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Invisibility in MKA
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posted05/22/2006 07:20 PM (UTC)by
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tgrant
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gencario
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Invisibility was bestowed upon two characters in MKD. Both enjoy total invisibility. Many would probably agree that Smoke should have had this move rather than Noob and several have said Tanya shouldn’t have it, but this isn’t the issue.
Anyone who has played Killer Instinct will probably know that the character Cinder also had invisibility. Bilbo Baggins from the Hobbit book could also become invisible through the use of the One Ring. The difference here in both cases was that they gave a shadow when invisible. In theory, the MK characters should also cast a shadow. Despite not showing a shadow on MKD, it wasn’t too hard knowing where the opponent was. This was mainly due to the camera which zoomed in if they were near you and zoomed out if they were farther away.
Imo, shadows should be added so as to give a clue to whereabouts the opponent is. I also think that the camera should remain fixed and zoomed out upon a character becoming invisible. It shouldn’t move based on their distance. The shadow would be your clue as to where they were. Expert players would have their skills tested and novices would have a shadow to look at to see how the opponent is moving and it can also give clues on the incoming attack.
Invisibility should by default fail versus Kenshi. He is blind and can fight without seeing. So why would an invisible opponent hinder him?
A set amount of time to stay invisible could be added so that you become automatically visible after a certain period of time. This will help prevent victories gained by just staying completely invisible the entire match as can happen. Some may regard such a victory as unfair.
A cancel option should be added to the invisibility move as it starts. This allows a fake invisibility to occur. This can be used to trick opponents. When they see you trying to become invisible, they’ll most likely try to attack so you cancel and counter attack.
Also, online, it might be handy for the person who is invisible to remain visible slightly on their screen, giving a chameleon type effect just so that they can see what they are doing and where they are. Sometimes you can mess things up simply because you can’t see what you’re doing or judge distances correctly. This idea would help counter that. You will be shown as fully invisible on the opponents screen.
These are just some ideas regarding it. Let me know your thoughts.
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Subzero2
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 •05/14/2006 08:53 PM (UTC) •
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Reptile can disappear
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tgrant
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Currently working on: MKD & MKA - The One Ring Theory
•05/14/2006 08:55 PM (UTC) •
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Subzero2 Wrote:
Reptile can disappear

Did you even read the thread? It's not about who can become invisible. It's about ideas and changes that can help players using that ability.
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NickScryer
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 •05/14/2006 08:56 PM (UTC) •
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Excellent point about kenshi and the Camera Angle staying fixed!!
Everything here is great,
but i would rather reptile have no shadow while invisible it looks cool, and its better tactically. Cancel option: Yes Time limit: Hell no! LOL
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EcstasyTuesday
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 •05/14/2006 08:58 PM (UTC) •
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NickScryer Wrote:
Excellent point about kenshi and the Camera Angle staying fixed!!
Everything here is great,
but i would rather reptile have no shadow while invisible it looks cool, and its better tactically.

i agree..exelent point tgrant...the camera should be zoomed out and fixed when invisible...but if they had a shadow you would always no where your opponent is...so i dont like the shadow idea..........BUT i dont even like having invisibility cause this doesnt effect fighting against the cpu, they always no where u r.....but great for online
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Subzero2
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 •05/14/2006 09:16 PM (UTC) •
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EcstasyTuesday Wrote:
NickScryer Wrote:
Excellent point about kenshi and the Camera Angle staying fixed!!
Everything here is great,
but i would rather reptile have no shadow while invisible it looks cool, and its better tactically.

i agree..exelent point tgrant...the camera should be zoomed out and fixed when invisible...but if they had a shadow you would always no where your opponent is...so i dont like the shadow idea..........BUT i dont even like having invisibility cause this doesnt effect fighting against the cpu, they always no where u r.....but great for online

Yeah shadows would be pointless. Also, Camera angles should not give away the disappeared fighters location imo.
tgrant Wrote:
Subzero2 Wrote:
Reptile can disappear

Did you even read the thread? It's not about who can become invisible. It's about ideas and changes that can help players using that ability.

