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Mortal Kombat X

Discussing Mortal Kombat X and all things Kontemporary to it.
Page of 2

EagleClaw4Posted: 09/25/2007 01:12 AMStatus ::


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What I would/would not like to see in the next MK

Ok. So here are some of my ideas as far as what I would and would not like to see in the game.



Pits/Deathtraps: I would like to see pits and deathtraps return. Except, here's the system I think should be used. Take a look at the following diagram. By the way I meant to put 3 or 4 feet in that image.

Free Image Hosting at www.ImageShack.us

This picture shows 2 platforms. One above the other. The red line indicates a death trap and the yellow line indicates a warning that there is another platform below you, just like in the mk games. Except in my system, you would not see those lines in the game when you are fighting. ( just so you know, I drew this picture with deathtraps in mind, so if it was pits we were talking about then the red line could be all around that circle instead) You may be asking, " Well how would you know where the deathtraps or pits are without the red indicator?" Well the answer is you wouldn't know by the red indicator, but instead you would have to look at the enviorment when your fighting or just observing someone play and look to see if there are any things in the enviorment that look like death traps. This adds mystery to the game as well. Like how mk2 did when you thought you could knock someone on a hook in the Dead Pool or feed them to a tree in the Living Forest.

Like if you see some meat grinders from the Slaughterhouse stage in deception, thats a clue to the fact that you can get thrown in there. Also, you can only be knocked into a pit/deathtrap once you have defeated your opponent 2 rounds. This makes the game alot more realistic, instead of being able to do it during a round and then come back and fight for a second.

Now I realize that if you have beaten your opponent twice already and you are in a arena with 2 platforms and are still on the top platform when its time to finish them off, you are probably wondering "Wait, I'm still on the top level. I have to be on the bottom level if I want to knock him/her into a death trap...WTF?" Well the thing about this, is, you would not be able to do it unless you were on the second platform. I know this kind of sucks but I can't really see a way to work around this if you have multi-tierd stages (unless you have a suggestion on how to get around this). Plus I feel that this adds a sense of reward to the game because you were able to get close enough to knock him in the trap. This could probably work easier if your just fighting on one platform where the pit or death trap is, ( you would have to be facing the direction of the deathtrap though) so you could then just do a running jump kick and make your opponent go flying into the trap or pit.



Realism/Blood/Fatalities: As far as fatalities go, they should be more realistic as well. So when it comes to weapons: with swords and sometimes knives, you should be able to sever fingers, hands, sections of arms, toes, feet, sections of legs, heads, torso etc. in various fashions. As well as slit your opponents throat and stab them in the core areas of the body, like chest, back, stomach, as well as parts of the head, neck and top of shoulders. If the weapon is used more for stabbing like a fork or a spear then thrust those core areas I was talking about. Finally if its a club type weapon then just beat them or choke them to death lol. Also bladed and pointed weapons should dig out organs from the body. Hands can be used also to rip out organs. If we are talking using your bare hands, then, eye gouging, neck, limb and back breaking are a must There should be about 3 fatalities a person and it would be like the old mk's where you are watching a sequence play out.

More realistic looking blood like in this video of The Crossing. Wait for the video to load. It takes a while.

I wish they would also do away with pop up attacks, juggling your opponent in the air and air kombat like in MKA. I feel these features have always make MK feel heavily unreal.

Weapon Cosmetics The types of cosmetics I don't want to see are the colored effects weapons emit, when you swing them, like in this videoSee here. I mean sparks when bladed weapons clash would be cool, but that's about it.

Special Powers/Moves: Even though I would like MK to be as real as possible, it would still be nice to see special powers and moves in the game, like Sub Zero's freeze move. I feel it's a trademark of the game.

Realms The one thing I didn't like about the newer Mk's is the whole realms thing. It's based too much in fantasy. Keep it simple and grounded.

DLC: Downloadable content is a must!

Online fighting: is a must!

Stage and Character Themes: Keep some of the oriental themes in the game by making some stages and characters look like they are in/from Asia, like they have done in past games.

Audio/Visual Effects: Dripping sweat and blood. Sounds of becoming tired as the fight progresses. Blood should not come out of the opponent every time he/she is hit, unless it is with a sharp weapon. Put in bruising and torn clothes.

Visual Features/Mechanics: No cutting off limbs during a fight and then keep the fight going. No instant kills like in Guilty Gear. Also what about if the player holds his wounds while he is in a neutral stance?

Victory Poses: I wouldn't like to see anymore of these. It's just weird. Especially after you kill your opponent.

Weapon Variations: Someone mentioned that in Armageddon, alot of the weapons are swords. There is a hell of alot more weapons out there to choose from: like a monks spade, tiger fork, halberd, three section staff, butterfly swords. You get the idea.

Authenticity: Use authentic fighting styles. Check out some of the moves Kabal should have used with his hookswords here. It would have been so bad ass to see him link his swords together and swing them around as a long ranged attack. Also, only some characters should use weapons all the time and if they have a free hand open they can punch as well as kick. Other characters should just be empty handed characters. That way this pleases both players who like to use weapons as well as ones who don't.

