hunnitwatz Wrote: so will mkd be easy for the casual gamer?

I don't think so because MKD looks so much faster
than tekken and MKDA so you would press buttons faster to do good combos.

well there is always practice mode

This is true tekken you can pick up and play,but you would still get owned by a skillful player thus making you learn the game.I think the same would go for this MK:D.I'm sure you can pick it up and play with no problems,but like I said above.Practice mode is your friend.

hunnitwatz Wrote: Earlier i had a talk with one of my friends and we were talking bout MK and tekken. He was sayin dat in tekken you really didnt have to learn anything to play the game. you could just pic up the contoller and play.but in mkda it seems like you had to learn and memorize all of the combos and moves.tekken has the left punch right punch left kick right kick type of thing where the casual gamer could just pic up the controller and play. so will mkd be easy for the casual gamer?

A casual gamer can pick up and play Mortal Kombat with a much higher success rate than they could with Tekken. Tell your friend he's a scrub.

Tekken is more pick up and play friendly because it has more combo's per character than MK:DA. There's less room for error. Like... when my friend got VF4:evo, he completely kicked my ass the first 3 matches, then I got the hang of it and could easily bust out some 4 or 5 hit combo. The chances of a new player doing that in MK:DA is highly unlikely because there are so few combo's in the game.

Pretentious Wrote: A casual gamer can pick up and play Mortal Kombat with a much higher success rate than they could with Tekken. Tell your friend he's a scrub.

Ditto.
MK is the most "casual player friendly" fighter in existance. It's made for noobs and peeps who want to play a "fighting game" yet don't want to actually put in the hardcore time it takes to learn a "fighting game."
Why? It lacks all the features that in and of themselves create depth for fighters. No move properties, no movement options, universal mechanics and so on. Even that which is present is highly simplified, such as execution, teching, the "combo system," if you want to call it that.
MK seams to choose a simplification route which nerfs some aspects that other fighters have. These aspects are directly related to the learning curve, the depth and how the player developes over time.
Hunnitwatz, don't forget to tell your friend he's a scrub.

I think you're on the right track pointing out that MK doesn't have the same depth that other figthers do but I still believe you are missing something because I was convinced by someone's post here that MK is in fact an extremely linear fighting game. Unless you actually know a characters combos/specials then beating someone who knows at least something becomes a serious chore. For example put the difficulty on max on MKDA and try to beat Moloch using more then one technique. When someone says pick up and play I tend to think of a button mashing game, which MK really doesn't pull off.

Satyagraha Wrote: Pretentious Wrote: A casual gamer can pick up and play Mortal Kombat with a much higher success rate than they could with Tekken. Tell your friend he's a scrub. Ditto. MK is the most "casual player friendly" fighter in existance. It's made for noobs and peeps who want to play a "fighting game" yet don't want to actually put in the hardcore time it takes to learn a "fighting game." Why? It lacks all the features that in and of themselves create depth for fighters. No move properties, no movement options, universal mechanics and so on. Even that which is present is highly simplified, such as execution, teching, the "combo system," if you want to call it that. MK seams to choose a simplification route which nerfs some aspects that other fighters have. These aspects are directly related to the learning curve, the depth and how the player developes over time. Hunnitwatz, don't forget to tell your friend he's a scrub.

well actually it really depends, on what you call casual gamers, if you are one, that does play very decent a game, even if you are new to it, you shuld not have any problem, but if you suck, big time, even after playing it a couple of times, then you won't get a hold of it, after all tekken is all about smashing buttons

MK:D will be easy for the casual gamers, because that's the type of category it's in.
Soul Calibur, Tekken and Virtua Fighter are all created with being the best fighting game there is in mind, made especially for fighting game fans.
The MK games are what I like to call a "novelty fighting game" it's created with the idea of what I can only describe as being a 3D version of Midway Arcade treasures in mind.
They are made especially for casual gamers, or to go as extreme as the general public.
Games like Tekken follow traditional guidelines of a fighting game, basing gameplay on easy to get to terms with, hard to master, so even begginers can look like they know what they are doing, but will ultimately be crushed by experts.
Mortal Kombat doesn't to anything to make it a fighting game, it makes it's "wow factor" other things such as characters, fatalities and mini games.
This is why it will be easy for casual gamers, and also why I think MK would've made a better series being more of a RPG/Adventure/Strategy game.

MKD though it will be cool is a game made for noobs, things like combo breakers is an example, a true warrior would learn how not to get into a combo instead of cheaply getting out of one when someone gets the best of them. This also means if you play against someone who knows anything what they are doing then your first 3 combo attempts will fail no matter how good you are.
Though you guys may not agree with me I think death traps is a noob feature as well, as it only takes one cheap (lucky) shot for a noob to win when they have no skill at all. Though a veteran may not allow this to happen its still possible.

subzero961 Wrote: MKD though it will be cool is a game made for noobs, things like combo breakers is an example, a true warrior would learn how not to get into a combo instead of cheaply getting out of one when someone gets the best of them. This also means if you play against someone who knows anything what they are doing then your first 3 combo attempts will fail no matter how good you are. Though you guys may not agree with me I think death traps is a noob feature as well, as it only takes one cheap (lucky) shot for a noob to win when they have no skill at all. Though a veteran may not allow this to happen its still possible.

Death Traps are ring outs and its not a noob feature. Just know where you are on the stage and force opponent into it. Anyone who falls for a DT a week after the game is released its noob.

