Site Network Movies Fan Submission Community Media Games News
There are 0 users online.
Username: Password: Save:
MK Online    Kommunity    Show Message
Join MK Online Free or become a Flawless Member for special benefits.
Top MKX Discussions
- Supreme Mortal Kombat Champion Tournament 2017!
- Injustice 2 Fighter Pack 1 Trailer Reveals Sub-Zero & More
- MKX Mobile - Baraka Challenge
- Speculation: Future of Non-Playable Characters In Doubt?
- Mortal Kombat X Mobile Announces Anniversary Update
- Kountdown: Top 10 Supremely Missed in Mortal Kombat X
- Mortal Kombat XL Announce Trailer
- MKX DLC: Unpacking Kombat Pack 2 Characters
- Mortal Kombat X Kombat Pack 2 Trailer - 4 DLC Fighters
- WSJ Reports Mortal Kombat X Sales Exceed Five Million
- Guide: Komplete Mortal Kombat X Brutality List

Register to join the discussion. Share stories via @MK_Online & Facebook.


MK Online User Poll

Best Mobile Challenger?
Baraka (20.9%)
Jade (43.5%)
Lin Kuei Cybers (25.8%)
Freddy Krueger (9.6%)



Forum Listings


MK Online Site Updates
  • December 15th, 2017
    Injustice 2 Limited Console Free Trial [Read On]
  • December 7th, 2017
    Atom Battles Black Manta in Gameplay Trailer [Read On]
  • November 28th, 2017
    Captain Marvel Almost Returned in Injustice Fighter Pack 0 [Read On]
  • November 23rd, 2017
    Mortal Kombat X Mobile - Punk Cassie Challenge [Read On]
  • November 18th, 2017
    Mortal Kombat Funko Store Signing - Sunday [Read On]


Site Themes
You must be logged in to
select themes.


MKO on Twitter




3D Kombat Klassics

Discussing the 3D MK Klassics: Everything from MK4 to Armageddon.
Page of 2

RazorsEdge701Posted: 12/16/2008 12:54 AMStatus ::


Rank ::
Visits::20795
Nationality::United States
My thoughts/ideas Post-Armageddon

As most of us are aware, these are pretty much the end-times for Midway and even if another company purchases the MK intellectual property and makes their own games with it, there's no guarantee they'll know what they're doing from a storyline perspective and make something that fits the canon.

There's also no guarantee that Armageddon didn't destoy the realms and cause a complete series reboot.

But, just hypothetically speaking, if MK9 WERE to continue where Armageddon left off...here's what I personally would do.

I wanted to make a topic similar to XiahouDun's fan fiction-esque topics with storylines, bios, and endings, but I'm not good at coming up with new characters, so instead, I'm just going to post my notes and rough ideas.

I may later come up with a complete list of ideas for what happened to every character in Armageddon, but for now, I'm just going to start with which characters I would bring back, why, and what I would do with them.

I'm going to list an average of two characters from every past game. No game should be forgotten or wasted completely, what happened, happened...but at the same time, you want to leave room for new characters to be introduced as well. Also, I've broken them into two categories. The first is the "sure things", the characters I've made up my mind on. The second is the ones I'm not completely convinced on, who might make good hidden characters or should be held back for MK10 instead.

So, I think I've rambled on and explained myself enough. Let's get started.

---
Returning Main Characters:
---

Scorpion - I would say, first of all, that during the battle in the crater at the end of Armageddon, he finally got his revenge on Quan Chi and ended his vow. Quan Chi needs to go right now, for the sake of his character. He's achieved main boss status and lost it. Once you do that, there's no making it back up the mountain. Look how far Shao Kahn has fallen, how little he matters now. Do you want that to happen to Quan Chi? I sure as hell don't. Better to put him out of his misery and let his legacy speak for him.

So anyway, with his vow fulfilled, I would have Scorp realize he made a mistake in Armageddon. He's lost all sense of "honor" and become a full-on villain and that's never what Scorpion was supposed to be. The Champion of the Elder Gods role really, really worked well for him IMO, and I think he should realize that he can still be that, to make up for the things that he's done and earn his way into Heaven, to REALLY rest in peace. It's important to note that THIS was Scorpion's real goal in the earlier games. He wanted "eternal peace". You think peace is something you can get down in the Netherealm?

Also, having the clan of zombies around just doesn't work. Leading his resurrected clan is a Happy Ending, which no character should ever get until the end of their days. And Scorpion's eventual Happy Ending should be Heaven, as I said. He should go to his family, they shouldn't come to him. So yeah, still Champion of the Elder Gods. His goal should be redemption now, make up for his mistakes, earn eternal rest, see his family again in the afterlife, not the mortal world.

Sub-Zero - I'd like to see more about his Outworld heritage, perhaps even have him migrate the Lin Kuei there to try and take responsibility for saving and restoring the homeworld of his ancestors. I also think something should be made of the fact that with Subbie getting older and Frost having been a failure as a pupil, he's running out of time to find (or sire) a successor to his name and legacy.

In a future game, I'd also like to see him and Scorp partner up as the main heroes of the game just one time. Maybe not right away, save it for MK10 or so...It's just something I've always wanted to see and seeing the two of them stand side by side and face a common foe for once has been teased once or twice in past games, but oddly enough never really come to fruition on-screen. Not to mention that ever since Liu died, those two have really been sharing the "main character" spot and it'd be nice to see the plot acknowledge them as such.

Raiden - His turn toward the dark side is very intriguing to me. I wouldn't make him the main villain just yet...I think he needs to slowly ascend to the title over several games. Build him up, make it count, as was done with Onaga, but even more so.

A pretty cool idea I came up for him a while back, during a topic discussing how the plot should return to being about a tournament, was the idea that for once, it should be Raiden, on behalf of Earth, who issues the challenge to take over another realm, because if every realm were merged with Earth, then Raiden wouldn't have to worry about ever fighting off an invasion again.

This would play directly into the way he's supposed to be sort of turning into Shao Kahn, changing the same way he changed, because of subconscious influence from the One Being who wants all the realms to be merged so it can become whole and live again. And the best part is, it can be played up as "are they attacking us or are we attacking them?", where some of the good guys don't even know Raiden's not their ally anymore. He can play both sides against the middle and look like a mastermind.

Cyrax - I feel Sonya and Jax took a backseat in the storyline post-MK3 and have grown stale. (In fact, I sort of predict Jax got himself killed in Armageddon, what with his rage issues in Deception and being captured by the Tekunin) But someone should still represent the Special Forces/OIA. And it would be just wrong not to have at least one Cyberninja in the game. Cyrax definitely needs to recapture the popularity he had in MK3, though. Having the net back would help more than anything, I think...

Anyway, storywise, I see the explanation being something like because Sonya's nearly 40 years old and probably reached the rank of General by now, she's more of a desk job leader of the OIA and Cyrax has become the lead field agent, explaining why he's out there doing the fighting and the hunting down of criminals and she's back at the base. The bright side for Sonya fans is this doesn't completely prevent her from making a return later down the line, say, when Cyrax needs to be bailed out of a jam, which would make for an ironic role reversal from MK2. This time, it's the tech-y black guy who got captured and Sonya's the commanding officer doing the rescuing.

Ermac - Outworld needs a hero, and personally, I love Ermac. Deception just did so much for this character. The "mysterious and wise mystic/sage" personality, the Venom-esque plural speech, the idea that he's so much more powerful than you'd ever expect, judging from the way he singlehandedly defeats the mind-controlled Sonya, Jax, Cage, Kung Lao, and Kitana all at the same time, all of it just makes me want to see Ermac become a recurring protagonist.

Reiko - Outworld also needs a villain, and Shang and Kahn had their day. I know everyone hates it when they make Reiko more like Kahn, but I don't see it as a "weird helmet fixation" or a copycat matter. The helmet is a symbol of power, a crown. What Reiko really wants is to be emperor, and I'd like to see how he might rise to power, how he'd be a different leader of the forces of evil than we've seen with all the angry, growling brute villains of the past.

Reiko's calm and analytical, he seems to have a habit of knowing when a cause is lost and sneaking out the back before he can be caught, and he doesn't raise his voice or disrespect his enemies. I like that in a bad guy. I see him as the next generation's Shang Tsung or Quan Chi, the intelligent, devious, plotting and planning villain...but at the same time quite different and unique in his own right because of his honor and discipline. He shouldn't be a Final Boss, though. He needs to earn some power and gravitas. Going back to my ideas for Sub-Zero and Ermac, I actually see an ongoing subplot about a war for control of Outworld between Reiko and several other characters.

Fujin - Finally in the role he was supposed to have after MK4: taking Raiden's place as the guy who leads the heroes. He could use a little work, though. I feel like the reason he hasn't caught on the way Raiden has is that there's not enough that stands out about him. He plays kinda like a Kung Lao clone, for instance. To start with, I'd narrow down his color scheme a little. Raiden stood out in the 2D games because he just wore all white with a blue vest. Fujin's colors in MK4 were black and teal, let's focus more on that, ditch the maroon he was covered with in Armageddon. Then I'd bring back the MK4 crossbow as a projectile special move, because that weapon was unique.