EagleClaw4Posted: 09/25/2007 06:42 AMStatus ::


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RE: What I would/would not like to see in the next MK

I moved the stuff I had to say in this post, to my first post.

lastfighter89Posted: 09/25/2007 08:13 AMStatus ::


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RE: What I would/would not like to see in the next MK

if we really talk abvout realism,death trap should not exist.
try to image this scene:
you're normally walking in the arena,you do not see a deathtrap and trust accidentally into it.
is it funny?
but this could be realistic.

really boys,realims sucks.
look at tekken or virtua fighter,they aren't realistical at all.
they are the most realistical games,but aren't realistical.
and they are boring as hell.
also Gears of war,i like the dark style and similar things,but we really need a very serious game?a realistic game?

if the game is realistic,then we should have :less blood,less gore and less fun.

this is my philosophy,sorry for going against popular will.

EagleClaw4Posted: 09/25/2007 09:44 PMStatus ::


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RE: What I would/would not like to see in the next MK

I would really like to hear some more feedback from you guys

bleedPosted: 09/25/2007 11:10 PMStatus ::


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RE: What I would/would not like to see in the next MK

1 = I like the death traps and all, just have them be hard to toss people in to it. Weak moves like a jab would not do it, you could have a juggle escape, maybe a resistance against attacks when near them, so the fighters try extra hard to keep their balance and not get tossed in to one.

2 = I'd like the fatalities to be fantastic, but more realistic looking at the same time. Like, you could use the ones from the previous games, and change the way they are done to look less goofy.

3 = I agree on the realistic blood. A bloody game like MK should have great blood effects, with splattering on the walls etc. Their clothes and weapons could get bloody also.

4 = They could get rid of your standard juggles that go over 1 or 2 hits, not necessarily pop ups. Also get rid of wall bounce juggles, the opponent should slam in to the wall, not bounce next to it.

The combat system could be made to look less like the cliché video game style, and lean more towards a fast paced kung fu movie. Think Storm Riders, Jet li, Jackie Chan, MKD intro....

You could have stun combos, collapse combos, ground combos, throw combos, reversals in to combos, etc.... You don't need the common volley ball juggles to have a fun fighting game. 1 or 2 hits in the air max would be fine.

5 = Just some motion blur, or like a heat distortion would be fine for weapon effects + sparks on contact.

6 = Special powers are fine, but I'd like for them to be more special looking. Like what you would see in a movie, or an anime. How the powers look in the MK intro movies would be great.

7= I don't care for the story much either, but it is one of the most important things in MK, so it should be well made. I don't mind the fantasy elements.

8 = The only create a ______ I'd keep is the fatalities. They should be made special for every character, just like the combos. Have old style fatalities added to some basic moves, but they can be altered at will in sick looking ways. Every move has to look bad ass though, no stupid stuff like the KAF in MKA. I'm thinking something more like the throw chains King has in Tekken, and the kill moves in God of war.

The kills should be done during a match though, not after with the opponent just standing there.

For this to work, I'd make the kills be like super moves that either can't be done too often, are very hard to pull off, or are easy to escape.

Maybe, instead of the normal dizzy stance at the end, it could be that the opponent tries to get up and fight but can't , or falls down again, or they could be on the floor struggling etc. You would take advantage of this and go finish them.

It would be more like what you'd see in a movie.

9 = They really should hire some high level players of many types of fighting games. Hire some fight choreographers and experienced martial artists or stunt men...

They could do the animations free hand too, with a program called Endorphin. It uses dynamics to make animations more realistic. It was used for the newer Tekken games. The animations are very good and stylish / dynamic.

10 = Online fighting should stay, and with some special servers to improve performance.

11 = The Asian theme is good, I'd keep this and the other stages MK has. I like their style, but they could be made a lot better. They are pretty plain looking after playing a game like Soul Calibur 3, etc.

12 = Some interaction for special match ups would be nice, talking or a pre fight.... Something like the fights in Shenmue maybe.

13 = Sweating, bleeding, battle damage in general would be nice. Fight Night R3 has some of these effects, Tao Feng too.

14 = I agree, have something that makes more sense, than the player doing a kung fu stance after they beat the opponent. Imagine someone doing that in a movie or for real. Something more realistic would be fine, like what you see in real fights. It could depend on if there are spectators or not also. You wouldn't be showing off to the crowd if there is nobody there...

15 = A greater variety in weapons would be great to have.

16 = More authentic fighting styles would be good, just don't go too real with everything. Have lots of moves and combinations to work with.

17 = I'd also like for the characters too keep and improve their fighting styles from one game to the next. Having every character do different moves, no straight up copy and paste like in the latest MK games.


EagleClaw4Posted: 09/26/2007 02:07 AMStatus ::


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RE: What I would/would not like to see in the next MK

Hell yeah!!!! Now that's a post! You rock bleed! It really is all about the details, isn't it?

