even remotely similar?