I'd definitely try to give him an interesting personality/dialogue in cutscenes. Something memorable like the "I'm gonna pick on and tease you until you learn a lesson" movie and TV version of Raiden...but not the same. I always sorta figured the difference between Raiden and the other Earthrealm gods was that he cared more about the mortals than any of them did and that's why he was protector in the first place. So maybe I'd make Fujin an outright miserable asshole who berates his charges...but in a charismatic, amusing way. Think along the lines of the TV character Dr. House.

Kenshi - I actually would've preferred to have him as "the Special Forces guy", rather than Cyrax, but they had him leave the group in Armageddon, and I can see why. Kenshi's a loner by nature and there are advantages to having a "mysterious wandering ronin" sort of character. What was interesting about his Armageddon bio was he's so reluctant to join the other heroes and be part of a larger group, but finally, not only did he give in and do so, he actually embraced it and became their leader on the battlefield. I see him and Fujin as definite allies and an important part of whatever the lead group of heroes ends up being in the next generation.

Drahmin - As a demon, he was portrayed as a joke, a dumb brute, but I think there's a LOT more there to explore. In the lead-up to Deadly Alliance, as we saw such elaborate concept art talking about his past as an Outworld warlord and how the mask he wears allows him to think clearly, he definitely came off as just as deep and interesting as Kenshi and there's a lot of potential there for a much bigger, smarter, more interesting villain than what we finally got in-game. All he needs is a moves revamp and a slightly more elaborate costume. (in both cases, the flies have GOT to go)

Someone's gotta rule the Netherealm and all the other Hell characters have kinda...done everything they can possibly do. Shinnok was the big evil of two games, three if you count his machinations in Armageddon, Quan Chi's just gotta die already as I explained, and Noob...well, Noob's been in EVERY SINGLE GAME. Let's let the boy rest for a while, eh? That pretty much leaves only Drahmin. You can't really create a new character for this sort of role, it's too high a position, it feels more appropriate to the audience if it's earned by someone they already know.

Kira - The ordinary, modern day criminals of Earth, represented by the Red and Black Dragon, have been part of every MK game...but neither group has ever truly caught my interest. The problem is their leaders, the characters who represent these gangs.

The only time I ever liked Kano was MKDA, where he wasn't even a Black Dragon anymore, and just...he should be dead. Right now, there's nothing more you can do with Kano. He's done. Potential fulfilled, story over. And Kabal...man, I liked him, but honestly? First he was a criminal, then he decided to be a vigilante, then he all of a sudden did a 180 back to evil, and he and Mavado can't even get the job done right trying to kill each other? There's no fixing that mess. As for the Red Dragon, Daegon actually got me kinda interested in them, but that story came to an end. The whole clan was wiped out by Caro the dragon and Daegon is now on his own, facing whatever judgment results out of Armageddon.

So the creators will always want to keep a Dragon clan around, but who's going to lead it? Well Kira is the perfect person to replace Kabal, she's got the same outlook, a completely unmangled, consistent personality, and frankly, I really like the way she looks. (It seems so odd to me that it took 6 damn games before MK introduced a redhead...) Anyway, the whole copying Sonya and Kano's moves thing is a bit of a problem, I understand that's the main reason most people don't like her, but that can be fixed by simply coming up with new moves for her.

Sareena - Entire essays have already been written about the value of this character. Seems like she's become an instant favorite, perhaps even more popular than Kenshi. I'll just leave it at that.

---
Hidden Characters / MK10 Holdouts / On the fence:
---

Sonya - See Cyrax.

Kung Lao - It seems natural for him to take Bo' Rai Cho's place as the old teacher, training new Shaolin/White Lotus characters. Mind you, if it came down to the wire and I had to cut someone, I'd probably drop Kung since Fujin and Kenshi can easily fill the same role.

Kitana or Jade - Kitana's one of my favorite characters, but I feel like Edenia's use as a setting has run out. How many times can the same realm be conquered before it's defenders look like losers? Anyway, if you're going to retire Kitana, the most fitting way to do it is to have Sindel die and Kitana become Queen. That gives her a logical reason to no longer be able to leave the realm and go fight at the drop of a hat. She'd have too many responsibilities to the kingdom. In which case, she would send Jade in her place.

Alternatively, I have three ways to make Edenia relevant again:

1) A villain successfully conquers it and becomes a major threat. The entire reason Edenia has been so irrelevant is because Outworld is always the center of attention. With an Edenian villain, that changes and the realm matters again. This was already done and technically worked with Blaze, but it was wasted by not having Kitana or Sindel appear in the story mode at all. Still, this is the weakest of the three ideas.

2) Going back to my Raiden idea, have Edenia be the realm he seeks to conquer. Raiden would certainly see them as a threat now, after Argus' plan in Armageddon nearly destroyed the realms and Taven beat him in a one-on-one fight. Speaking of realms that we need a reason to care about, doesn't Seido seem like a natural place for Raiden to get allies from? Maybe he should conquer them first...they might even welcome him as their leader.

3) Blaze/Armageddon destroyed Edenia, leaving Kitana and her remaining forces as refugees stuck on Earth or another realm. I rather liked the idea in Kitana's MK vs DCU ending and I think that it or a variation of it could actually work in the main continuity.

Taven - See Kitana for my feelings on Edenia. However, IF the realm were to return...I liked Taven, I really got into him and enjoyed his sarcastic, somewhat selfish "I am not a sucker like Shujinko was" personality, and I like the idea of seeing more gods than just the ones from Earthrealm in these games. If there's a place for Edenia in the story, I want to see him there as it's current protector.

Besides, Raiden as a leader of the heroes was so popular and important, his shoes may be too big for any one character to fill, especially one who's been shafted and overlooked as badly as Fujin has. Two, however, could surely do the trick.

Smoke - I think the interesting thing about his time in the Netherealm and his body now looking like it's actually made of smoke is that it makes him sort of like a ghost. So I see him returning as a "ghost of the past" in the symbolic/metaphorical sense. He's free of Noob now, but he's lost so much...years of his life, his humanity, maybe even part of his soul. He was Sub-Zero's best/only friend, and he failed him, and I think that should still haunt Subbie...literally.

Not that I see Smoke as a villain. More like a tortured and confused figure begging to be saved, set free, or redeemed. Either way, he certainly no longer fits the narrow term "Cyberninja", which is good because it means he and either Sektor or Cyrax can be in the same games now without seeming redundant.

Tanya - Deception dropped the ball on this particular character trait, but based on the way she behaved in MK4, I will always see Tanya as the "seductress" character of Mortal Kombat, that one female villain every franchise needs, who uses sex appeal as her weapon of choice. (Well...Mileena's one too, but I believe Mileena's potential has been as explored as it ever can be and her time is over.) The advantage Tanya has over Mileena is her greater intelligence and self-reliance.

Like I said about Reiko, she's a trickster like Shang and Quan were. She could easily become just as important to the story as the sorcerers were in their games. She could even become a sorcerer herself...the way her and Quan came into contact in MK4 was always sort of suspicious and made me wonder if she hadn't been seeking to become an apprentice or something like that?

Havik - The only Chaosrealm/Seido character who didn't suck. You gotta give him some credit for rising above the rest of those ugly designs and boring stories and making something interesting of himself as what some fans have been calling "The MK universe's Joker". The nice thing about him is, even if you can't find a use for Seido and Chaosrealm in a story, Havik never stays there. Havik goes wherever the hell he likes just to stir up shit for fun. Havik is the fly in EVERYONE's ointment, and I like that.

Noob Saibot - As I said under Drahmin, I feel that Noob should sit out a game or two...however, I don't think he should go away forever. His unresolved ties to both Scorpion and Sub-Zero still stand out. As I said, I would like to see Scorp and Subbie working together for once, and I think Noob is the one enemy that would be perfect to bring that about. It would be especially interesting to me if Scorpion's reason for targetting Noob is an "I created a monster" sense of regret, as that would feed back into the desire to atone and earn passage to Heaven that I talked about. Also, I think Dark Raiden should be the one responsible for bringing Noob back into the story in the first place, as Scorp and Subbie would both present I think the greatest threat to him in a game where he's the main boss.

And finally...

Hsu Hao - No, no, I know. Everyone hates him. I hate him too. He's a TERRIBLE character. BUT...I like a challenge, and I think I can fix him. Just hear me out for a second.

See, his Armageddon ending got me thinkin' (it was just about the ONLY one to do so, lol)...what if his lack of a heart DID cause him to become an Oni when he died? That would lead to a complete overhaul of the character. In theory, he could be a big monstrous brute sub-boss type, OR he and Drahmin could be a single character slot tag-team like Noob/Smoke.

