Music & Copyrights, can they coexist?
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Music & Copyrights, can they coexist?
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posted09/11/2004 04:37 PM (UTC)by

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12/12/2003 01:14 PM (UTC)
Now many of you may know that I'm not a huge fan of music. Long before current, I've scrutinized the business side of it, aside from that I just find most of it to be...bad. But I am fascinated by some of the ethical questions that arise from the current music industry: Piracy, Privacy, and everything in between. For most, music is a way of releasing emotions, feeling good, bad, or whatever. But as music prices rise, and the music it self becomes more "manufactured" it starts to have a huge impact on society as a whole.
1. Is pirating music ok? Everyone says, "I just download it to listen, if I like it, then I'll buy." Is that a valid argument? Does the rising prices for CDs make pirating music ok? How about the whole concept of there not being enough songs that are good on one album?
2. Do you believe it should be illegal to break copy righted material? Example of getting around DRM to burn a copy of a cd.
3. Online music. iTMS, MSN, Napster, etc etc. Do you support this new wave of music? It is limited by software, preventing you from burning a playlist so many times, etc. Would you ever buy from this kind of store? How do you feel about your credit card number online? Are the prices reasonable, average of $1 per song.
4. Do you own a MP3 player?
5. How do you see these things changing other forms of media, such as television, movies, books, etc.?
6. How do you feel about the RIAA suing people? Are they being too hard on people? Are they breaking privacy rights to find people in violation of these laws?
7. Have you ever pirated music? Movies? Games? Software? else?
Here are a few good articles, with lots of information:
The Pirate Act is a law that is close to being passed.
"Under provisions of the Pirate Act, those found to have distributed over 1,000 songs over P2P networks would face up to 3 years in prison."
3 years in prison? Is this too harsh? I think it might be...can you imagine having like a 18 year old kid go to prison for 3 years because he shared music?
Now it looks like a P2P company is suing the RIAA for, get this, copy right theft! That's gold...
"Altnet is suing the RIAA and several of its partners of pirating its patent covering technology for identifying requested files on a P2P network. According to IDG Altnet sent cease-and-desist letters to a number of companies, telling them to stop using its technology to bugger up P2P networks with bogus files."
This brings up another important question, is it OK to break the law to enforce it? The RIAA is MUCH bigger than Altnet, and Altnet probably won't win, but is it fair? The RIAA is big and rich, they have government ties...is it right for them to violate some peoples copyrights to protect others?
According to The Inquirer, under the Millennium Copyright Act, Sampling is now piracy. Now some of you more musically inclined, please correct me if I'm wrong, but this seems like a BIG deal!
"Until yesterday an artist only had to pay for samples that were fairly large.
However, thanks to the new ruling musicians will have to pay out for snippets smaller notes, chords and beats that are not the artist's original composition, it seems.
[...]
At the center of the argument was the 1990 NWA song "100 Miles and Runnin' which sampled a three-note guitar riff from a 1975 Funkadelic track about the art of combining riding and making preservatives called "Get Off Your Ass and Jam." NWA lowered the pitch of the sample, which was only two seconds long but is looped to extend to 16 beats and appears five times throughout the track.
[...]
The court said that an artist who acknowledges that she or he made use of another artist's work may be liable."
Wow. The article goes on to say that this could cost rappers and techno artists lots of money.
How do you feel about this?
And I'm sure many of you know much more about it than myself so please feel free to add things I left out
Edit: And let me follow up with this...Is music too corporate? What is music about? Isn't it about sharing and community? What happens when the majority of music is controlled by a few corporations? How should the artist feel? For those of you who are musicians, I'm especially interested in what you'll have to say.
1. Is pirating music ok? Everyone says, "I just download it to listen, if I like it, then I'll buy." Is that a valid argument? Does the rising prices for CDs make pirating music ok? How about the whole concept of there not being enough songs that are good on one album?
2. Do you believe it should be illegal to break copy righted material? Example of getting around DRM to burn a copy of a cd.
3. Online music. iTMS, MSN, Napster, etc etc. Do you support this new wave of music? It is limited by software, preventing you from burning a playlist so many times, etc. Would you ever buy from this kind of store? How do you feel about your credit card number online? Are the prices reasonable, average of $1 per song.
4. Do you own a MP3 player?
5. How do you see these things changing other forms of media, such as television, movies, books, etc.?
6. How do you feel about the RIAA suing people? Are they being too hard on people? Are they breaking privacy rights to find people in violation of these laws?
7. Have you ever pirated music? Movies? Games? Software? else?
Here are a few good articles, with lots of information:
The Pirate Act is a law that is close to being passed.
"Under provisions of the Pirate Act, those found to have distributed over 1,000 songs over P2P networks would face up to 3 years in prison."
3 years in prison? Is this too harsh? I think it might be...can you imagine having like a 18 year old kid go to prison for 3 years because he shared music?
Now it looks like a P2P company is suing the RIAA for, get this, copy right theft! That's gold...
"Altnet is suing the RIAA and several of its partners of pirating its patent covering technology for identifying requested files on a P2P network. According to IDG Altnet sent cease-and-desist letters to a number of companies, telling them to stop using its technology to bugger up P2P networks with bogus files."
This brings up another important question, is it OK to break the law to enforce it? The RIAA is MUCH bigger than Altnet, and Altnet probably won't win, but is it fair? The RIAA is big and rich, they have government ties...is it right for them to violate some peoples copyrights to protect others?
According to The Inquirer, under the Millennium Copyright Act, Sampling is now piracy. Now some of you more musically inclined, please correct me if I'm wrong, but this seems like a BIG deal!
"Until yesterday an artist only had to pay for samples that were fairly large.
However, thanks to the new ruling musicians will have to pay out for snippets smaller notes, chords and beats that are not the artist's original composition, it seems.
[...]
At the center of the argument was the 1990 NWA song "100 Miles and Runnin' which sampled a three-note guitar riff from a 1975 Funkadelic track about the art of combining riding and making preservatives called "Get Off Your Ass and Jam." NWA lowered the pitch of the sample, which was only two seconds long but is looped to extend to 16 beats and appears five times throughout the track.
[...]
The court said that an artist who acknowledges that she or he made use of another artist's work may be liable."
Wow. The article goes on to say that this could cost rappers and techno artists lots of money.
How do you feel about this?
And I'm sure many of you know much more about it than myself so please feel free to add things I left out
Edit: And let me follow up with this...Is music too corporate? What is music about? Isn't it about sharing and community? What happens when the majority of music is controlled by a few corporations? How should the artist feel? For those of you who are musicians, I'm especially interested in what you'll have to say.
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I've been thinking about this lately, and i'm not really sure where i stand anymore. I'm kinda sitting on the fence.
If things really have turned this ruthless, things don't look too good for genres like reggae. If some wanker gets a little high and mighty, it could be a legal disaster.
If things really have turned this ruthless, things don't look too good for genres like reggae. If some wanker gets a little high and mighty, it could be a legal disaster.