Im going to question/comment on some of the things you replied to.

So are you saying it would be ok for the player to get knocked into a deathtrap during a round and then come back for a second? It just feels to fake for me to have them come back. But I do like the mechanics behind the scheme of your idea that plays into getting thrown into one. As I can see this has its roots in balancing issues. I'm particularly interseted in what you though about my dearth trap system though. You also mentioned it would be ok if they brought back kreate a fatality but without the stupid looking stuff you see in Armageddon. I totally agree. It looks pretty dumb to see your character get his arm ripped off like nothing than get hit by it and have him spin around. I also didn't really like that some of the kill moves were just normal moves: like a kneee to the face, kick to the stomach, etc.

Yeah, the only reason I wanted for fatalities to be done at the very end is so it gives the player a feeling of resolution, and if they can be done during a round...well then they could come back for another. Thats something I wouldn't really like to see. Lol, I know I'm pretty obsessed with the reality factor but I think it should be done realistically this time around as it would be a first for the MK series and fighting games as a whole. Oh yeah, I forgot to mention getting blood on one another as well as on walls. Also good call on having your opponent go to the floor and then trying to get up again and then finishing him off.


Iv'e seen posts on here that say you want to work on a fighting game someday. I really hope that turns out to be a reality for you and you are in a position to decide alot of what gets put into that game. I too would like to make a fighting game in my lifetime, that is if I get my art skills to be really good, and a company hires me. Haha, well later bro.


ThePredator151Posted: 09/26/2007 03:46 PMStatus ::


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RE: What I would/would not like to see in the next MK

EagleClaw4 Wrote:


1. Death Traps: I am not a fan of deathtraps unless they are far apart and in between. Maybe a pit, one arena where something eats you, and one arena where you have a slim chance to get away from the threat. O.k. maybe even one more like the cliff arena, that one is pretty challenging when you fight a worthy opponent..

All the other shit is just annoying to me. No, I don't want an indicator there EVER again, it's a little too inviting, and its too easy a scape-way imo. Git rid of all the other crap. I want to beat the hell out of someone, not sit up here, and strategies on how to "get the guy in the the trap". Whether it's opportunity based or not. lol

2. Fatalities: "More realistic" aint really the case I feel because, the way they build the graphics up should take care of "reality" as much as we need it to be anyway. More realistic suggest that we need to have characters that are "real people" get killed in very real ways. Nu uh, that shit could potentially be traumatizing to the player that's "not supposed to have the game".

To describe this, we need to look at some different words.

a. innovative: Boon has voiced that memory hinders ideas for Mk. Well, now you have the memory. Every character should be absolutely distinguishable, and not one should have "plain" fatalities.

b. sinister: Everybody has a dark side right? ESPECIALLY in Mk.

c. fantastic: we have mythological gods, wizards, necromancers, and chi // ki masters in this game...When are they gonna show us what is possible with all that power? I mean sure, we get a taste, but "unleash the dragon" already.

d. violent: 6million ways to die right? How do you violate a living body in year 2010? Shoot it, Cut it, Freeze it, Burn it, Crush it, Blow it up, Melt it, Corrode it...ect

e. Dreadful//intrusive: THAT would be fucked up if it really happen to YOU.

Basically, I think they might consider a survey of peoples worst death situations....and capitolize on it during the fatality situation.

3. Body Effects: Agreed. Except for, your video doesn't exactly capture my interpretation of "realistic blood", sweat, tears, kick dust, and the like...

That just happens to be the case here though.

4. Pop-ups:I only request that pop-up attacks look like it would really send you flying in the air. I don't really want them gone per say. Li Meis' special move where she kicks the shit out of you is an example....That, and the traditional Mortal Kombat upper cut.

Pop-ups, or "send you flying away" moves should have alot of that hay maker, or centrifugal force look to them.

Um...I actually do agree about the "volley ball" thing though(now that I think about it)...that's quite ridiculous. That, and staying suspended in the air "for-ever". Those can go for the most part.

5. Weapon Effects: I think this stuff should be specific to either characters....like say, Kenshi with the spiritual sword, or to power moves. I don't think they should always be slow moves either. I think these kinds of effects could trigger an emotion in the player. Like: "Whew! You just tried to kill me!", or: "You just tried to take my arm off!"....ect ect..

6. Special Powers: Oh come-on (lol). They are a necessity on Mortal Kombat. Dude, they gotta be there.

The developers just need to exercise that creative muscle and not make 1000 fire special moves again.

I mean, just the elements alone have SO many possibilities it's stupid. Click my sig for examples of earth. And too, I feel like all these characters are being portrayed as "best of the best".....what for? What can they do that I can't get to myself? (intense training?....super meditating? lol, nooOOoo)

That's where special powers come in at. Saying that, I'd want to see each character with somewhere in between 5-10 special moves. Some of them harder to perform than others....but they should be there no question, and good amount of them per character at that.

"Why are they exceptional besides character description?....What can they do?"