He'd make a great henchman for Drahmin in Moloch's absence. I could really see the two connecting, actually, on the basis that they're the only two Oni who started out as mortals, rather than being born demons. And they'd make a great contrast if, as Drahmin becomes more powerful and regains more of his intelligence and humanity, Hsu Hao at the same time is always sinking deeper and deeper into unthinking, unfeeling demonhood.

ChromePosted: 12/16/2008 02:45 AMStatus ::


Rank ::
Visits::15999
Nationality::Hungary
RE: My thoughts/ideas Post-Armageddon

I would love to think that Scorpion would have to go for the sake of Quan Chi.

Sig1 photo Chrome-sig_zps5a62b1b1.jpg
RazorsEdge701Posted: 12/16/2008 02:53 AMStatus ::


Rank ::
Visits::20795
Nationality::United States
RE: My thoughts/ideas Post-Armageddon

And what would you even do with Quan after that?

He's ruled Hell and been trapped in Hell. He's found the MK universe's most powerful artifact, kept it while giving away a fake, lost it, and found it again. He's been sidekick to a main boss, been a main boss himself, and been a sidekick again. He's presumably died and come back once already.

What's left? He's done everything he can.

ThePredator151Posted: 12/16/2008 04:28 AMStatus ::


Rank ::
Visits::1547
Nationality::United States
RE: My thoughts/ideas Post-Armageddon

Obligatory...

RazorsEdge701 Wrote:
Raiden


I don't mind the idea, mainly because it's a subsequent result of a few ideas I've had on how to make Raiden a boss from where he's at. But truthfully, I wouldn't make Raiden a boss at all. Not from that anyway....I think to make him a boss it requires unnecessary and, ...really kinda irrelevant manipulation based on his character and what's happening in his story right now. I just think that the idea would make a greater sub-plot for him while the "new" is being inevitably ushered in at the same time. A sort of consequential lesson learned for Raiden that even houses a chunk of irony.

Says that even though he's acting as the ultimate force and symbol of protection for Earthrealm, Earthrealm itself is taking measures without him to protect itself. That's the original concept of this idea. Also gives reason to move some of the (Xia calls them) "sacred cows" out of the way for a game or so logically, and almost as a consequence to his actions and manipulation of the "sacred cows", allows the new characters a way into a new mortal kombat. Wouldn't even surprise me if Fujin was the sponsor for the new contest, or more importantly, a new boss character altogether.

Look, as receptive as I would be to a furthered "Boss//Bad Guy Raiden character", there is no need for him to be a boss. And no, it doesn't make sense to make him a bad guy either. Not unless you move alot of stuff around from the goal path and attitude he has right now. No, he's not either "turning into Shao Kahn". It takes a big push to do that. lol

I will say that this idea is one natural progression I could see though. Just not as a grand scheme for a game. Make it his sub-plot and have him use the old characters, including Zombie Liu Kang, as a means to an end that he wants to happen for earth.

==

Also, I have to say that I am not feeling the many inferences to the One Being. I think it's cheezy to try and tie every-little incident to that character whenever something happens. Especially because there's enough of a universe in Mortal Kombat never to even mention it.

I also think that two or three things (Shang, Quan, and Raiden's souls) trying to occupy the same space in the EtherRealm is enough to explain and justify the taint situation. "The spirit of a thing is nothing to scoff at" ect... Down playing the spirit factor shouldn't be happening, and it's making the One Being a big fat scapegoat for everything unexplained. The MkTeam need to explain all these unexplained things, not scapegoat the One Being everytime. That's actually lazy if they're doing that.

The only other big thing I'd really like to know about that situation, is if Quan Chi and Shang Tsung were affected in a similar way as Raiden was.....or were they? We just haven't seen anything yet?

======

I'll come back....

The Ultimate Mortal Kombat Experience
- Lead Graphic Designer - Mortal Kombat Online -

:G-play :Story :F-Design :Cutout :Get Sig :Raiden :Fans [1] [2] :#LegendaryArts
RazorsEdge701Posted: 12/16/2008 05:01 AMStatus ::


Rank ::
Visits::20795
Nationality::United States
RE: My thoughts/ideas Post-Armageddon

Personally, I just don't agree in the slightest with the idea that Raiden's darkness has anything to do with Shang or Quan, or that their souls somehow mingled when they died. Besides, how can we even be sure Quan was blown up? We all saw him turn to run at the last second before the explosion, I personally like the idea that he escaped by teleporting.

Anyway, Deception was not exactly subtle about the whole "Raiden is travelling down the exact same path Shao Kahn did" thing. It's simply too obvious to ignore what's happening to Raiden and where it's likely headed.

Any argument you can give to say Raiden isn't a bad guy and isn't under the OB's influence, I can say the same was probably true about Kahn thousands of years ago, and yet look what happened. His goals slowly twisted and mutated until he went from protecting his world to conquering others. We never got to see what Kahn was like back then. If we had, maybe fans would have grown attatched to the good version of him and not wanted to accept it when HE turned evil either?

And who's making "many" inferences to the One Being? I'm not. Raiden is the only place I said that name. I'm not pinning everything on him, I'm just pinning on him the things Deception already did. He's in no way supposed to be the center of attention here. If I were good at coming up with new characters, I would have designed a Main Boss who has nothing to do with the One Being.

Besides, I don't think The One Being is the cop-out you seem to think it is. The OB doesn't excuse a character's actions or take away the responsibility from them. It's a subconscious influence. Raiden is still making his own choices for his own reasons. Those choices just tend to lead in the direction of "merge all realms". It's a gentle nudge, not mind control.

And in the end, he'll have to be stopped. In his efforts to protect Earth, Raiden's new "destroy all enemies" attitude WILL make him a threat to the other realms, no matter WHAT the reason for him turning dark is. And that makes him a major antagonist. Like I said, MK9 is too soon for it to happen. 10 is probably a little soon too, I wouldn't make him the Final Boss until MK11.

In fact, future games might benefit from a more creative system where there's more than one Boss in the same game, and which character you play as determines which one you fight at the top of the ladder.

XiahouDun84Posted: 12/16/2008 08:15 AMStatus ::


Rank ::
Visits::14274
Nationality::United States
RE: My thoughts/ideas Post-Armageddon

ThePredator151 Wrote:
....some of the (Xia calls them) "secret cows" out of the way for a game or so logically, and almost as a consequence to his actions and manipulation of the "secret cows"...

That's "SACRED cow."

Just wanted to clarify that. I'll give a real response to this thread later.

ThrawnPosted: 12/17/2008 06:15 AMStatus ::


Rank ::
Visits::296
Nationality::United States
RE: My thoughts/ideas Post-Armageddon

Chrome Wrote:
I would love to think that Scorpion would have to go for the sake of Quan Chi.


LOL. That is probably the wittiest post I have read on this entire site. I love it.

RazorsEdge701Posted: 12/17/2008 06:42 AMStatus ::


Rank ::
Visits::20795
Nationality::United States
RE: My thoughts/ideas Post-Armageddon

Oh lord, don't encourage him.

ThrawnPosted: 12/17/2008 06:45 AMStatus ::


Rank ::
Visits::296
Nationality::United States
RE: My thoughts/ideas Post-Armageddon

RazorsEdge701 Wrote:
Oh lord, don't encourage him.


LOL Alright man I won't. Listen Razor it's been fun, but I gotta get some sleep. I have got to pull a 12hr shift tonight. I'll catch you later.

RazorsEdge701Posted: 12/17/2008 06:54 AMStatus ::


Rank ::
Visits::20795
Nationality::United States
RE: My thoughts/ideas Post-Armageddon

Fair enough.

In the future, if you've got any ideas of your own or alternative directions characters could be taken in, I am open to suggestions, so long as an in-story explanation for them is given that fits established canon and makes logical sense.

I know I seem set in my ways, but most of my ideas came from discussions with others like XiahouDun and Predator. Nothing's created in a vacuum.

ThePredator151Posted: 12/17/2008 10:06 AMStatus ::


Rank ::
Visits::1547
Nationality::United States
RE: My thoughts/ideas Post-Armageddon

XiahouDun84 Wrote:
ThePredator151 Wrote:

....some of the (Xia calls them) "secret cows" out of the way for a game or so logically, and almost as a consequence to his actions and manipulation of the "secret cows"...


That's "SACRED cow."



Just wanted to clarify that. I'll give a real response to this thread later.


Oup! you got me, lol. Edited earlier and had to come back to actually post.

RazorsEdge701 Wrote:
Personally, I just don't agree in the slightest with the idea that Raiden's darkness has anything to do with Shang or Quan, or that their souls somehow mingled when they died. Besides, how can we even be sure Quan was blown up? We all saw him turn to run at the last second before the explosion, I personally like the idea that he escaped by teleporting.


Hm...?

Specifically though, the first line:

In an instant, Raiden's blast destroyed us all! Our souls intertwined, we did battle in the ether.

