My thought at the moment, the discourtesy of the whole affair aside, is that it would be nice to know precisely what the new regulations are before users are instructed to adhere to them. A front page post would be nice.

The whole idea of consolidating those amazing threads into one gigantic chimera thread is terrible. Completely the opposite of streamline and organized.
And, yes, they should tell us of these aforementioned (and very mysterious) changes to come.
Edit: As for these allegations of 'clutter' or spamming, I've seen only 2, if maybe 3 Garlador threads per page. Last time I checked, the limit was 5. There is no clutter. Pretty much all forums except General are ghost towns. If people don't want to post in threads they don't care about, why does it matter?
Also, imagine opening up the KOTW discussion for, say your favorite, Kung Lao. You're so excited to read the crazy discussions on his untimely death!
However, instead of response posts related to the topic at hand, you see numerous and sporadic discussions of Sonya fan concepts, Johnny's chest tattoo, two months previous Baraka panel, last week's Kitana conversation, and whether Smoke runs like a woman or not.
Wow. That sure sounds like organization in its purest form!
P.S. If you actually wanted to reduce forum 'clutter,' you should have gone into the fucking Future MK games sub-topic and merged some of that crap together. There are so many useless, and overlapping topics there, you could have really improved it.

I don't see what the issue is really. I mean he's making threads about characters from the roster in MK9 and asking people to discuss how they felt about that particular character, what's wrong with that? He's generating much needed traffic and conversation to the MK2011 forum. If anything, he's breathing life into the boards. Fair play to him!

I would clarify a few things. Interpretations of what is being communicated have been lacklustre. The site has a new webmaster and is undertaking new measures to format and order itself. As a very broad edict, that is not the concern of users, it does not apply to their every interaction, it simply supplies it. This is the nature of the medium.

Likewise, there has been every measure taken to approach the subject with clear instruction, and contrary to popular myth, no effort to insult or disrespect anyone. Frankly, regardless of mob forming, the perpetuation of myth and interpretation isn't making the argument any more compelling or based in constructive truth. This is somewhat supported by the total disregard for any attempt to continue to discuss the topics, or support the content that is supposedly the inspiration for this response.

Everyone is welcome to discuss Mortal Kombat characters in the Mortal Kombat. Everyone is actively encouraged to do so in a direct and discernable manner. It would be preferred if that were more direct, and less like someone's independently relevant, picture blog; a type of post that we can expect every user to be allowed to make. We're trying to be sensitive to your interest in this stuff, just the same.

Staff are going to work to make sure everyone is able to enjoy the forums. Users need to return to using, and make an effort to back-up this talk about respect and respect the staff. Staff who are taking into account the expansion of this community beyond a group who are enthusiastic about a particular series of posts. A series of posts that will still be available to be discussed with the merest of alterations to the flow of conversation.

This is a simple directive that should intrude very little, with a fraction of effort. It is expected of everyone.

I don't know how some of you will choose to interpret the effort I'm making to communicate with you as I would any other person. I would suggest this is actually a sign of respect. We are engaging the topic, but no amount of bitching and moaning in unison is going to make it the issue you want it to be. Neither is claiming to be disrespected, or that we're suddenly in favour of SOPA. That is severely lacking perspective.

I can not believe what I was reading from the staff in Sonya's KOTW thread. It seemed like, some kind of 1984 moment. I literally could not take what the staff was saying seriously. It just ... I don't know. The KOTW threads were the highlight of the MK2011 forum. In fact, for me, there was nothing else worth reading in that forum. Wanting to combine all of the threads into one super thread is a poor idea. And shows poor judgment on the minds of the staff.

I run a separate forum, and whenever I want to make changes like this, I just open a poll and ask the user's on the site for their opinions. And we work together to make the community a better place. And that community has a separate character thread for each character in its own subforum.

As it stands, discussing where each character in MK stands in MK 2011 is a great idea. And allowing each character to have a safe haven to be isolated and discussed in their own thread was a great idea. Throwing everyone into one generic thread is a bad idea.

But I don't know. Reading Mick's posts, it seems that there appears to be bad blood and bias against Garlador. I have no idea about the history between those two, so I am just speculating, but I've got to say it's interesting to see Garlador's threads be targeted as a means to shutdown "Garlador Online" meanwhile something I've been put in charge of, SOTW, has been allowed to go on for 26 weeks with 26 separate threads, without any conflict.

If people want to discuss characters individually, they should feel encouraged to do so. With some clarity and direct relation to those characters, it will be much easier to support that. They should also feel safe in continuing existing discussions that may have slipped off the front page, if there's a genuine interest in the topic and a merited attempt to continue it.