Ehh...death traps could be lame, but they could add more depth. We'll just have to wait and see. And, in regards to being hit into one repeatedly equating to your being a noob, that's not necessarily true. Now, if you look at the impale feature from mkda.......if you got impaled at any time period...I would agree with the noob title for that person. Why? because the impale was so obvious, it had a slow distinct motion that allowed everybody to block well in advance. Now, if the death traps are similar to the impale, and I hope they are, I would agree with you. I thought the impale feature was lame, but it was funny if you could pull it off on a noob. But, it served no practical use against a good opponent, other than spotting them 30-50% damage on you. If you take a look at the ring-outs from Soul Caliber, for example, that's a lot easier to pull off than an impale, and I hope they didn't try to go that route. But, if they do make it easier like in Soul Caliber, then they could add some depth to the game, but they have to have counters for lamers that just try to use the death trap as their only way to win. Should be very interesting to find out what they did with the death traps....Oct. 4th...can't wait .

Ring outs were never an issue for me in SC. Sure I got RO'ed before, but it was rare. If someone got RO'ed more than 2 times a day I think that was because they sucked.
In mkd you have breakers you can use to make room, you can sidewalk, fight back etc. Plus, if your teching when you hit the ground(right direction) and walking around, you should not get in a bad situation where a strong hit can knock you into one. Just be aware of positioning. As long as its not glitched up, like you get knocked into one all the way across the screen, it should be fine.

Tekken is definitly easier to play, but i would say less intruiging and immersive. MK isnt that hard to pick up at all, the moves are simple, its just chaining them together thats hard

GAMBINO Wrote: Tekken is definitly easier to play, but i would say less intruiging and immersive. MK isnt that hard to pick up at all, the moves are simple, its just chaining them together thats hard

I dunno what you people mean by tekken is easier to play...but Ill tell you tekken takes more skill to play than mkd could possibly imagine.

GAMBINO Wrote: Tekken is definitly easier to play, but i would say less intruiging and immersive. MK isnt that hard to pick up at all, the moves are simple, its just chaining them together thats hard

You can't chain together moves using the DA fighting engine. The only combos you could do were the pre-determined dial-a-combos. Weee, no freedom and stiff controls, it's a gamer's paradise because we have PUZZLE KOMBAT.
Seriously though, casual gamers will have a blast with this game. The gamers that like MK but also know what makes a good engine will be disgusted.

mkd is easy, even for noobs. especially as long as moloch is out. that hairless monkey was a faggot

MobiusakaBorat Wrote: Ring outs were never an issue for me in SC. Sure I got RO'ed before, but it was rare. If someone got RO'ed more than 2 times a day I think that was because they sucked. In mkd you have breakers you can use to make room, you can sidewalk, fight back etc. Plus, if your teching when you hit the ground(right direction) and walking around, you should not get in a bad situation where a strong hit can knock you into one. Just be aware of positioning. As long as its not glitched up, like you get knocked into one all the way across the screen, it should be fine.

Yes, I agree. Competant players shouldn't have a problem with it either way. ROs were definitely rare in SC, but it was easier and more of actual option than impale was in mkda. I also don't know if breakers will stop somebody from hitting you once with a pushing type of move. Guess we'll just have to wait and see .

MKDA (and likely MKD) strongly limit freedom in terms of combo execution. Combos are created in a way that without trying one button with the next, then with the next, most would just keep doing those crappy, useless, one-hit strikes, the maximum being three or four-hit strikes. An example is Shotokan 1,2,4,5,2,b+2
Most casual gamers will get 1,2,4 after playing for a few matches, then that's it. Most times than not, they will not know that a 5 exists, thus limiting pretty much half of the movelist, seeing as they're mostly stance-change combos.
In other games, it's fairly easy to find all sorts of combinations, even though most casual gamers will just find a flashy move and spam it. Some will learn combos and try to spam them. Other fighters allow more freedom in their combo and basic move list range. It does not matter if one wants to put time into it or not; most will find it easier to pull off a wider and more elaborate range of moves in other fighters. Everytime I used to play MKDA with a friend, he would try pressing different buttons at a time, and a one, two, or three-hit combo would come out. He had seen me pull off S-C combos, and tried a lot of combinations. Then he paused the game and looked at the command list. He would always pause the game and say "Wait a sec. Let me learn how to play.", then he would spam special moves, because those were the only things he bothered to memorize. He said memorizing the combos was not worth the trouble. He was a casual gamer, and did not want to bother with memorizing anything too much.
This same friend owned me in several rounds of VF4, the first time we played it. He spammed Lion's 2+K,K, 8+P, and several other combos, just by experimenting with different sequential button presses (Like he did with MKDA). He took advantage of combos that stunned me or made me stagger.
So no, it is not easy for some casual gamers because the gameplay is too screwed like that. Everything is too simplified or half-assed to ensure constant enjoyability and variety with casual gamers, from the animation and move properties to frame data and stance presentation.

That's just it, too. Everything is half-assed, which is sad. Midway, rushing that shit down since 1992.... -_-
For the record; just because someone gets RO'ed doesn't mean they suck. Did anyone ever think that maybe the other player has an understanding of zoning and space control. Anyone ever think for a moment that they understand rush down and containment princaples?
It doesn't matter how hard you try to "avoid" RO's or protect space, someone will always be able to control what you do durring play. It's not a matter of that individual "sucking," it is a matter of the other player, simply being better.
You can't tell me that a player who falls for random oki for ROs, "sucks." If you tech in SC and get a random RO from oki, what were you supposed to do? Wake up and get GI'ed, rise and take a chance on 50/50's, play dead and take the natural oki - which means you get the play the guessing games again? SC's ringout system is retarded as it is, anyways. Meh...
Edit: If you're a peep worried about D being to hard or over-complicated, don't even sweet it...