RazorsEdge701 Wrote:
Anyway, Deception was not exactly subtle about the whole "Raiden is travelling down the exact same path Shao Kahn did" thing. It's simply too obvious to ignore what's happening to Raiden and where it's likely headed.


Would you mind presenting how forthcoming MKD was for me? Otherwise I'm inclined to believe this train of thought is a twisted version of what Fujin stated in his MKA bio

Specifically though, from the first paragraph:

Yet this new Raiden is dark, acting with a clear goal to defend the realm, but with the ruthlessness of Shao Kahn.

I don't read it as an inference to a past Shao Kahn had, I read it as a reference to a known ruthless character.


RazorsEdge701 Wrote:
Any argument you can give to say Raiden isn't a bad guy and isn't under the OB's influence, I can say the same was probably true about Kahn thousands of years ago, and yet look what happened. His goals slowly twisted and mutated until he went from protecting his world to conquering others. We never got to see what Kahn was like back then. If we had, maybe fans would have grown attatched to the good version of him and not wanted to accept it when HE turned evil either?




Too many assumptions in there, and not enough proof.

RazorsEdge701 Wrote:
And who's making "many" inferences to the One Being? I'm not. Raiden is the only place I said that name. I'm not pinning everything on him, I'm just pinning on him the things Deception already did. He's in no way supposed to be the center of attention here. If I were good at coming up with new characters, I would have designed a Main Boss who has nothing to do with the One Being.



Besides, I don't think The One Being is the cop-out you seem to think it is. The OB doesn't excuse a character's actions or take away the responsibility from them. It's a subconscious influence. Raiden is still making his own choices for his own reasons. Those choices just tend to lead in the direction of "merge all realms". It's a gentle nudge, not mind control.


Whu? Only thing "leading" anywhere from MKA is that "he's likely gonna try and complete his mission of removing all the threats to Earth". Albeit in a ruthless manner.

There is no grand scheme of merging anybodies realm with anyone else's in play right now. And, I think it'd be stupid to, considering he's aiming at seemingly, specific targets. Shinnok, Onaga, Shao Kahn, Quan Chi, Shang Tsung....ect. To name a few.

Member the whole puppet master thing? It's specific to individuals.

RazorsEdge701 Wrote:
And in the end, he'll have to be stopped. In his efforts to protect Earth, Raiden's new "destroy all enemies" attitude WILL make him a threat to the other realms, no matter WHAT the reason for him turning dark is. And that makes him a major antagonist. Like I said, MK9 is too soon for it to happen. 10 is probably a little soon too, I wouldn't make him the Final Boss until MK11.


This, is something I agree with. He will have to be stopped. BUT, I think it makes him a major antagonist to a specific uniform.

That, to which are specific to those who try to stop him on this mission at that time. Still disagree with the Boss thing, and think it would be much better played out through a good sub-plot thing.

RazorsEdge701 Wrote:
In fact, future games might benefit from a more creative system where there's more than one Boss in the same game, and which character you play as determines which one you fight at the top of the ladder.


Agree here too.

The Ultimate Mortal Kombat Experience
- Lead Graphic Designer - Mortal Kombat Online -

:G-play :Story :F-Design :Cutout :Get Sig :Raiden :Fans [1] [2] :#LegendaryArts
RazorsEdge701Posted: 12/17/2008 11:05 AMStatus ::


Rank ::
Visits::20795
Nationality::United States
RE: My thoughts/ideas Post-Armageddon

ThePredator151 Wrote:
In an instant, Raiden's blast destroyed us all! Our souls intertwined, we did battle in the ether.


Okay, fair enough. I just didn't remember that line.

That at least confirms Quan Chi did, in fact, die in the blast. As far as their evil "rubbing off" on Raiden's soul, who's to say we're not both right?

As for proof that Raiden is on the exact same path Shao Kahn went down...

Damashi: "There was a time when he was much like Raiden is to your Earthrealm - an advisor. But he abandoned his position and stole Outworld for himself."

They flat out tell us that Kahn was once like Raiden before he turned bad...in the same game that Raiden turns bad.

If you want to believe that's a coincidence...well, good luck to ya. Fujin comparing the two in his bio hadn't even occured to me, but it only further convinces me that Vogel wants us to see the connection.

By the way, we thinkin' this is a coincidence too?


It's the symbol on the back of Raiden's cape too, but I couldn't find a pic.

It's not nearly as solid evidence as what I already presented, but I think it means something.

Now you just have to ask yourself, WHY do they want us to know that Raiden's fall mirrors Shao Kahn's? Could it be...because they're happening for the same reason? Well, Kahn's reason was The One Being, that much we know.

There's also implications that before Onaga died, he was actually a pretty decent emperor (he had a good guy Kahn as an advisor, for example), and that only the post-death, OB-influenced version was truly tyrannical and concerned with conquering other realms. Personally, I see a pattern.

I don't intend to spend the whole topic talking about JUST Raiden, so all I'll say further is, maybe you're not convinced, but I've seen all the evidence I need, so "Raiden is under the OB's influence" is the story I'm running with.

ThePredator151Posted: 12/17/2008 07:50 PMStatus ::


Rank ::
Visits::1547
Nationality::United States
RE: My thoughts/ideas Post-Armageddon

RazorsEdge701 Wrote:


Too much conspiracy theory at that point. "Warriors wear certain stuff" is all I take it as.

Far as what Damashi said, the roles and character descriptions are still too different between Raiden and Shao Kahn to be trying so hard to make that connection. Ex-Advisor vs present Protector God of Earth (rogue or not, he is what he is). I think a better comparison would be Raiden = Onaga at that point. But then they'd have to tell us that Onaga used to be the God of Outworld.

Rather not have that though. I like the exclusivity that gods are supposed to have. And the possibility of a threat in an extremely powerful mortal like Shao Kahn or Onaga in that case.

Also, nothing's saying that Onaga was doing a particularly bad job ruling Outworld. Shao Kahn's just a power monger.

But I'm cool ending my obligatory Raiden stuff here.

=======
(unrelated)

Just to make sure I post this up everywhere I talk about Raiden; Shao Kahn and Raiden being brothers is one of the stupidest things they could do to add complexity to his and Shao Kahns' stories.

Don't do it MkTeam...don't do it. I'm getting too big a feeling of incest from Mortal Kombat with all the relatives and possible relatives in the games.

I figure that while it's still not canon... it needs to stay non canon. Forever. We've got enough lineage and frat bros to look at already.

RazorsEdge701 Wrote:
Fujin


Going forward, Fujin needs to show how powerful he is, number 1. Wind is a subtle element to begin with. Finding the worth in how powerful that element is, is something I think they need to work on trying to bring forward for him. I'd have them brainstorm on a solid few ways to show the power for wind, and the worth of air.

For instance: We know he can fly, but shouldn't he be able to "breathe new life" into things? Shouldn't a power that carries a message like that, be associated with this god? Another one: Shouldn't Fujin be seen using the rules of centrifugal force and balance alot more obviously than any other character? I think they did pretty good in MKA with this, but it still needed alot of work on the concept table.

He should be the god that doesn't set traps and all that, he should be the god that uses you against you alot. Alot of Ba Gua style I'd think. "Circles and continuous movements....ect.

THEN, throw in some of the moves that he had in MKA. Gusts of air, burst of speed...a throw that spins the opponent around really crazy....ect

"Wind" moves.

Fatality? Find a cool way to "Take ones breathe away". Or something like a 5 finger wind cut from a distance or something....idk

Another thing is, he needs a more evident personality, a good voice actor, and a nice new design that speaks to the power of wind better.

To start with the voice, I think it'd be cool to have his voice be either really whispy//raspy, or to hear a voice that speaks to frequencies or measurements of sound. To me, his design right now looks like he should probably sound something like a stereotypical Native American man. However, I don't think he needs to have a particularly deep voice at all. That's why I like the raspy//whispy voice for Fujin. The voice actor would have to speak in a way that gives more "air" to speeach, rather than actually using his vocal cords to do the voice. Something like an old man, but with an obvious youthfulness to it.

For his design, I like the ponytail thing, and I think that if there was supposed to be a god with a cape, it probably should have been Fujin instead of Raiden. Although yea, it works for Raiden too. I don't dislike either of Fujins past costume designs, but I don't think they play to a theme very well either.

Hm....I think his design is too passive. It doesn't say "wind god", it only says "character". Which is kinda weird because wind IS quite passive unless it's being absolutely violent at the time. I think they should go with prominent round designing with him, straights in his design should probably be the passive attributes, and absolutely no sharp or really bold attributes to the character.

I'd probably take this design and re-imagine it with a familiar, but different color scheme.