Again, I would reiterate that comprehension and interpretation of what has been communicated has been woefully misplaced. Garlador has not been singled out for any reason other than his threads are of a very specific nature and would be preferably collected together in an area where people interested can continue to enjoy them. This is a simple concept of association. One that perhaps challenges new signs of creativity, and the conversational skills of the people following, but remains simple enough.

I would expect that many of you would be less interested in posts of the type featured were they posted by someone completely foreign to you, or containing references similarly unfamiliar. The reason to clarify that one persons name isn't in the title of the site is to explain in very plain terms that there needs to be consideration for the whole. A whole that is larger than people who enjoy reading Garlador's threads and have been encouraged to continue to do so, but have chosen to ignore that.

To the best of my knowledge, Garlador have had little to nothing to do with each other. Contriving some sort of malice out of a fairly obviously clerical directive is a work of fiction. As has been many of the perspectives and arguments.


Something that is more broadly recognised as community friendly, but yes. Something that has been under review. Just as another poster brought up a reference to the Strategy/Matchmaking forums, which were also pending the update that has been made.

I would like to address something that Espio said. Nowhere in my post did I say it was wrong to complain about this decision. You guys are doing what I have done on a number of occasions, and that's speak out against something you believe to be wrong. Its your right to do that. My point was simply that in the grand scheme of things, you're wasting your time. I mean no disrespect to anyone involved here, but given my experience behind the scenes, I know a thing or two about seeing arguments getting nothing done.

I just can't stop laughing at those who think MKO supports SOPA. You realize that SOPA and this dispute have nothing in common... I hope.

Bullshit, Mick





That's insulting as hell whether you intended it to be or not. Calling someone an attention whore is calling someone an attention whore no matter how you phrase it, and were it I you'd said that shit to I wouldn't even respect you enough to bother trying to talk to you.

Admin Edit: Mind your HTML tags. Cheers. - M.

If you check the banner, you'll find that it's blisteringly factual.

Individual users are expected to respect and accept that they are part of a larger community. A community larger than five, six, eight, ten, or twelve people who enjoy tone poem posts that could easily be posted on a blog, or shared in an individual thread with a minor tweaking of attention and conversational style. Nobody should be offended to learn the site does not revolve around them, by any small measure.

People should also be encouraged to respect the intended meaning of communication, particularly from a staff member. Wherever possible, they should also possess some amount of good humor, so as to better avoid the need for a clinical exchange. A clinical exchange that is perhaps being interpreted as somehow intimidating, or condescending.

You see that glib dismissive bullshit right there is what's got everyone up in fucking arms. Those comments weren't even necessary unless your goal was to say "Garlador, you're doing this because you want people to pay attention to you." Which is a grade A dick thing to say to someone who's done nothing but contribute positively and you know it.

Know what, folks? If this is the direction this site is headed, in which the liaison between the community and the staff is a condescending bag o' dicks you can count me out. Shit isn't even about Garlador's topics anymore. If this is the way you're going to act when you have a massive chunk of the most active members of the community against you, I shudder to think what'll happen to the little guys. So, this place deserves neither my hits nor my posts any longer.

Check the sig and click it while you're at it,

Adder Moray, out!

P.S. Shoot me a heads up if whoever's in charge ever gets their priorities straight.

Again, I can only encourage people to have a healthy sense of humor, and to make more of an effort to stop inventing their own context for what is being communicated. I am giving you considerable amount of time to address the topic and to try to clarify it to as great a degree as is possible. Obviously I cannot improve your feelings if you aren't interested in what's being communicated, as it's being communicated, jovial, affable, or otherwise.

To the present, the only people fixating on a personal exchange with Garlador are the people complaining. The people whose greatest interest seems to be a single thread in an entire community. A community that is in the process of attempting to rebuild and restructure, with perhaps the benefit of looking farther than this single topic.

I would preemptively reiterate that this fact is also not insulting or offensive.
Staff are in a position to fulfill a role. They are obligated to. How that role and obligation has been met in the past may have some relevance to the current state of affairs, but it is ultimately not part of moving forward.

After two days of moaning, it would be fantastic if users could make an effort to exist in this single, small, minor piece of direction, even if they can't embrace it. As I say, it would be a great benefit to the material that is the catalyst for the discussion, if some attention was actually cast on it.

Inventing outrage, disregarding fairly simplistic clerical logic, showing none of the respect that is being requested (with actual insults, as opposed to contrived interpretations), ignoring the actual posts and content you're supposedly in support of, and comparing your plight to the threat of serious issues (like SOPA), is of no help to anyone. It's a bit juvenile.

r.i.p. mk5.org... a place where we had fun for over 10 years but now it's all gone for good.