7. Realms: I think we need them. We need to go different places and see different things in Mortal Kombat. I just think they need to be substantial in order to "go there".

YES, Focus On Story...ALOT. How else did it come to be that we fight there? Who is from around that area that we're fighting there.

Hell man, Story beats out game-play in Mortal Kombat in alot of cases I've seen. It's also an interesting insight into a favorite character.

8. K-A-__: I loved KaK, it was//is the only reason I still pick the game up now...that and to take it online.

I think all the Kreate a whatever stuff are excellent ideas...it just depends on which game you put them in, and how creative us players can be with what's preset in the game.

I love it though.

9. Hire Specialist: HeLl YeS!

10. Online: Yep...Keep improving the experience though. Use more than one server or whatever..ect..

11. Themes: Yea. People like things that ate foreign to them. Keep influences from the orient in the game. It's part of what keeps selling the game anyway.

12. Speech: I disagree..at least not every character at that space in the game.

It's not that kind of game, overall. One or two characters that "talk shit" is fine. It also distinguishes that character.

Now, every character should have their own voice though. They should talk out their own bio, they might say something right after you select them, or on the vs screen(which needs to start being animated btw)...or whatever. Every character needs voice improvement.

13. Liquids // Sound Effects:

a. Sweat splatters for jabs and small hits early in the match and progress in "how much" sweat splatters during the match.

This applies for kick dust too, it should be a medium or hard hit only though.

b. Bruising and Blood come out after repetitive abuse to one area of the body, for heavy hits, or crucial damage. We should feel it. Go "all blood" when close to demise or towards the end of the match.

c. I think that not being able to use a limb during the match would be an adequate way of adding a strategy element to MK. I think it should have a definite limiter on it though. Like you can only take a guys hand or at most an arm before fatality time is apparent. Cuz you really can't fight with much else. Get one of your feet or legs cut off and its a done deal.

What about pressure points and blocking chi? There's a contortionist in Avatar: Last Airbender named: "Ty Lee" 1:25sec in, that can do exactly what I'm describing.

Really interesting mix.

14. Victory Pose: I want you to elaborate on your opinion of this more. I'm intrigued as to " What else would you have there? Nothing?" The character just stands there? Wtf?

I like Victory poses personally...I like picking my own too. But, if there isn't anything else that adequately replaces that element, I want them back.

What I didn't like is the way characters ended up just standing there after their fatality was done. They said "yea" or whatever, and then thier hands just dropped by their side. Boring.

15. Weapons: NO Weapons....for the most part. Um...I'm not a huge fan of weapons in Mk. To me it sorta takes away from what I like about Mk first: Special Moves.

I figure, most of these characters are supposed to be powerful // skilled enough not even need them in combat.

So, o.k., have them there, but just give them to "weaker" characters. Like Kenshi sorta...needs his sword. See what I mean? It's a part of who // what the character is about.

16. Fighting Styles: Yea. But more like
"More Individualized Fighting Styles". We should defiantly be able to tell what style our characters are using, but they should be styles that sorta reflect who we're playing with. Stance and some kicks and punches should be tangible I feel. I think that's where some of the "fantasy" should come from in Mk.

Shouldn't be anything too strict with the fighting styles. Movie choreography should be the inspiration for fighting styles.

17. Ditto Bleed.

I'd like to have transferable data between Mk games too. So I can take my created character through to the next Mk game. Make improvements that the new game has and take it online.(why not dream eh?)


Later.

The Ultimate Mortal Kombat Experience
- Lead Graphic Designer - Mortal Kombat Online -

:G-play :Story :F-Design :Cutout :Get Sig :Raiden :Fans [1] [2] :#LegendaryArts
bleedPosted: 09/26/2007 08:42 PMStatus ::


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RE: What I would/would not like to see in the next MK

I would have one long round, like how the health system works in sports games like Fight Night.

I would not like to have the opponent killed in round one and come back for round two.

I forgot to mention, the death traps I want to see should make some kind of sense. It should not be a "death trap" just put there for the sake of having a death trap. The ones in MK are ridiculous.

Falling off a cliff, falling in to a mob or a pool with a creature that can eat you, like in the MKDA concept art. Slamming in to a weak structure and having it fall on you, etc... Things that are a bit more logical.

I had though of one before, where the fight took place in a dragon's nesting or mating grounds. It would be on a cliff by the sea. There would be tons of dragons flying around, etc.. If you are knocked off the cliff, several things could happen.

One can catch you in the air with their legs, and maybe have some fight over the player, ripping them apart.

The player could fall in to the water. When they come back up, the could be swept off like how birds hunt fish.

The player could just fall on the rocks below and die.

After landing in the water and getting picked off, a sea monster can jump out and grab you, ripping the character in half.

etc... There are many variations, and they could be controlled by the player throwing you off the cliff. Hold a certain button for a different outcome.




I love to play and come up with ideas for fighting games, and I do hope to get the chance to work on a serious one some time.

I'm a 3d artist, looking to become a professional.