What about some kind of Mortal Kombat concoction of a Mythological Wind God// Japanese warrior// with Elf-like conceits here or there, but just not so grand? Lol idk. Something more appealing to this theme of wind GOD, that doesn't take him far at all away from his MK4 design. If this idea seems too grand, then it's not what I meant.

anyway...moving along...
=====

He also needs more of a backstory, and most importantly, he needs things that separate him from Raiden to an unequivocal degree.

Decisions that he made that saw Raiden go right and Fujin go left...but that worked. Preferences in his rule over whatever his duties were....What were his duties anyway?

Overall I don't like how Fujin is being handled. He's sort of this, side-kick-ish sort of irrelevant god so long as Raiden is around. I don't think this needs to be the case at all. Give him weight by showing or telling us how important he is to earthrealm, by allowing us to see some of these things that he is in charge of.

I would appreciate it the best, if they actually didn't "make him" be so tied to the mortals. That's a Raiden-like sentiment that I don't believe Fujin needs in order to be a force for his story, or the other characters.

They do that, and I don't think it'll matter if Raiden is on the roster or not. I'd say, give Fujin stuff like "The responsibility of usher to souls from Earth to Hell or Heaven", after they die..... He's then, in a way, "the gate keeper". Plays well with Fujin I think, because it would signify that he is in control of balancing the flow of things. Gives weight to how much more important he is in the grand scheme of things, as opposed to "in comparison to Raiden". At the same time, it gives Raiden some brownie points for delegation, and management skills.

Beef the guy up in ways that play into his central character concept.

I don't know alot about his story specifics, I'll admit. But I think it's because there's nothing there that I couldn't already get from Raiden.

==
Last thing:

I think I gotta disagree with you on the bow and arrow thing Razor. That was the one and only other thing I really didn't like about Fujin. He should be using wind within his basic moves (close range), and distance for a wind guy should never be a problem.

I think giving Fujin a weapon is a handicap. But that could also be said for all the other supposed, "very powerful characters" on the roster too.

The Ultimate Mortal Kombat Experience
- Lead Graphic Designer - Mortal Kombat Online -

:G-play :Story :F-Design :Cutout :Get Sig :Raiden :Fans [1] [2] :#LegendaryArts
XiahouDun84Posted: 12/18/2008 12:49 AMStatus ::


Rank ::
Visits::14274
Nationality::United States
RE: My thoughts/ideas Post-Armageddon

SCORPION
Heh...I'm actually kind of inclined to agree with Chrome regarding him and Quan Chi. But seriously, since we all know Scorpion's not going anywhere, I agree with your thoughts. Scorpion needs to grow up and accept his family & clan are gone. I would like him to realize that his mad pursuit for vengeance is turning him into a monster and thus, strive to regain his honor. In doing so, he can perhaps reunite with his family in Heaven. Something I did with my next gen stories is also have Scorpion not want his family to see what he's become and that being part of the reason he tries to regain his honor.

Scorpion's family and clan coming back to life is just all kinds of awful.


SUB-ZERO
I don't like the idea of Sub-Zero moving the Lin Kuei into Outworld or seeking to restore his homeworld. I agree they should explore the Cryomancer history, but I don't want Sub-Zero to suddenly feel obligated to Outworld or that he is somehow now a native of the realm. He's from Earth. His father was from Earth. Thousands of years worth of generations were born on Earth. Subz is an Earth man.

As far as exploring the Cryomancers, I think they should instead focus more on who, what, & why they were driven to extinction and forced to migrate to Earth. And if any of this is to have future repercussions on Sub-Zero's story, have said who/what/why return to bite him on the ass. Maybe the answer to that question can be a factor in future threats and lead to what makes Sub-Zero take the role of main hero, finally.


RAIDEN
I agree for the most part. If becoming a future boss is in story for Raiden, they should build it up slowly and progressively.


CYRAX
Personally, of the cyborgs, I favor Sektor the most. I used to like Cyrax a lot more, but he seems to have lost something I can't put my finger on. I couldn't really tell you what would "fix" him in my eyes, but if he's to return and take the lead of the Special Forces sub-plot, I can't say I'd have that much against it. I'm not a fan of the Special Forces sub-plot, though.


ERMAC
I agree on Ermac maybe emerging as a protagonist in the future. I don't have that many concrete ideas on what can be done with him, but I can see him becoming sort of the next generation Sub-Zero. Start him out mid-level and have him gradually grow more important to the story.


REIKO
Like Cyrax, I'm not completely against Reiko coming back in the future....but he's not high on my list. Having him try to take control of Outworld, more of a thinking man schemer, could be good...but I'm not that interested. I think I'm still hung up on his neglected ties to Sareena.


FUJIN
I agree on Fujin coming back. And I like your idea of he being more of an antagonistic mentor than the more encouraging Raiden. Because Fujin really need a distinctive personality to prevent him from just becoming a "wind Raiden." Actually, the more I think about it, I really like the idea of Fujin being kind of dickhead mentor.


KENSHI
Kenshi's one of those characters that I like, that I think has a cool personality & story, and I don't deny he has good potential for the future and should be kept around.....but for some reason, I just go blank when trying to think of what he can do. I don't know if I see him as a permanent leader of the good guys, though.


DRAHMIN
Drahmin one of the characters I definitely hope to see come back. I really like his backstory and I think he has good things to offer. I'm most interested in him as a personal foe for Sareena...as I think you probably already know. But I would like to see Drahmin take charge of the Netherealm when Noob Saibot's run his course...whether that happens right after Armageddon or they let it play out for a while.


KIRA
As said, I'm not a fan of the Special Forces, but I do like Kira. I agree that if the Dragon clans retain a presence in the future, Kira should become the central figure. She actually is kind of a combo of the Black & Red clans. Her ambitions and goals are chaos and anarchy, like a Black Dragon...but she's disciplined and calculating like a Red Dragon. What was wrong with her can easily be fixed.


SAREENA
Well, you know how I feel about Sareena.


SONYA BLADE
Fuck her.


KUNG LAO
Kung Lao could've been set up to be the next main hero, but they sabotaged that in Deception. So now, I agree, I think the best choice to take him in the future is to teach the next generation of Shaolin monks.


KITANA/JADE
If they're to continue, I favor option three: the eradication of Edenia. Edenia as a realm has run it's course and it should either live happily ever after or be done away with. It's the other, prettier Earth, and we only really need one Earth. Also, and I've said this elsewhere, a big problem with the Edenia sub-plot is it's become too much about the realm and less about the actual characters. The realm itself holds them down.
And you know something...this just popped into my head right reading you description of Kitana's MK/DC ending......as I think you know, I've been interested in the many parallels Kitana and Sub-Zero share. Now suppose Edenia was destroyed, leaving on a few survivors (or maybe just Kitana herself) left to migrate to Earth....sort of like the Cyromancers being driven to extinction and the few left moving to Earth.

But anyway, between Kitana and Jade, I've grown more interested in Kitana's prospects than Jade's. If Jade's kept around, they need to not only develop her out of Kitana's shadow...but do so in a way that doesn't make her just "another Kitana." And I'm a bit more interested in seeing how Kitana would deal with her life being wrecked a second time.


TAVEN
Not that into Taven. He had a likable personality in Armageddon...but I have zero interest in his future. All the more since I endorse the idea of Edenia being destroyed in Armageddon. Taven doesn't bring anything to the table I'm interested in.


SMOKE
I agree with your thoughts on Smoke. I'm on the fence if he should come back...as he is pretty disposable...but there is a part of me that would like to see him grow into his own characters. I also agree with moving him further away from being a cyborg and more into this ethereal ghost-like being.


TANYA
Tanya is a character I would definitely like back. They should play her up as a schemer...so that whoever goes up against her may be a better fighter, she's just smarter. I like the idea of she maybe becoming a sorceress.


HAVIK
I agree on Havik.


NOOB SAIBOT
I'm on the fence with Noob. I do kind of want to see his storyline carried out...ideally more with Scorpion & Sareena than Sub-Zero, in my opinion...but I also kind of think he should be let go. If they do it right, I wouldn't mind his coming back.


HSU HAO
Not interested in Hsu Hao. I think he served his purpose.

RazorsEdge701Posted: 12/18/2008 03:31 AMStatus ::


Rank ::
Visits::20795
Nationality::United States
RE: My thoughts/ideas Post-Armageddon

ThePredator151 Wrote:

Well that is a whole lot of Fujin. It's gonna take me some time to collect thoughts and responses but for now, let's just say I agree on the costume and moves ideas, but disagree about the crossbow. Everyone needs one straightforward projectile, and a bolt of energy similar to Nightwolf's Spirit Arrow is simply more powerful-looking and interesting in my view than making every one of his moves wind-based.

And regarding personality, I don't think it's appropriate for a god's element to completely dictate how they act and sound. It feels too simple and cliché to do it that way. The gods should be as diverse and complex individuals as the humans are, so Fujin shouldn't necessarily act like the wind any more than Raiden "acts like" lightning or Johnny Cage "acts like" a shadow or Liu Kang acts like a dragon.