First up. Let's all stop bashing Mick like he's some sort of iron-fisted forum dictator or else we're never going to get anywhere with this. I agree at this point, all of the SOPA comments and their ilk are counterproductive. So in other words, can we all please cut that shit out? So where are we in agreeing on an amicable compromise? I understand that likely Garlador and Mick (and whatever other admins) have been exchanging PM's regarding the Super Thread idea (which has been consensually maligned for causing more clutter than it would alleviate from). Have no other ideas surfaced that would allow for a serial singular thread for each KOTW? Why not call them "Guest Articles" of some sort that allow them to continue structurally unhindered while remaining in accordance with the organizational policy. Again I would think you would want to encourage quality user created content that draws traffic...NOT deter it. Just because you type the words, "we acknowledge the creative time and effort spent with the KOTW, etc..." that doesn't make it true. Actually true acknowledgement would be an organized VESTED effort in the admins maintaining the thread series which simultaneously makes the statement again that we here at MKO are PROUD of such individual efforts and would like to see more user content of this quality. Because right now, falling back on "policy infringement and clerical issues" sends the exact OPPOSITE message. It devalues the very community you're trying to rebuild...all in the name of "policy and organization".

Well judging by the tone man, it does come across like there's a gripe with Garlador, and this is coming from a member who only joined last year and is relatively naive to the concept of MK Online's politics.

Not once did it ever comes across to anybody who followed those topics that it was in any way shape or form revolved around Garlador, it was always focused entirely on the character and that particular character's development in both the old and new timeline. If anything it was one of the only topics that cattered to all fanbases within the community and allowed fans for under-represented characters like Sheeva, Rain and Baraka to have their moment in discussing the character's evolution and future. Considering there was topics devoted to how badly animated Kitana's hair was, or how Sonya lacked an undershirt, I fail to see how this topic is even slightly comparable or any worse.

I'm sorry, I agree staff have a role to play but I just think your nitpicking at this point and dare I say it does look like an attack on Garlador, an attack you're attempting to reflect the blame on to him. He's created topics that kept the forums buzzing and actually got people to participate, and yet your making a stab at his character by stating it's not "Garlador Online". Nobody said it was but yourself Mick. Hold that against me if you want to but I'm only stating as an outsider that it does come across like there's an unneccesary chip on the shoulder towards him.

Much more vapid and uninteresting topics than the KOTW have been posted in the MK2011 forum that have survived solely on troll activity or petty complaints. Call it a staff decision all you want but your stamping out the community actually getting involved and discussing characters they like with your decisions in favour of less stimulating topics.

Seriously WTF is going on
this cant be serious right now

Mick, thanks for taking the time to write back. Now:

Excuse me, but, we are still waiting to hear how mixing over 20 of these kind of character discussions in one single huge thread is such a brilliant idea. I'm sorry, but, have you not paid attention to the users opinions?

How is this NOT going to be a messy and frustrating thread to read? How are we supposed to keep discussions on a specific character organized if we are going to go back, forward and back again between to all of these characters?

Everyone has already stated and explained (without teaming up against you as you make it sound, Mick) why this is:

1) a terrible idea
and
2) a stupid idea.

We are not against MKO becoming a better place (congrats for FINALLY fixing/updating the "Forum Listings", something people spoke about for ages!) or you, so, stop making it sound like thats what people are doing. OK?

There is a reason why more than just 3 people are complaining about the way you've addressed this situation, the way in which you have expressed your feelings, and the ultimate decision.

You keep saying there was no "offense" or "insults" and that its all "fiction" well, clearly, judging by your quoted comments, that's not the case.



"Bitching and moaning"...?

Sure, I guess that's whats convenient to call it.

It might not change your rules, but, people should not feel discouraged from voicing their opinion regardless.

I'm going to miss the KOTW posts. They were funny, interesting, and all around a good read. Too bad Kung Lao never made KOTW. I was really looking forward to what people thought about him.

I repeat: I haven't posed in MKO for a while and I had plans to come back to do so later (because I, honestly, still love this site), but, I just couldn't ignore this situation...

The saddest thing about this mess is that it could have been avoided had there been some kind of common sense:

Courtesy, politeness, humbleness and respect take you a long way.

This should be clear.

I wonder why you would think you can't have fun. There have been times in the sites past where more attentive moderation has existed, some people perhaps even consider these brighter times than the present. I won't get into that subject, but I will ask where that assumption is grounded.