Here's something I'm working on now
Zangief 3D model

KombatPS3Posted: 09/27/2007 02:42 AMStatus ::


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RE: What I would/would not like to see in the next MK

1) Custom death moves for each character. I dont like how they all do the same ones in the last mk.

2) Death traps.

3) have an option to make the computer automatically do a "finish him" move if the computer wins.

4) I like how you can save points and purchase alternate costumes and backgrounds to fight in. I dont like how it it uses the default back grounds the majority of the time in the past mk games.

5) please have SICK graphics in this game at all costs.


EagleClaw4Posted: 09/27/2007 12:27 PMStatus ::


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RE: What I would/would not like to see in the next MK

Great posts Predator and Kombatps3

Predator, I guess we both have a different craving for blood, lol. I just like mine realistic. If Mortal Kombat this time around has a decent fighting system but the blood does not look realistic nor do the fatalities, then I will be dissapointed and won't pick up another MK unless that changes. I dont really agree that even if they have realistic graphics that it would make up for unrealistic looking fatalities. And as for young kids, aren't they not supposed to be playing it in the first place?

Did you mean the blood in the video didn't look realistic, or did you mean it didn't portray any, as you said, sweat and dust effects, because I was only trying to show the blood.

When someone mentions the term pop up I dont know if they are referring to a bounce move which is what MK has, and other fighters don't (at least to my knowledge) Click here to see what I am talking about. The move I'm talking about is the first strike scorpion does in the video. Now, I know a juggle is where you keep them in the air while you are comboing them. I really despise the bounce move even more so than juggles. It just looks so fake and just plain weird. Since I don't have Armageddon, is the parry animation in this video it? At 3 minutes in is where it shows it. I mean if that is the parry animation where Stryker keeps his leg in the air, than it looks terrible. So is the volleyball thing you mentioned the same as the bounce move i was referring to? Ohh yeah and I forgot to mention that, air kombat definately needs to go too , which you seem to agree with me as well.

I'll go into detail on victory poses. Ok, this is the way I feel it should happen. When you defeat your opponent he should be in a dizzy stance like in this vid from "Best of the Best". Its at the end of the video but the whole video is good :). Well when you go to finish your opponent you kill them in a very enraged voice. Like someone who is seeking revenge! Then after he dies you are left breathing heavily from the fight and just stare down at your opponents body, as the camera never focuses exclusively on you but instead on the both of you. And the part when you are looking down on him wouldn't last long, as the screen ends up fading. This makes it more realistic and less weird if the guy does a victory pose, because like bleed said, "who is watching this unfold, in an empty arena"?

Also bleed, now that I think about if the player who loses ends up on the floor and tries to get back up, only failing to do so and then when its time to kill him, you would have to help pick him up if you wanted to kill him in a certain fashion. For example, it would look cleaner if when the opponent loses, he stands there in a dizzy like state, (like in the video I posted) so when its time to finish him lets say I wanted to cut him with a sword diagonally, from the shoulder to the stomach. It would look much better in that position than if he were on the ground and you wanted to do that to him.

Yeah bleed, I also thought about having one long round in future mk games, but I thought the logic behind having a second round is to allow the players to regroup their thoughts, as to how they want to play out the second round with a certain strategy in mind.

I think I see what you mean by, "there not being death traps, just for the sake of ir". Although I think the mk team just placed death traps randomly in stages because its hard to come up with a sort of logic for each stage scenario. That's not really a bad thing in my opinion. The one thing I think the team should do is come up with logic on how deathtraps/pits work. What I mean is this. Think in terms of how one thing affects another. This is my personal philosophy if you will, on how to make a better or more creative trap. For example in this thread I mention a pit where you fall very deep off a platform and land in water that has very long spikes (few and far between) about 2 feet below the surface of the water. So, the force of impact from the fall makes you go deep underwater and the scattered spikes only end up penetrating you in semi non vital areas. So then, you are left stuck on the spikes and since they are long, you never hit the bottom platform below the water. SInce it penetrates in semi non vital areas, you end up dying from both drowning and being impaled. I actually came up with a name for a stage like this called "The Water Dungeon" based on the infamous chinese torture method. I don't know why I ended up giving up my ideas on this board about my pit designs, but I just really wanted to see them be made in case I never get to make a fighting game, lol. Oh well.....

Also your death trap design sound pretty cool too. I personally try to stay away from things that can eat you as I see to many possibilites with this and feel it can become stagnant. I have also thought about the player landing on rocks. Yeah man hurry up and work on that game, lol! Nice Zangief model by the way! Your good. The back muscles always look complex too me.

Kombatps3, I pretty much agreed with everything you said. NIce.

I really hope someone on the mk team reads this post and takes these things into consideration, otherwise I don't really see hat the point of posting is.

Phew! too much posting in fact.....


ThePredator151Posted: 09/27/2007 02:19 PMStatus ::


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RE: What I would/would not like to see in the next MK

bleed Wrote:


Beautiful Idea. Cliff options, that's wonderful...The whole sea scene was painted nicely.