When Reptile disappears on MKSM he is hard as fuck to find. Only clue you have is the water he steps in.
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NickScryer
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 •05/14/2006 09:19 PM (UTC) •
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tgrant Wrote:
Subzero2 Wrote:
Reptile can disappear

Did you even read the thread? It's not about who can become invisible. It's about ideas and changes that can help players using that ability.

When Reptile disappears on MKSM he is hard as fuck to find. Only clue you have is the water he steps in.

thats what makes it soo cool!!tongue
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Subzero2
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 •05/14/2006 09:22 PM (UTC) •
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I know tongue
It always confused me about Kenshi, the man can't see anything visible or not. So when someone attemps to go invisible they should have an ghost-like apparition to show Kenshi sensing their presence
The shadows a nice idea and logical but i can't help but think it would counter-act the point of invisibility completely, you will always know where your opponent is. Perhaps visible footprints on the ground? They're harder to notice so wouldn't affect the advantage of invisibility too much, but i'm just grabing at straws here.
The set amount of time to being invisible has both it's pros and cons, pro it will drastically cut back on cheats online, con you might suddenly become visible leaving you open for a devastating attack.
The camera being zoomed out and fixed is a must, with or without shadows as the current system makes invisibility pointless.
A cancel option is a great idea and opens up another plain of strategy and tatics. You wouldn't know whether to go in and quickly attack or stay back and defend, for fear of being tricked. Or on the other side you could use this tactic to draw your opponent catching them totally unaware.
Being slightly visible to yourself online is another great idea, one its just plain common sense to do so, two it would make invisibility a much more potent weapon, since now you would have greater control over your character.
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Keith
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 •05/14/2006 10:06 PM (UTC) •
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Yes I feel the invisibility moves do need to be fixed. Shadows might be a bit too much of a clue however. Perhaps only a part of the character should be visible. For e.g Tanya's glowing white eyes or should the move go to smoke instead of Noob a light smog surrounding where is, just visible. Great thread and great ideas.
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Bezou
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 •05/14/2006 11:04 PM (UTC) •
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I like the idea of the camera being zoomed out fully when invisible but, like others have said, the whole point of invisibility would be nerfed if the player cast a shadow. Invisibility should work for a player, not against them.
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Zidane_FF
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 •05/15/2006 12:40 AM (UTC) •
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They have to take this invisibility move from Tanya and give it back to Reptile. He is the legitimate user of this move. Also Noob have to lose also and give that to Smoke only.
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mkflegend
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 •05/15/2006 01:01 AM (UTC) •
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Well, in other words you feel it's too cheesy online.That's what it comes down to.
I suppose I can see your point, to a point.
I mean, I'll admit Tanya and Noob turning invisible online was a bitch at times but it wasn't anything insane like say Bo's stick, or actual infinites IMO.
I can deal with it and I think they should do this to be honest man.
With Smoke, I think this would be a great idea.Have him cloak into the background but you can STILL see him, like Predator.Not 100% invisible like The Invisible Man, Hollow Man or Reptile, Smoke in the MK world.
And when you hit Smoke while he's cloaked after he cloaks himself, he starts malfuntioning with glitches all over his body, sparkling if you will to OBVIOUSLY see him but also for cool effect.
Then he turns back to 100% visible, btw when this happens Smoke can't turn cloaked again right off the bat.For cheese reasons.
Now for Tanya, just make her visible.Making her invisible was not the way to go.It makes no sense for her character.Make her visible like everyone else with the exceptions of Smoke and Reptile.
Reptile, he HAS to be 100% invisible.If they consider my idea for Smoke, then once character being able to turn invisible shouldn't be a big deal online or not.smile
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queve
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 •05/15/2006 02:50 AM (UTC) •
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Very good stuff. All your ideas about invisibility sound great T, except the part of the shadows. I mean, whats the point of turning invisible if there will be shadows around giving obvious clues of where you are.
You have a very good point about the camera part, I hadn’t noticed that because I honestly never use the invisibility moves, I find them pretty boring.
I rather prefer they simply didn’t bring the invisibility special move back for any character (specially those who don’t need it or dont suit them), but if its back, they should focus on some of the points you mentioned.
Good stuff T.
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tgrant
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•05/15/2006 12:46 PM (UTC) •
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Everyone seems to agree on the ideas minus the part about a shadow which I can understand.
CrispyDragon Wrote:
The shadows a nice idea and logical but i can't help but think it would counter-act the point of invisibility completely, you will always know where your opponent is. Perhaps visible footprints on the ground? They're harder to notice so wouldn't affect the advantage of invisibility too much, but i'm just grabing at straws here.
The set amount of time to being invisible has both it's pros and cons, pro it will drastically cut back on cheats online, con you might suddenly become visible leaving you open for a devastating attack.

