If you want fluff play other games they said - AKA logical fallacy.
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posted11/14/2008 09:38 PM (UTC)by
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Token
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Ma UweChube Channelle

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09/29/2007 12:24 AM (UTC)
Actually, other games have better fighting systems as well.

Now, if MK vs DC actually has one of the best fighting systems of all time then there would be some argument not to complain about the lack of content and style we are used to seeing in an MK game.

MK's fighting engine has never been anything but broken, but back in the MK1-4 days it was a highly fun, addictive and playable fighter. When it came to MKDA the fighting engine was living in the past and was poorly designed, not even having the basics required of 3D fighters. MK Deception was worse, marking it's spot for me as one of the shittiest designed fighting games ever.
It has more infinites than characters. MK Armageddon attempted to improve by adding fighting game staples such as wake-ups to prevent 50/50s. It still has loads of infinites mostly due to the air kombat and is definitively broken. To top it off, unlike the old 2D MKs these incarnations were never really much fun to play, and were clunky stiff and crap looking in a fight as well as being broken games mocked by the fighting game community and unable to make an appearance in big tournaments.

People have been complaining about MK's gameplay for years, and calling the MK team lazy (the real problem is Midway's lack of funds forcing them to churn out an MK game every year). We've been hoping for a change of system to reset and allow good gameplay to be built from the bottom up.

MK vs DC has not exactly done this (featuring many animations from the old games), but appears to have staples such as wake-ups in and the best thing of all to have dropped the old dial-a-combo heavy system in favour of custom combos. Hey, we seem to have just-frame moves too. Rejoice!

Really? Ok, it's better than the disastrous MKs on the last gen consoles, but is it really that much better that it compensates for the lack of content? We are talking relative to dog shit here.
People have laughed at people calling the game out for it's so called fatalities and sell out concept, claiming that the improved gameplay is the saving grace.

Fighters like Soul Calibur, Tekken, Street Fighter will annihilate MK vs DC in the gameplay department (MKs gameplay even looks shitty due to piss poor animation/mocapping), so why tell those wanting a good story and content, no superheroes, and yes, fatalities, that if "If they want fluff play other fighting games". No, sorry, MK has thrived upon "fluff" to keep itself afloat, but this is a baby step. It may well have a good fighting system, but why not play fighting games with great fighting systems AND great setting and content?

The arguments for this game are ridiculous. You don't even have to play it to see this logic. We can see how bad everything else is from how it looks, why bother with an inferior product just because it finally got the fighting in the fighting game right. Other fighting games offer what MK does and more.
If MK continues this way, it'll be through. Or it should be. You see, that's what the fallacy results in.

Should this be in the rant thread (which was not a good idea by the way)? Maybe, but I want people to stop using this logical fallacy to put down people every time they are disappointed with "trivial" things such as fatalities or every single thing in the game pretty much sucking apart from gameplay which looks good. Just good. Wow, people, an MK with GOOD gameplay.

Hey, it'll be fun to play, I'm sure, but don't try to use arguments like that against people who see faults in it. Please. There's quite legitimate reasons to complain.
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RazorsEdge701
11/14/2008 01:14 PM (UTC)
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Who told you other games had "fluff"? I don't understand what this is in response to or what the point of it is.
I'm also a little put off by the way you talk like your opinion of the gameplay is how EVERYBODY feels. That's not true. Some people like Tekken and Street Fighter but some people don't and want MK games to feel like MK games, not try to imitate another series.
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11/14/2008 01:23 PM (UTC)
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RazorsEdge701 Wrote:
Who told you other games had "fluff"? I don't understand what this is in response to or what the point of it is.


The logical fallacy people are using all the time now which is basically where people are responding to other's complaints about things like fatalities and story by calling those things fluff and hailing the gameplay as the only thing that matters and that it's some thing transcendent. They'll tell you to go and play other fighting games if you want fluff.

This is a fallacy, because other fighting games have better fighting systems AND so called fluff. If gameplay is the only thing that matters, why bother playing the MK brand with the things that make it MK? Go and play a fighting game with a better fighting system instead. See where it leads?
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RazorsEdge701
11/14/2008 01:24 PM (UTC)
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Who is "everyone", why do you keep saying "everyone is using this logical fallacy"? I haven't seen ANYONE say what you're talking about! No one is saying MK is deep and other games are fluff!
Ed himself has said that MK games are deliberately designed to not BE too deep, so that casual gamers can enjoy them too and don't have to be experts to have fun!
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oracle
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11/14/2008 01:44 PM (UTC)
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actually a lot of people on the boards have been frequently saying how nothing else in this game matters now that the fighting engine has been improved.

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Ma UweChube Channelle

11/14/2008 01:45 PM (UTC)
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I said "people" not "everyone". Go look in the "MK vs DC is out" thread for example, but I've seen posters using it for a long time in the run up now.

Who cares if that's what Ed Boon designed it for? Mk failed as a FUNCTIONAL fighter in the last gen, never mind deepness. MK vs DC looks to be competent, functional, and with some fun to be had despite it's clunky lookingness. Still, there's no reason that it's other shortcomings shouldn't be an issue.

Do you understand the fallacy?
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RazorsEdge701
11/14/2008 01:46 PM (UTC)
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Yes, there are people who are excited for this game even though it lacks canon story and all that stuff, because of the gameplay.

I haven't heard them call Tekken "fluff", though. That is what nobody is doing as far as I'm aware.

And I think a good reason to be excited for MK vs DC even if you prefer story and an M rating, is because of the knowledge that this engine will be used in the NEXT game too. Now that they spent all their time getting a good engine working, they can spend most of MK9's development time adding in the "flavor" content and in 2 years, we'll have a full MK game that's enjoyable in all areas.
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11/14/2008 02:04 PM (UTC)
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I doubt they can spend their good time with Midway going under. Midway has actually been slowly dying since MKDA. We'll probably see the next MK next year with some bells and whistles, maybe some superheroes, maybe not. Scorpion and Subs will definitely be there for the party.
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RazorsEdge701
11/14/2008 02:05 PM (UTC)
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Video game companies don't die when they go out of business, they get bought by and merged with other publishers.
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Ma UweChube Channelle

11/14/2008 02:07 PM (UTC)
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RazorsEdge701 Wrote:
Video game companies don't die when they go out of business, they get bought by and merged with other publishers.


I'd be actually be very happy if Midway goes tits up and gets bought out by a financially stable company, could be VERY good for MK.
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RazorsEdge701
11/14/2008 02:09 PM (UTC)
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As long as the new publisher respects the history and storyline, I'll be fine. I wouldn't want it to fall into the hands of the Gears of War guys, for instance, because...while you'd think it would be a great fit - the violence is there, the graphics and gameplay were state of the art, game of the year stuff...but my GOD, the dialogue in that game was utter shit. It was like the script was written by football players.
I guess the ideal scenario if Midway gets bought out is that the new team keeps Vogel, because Vogel is the only person in the entire world who actually knows EVERYTHING in every single character and every single game's backstory. Whenever Vogel isn't on the job, past facts get misconstrued or forgotten about and you end up with another damn Shaolin Monks.
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Zidane_FF
11/14/2008 09:38 PM (UTC)
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Token I agree with you in everything

I think that our franchise deserves respect to be treated like a serious game, like MK1 and MK2 was.

Maybe a change in the company is a really good idea, since the MK team dont give a thing about it.

Even the story line could be remade. Remember the disaster that Armageddon was in this topic? Vogel makes the most stupid endings in story.
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