_________

EagleClaw4 Wrote:
Predator, I guess we both have a different craving for blood, lol. I just like mine realistic. If Mortal Kombat this time around has a decent fighting system but the blood does not look realistic nor do the fatalities, then I will be dissapointed and won't pick up another MK unless that changes. I dont really agree that even if they have realistic graphics that it would make up for unrealistic looking fatalities. And as for young kids, aren't they not supposed to be playing it in the first place?



Did you mean the blood in the video didn't look realistic, or did you mean it didn't portray any, as you said, sweat and dust effects, because I was only trying to show the blood.


Well, hm.....I'll just say that I've seen too much the way of death. In the sense that I'm talking, people really do not want reality. I don't think we have a different craving so much as a different interpretation of what blood really looks like when someone is killed.

I meant that the blood in the vid wasn't what I've come to understand to be realistic. You gotta hit arteries and shit for blood to "squirt" and "gush" out. Then it depends, like if someone is shot in the head, different things happen to blood according to what kind of weapon caused the injury. Most of the time you get a slatter, the person falls down, then the puddle is created.

In your vid, everything is a big gush of blood...which is unrealistic.

Blood most commonly pours out, or spews forth from the injury. If someone is cut with a knife, again, spew, or pour unless you're cutting that artery or whatever. Then you get that unusual "squirt"...but even then, there's nothing entertaining about that. The effect it has on a person is like "helpless to help". Shit is not fun or funny unless you're that vile yourself.






EagleClaw4 Wrote:
When someone mentions the term pop up I dont know if they are referring to a bounce move which is what MK has, and other fighters don't (at least to my knowledge) Click here to see what I am talking about. The move I'm talking about is the first strike scorpion does in the video. Now, I know a juggle is where you keep them in the air while you are comboing them. I really despise the bounce move even more so than juggles. It just looks so fake and just plain weird. Since I don't have Armageddon, is the parry animation in this video it? At 3 minutes in is where it shows it. I mean if that is the parry animation where Stryker keeps his leg in the air, than it looks terrible. So is the volleyball thing you mentioned the same as the bounce move i was referring to? Ohh yeah and I forgot to mention that, air kombat definately needs to go too , which you seem to agree with me as well.


1. Yep
2. Uh Hu
aaand..
3. Yes.

EagleClaw4 Wrote:
I'll go into detail on victory poses. Ok, this is the way I feel it should happen. When you defeat your opponent he should be in a dizzy stance like in this vid from "Best of the Best". Its at the end of the video but the whole video is good :). Well when you go to finish your opponent you kill them in a very enraged voice. Like someone who is seeking revenge! Then after he dies you are left breathing heavily from the fight and just stare down at your opponents body, as the camera never focuses exclusively on you but instead on the both of you. And the part when you are looking down on him wouldn't last long, as the screen ends up fading. This makes it more realistic and less weird if the guy does a victory pose, because like bleed said, "who is watching this unfold, in an empty arena"?


Oh, I get what you're saying now. Although, I don't exactly agree with everything there, I get the point.

I still like the victory pose anyway...haha.

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bleedPosted: 09/27/2007 03:52 PMStatus ::


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RE: What I would/would not like to see in the next MK

Why does the finisher need to have the same options every time?

I think it would be more interesting if it was dependant on the situation, what the opponent is doing.

If they are standing, you can do a standing fatality, if they are on the floor struggling, you can do a ground fatality, if they are on their knees, you can do a mid level fatality.

They could even transition from one stance to another, Standing, kneeling to floored.

Or how about back to wall fatality, stage fatality using things in the environment, Not the standard pit fall, but maybe use a rope to strangle the opponent, broken glass to slash them, use a rock, to crush their skull....

Different options for different situations, kind of how you have the different level throws in Tekken, DOA and VF. Different ones against a standing, crouching, floored.

maybe facing away or towards you...

A fatality can flow in from a reversal or work as a combo ender.

Or there could be an opportunity for the opponent to fight back, instead of just standing or laying there waiting to be killed.

The Create a fatality feature would use this kind of system heavily.

Give the overall concept more life basically.

This may sound like overkill, but that's the point, I would like for future games to expand on things whenever possible. Try to avoid bland / simple designs.

EagleClaw4Posted: 09/28/2007 05:44 AMStatus ::


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RE: What I would/would not like to see in the next MK

Predator, I don't know much about how blood spills out from the body. But say an artery was cut, would the blood sort of look like the one in that video? Do you know how veins are different from arteries? If a vein were cut, would the blood squirt out the same as an artery?

Wow bleed, I never thought about that. Having fatalities dependent on if your opponent is on their feet, knees, or grounded sounds pretty cool. Yeah man, I also thought about things in the enviorment you could use on your opponent. I'm just not to crazy about it, but thats me.