To date, nobody has even made any attempt to exist in this brave new world where a series of threads have been asked to exist in a single thread. With a little effort, I don't expect much difference will be noted. Some forums out there have no rules, and others have far stricter restrictions on allowances and rules and format. Right now, you've barely experienced a change.


My interactions with Garlador (portions made public) were brief and intended to be to the point. It was never actually imagined that this type of reaction would explode from this decision.

While I have a great appreciation for cognitive deduction based on available information and experience (never a fan of the 'wait and see' reverse-troll phenomenon); I do have to express some skepticism about the problems a single thread will cause. I would like to think I could give you all much more credit for having conversational skills and the ability to marshall a static exchange of ideas. We often all maintain multiple narratives across the forum. This should be no different. It would be well within Garlador's means to try to help facilitate this shift, perhaps if he wanted to go fortnightly, that would help space things out. Again, to speak to the creative elements of the conundrum, there is a challenge and potential to explore the format.

Without wanting to speculate about the nature of traffic or the interest in Garladors posts with certainty (which I'm sure are interesting to many types of people), it does seem to be the type of thing that is likely to attract traffic within an existing, familiar install base. The vocal minority (in a community that potentially spans millions, based on traffic spikes) is already invested, so arguing the expansion of traffic is difficult to perceive as compelling. Its also not paying enough credence to the stark, impartial, clerical nature of the decision -- which is to invite a more generalized type of content across the forum, rather than suggesting every user is within their right to post a thread with their name on it, elaborating in an esoteric fashion that suits their interests.

To avoid getting bogged down in the "GKO" phenomenon, I would clarify that it isn't strictly about hypothetical anarchy. Although, this concept very clearly and cleanly illustrates a version of events that would not be attractive to many of you, and to many others. Again, this is to suggest that there needs to be understanding, recognition, and awarness of a very broad group that make-up the community, as it is, and as it will potentially be.

It hasn't been said clearly, but there may be room for review in future.
Context may provide some room to move, but we absolutely must see this done and given a proper chance. It is unlikely that we will accept weekly installments in this fashion. There may be intervals where it is suitable and fruitful to see how the conversation might expand, however.

Again, the creativity of these posts is appreciated, but you must recognise that their nature is not immediatelly accessible or applicable to the expected norms. That's a compliment to the content, but does require that it respectfully be maintained within itself.

I apologise if my language is wrapping around itself, but I am making the effort to, as I say, respect you all enough to take time to engage this with the tone and language I would of any fellow adult. I will appreciate it if this isn't fodder for inventing insult.


As I've said, I don't know where this would come from, and can only assume it's a misinterpretation of basic, shorthand analogies being made to communicate the situation. That "GKO" shorthand has become a fixation of confused meaning.

If people want to talk about animation and design and topics of that nature, they're encouraged to. Right now, if you so desire. Garlador's threads, while glancing these topics, do so in a way that is so individual, they challenge the expected nature of posts about topics. Love the creativity, but have to respect that there is some measure of clerical clinical requirements on a site that is trying to order itself.

Whether you're identifying other posts as vapid or not, those posts are always expected to be contained, without weekly serial, and without a veering perspective that removes them from the accessible nature of the forum. Again, we always encourage people to branch out into interests that include blogs and other popular forms of media. Enthusiastic fans are certainly more empowered than they've ever been, with these respects.

All we're asking is that conversation be kept in a single place.
Much as this conversation is being kept in a single place. A place where we're engaging some amount of a split narrative, but handling it, I hope.

There's no point eulogizing the content, particularly if the impetus of this discussion is appreciation for it. Right now, the only thing preventing these posts from continuing is Garlador's inclination to pursue them, and the derailing of his thread as experienced prior to this one. At some point, this has to be recognised as cold fact, and the new way has to at least be tried. If the content is king, pursue it. Reiterate its value and importance through constructive demonstration.

You know, I'm both surprised and genuinely touched you guys have poured out of the woodwork to speak out on this issue, either for or against. I've received an OVERWHELMING number of messages, easily two dozen or more, in support, and I'm thrilled and humbled you all care so much about my threads AND this community and site to speak out, be heard, and make your opinions known.

And I've been thinking on this for the past several days now. Now, granted, I STILL fully, 100% believe that what certain staff members are doing is very, very, VERY wrong, misguided, unnecessary, and disrespectful... but if they're that upset at me and my work, then I think I'd like to make a very bold suggestion.

MAKE ME A STAFF MEMBER.

