Balanced Gameplay
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posted04/26/2004 08:35 PM (UTC)by
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XcarnageX
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I Have Become as the Wastelands of Unending Nothingness. Now Shall the Night Things Fill Me with their Whisperings, and the Shadows Reveal their Wisdom.

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02/21/2003 03:07 AM (UTC)
Okay, pretty much everyone knows that there has naever been a balanced MK game. By balanced, I mean all the characters equal out in their advantages and disadvantages. There have always been tier lists and rank orders of gameplay superiority, although they've been debatable.

Personally I hope MKD will be more balanced, with the different fighting styles and special moves offering different advantages and disadvantages that make all the characters more or less even in the long run.

One thing I found interesting that was in the pocket version of the MK3 strategy guide was the fact that in each character's section, it listed his/her 4 "most dangerous foes," the characters who were most effective against that character. Unfortunately, some characters showed up much more often than others. I think it would be interesting if in MKD there were sort of a "rock-paper-scissor" setup. For example, perhaps Scorpion would have an advantage over Sub-Zero, but Sub-Zero would have an advantage over Baraka, and Baraka would have an advantage over Scorpion. Of course, it couldn't be as simple as that; it would have to be a very complex, mathematical system, but I think it might be possible.

Do you guys hope MKD will be more balanced than MK games have been in the past? Do you think the "rock-paper-scissor" idea has potential? Or do you want to see tier lists like usual?
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Cyborg_wolf
04/26/2004 07:02 PM (UTC)
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That is an interesting point of wiew, and a good idea. But i had also made a thread about Gameplay on this board, called Gameplay issues. You may want to check it out. And i agree, i'm tired of tier lists, let's have a balanced MK.
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colguile
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04/26/2004 07:22 PM (UTC)
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Scrubs.

Every game has tiers. EVERY GAME. MKD will be no exception. There will always be tiers. These has never been fighting game without proven tiers.

Deal with it.
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XcarnageX
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I Have Become as the Wastelands of Unending Nothingness. Now Shall the Night Things Fill Me with their Whisperings, and the Shadows Reveal their Wisdom.

04/26/2004 07:40 PM (UTC)
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colguile Wrote:
Scrubs.

Every game has tiers. EVERY GAME. MKD will be no exception. There will always be tiers. These has never been fighting game without proven tiers.

Deal with it.

Hmm...I didn't know that, since I don't frequently play any fighting games besides MK. But a question: are tiers and rankings in other games always as obvious as they are in MK? I mean, in MKDA no good player can seriously dispute that Scorpion is the best, followed by Bo Rai Cho, and that Cyrax and Kitana are at the bottom. Are advantages always as obvious as this? If not, then I don't think it's unreasonable to ask for the tier list to be "flattened," so that any character can compete with any other character.
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Cyborg_wolf
04/26/2004 07:43 PM (UTC)
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Yes, we know, thank you very much, but don't say that something that has not happened yet, WILL happen THIS way. Deception has not been released yet, whatdoyaknow, what if Deception proves to be the first fully balanced fighting game ever? Nothing is certain, and everything can happen.
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Bezou
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04/26/2004 07:43 PM (UTC)
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Also, you have to consider how much testing they would have to do to balance everyone's strengths and weaknesses. Instead of getting MK:D this year we might not get it until next year, or two years from now.

There's always goingt to be powerful characters and less powerful characters. But if you're good enough, someone picking the top tier character won't be able to beat you picking the bottom tier character. wink
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Digital_Assassin
04/26/2004 07:46 PM (UTC)
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mk2 had balanced gameplay...
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wedgegold
04/26/2004 07:58 PM (UTC)
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Tha balance has always been there between all characters. One can punch harder than another(ie Jax vs Sonya) so they you have to block or stay away from the punches and fight a different way.

The issue I had with gameplay in was combos. Combos worked if you played every day for a few hours. but if you play once or twice a week it was difficult to learn the combos.

The special moves are a very short combo and easier to learn. I think they need to cut down on the combos and up the number of special moves.


How about having combos of specials. be able to pull one off and push the opponent in the next. It all depends on how the opponent is hit. Almost liek a juggle. That was cool in MKDA. Of course those would have to be planned out.

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XcarnageX
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I Have Become as the Wastelands of Unending Nothingness. Now Shall the Night Things Fill Me with their Whisperings, and the Shadows Reveal their Wisdom.

04/26/2004 08:05 PM (UTC)
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Digital_Assassin Wrote:
mk2 had balanced gameplay...

Not even close. Mileena is RIDICULOUSLY powerful in MK2, so is Jax. Reptile is the weakest. It's very debatable regarding most of the others, but it's far from balanced.
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colguile
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04/26/2004 08:35 PM (UTC)
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xcarnagex Wrote:

Hmm...I didn't know that, since I don't frequently play any fighting games besides MK. But a question: are tiers and rankings in other games always as obvious as they are in MK? I mean, in MKDA no good player can seriously dispute that Scorpion is the best, followed by Bo Rai Cho, and that Cyrax and Kitana are at the bottom. Are advantages always as obvious as this? If not, then I don't think it's unreasonable to ask for the tier list to be "flattened," so that any character can compete with any other character.
Yep. Some are much harder to discover than others but they all posess tiers.

A few game that come to mind that had easily observed tiers are:

Street Fighter 2
SvC: Chaos
Street fighter EX
Street fighter EX2+

The advantages of easy infinites in SvC. The properties of Zangief and Blair in contrast to the frozen frames during moves and supers.

EX2+ With excels. Whoever had the easier excel that can juggle and link wins.

Street fighters have always had set tier lists. However you would be right in stating that MK is the KING of broken fighters. Good lord...lol.

This game MAY be and improvement but as stated before: This game needs GOOD TESTING.

In all my years of playing fighters the most balanced fighter ever touched is street fighter 3: 3rd strike (arc). That game still has tiers but excluding a few, you can use the whole cast and win. This cannot be said for any MK. In most Mk's about 20% of the cast usable in high level.


I can only expect the same for the next MK and thusly online play will suck ass.
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