Oh yeah, I also had an idea for a stage I wanted to share with yall as well. I was thinking about about an arena that is set in the woods, like how the Living Forest looked in Deception. So there would be a cleared out area of no trees to fight in. it would be at night or in the evening and it would be raining. Maybe like a log cabin in the background. Since the floor would be muddy the players costumes could get really dirty when they fall/get hit. But not so much that you couldn't distinguish one player from another because then that would suck.

bleedPosted: 09/28/2007 01:02 PMStatus ::


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RE: What I would/would not like to see in the next MK

I like the forest stages in the Dead or Alive games. You can fight within the trees, not just in a clearing.

In DOA, you can be slammed in to trees, wall throws work against them, and you can do wall jumps off of them too.

Much better than what was in MKD's forest.

I also like how in DOA 4, you can jump over obstacles and attack during that animation.

I'd make it so you can choose what attacks to do off that, like with jump attacks in street fighter.


I'd like if it the combat system was a closer to this, but with more fantasy elements, because it's possible in the game.

Link

EagleClaw4Posted: 09/30/2007 06:08 AMStatus ::


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RE: What I would/would not like to see in the next MK

Hey bleed, do you have any more ideas you want to share? Like anything concerning new arena designs, pits/deathtraps, fighting mechanics, etc. Thanks

Ninja_MimePosted: 09/30/2007 01:41 PMStatus ::


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RE: What I would/would not like to see in the next MK

For fatalities, I want to feel their pain. MK Fatalities have never really looked painful. Bloody, sure, but too cartoony and stupid. Something like the MKDA intro would be perfect. You can see Liu really struggling to survive.

Instead of effortlessly tearing someone's limbs off, make it look real. Gruesome sound effects are a must.

In other words, I want to have an "OMG!!!" reaction to finishing moves, rather than a "...WTF?".

bleedPosted: 09/30/2007 03:48 PMStatus ::


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RE: What I would/would not like to see in the next MK

I'm basically following concepts from real life.

Things like adjustments to the defensive system. The way it looks, to make it seem more natural.

Holding Block will defend HM like normal

Holding Block+down will defend H and L, but the player is still standing, not crouching. They would duck automatically against high attacks, and hop, flip, use legs etc... to deal with low moves.

======================

In real or even film fights, you don't really see crouching attacks, unless someone gets knocked down.

I'd follow the same idea for the game.

Low attacks would be done while standing, while in a special stance or transition from a previous animation.

=====================

Have some weight properties added to the moves.

A light attack would not be able to cancel a heavy one on a counter hit.

Maybe thwart it a little, but not stop it.

You could have attacks used as blocks with this, so it could potentially make part of your combo work as a parry, if it collides with the opponent's attack.

==================

Aggressive block, like if the opponent goes to do a spin kick on you, you push them, instead of backing up, and make them fall or loose balance.

An attack, like stated above would work for this too.



You can come up with a lot of ideas, if you just watch a fight clip, and imagine what controls would make it possible in a game.

ThePredator151Posted: 09/30/2007 11:26 PMStatus ::


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RE: What I would/would not like to see in the next MK

EagleClaw4 Wrote:
Predator, I don't know much about how blood spills out from the body. But say an artery was cut, would the blood sort of look like the one in that video? Do you know how veins are different from arteries? If a vein were cut, would the blood squirt out the same as an artery?


1. Blood never spews from the body like video games. Be it ever so rare that you hear a "horror story" of some poor "squirter". lol

2. Arteries are the veins that carry (cleansed) blood from a major organ, Veins carry (waste-full) blood to the major organ to be cleansed. Then, you have capillaries, which are mainly there to connect the veins and arteries. Well, they carry oxygen too, but they're notable because they're the smallest blood vessels.

3. Essentially. But it always depends "where" you cut the vessels. Closer to the...heart? Obviously, more blood, and it'll likely kill you....Cut on the finger? Nah.

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VaporPosted: 10/01/2007 02:13 PMStatus ::


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RE: What I would/would not like to see in the next MK

lastfighter89 Wrote:
if we really talk abvout realism,death trap should not exist.

try to image this scene:

you're normally walking in the arena,you do not see a deathtrap and trust accidentally into it.

is it funny?

but this could be realistic.



really boys,realims sucks.

look at tekken or virtua fighter,they aren't realistical at all.

they are the most realistical games,but aren't realistical.

and they are boring as hell.

also Gears of war,i like the dark style and similar things,but we really need a very serious game?a realistic game?



if the game is realistic,then we should have :less blood,less gore and less fun.



this is my philosophy,sorry for going against popular will.



Dude you need to go somewhere with your negativity.

EagleClaw4Posted: 10/01/2007 05:34 PMStatus ::


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RE: What I would/would not like to see in the next MK

Ninja Mime, I totally agree.

bleed, the thing I wondered about fighting in a stage with obstacles like trees in it was how it would affect gameplay. I thought problems would arise out of this, like restriction of movement. But after watching a match vid that took place in the DOA3 forest, the trees seem to be kind of far between each other, so if you say it works and it wouldn't break the game, I trust you, since you seem to know what your'e talking about.

Predator, good to know, thanks man!