I like your idea of footprints. The opponent could also kick up dirt or dust or something as a tell tale sign of where they are.
As for the set amount of time, imo, when you are invisible, you tend to block less and are open for attack anyway as you try to attack the opponent so it wouldn't matter if you were visbile or not. The point of being invisible is to be able to attack stealthily and if it fumbles or your attack fumbles, then you should pay for it - hence the attack you spoke of.
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MK_krazy
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 •05/15/2006 04:28 PM (UTC) •
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invisibility eh? never used it in MK:D but i used it alot with cinder.
shadows may or may not work. You see with cinder, I used his invisiblity to try and not see what move i was going to do and with the shadow it makes my opponent harder to see what move i am going to pull off (but not impossible) and therefore reduce his chances of a combo breaker.
Now with MK you dont have combo breakers(well not like the KI ones), so that reason to go invisible just went out the window, but now there is a parry it might become more useful. (I'm not saying that this is the only reason why to go invisible but this was a big factor for me in killer instinct.)
I don't think a time limit would be good with this, depends how long the time limit is but it should still have the 'get hit ruturn back to normal' thing.
Hmm, nice idea about Kenshi, maybe if characters had unseen different abilities this could be Kenshi's.
Overall nice ideas, i get what your saying but some just doesn't really work for me.
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cloneofdan
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 •05/15/2006 05:02 PM (UTC) •
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If you've got to have invisibility then it makes sense for small details to give the game away- footprints in blood / sand, etc. Not shadows- bearing in mind that the light around a player is bent around so that it falls where it would have gone without interruption. No interruption=no shadows. At least according to Star Trek, lol wink
And for Kenshi- great point! Only, they've kind of retconned his MKDA blindness & subsequent detecting by sound (and the cool bit in test your sight) IMO by Shujinko saying his "Sight is of a spiritual nature". That's entirely different to actually *hearing* to live by.
That's not an improvement (I liked him fine before), but I just wanted to bring that one up!
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tgrant
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•05/16/2006 12:02 PM (UTC) •
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MK_krazy Wrote:
invisibility eh? never used it in MK:D but i used it alot with cinder.
shadows may or may not work. You see with cinder, I used his invisiblity to try and not see what move i was going to do and with the shadow it makes my opponent harder to see what move i am going to pull off (but not impossible) and therefore reduce his chances of a combo breaker.
Now with MK you dont have combo breakers(well not like the KI ones), so that reason to go invisible just went out the window, but now there is a parry it might become more useful. (I'm not saying that this is the only reason why to go invisible but this was a big factor for me in killer instinct.)