About Me
Anything war can do, peace can do better.
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krackerjack Wrote: I'm kinda sitting on the fence. |
I feel kind of the same. I'm very much on the fence.
1. Yes. It's exposed me to so many artists it's insane. I've bought at least 50 CDs that I would have never known about it piracy hadn't existed.
2. It's already is illegal. I don't really care about it, though, because I never ask people to burn me CDs.
3. Bleep is awesome. All of Warp and planet-Mu's back catalogue available online. The price is way too high, though. I think it's 1.29 per song. I guess it's higher becuase the quality of the songs is much better than on the mainstream labels.
4. Yes.
5. Not at this point.
6. They are out of touch idiots. They needed something to blame because their precious labels crank out shit.
7. Yes, yes, yes, yes.
2. It's already is illegal. I don't really care about it, though, because I never ask people to burn me CDs.
3. Bleep is awesome. All of Warp and planet-Mu's back catalogue available online. The price is way too high, though. I think it's 1.29 per song. I guess it's higher becuase the quality of the songs is much better than on the mainstream labels.
4. Yes.
5. Not at this point.
6. They are out of touch idiots. They needed something to blame because their precious labels crank out shit.
7. Yes, yes, yes, yes.


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Hyuga, What MP3 player do you own?
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1) Yes, I have gotten to listen to many different types of music. Many artists now release a CD with very few good songs in it. When I buy a CD I usually only listen to 3 songs because the rest just suck.
2) Don?t Know.
3) I have used napster and yes I do think the price for one song is pretty expensive.
4) Not now.
5) Haven?t seen anything yet.
6) I do think they are too hard on people, haven?t heard any news about them lately. Kazaa.com just posted this up, well I think so, since I have just seen it now. Talks about how to stay 100% legal. Here is a link if you haven?t already seen it.
http://www.mp3downloading.com/shared/support/legal.htm
7) Only music.
2) Don?t Know.
3) I have used napster and yes I do think the price for one song is pretty expensive.
4) Not now.
5) Haven?t seen anything yet.
6) I do think they are too hard on people, haven?t heard any news about them lately. Kazaa.com just posted this up, well I think so, since I have just seen it now. Talks about how to stay 100% legal. Here is a link if you haven?t already seen it.
http://www.mp3downloading.com/shared/support/legal.htm
7) Only music.