P.S. When I called Onaga "decent", I meant in the good/evil sense.

XiahouDun84 Wrote:

SCORPION
To be honest, it doesn't feel right to me to get rid of Quan Chi either. I do have an idea on how to bring him back...sort of.

Basically, I figure that after Armageddon ends, the Elder Gods will have to come down off their high horses and DO something for once, taking steps to make sure it never gets that bad again. Quan Chi is definitly one of the leading causes of inter-realm warfare, so he's one they'd pass judgment on. My idea is, since it's no big deal for him to escape the Netherealm, instead, his final fate should be having his soul trapped inside the Amulet.

There'd be no way to get him back out, so he's gone forever, but at the same time, he could possess or influence the amulet's next bearer, thus remaining part of Mortal Kombat.

SUB-ZERO
The main reason I want to move the Lin Kuei to Outworld is because I feel that Earth has too many factions and hero groups. The Lin Kuei feels redundant and underutilized. He never leads the clan anywhere, he's always leaving them to do things all by himself, and it doesn't make him look like a very good Grandmaster. Immigrating to Outworld isn't a perfect fit, I admit, but Sub-Zero's character is all about legacy, honoring his past and trying to build on it into the future, and really, now that he's restored one part of his past, the Lin Kuei, the Cryomancers seem like a logical next step.

It's either that or have him try to hunt down his real family, his mom and sister...and how the hell could you tie that into the plot of a Mortal Kombat game, especially without seeming redundant after Frost?

CYRAX
I actually like Sektor more than I like Cyrax too, but the fact of the matter is, you can't just ditch the OIA from the storyline. They're one of the few vestiges we have of the idea that Earthrealm is based on the REAL Earth and that there are modern human beings with governments and technology living there.

One of the things I didn't like about your own future storylines was that you had Earth affected by the battle with Blaze, then moved things decades into the future, turning Earth into just another archaic, wartorn realm of magic and strife like Outworld.

I think Earthrealm should be as close to the real world as possible, with the exception that there are people with chi powers living there, protecting it. And those people should be a secret. The public at large shouldn't really be aware of other realms and the magic and Mortal Kombat going on around them. The few events that have happened publicly, like MK3, should be half-remembered like a dream since everyone had their souls stolen the whole time, and the OIA should be like a Men in Black cover-up org.

So that's my thoughts on keeping the Special Forces around, and I explained why I chose Cyrax to represent them. Sektor can always come back in the future, though. You can't kill machinery, just break and rebuild it. In fact, there's probably somewhere interesting you could go with the idea that Sektor has no real need for a body or soul, his entire being is just lines of programming code. Perhaps he has a future as a living virus or something along the lines of Hank Henshaw the Cyborg-Superman, just...without the "I wish I could die" complex.

REIKO
Reiko's "ties" to Sareena consist entirely of the same hair and tattoos and his website bio listing her as an ally. Kia has those traits and was listed as an ally too. Sounds like they're all just fellow Brothers of the Shadow to me. Not that something couldn't be done between the two in the future, especially considering my idea places Reiko in direct opposition to the Lin Kuei.

KENSHI
I kind of think of Kenshi as being in the future what Kung Lao was in MK2-4. He's a very reluctant hero, he almost has to be forced to fight, but once he is, he's always right on the frontlines, aimed straight at the main villain. I suppose the opportunity here is not to "screw it up" again, where Kung Lao failed and sank into obscurity in Deception, Kenshi can instead succeed in stepping up and join Scorpion and Sub-Zero as a main character.

DRAHMIN
I don't know if I see Drahmin and Sareena as rivals as much as you do...but I think that's mostly just me subconsciously not wanting to look like I'm copying everything you've already done. I guess the tricky thing with Drahmin is, I want the Netherealm to be cut off, to prevent any more villains coming back from the dead for a while, which also kind of hampers the ways in which a Netherealm-based character can take part in the plot.

SAREENA
I guess, given her main goal of losing her demon side, the most natural fit for Sareena feels like finding Ashrah's Kriss. After Armageddon, that would put her in direct conflict with the vampires, giving them a reason to return in the future. (though personally, I favor creating new ones over bringing Nitara back. I see her as their Goro and it'd be nice to go the Kintaro/Sheeva route, explore the race's diversity.)

There's also a compelling potential struggle there now that we know wielding Datusha makes one the pawn of more powerful entities, which is something Sareena has an unpleasant history with already. Will she reject the sword, her only chance at humanity? Will she be caught up in it like Ashrah was? Is it even really a good idea to make the two characters even more similar than they already are? Or maybe that's the point, in having them both face the same conflict, with one turning left where the other turned right, we show how they're different and Sareena is a more developed character who thinks for herself.

SONYA
I'm not a fan of her's either, but if MKvsDC has taught me anything, it's that she does have too many fans to get rid of the character just yet. Besides, I'm reluctant to ditch her before having a chance to pit her and Kira against each other as her "evil opposite". My ideas for "How Armageddon ended" include Sonya feeling betrayed by her MK3 ally Kabal returning to the Black Dragon, and killing him, giving Kira reason for a major grudge.

I feel like an opportunity exists as a result of Armageddon to actually explore and grow the character. Something can be made of the number of allies she's seen die or turn against her, since the core of Sonya's character has always been how emotionally walled off and simultaneously overprotective of her friends she is. That would probably play a lot into her decision to retire from field work and act as Cyrax's dispatcher - she's mentally detatching herself from her life/the job.

KITANA/JADE/TAVEN
I'm reluctant to outright destroy Edenia because my idea of Raiden's outrage at Argus/Taven/Edenia for causing Armageddon and being, of all things, rewarded by the Elder Gods for it, is growing on me more and more all the time.

Of course, there's no reason both can't happen, one as the result of the other.

TANYA
The idea of turning her into a sorcerer appeals to me the more I think about it. Going back to my Quan Chi idea, maybe she should be the next character to get their hands on the amulet.

HSU HAO
The idea of actually getting to watch a character slowly turn into an Oni over the course of two or three games just strikes me as something interesting, something we haven't seen before. It's certainly a layer of complexity that past dumb henchman characters like Baraka never got. I suppose it's similar to Reptile's devolution, but that was pretty sudden and actually damaged the character, this is a growth and improvement. Using a pre-existing character to depict the change makes the process interesting because we then actually know what he was like as a human, we have before-and-after versions to compare, which we wouldn't have if the same idea were applied to a new character.

MiNeOuTPosted: 12/18/2008 09:16 PMStatus ::


Rank ::
Visits::2178
Nationality::Canada
RE: My thoughts/ideas Post-Armageddon

ThePredator151 Wrote:



For his design, I like the ponytail thing, and I think that if there was supposed to be a god with a cape, it probably should have been Fujin instead of Raiden. Although yea, it works for Raiden too. I don't dislike either of Fujins past costume designs, but I don't think they play to a theme very well either.



Hm....I think his design is too passive. It doesn't say "wind god", it only says "character". Which is kinda weird because wind IS quite passive unless it's being absolutely violent at the time. I think they should go with prominent round designing with him, straights in his design should probably be the passive attributes, and absolutely no sharp or really bold attributes to the character.



I'd probably take this design and re-imagine it with a familiar, but different color scheme.



What about some kind of Mortal Kombat concoction of a Mythological Wind God// Japanese warrior// with Elf-like conceits here or there, but just not so grand? Lol idk. Something more appealing to this theme of wind GOD, that doesn't take him far at all away from his MK4 design. If this idea seems too grand, then it's not what I meant.

I agree, Fujin's design definitely needs to be worked on. Actually there was this drawing I saw of Fujin on this site a while back. I liked the design a lot, it "was" a little un-MK-ish, but it is still great. I wouldn't mind if he looked something along the lines of this in MK9.


ThePredator151Posted: 12/18/2008 11:56 PMStatus ::


Rank ::
Visits::1547
Nationality::United States
RE: My thoughts/ideas Post-Armageddon

MiNeOuT Wrote:
I agree, Fujin's design definitely needs to be worked on. Actually there was this drawing I saw of Fujin on this site a while back. I liked the design a lot, it "was" a little un-MK-ish, but it is still great. I wouldn't mind if he looked something along the lines of this in MK9.





Haha! Streamline that design a bit, and that's right about the perfect medium between the two pictures I posted, and ultimately, is what I was talking about.

So that's fantastic that you found that.

Perk is how the artist played the bow and arrow in that picture. Cuz like I mentioned earlier, I am not a fan of that weapon for that character. Guess it's one of those situations that'll take them to do something really cool with it in order to make me like it. *shrugs* I'm usually pretty set once I conclude I like or dislike something.

You know what I was thinking about for a linear projectile for Fujin just this second?

Blow Darts.

lol

Property could be a normal light damage projectile, could be a stun, hell, it could even paralyze the opponent for a second. idk, I'm just tootin at this point.