I see what you're saying here. Invisibility is definitely used for concealing your attacks and making them harder to counter. For cinder, that'd have been a good thing due to the breaker system on KI. MK's is simplistic and almost any hit can be breakered. The parry could make it more useful, but if you parry the incoming attack, I'm wondering if you'd be revealed again or not. I shouldn't think you would be due to the parry supposedly stopping you from actually being hit, but this might not be the case. Hopefully they've thought of this.
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Aquarius_D
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 •05/16/2006 03:08 PM (UTC) •
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Good thread man! This made me think of the Blind Gamer dude. I mean he can't see anything and could still kick ass! After that, to me the complete invisibility of one or two characters doesn't seem so bad after all.
I personally like the invisible characters to remain completely invisible. Besides hitting them a little would reveal their positions instantly anyway. I also agree that footprints while walking on the sand or even on pools of water(ripple effect maybe) would be a good idea as something to give away their position.
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painkiller1022
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 •05/16/2006 08:34 PM (UTC) •
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I completely dissagree with your shadow idea. It easy enough to find someone invisible. ALSO if you think, if you REALLY WERE INVISIBLE you wouldnt cast a shadow, because you wouldnt be there, light would shine right through you. But other than that, good ideas.
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mkflegend
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 •05/17/2006 01:24 AM (UTC) •
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Ohh, yeah lol.I forgot about Kenshi.Well, I say this.I agree for the most part then again just to be objective can't he kind of fight you regardless of being invisible or not?
I mean, he fights people that aren't invisible however he's blind anyway?
So, how can he tell the difference?
Just a little something I'm trying to think about.It's an interesting concept.
Good topic BTW.smile
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tgrant
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•05/19/2006 06:15 AM (UTC) •
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painkiller1022 Wrote:
I completely dissagree with your shadow idea. It easy enough to find someone invisible. ALSO if you think, if you REALLY WERE INVISIBLE you wouldnt cast a shadow, because you wouldnt be there, light would shine right through you. But other than that, good ideas.

Yeah, I agree. I guess shadows are definitely out then!
Aquarius_D Wrote:
Good thread man
I personally like the invisible characters to remain completely invisible. Besides hitting them a little would reveal their positions instantly anyway. I also agree that footprints while walking on the sand or even on pools of water(ripple effect maybe) would be a good idea as something to give away their position.

Thanks, dude.
I guess the shadow idea isn't all that good, but it was just there as a question and possibility and it looks like the majority don't want it which I can fully understand.
mkflegend Wrote:
Ohh, yeah lol.I forgot about Kenshi.Well, I say this.I agree for the most part then again just to be objective can't he kind of fight you regardless of being invisible or not?
I mean, he fights people that aren't invisible however he's blind anyway?
So, how can he tell the difference?
Just a little something I'm trying to think about.It's an interesting concept.
Good topic BTW.smile

Kenshi could fight you if you were invisible or not, but when the opponent turns invisible, it's you that is affected, not Kenshi! For the sake of storyline he should be able to fight them with ease reagrdless of visbility. So in that case there's no point for invisibility to work versus him. Another idea is to allow Kenshi to still see them vaguely via a psychic aura or something. This would key in with his abilities.
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krsx66
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•05/21/2006 06:55 PM (UTC) •
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Interesting thread ty.
I never thought about the shadow, I suppose by rights it should be there, and would definitely help the opposing player.
I do agree that it would be easier for the invisible player to Chameleon and be slightly visible for themselves.
However, playing UMK3 and pulling off a nice combo with Robo Smoke while invisible, then standing at the right distance and pulling off his Grenade drop fatality - ah, it's just skill man, impressive when I do it, or when someone does it to me (even more amazing with Reptile.) Allowing for some visibility will take that aspect away.
Though overall I tend to agree with your ideas. I do like the cancel, it would make for an awesome animation. Your character standing in the cloud, w/out turning invisible, looking incredibly badass.
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YingYeung
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•05/22/2006 07:20 PM (UTC) •
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In LotR Bilbo's footsteps are seen (I never noticed his shadow) and this would be a nice touch. Footprints that fades. Shadows would make invisibility useless.
Reptile needs that move back. Every move he ever had he needs them back sad.
I like Keith's idea of the glowing eyes for Tanya.
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