Finally, I wanted to mention that I see the dragon logo appear a lot in the arenas featured in the latest MK's. I for one would like to not see it appear so often. It really seems to dumb down the visual potential the stage could of had.

bleedPosted: 10/02/2007 10:41 PMStatus ::


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RE: What I would/would not like to see in the next MK

I'd like to see many different ways of doing combos. Not necessarily long combos.

I loved how you could do custom combos in MK4. Mixing in D. pad motions with regular attacks ala street fighter and the like.

I want to see more experimentation with this.


Examples of different ways to do combos commands.

1 = standard fast dial = short and weak combos

2 = Timed dial = special timing to get different effects, may be a mix of string and canned combos.

3 = Buffered = Includes D. pad motions like in 2d fighters. Doesn't mean you cancel punches in to fireballs. It can be special regular attacks, and they don't have to be guaranteed to hit.

4 = Custom combo = Requires precise timing to make moves flow in to one another, like the dial combos in Street fighter alpha 3, only that it only extends string combos, doesn't necessarily make them connect like in MK or STF.

5 = I'd like jump attacks (Depending on the move used) to cause knock downs, stuns, collapses, guard break, flow in to combos, cancel in to specials....

6 = I'd like air combos to work like a mix of 2d MK, and Street fighter Alpha 3.
That means that you can do the hit ~ special move cancels, short air combos, aerial recovery etc. But everything is flowing across the screen in a fairly logical manner. I don't want to see any stopping mid air, to do an air combo, then drop to the ground.

7 = The combos should be able to transfer to different planes. Ground, aerial, jumping in, wake up, side stepping...

Many different things, just do it in a way so you can't get more than say 5 or 6 hits. At least without the ability to get out of it some how, increase gravity, lessen the stuns or whatever. Do NOT have a canned combo ender like the Maximum damage in MK4.

The-OnePosted: 10/03/2007 10:51 AMStatus ::


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RE: What I would/would not like to see in the next MK

So long as it doesnt include D.C characters then i'll be happy.

EagleClaw4Posted: 10/03/2007 11:13 AMStatus ::


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RE: What I would/would not like to see in the next MK

Good stuff bleed. I for one don't really know what it takes to make a good fighting system, so I cant critique what you said. I need to go over some fighting game terminology, from sites that I have bookmarked when I get a chances so I can really learn to understand what is being said.

Here's something else I wanted to add. Remember how in Deception when you fell off the Falling Cliff's platform and landed on a pointed rock? Well do you remember that the animation always looked the same? Like, you knew that he was going to be impaled by that same rock in the same exact location. I found this very annoying after I saw it so many times. They should really spice it up, so when the player falls he would land on different rocks that are on different locations in different parts of his body.

Also, a lot of characters I have seen recently seem to have sashes. I for one would not like to see so many characters with them on. Check out this link for pics of the character models and you will see what I'm talking about.

EagleClaw4Posted: 10/03/2007 03:39 PMStatus ::


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RE: What I would/would not like to see in the next MK

Just in case you guys aren't looking at this thread. I put up a drawing of a character concept I had in mind. It's on page 6..

Ninja646Posted: 10/07/2007 06:22 PMStatus ::


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RE: What I would/would not like to see in the next MK

Personally, I want to see characters like Havik, Noob, Scorpion, Raiden, Sub-Zero, and Dairoucome back fo the next-gen...even if I have to unlock or download them.
As far as the Kreate-a-fighter goes, they messed up on it the first time around, I want to use parts from the Default charaters (like Havik's shin gaurds). I wanted more weapons to use like Kamas, Staffs, Manriki-Gusari (whip chain), Tonfa, Sai, Knives/ Daggers, and more. Then there's the specials in KAF, I want 5 max, choosing what typeof special each one is (like 2 disabling, 2 charge, 1 teleport)
As for the fighting part...I want it like it was in MKD, two unarmed fighting styles and one weapon per character. Lets not forget about that Kreate-a-fatality cr*p. I want two charatcer specific fatalties per charater, KAF fighters using those from default characters.I don't want that kreate a fatalilty unless I choose it in the options menu.
Then there's the fighting styles and how they are represented in the game, most of the attacks for the fighting styles aren't use by the styles (same goes for the stances). B.T.W. palm stikes are far stongger than anyone relizes when done correctly. Palm stikes are far more effective than any punch I know of (don't argue about this with me, I practice Tang Soo Do and realized palm strikes were strongger while sparring and then while breaking boards).
Then there's the mini games, I want to see the Puzzle Kombat, Chess Kombat, and the raceing with whatever else they put in there along with the Arcade and Konquest modes.
Lastly, I want one Konquest mode per playable character.

Now, thinga I don't want to see in the next-gen instalment...any combos that are 5 or moe hits long that only do about 23% or less damage.
No ridiulally long combos either, I made a 12 or 20 hit combo with Raiden in MKD (82-84% damage) that just makes it annoying online if your on the receiving end.

But, all in al, the #1 thing is HAVIK MUST BE IN NEXT-GEN!

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