The Ultimate Mortal Kombat Experience
- Lead Graphic Designer - Mortal Kombat Online -

:G-play :Story :F-Design :Cutout :Get Sig :Raiden :Fans [1] [2] :#LegendaryArts
RazorsEdge701Posted: 12/19/2008 01:28 AMStatus ::


Rank ::
Visits::20795
Nationality::United States
RE: My thoughts/ideas Post-Armageddon

Hmm...some incredible ideas in that drawing, but the colors and armor make him look a little too much like Raiden, frankly.

Personally I favor something along the lines of this Jax007 design, in the MK4 colors of black and teal with a gold belt. Something about the extremely baggy pants just says "wind god" to me, like they're filled with air.

(His Sektor there is brilliant too, BTW)

MiNeOuTPosted: 12/19/2008 01:37 AMStatus ::


Rank ::
Visits::2178
Nationality::Canada
RE: My thoughts/ideas Post-Armageddon

RazorsEdge701 Wrote:
Hmm...some incredible ideas in that drawing, but the colors and armor make him look a little too much like Raiden, frankly.
(His Sektor there is brilliant too, BTW)

...in the MK4 colors of black and teal with a gold belt...


This was actually drawn before Deception, so it wasn't intended to look like dark Raiden.

And lol, you just mentioned the same colors used in the image that
you said looked too much like Raiden.

RazorsEdge701 Wrote:

Personally I favor something along the lines of this Jax007 design, in the MK4 colors of black and teal with a gold belt. Something about the extremely baggy pants just says "wind god" to me, like they're filled with air.



(His Sektor there is brilliant too, BTW)


That's a great looking basic design. However, I think his pants are just a little bit too baggy. Still though, it's great. I love how the metal seal on his chest is connected to the corners of his clothing.

RazorsEdge701Posted: 12/19/2008 01:49 AMStatus ::


Rank ::
Visits::20795
Nationality::United States
RE: My thoughts/ideas Post-Armageddon

MiNeOuT Wrote:
And lol, you just mentioned the same colors used in the image that
you said looked too much like Raiden.


I mainly meant there's too much white and silver in it...and the hat doesn't help.

Also, the more I think about it, the more I realize it's not a bad idea to keep a little red in his design, just to break up the monotony...sorta the way Raiden's design had the slight amounts of yellow in MK2 and 4.

Anyway, I definitely believe Fujin's costumes, at least his primaries, should consist entirely of loose fitting, billowing clothes and bare flesh, with no armor at all, or at least as little as possible. For whatever reason, that's what I picture when I think "god of wind". Jax007 really nailed it for me.

RoninDrakePosted: 12/19/2008 07:52 PMStatus ::


Rank ::
Visits::2447
Nationality::United States
RE: My thoughts/ideas Post-Armageddon

Ya know, I like most of your ideas but there are a few places I might take issue. Nothing serious, and most of what I have to say is praise, but I'm gonna try and go through everything.

Scorpion: You touch on something with your bit on Scorpion, saying that he was never supposed to be a full-on villain. And I think that that has a little something to do with how this character fell so far. It has to do with how Boon originally imagined the spectre and how he's always listed as neutral. Boon liked the idea of a character who was not a villain, but by no means a hero. However, without choosing sides he could never truly be involved in the story, and without changing his goal (also part of his original imagining) he couldn't even grow. Your idea of seeking honor and making amends for his actions allows him to choose a side and actually grow as a character, so kudos on that. Now all we need is for someone to actually implement it.

Sub-Zero: Now, you mention him taking the Lin Kuei and moving them into Outworld so he can better explore his cryomancer roots. I find a few problems with this, but I can see your reasoning. First off, I think a few members of the clan might take issue with moving to another dimension, especially since I don't think too many of them share his ancestry, as noted by Frost's freezing powers being a rarity as I recall. The next thing is that I don't think it's entirely necessary for him to take his entire clan with him on his own journey of self discovery. I mean, we'll always remember that he is a member of the Lin Kuei, but I don't think he should be so whole-heartedly tied to the group like that, especially given the problems I've heard with all the factions and even if he's the grandmaster of the clan. Simply put, I think that if he's going to look for answers regarding his ancestry, he's better off doing so on his own than bringing all of his disciples with him.

Raiden: The idea of the thunder god challenging another realm on behalf of Earth is interesting, and it does have the benefit of an actual tournament, but I'm not sure he has the authority. I distinctly remember him giving up the protector god status to Fujin. Did he automatically get his old job back once he gave up being an elder god? Or even after the events of Deception? As for the rest of it, well I think the idea of "playing both ends against the middle" implies doesn't care too much for either side. Even if he manipulated the earthrealm heroes, I don't think he'd be looking to get rid of them unless they outright defied his current state of mind. Just a thought.

Cyrax: Sonya getting a desk job and Jax biting the big one sounds like the best for both of them. Since the OIA needs representation, and Cyrax is the only other member we're aware of, Mustard makes sense to return in that role. Unfortunately, I don't have much to say about Cyrax. I mean, I think the big rivalry they tried developing in Unchained and Armageddon was OIA and the Tekunin, and Cyrax does have a history with Sektor, but that seems a bit cliche to have the two cyborgs in an automatic rivalry. That and the yellow guy as yet does not have any experience with the Red/Black Dragons, who still cause trouble for those guys, right? I don't know, I just think they'd have to build up Cyrax from the start of the game for me to really get behind him.

Ermac: Hmm, Ermac, hero of Outworld. Well, you don't actually offer any storyline ideas, but I could see him as the protagonist of an Outworld subplot that develops into the main storyline over a game or two.

Reiko: I agree on the point of having a villain who knows when to cut his losses and make a run for it, because that serves for a better explanation to their survival than, say, creating and using a clone when two powerful sorcerers come and supposedly kill you. Again, I think he would need to be built up for me to like the execution. Build him up with Ermac, but I don't think Sub-Zero should get involved in his story.

Fujin: Yes, the main thing to do is separate this god from that god. We need different personalities and methods of action, which would help if we had individual voice actors for all that stuff. Give him his own style and the rest should follow. I don't think he needs the crossbow, as I'd like to believe that a god is powerful enough so as to not need one. Sure, Raiden had his staff, but... Well, I think a weapon for a god is more symbolic than anything else, and I just can't see a crossbow symbolizing much. Also, before he can berate any of his charges, he has to actually call them up himself, which we haven't seen him do yet. He needs to get on that.

Kenshi: I really liked Kenshi. He was my favorite character out of Deadly Alliance. I like that he's more malleable than some other characters. In Deception when his sword reclaimed the souls of his ancestors and he realized Shang Tsung was dead, he thought "Dammit, I wanted to do that... Well, I guess now I move on." I like that he thinks of the eternal battle between good and evil as pointless and neverending, as stated in his Armageddon bio. I like that Johnny Cage was trying to be serious and take the role of the stalwart hero and lead the forces of light before Kenshi came and led them into battle, which touches on my ideas for Cage. Basically, what I think needs to happen next is someone needs to show Kenshi that he can't always do it on his own, a la Sub-Zero saving him in Deception, and get him to join the forces of light of his own accord and without too much pressure from his ancestors.

Drahmin: I also liked the oni. I think that there's a lot that can be explored with him. I'd like to learn a thing or two about his past as a warlord (or what the hell happened in his DA ending). I'd dipute your call for him to rule the Netherrealm. It would take something big to get Shinnok out of the picture and I don't think Drahmin is the character to do that. I liked another idea I heard of Noob trying to take control of the hell domain, but I can see his ambitions leading him elsewhere. In any case, possibly in conjunction with you Hsu Hao idea, I don't think ruling the Netherrealm is the place to go for him, but there are plenty of other interesting opportunities for him. (P.S.: When I first read his bio and heard about the "Face of Kun-Lo", I remember thinking it was a hint that this was the Great Kung Lao, due to the similarity of the name. If it's in no way related, they should have come up with a more distinct name. /tangent)

Kira: I really like your idea of using her as a bridge between the new Black Dragon and the original Red Dragon clans. Since I imagine Daegon having other pursuits or being dead, she could probably go straight after Mavado and finish him off (another homage to Kabal) before taking control. It'd be good to have a female villain who isn't so just because they're a backstabber or a mutant. I never really minded the "copycat" thing until I heard people start to gripe about it, but I can see where it comes from. The simple thing to do is to find something that gives her her own special touch on the playing field.

Sareena: Yes, much has already been said about the character and it would be nice to play up the internal good-vs-evil bit. I do disagree on the bit about wielding the Datusha, at least right away, since first she'd have to pry it out of Ashrah cold dead hands. If they're going to do that, then they'd have to play up a rivalry between the two first. Like have Ashrah return and be on the hunt for the vampires, but mention that she senses another trace of evil following her. Then you could follow with the alternative struggle of "Do I let this thing control me so I can remove my demonic taint, or do I find my own path" but only after.