Pure and simple, I think my content is BETTER than Mick-Lucifer gives it credit for. People who work for and write articles for Cracked.com (a primary inspiration for my KOTW threads) get PAID to do so. I've done this for the past 5 months for FREE and I believe they're WORTH something.

So... if people want them to continue, and MKO wants to truly have a "vision" for the future, then I boldly and proudly suggest you make me a paid contributor to this site and give me the responsibilities to update this site on a weekly basis with bold, creative, traffic-generating content. I know how to advertise. I know how to do website layout. I'm a 3D modeler. I'm seeking employment at Netherrealm Studios at this very moment.

So why not help me do that? Why not help support this site and this community by supporting my efforts OFFICIALLY (and FINANCIALLY)?

I realize that is basically the total OPPOSITE of how I've been treated thus far (consolidation, limit my reach, nip that "ego" in the bud), but here's the thing, and the kicker...

... NOBODY cares more about this community than I do. If you disagree, I'm sorry, but that's the truth. I've been here for over a decade. I'm still actively posting here. I'm still actively encouraging people to come here. My KOTW threads were entirely created to spur community conversation and involvement and I damn well succeeded.

So, MKO staff, how 'bout it? Make me a weekly article writer here on this site. Make this site better than it currently is. If there is no news, I damn well will MAKE news and GIVE us something to talk about. I've already proven I can do that. I've proven it for 5 months.

So give me the support, hype, and publicity to turn this around, make these lemons into sweet lemonade, and put smiles on everyone's faces again.

... And if that gets me closer to my dream job AND makes the entire community a better, more inviting place (not just a sterile collection of links and dead forums), then all the better, right?

Think it over and get back to me on that. I doubt you'll find many people so willing to work at this after such hard setbacks or as many opportunities as sweet as this offered up to you so willingly and eagerly.

... Though, *ahem*, that's if the community here approves.

Short answer: no.

It's not pop idol, and this is not the type of content we're pursuing.
As has been well documented, the change in staff has only been very recent. The directive is supported by plans to move ahead with content. Again, to the oft raised subject of respect, it's time to respect staff.

There has been some noise made about the outrageous suggestion that there is any element of attention seeking, intentional or otherwise. I'm not sure stunts like this do a lot to discredit that claim, whether it was intended to be of any weight, or otherwise.

And I'm asking you to MAKE me staff. Is there ANY reason not to? After all, respect is something EARNED and not freely given. I legitimately believe I've earned every ounce of respect I have and I have more passion, creativity, talent, and vision than most any fan of ANY franchise to apply those skills HERE. Why would you ever NOT want that?

But that completelty defeats the purpose of this website. Why should he have to make topics like that on a blog when that's what this website is for in the first place? Is MKO not for discussing the components and factors that make up Mortal Kombat as a whole?

You seem to be selectively picking out what you want to reply to mick. I've read the replies the admin staff have gotten in regards to this subject, and not one single member who's posted in correspondance (bar Moseph, who coincidentally was staff and happens to know you personally) agrees with the notion that:

A) The topics were causing any sort of messy appearance or disorientation

B) That change was even necessary to begin with

C) That merging the topics into one amalgamated topic would work or would benefit the subject under discussion

and

D) That Garlador was in any way shape or form getting any sort of special treatment in comparisson to other members or even seeking attention.

You're making it out like we're the ones nitpicking what you've said and instigating an arguement, when in fact it was your specific wording and implied tone that have made it crystal clear that you were being condescending, rude, and demeaning to Garlador.

The first attempt people had at trying to voice an opinion on this, you locked to prevent further discussion, and then when it was carried over by fans onto Sonya's Thread to express that the community disagreed with the decision to merge the threads, you took advantage of the fact people were unhappy with your deliverance and tone and eventually locked that topic too under the pretense that the discussion had deviated away from her character. Did it feel good shutting that one down too, or is that just another odd coincidence?

Nobody is against the forums changing, and not one person has said so far that they are. What people are voicing up against is a very apparent case of meglomaniac behaviour which is beyond borderline insulting to another active, contributing member for his efforts. The futile attempts to portray the rest of us as the ones who are instigating drama is only demeaning your own arguement and highlighting the fact that you still refuse to apologise or accept responsibility for abusing your position to make a very public, bitter remark for no relevant reason whatsoever.

Say what you like in regards to the matter but many have noticed you were being dog ignorant and spiteful to him, and as a community we first and foremost disagree with the tone you took but we also hugely disagree with the idea that his threads were causing any sort of disturbance or self promotion.

Members of your site have spoken, and you've gotten your feedback. All that's due now is your apology to him and for you to admitt you were being spitefull under the guise of professionalism.