Sonya: I'm not as much for Sonya returning after giving up field duty, but I can see the appeal from how you describe her emotional distance and such. If anything, I would use Jax's death and everything as an excuse to expand the OIA and bring in new members. This would give us a few new stories to delve into and potentially have a new female that might have been trained by the old heroine, though by no means give her the same moves.

Kung Lao: I liked how they portrayed his being thrust into the role of hero in DA, but Deception proved he wasn't ready for it. Let him continue on as the teacher at the White Lotus temple. Maybe pass the hat down to someone else.

Kitana/Jade: The old Edenian assassins would need to have something drastic done for me to really be interested. I'm not sure how much I like any of your ideas, though with a modification, I could get behind the Edenia destroyed scenario. Perhaps the events of Armageddon couldn't be entirely stopped, but they could be contained. Edenia as a whole isn't destroyed, but there's mostly just a lot of rubble there now. Then we have community forced to rebuild everything and they are vulnerable to events like your second scenario. Then again, nowhere in my idea are either of the two characters mentioned, so I guess I just don't see too much for them.

Taven: I agree that something should be done with Taven in the story to come. Don't completely throw him away, but don't make him into a main protagonist again. I don't have too many ideas for him, but at least something should be done.

Smoke: It sounds good to me to go with the idea of how he is becoming less and less human, transforming into an ethereal mist, but I don't think he should be haunting Sub-Zero in anything more than the metaphorical sense. Your ideas of how he reacts to that transformation are good though. The question I would like to see brought up, however, is whether or not he is, technically, still alive. I don't think he ever actually died, but you try finding a pulse in the smoke cloud. For that matter, try killing the smoke cloud. With everything that's been done to him, has he lost his soul to his mechanization... and his mortality to his demonic transformation? Losing the automaton parts, is good for distinction in the cast, so yes on that as well.

Tanya: I can see using Tanya again in the stories, so long as they change her modus operandi away from costantly stabbing everybody in the back. Have somebody she works with implement a safeguard to the tune of, "If you betray me, I WILL kill you." Becoming a sorceress would be interesting and help to give her more options story wise. Unfortunately, I can't see her moving much further up the evil hierarchy without a little assistance down the line.

Havik: Ah, yes. How can you not love a character who trains someone how to fight by trying to kill them? There are just so many ways to show off the way the Cleric of Chaos works. He'd join the losing team in a fight just to get them back on track to winning... and then join the other team and help them. There's almost no way to run out of ideas for him.

Noob Saibot: I briefly mentioned Noob earlier in this great big wall-o-text, but there's more to it. He definitely shouldn't go away forever, since technically he doesn't have the problem of age that most other characters... should. There are plenty of things to do with him, but I'd have to think for a moment before I came up with something that caught the attention of both Scorpion and Sub-Zero, ignoring his brother's uncanny sense and ability to find the wraith (How exactly did he spontaneously end up in the Netherrealm at the end of Deception, anyway?). Again, I liked the idea of him taking over Hell, but his ambitions allow him to travel outside of its domain. There's a lot I'd be happy with for him.

Hsu Hao: Now I don't have the same problem with this that some of the others might have. I think its a great chance for character development that might have been sorely lacking as of late. The problem that I do have is that, as I recall, it took a good while before Drahmin gave into his torment and allowed himself to become an oni. I'd say you could speed up the process, but I thought it was a century or more. Other than that, go ahead and let him devolve into the monster he may or may not have been meant to be.

And that is all I have for now. My fingers are tired after all that. Hopefully they'll be rested in time for a response.

RazorsEdge701Posted: 12/20/2008 01:53 AMStatus ::


Rank ::
Visits::20795
Nationality::United States
RE: My thoughts/ideas Post-Armageddon

I understand your concerns and I'll try to address the ones that stick out foremost to me.

Sub-Zero - as I said before, the problem I have with Subbie is he's been very irresponsible as leader of the Lin Kuei. He just up and left in DA and didn't return until after Deception. Who was running the clan during all that time? Did they do anything at all? The Lin Kuei's job right now is supposed to be protecting Earthrealm, but when have they as a group ever actually done so? It's always Subbie by himself!

So that's why I have him take the clan with him. So they actually do something for once and so he looks like a real leader. I'd probably also create a new character who's a member of the Lin Kuei, to represent the rest of the clan. And this character wouldn't have ice powers of course, and would probably even agree with you, that Outworld isn't their home and they don't belong there.

Fujin - Like I said to Predator, I don't see the crossbow as a "weapon", I think it should be an energy projectile, like Nightwolf's bow.

Drahmin - Your concern about him taking over Netherealm is that first, he'd have to usurp Shinnok. Thing about that is, Shinnok was the main villain of Armageddon. He almost caused the destruction of the entire universe. There's no way in hell the Elder Gods would just let him walk away from that unpunished. I haven't figured out the specifics yet, but my story has Shinnok no longer being in the Netherealm, they found some inescapable empty void to imprison him in or destroyed him somehow.

Sareena - Ashrah doesn't have enough character to deserve to survive Armageddon. In my story, she's very much dead and Datusha's lost somewhere in the wreckage of Edenia.

RoninDrakePosted: 12/20/2008 02:11 AMStatus ::


Rank ::
Visits::2447
Nationality::United States
RE: My thoughts/ideas Post-Armageddon

Sub-Zero: I can see your point on the Lin Kuei doing nothing when Subby was trying to get them to save the world. I'm still a little curious as to how moving somewhere else makes them do something, especially in regards to saving earth. I'm not so sure how fans would respond to another Lin Kuei member on the roster, after the original Sub-Zero, Cyrax, Sektor, Smoke, and most recently Frost, especially given the new member would be brought up as a dissenter in the ranks from the very beginning, based on that story idea. I don't know. Could provide some good character development from the start if done right and provided he doesn't stage a coups or try to kill anybody right off the bat.

Fujin: Hmm, missed the part of the energy bow. If it's ethereal, it works I suppose.

Drahmin: Your answer to my problem in removing Shinnok is to send him to a surrogate "Phantom Zone"? I thought we just got rid of the influence from DC. Alright, assuming Drahmin did manage to win the all out brawl that would ensue for the throne of the Netherrealm, how would you fit your plans for Hsu Hao into that dynamic?

Sareena: Point taken on Ashrah, but I still think her story should "finish" in some sense before giving up the Datusha, even if it is getting killed by Sareena or some of the vampires. Which brings up the question of where someone who is from hell goes to when they die. Hmm... do we have a concrete answer to that?

RazorsEdge701Posted: 12/20/2008 02:23 AMStatus ::


Rank ::
Visits::20795
Nationality::United States
RE: My thoughts/ideas Post-Armageddon

Y'know, "The Phantom Zone" is just what Kryptonians call Limbo/Purgatory. So they don't own the concept, religion came up with it first.

RoninDrake Wrote:
Which brings up the question of where someone who is from hell goes to when they die. Hmm... do we have a concrete answer to that?

They just go back.

When Shinnok kills Sareena in MKM, she just loses her human form and lands in the "5th plane", which is a particularly nasty section of the Netherealm.

Also, Drahmin and Moloch were living in the basement of Shang's palace, which was blown up by Raiden. Next time we see them, they're back in Hell, fighting Taven in MKA Konquest.

As for how Drahmin and Hsu Hao end up a team, well...that's one of those things I'm still working on, along with giving Ermac something to do, coming up with new characters, etc. None of this stuff will really be solid until I come up with an actual MK9 plot and write character bios.

Obviously I'm not that far yet, but that's why I made the topic, to acquire some inspiration and let people see my behind-the-scenes thought process.

First things first though, I'm writing up a "How Armageddon Ended/who died and how" list. That's where you'll see your "appropriate finish" to the stories of characters like Ashrah. The reason it's taking so long is I'm also trying to incorporate bios into it for the characters who didn't get them.

HenshinSlayer000Posted: 12/21/2008 10:57 PMStatus ::


Rank ::
Visits::282
RE: My thoughts/ideas Post-Armageddon

Old Characters

Liu Kang (Return as human)
Smoke (Return as human)
Kitana
Sonya
Sub-Zero
Scorpion
Kenshi
Hotaru
Dairou
Havik
Kabal (Good guy again)
Kobra
Sektor
Rain (Good Guy)
Reptile (Zaterra saved and now good guy)
Bo'Rai Cho
Fujin (New Protector)
Raiden (Evil)
Reiko (New Emperor of Outworld)
Jade
Mileena
Baraka
Taven

New Characters

New Character (Time-traveler)
New Character (Aquatic warrior and rival to Zaterra)
Suijin (Water Goddess)
New Character (Werewolf/Lycan)
New Character (Vampire)
New Character
New Character
New Character
New Character
New Character
New Character

Boss (Golem)

Page of 2
    
© 1998-2017 Mortal Kombat Online. All rights reserved. Read our Privacy Policy.
Mortal Kombat, the dragon logo and all character names are trademarks and copyright of Warner Bros. Entertainment Inc.