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1.By me it is alright,I feel all governments make too big of a deal about it.
2.If something disables it,I dont do it.Dont copy a cd if they have a lock on it.
3.I dont use them.
4.No.
5.They get paranoid about everything nowadays.They see something happen and think everyone is doing it.
6.I think that this is a bunch of bs.
7.All I ever pirate is music.And the last time I did it was like 3-4 months ago.I do it when I want a cd with all my favorite songs on it.
2.If something disables it,I dont do it.Dont copy a cd if they have a lock on it.
3.I dont use them.
4.No.
5.They get paranoid about everything nowadays.They see something happen and think everyone is doing it.
6.I think that this is a bunch of bs.
7.All I ever pirate is music.And the last time I did it was like 3-4 months ago.I do it when I want a cd with all my favorite songs on it.


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Anything war can do, peace can do better.
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What do you guys think of the whole Sampling is now piracy thing?


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born-again-vampire Wrote: What do you guys think of the whole Sampling is now piracy thing? |
I really think its a bunch of bs.Its called sampling for a reason,I also have nothing against burning cds (downloading songs and making a cd of your own).I mean,if its so illegal,then why did they ever make cd burners?Same with dvd burners,if its so illegal,why do they not do anything about them.I have been saying that for a while now.They dont want us doing it,yet they supply the equipment to do it.How stupid is that?


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1. Try before you Buy is a valid argument, but only if you're true to it. A lot of piraters aren't. I like to pride myself on being true to it when I can afford it; since I started buying the CDs I liked I've downloaded quite a bit less and just ripped my own stuff. CD inflation doesn't justify pirating. Not enough songs on the album? Find compilations.
2. It shouldn't be illegal. If I want to make a backup copy of my CDs/DVDs/Games so I can keep the originals in a safe place away from damage, theft, and general riff-raff, damned if I'm not going to do it. It's my right as a consumer to not want to have to buy a second copy.
3. I'm not against Online Music. I'm not fully supportive of it, either, though. I don't buy into it, but I do think $1 a song is reasonable, with 11-track CDs selling for $20. ~_~
4. My Palm pilot is capable of it but I don't use it for that.
5. Only time will tell :| (Translation: "Buh?")
6. The RIAA is a bunch of corporate junkies using Copy Right and Piracy as an excuse to ensure themselves even more money. Thankfully I prefer Indie music to anything They offer. ;) It is an invasion of pirac... er, privacy. What I do on my computer is my business, so long as it remains a victimless crime if a crime at all.
7. Only music, and only Indie. I like to share to help burn holes in others' wallets. ^_^
And the illegality of Sampling is crap. Sampling is the same as making a collage in the Visual art world, and that isn't illegal yet.
2. It shouldn't be illegal. If I want to make a backup copy of my CDs/DVDs/Games so I can keep the originals in a safe place away from damage, theft, and general riff-raff, damned if I'm not going to do it. It's my right as a consumer to not want to have to buy a second copy.
3. I'm not against Online Music. I'm not fully supportive of it, either, though. I don't buy into it, but I do think $1 a song is reasonable, with 11-track CDs selling for $20. ~_~
4. My Palm pilot is capable of it but I don't use it for that.
5. Only time will tell :| (Translation: "Buh?")
6. The RIAA is a bunch of corporate junkies using Copy Right and Piracy as an excuse to ensure themselves even more money. Thankfully I prefer Indie music to anything They offer. ;) It is an invasion of pirac... er, privacy. What I do on my computer is my business, so long as it remains a victimless crime if a crime at all.
7. Only music, and only Indie. I like to share to help burn holes in others' wallets. ^_^
And the illegality of Sampling is crap. Sampling is the same as making a collage in the Visual art world, and that isn't illegal yet.


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Anything war can do, peace can do better.
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RammSPOOn Wrote: Sampling is the same as making a collage in the Visual art world, and that isn't illegal yet. |
Maybe it is???


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I Have Become as the Wastelands of Unending Nothingness. Now Shall the Night Things Fill Me with their Whisperings, and the Shadows Reveal their Wisdom.
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1. I think it's okay as long as you don't download entire albums.
2. In other words, burn a CD just to share it? Eh, I have mixed feeling about this one...
3. I used Napster when it first came out, then I used Kazaa, but I don't use it anymore because it causes so many problems with my computer. Most of the songs I download now are from band or record label sites, so it's perfectly legal.
4. No.
5. Don't know.
6. Damn greedy bastards.
7. I used to download a lot of music with Napster, and later, Kazaa, not anymore though.
2. In other words, burn a CD just to share it? Eh, I have mixed feeling about this one...
3. I used Napster when it first came out, then I used Kazaa, but I don't use it anymore because it causes so many problems with my computer. Most of the songs I download now are from band or record label sites, so it's perfectly legal.
4. No.
5. Don't know.
6. Damn greedy bastards.
7. I used to download a lot of music with Napster, and later, Kazaa, not anymore though.


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1. I think piracy is bad in any situation. Bad for the greedy record companies.
2. No, if I have to pay 20 bucks for a cd, imma make up for it by burning, as i dont do anymore but still...
3. a dollar a song, nope, i dont like it. 50 cents is more like it
4. no
5. I dont
6. i feel... nothing
7. yes. music only
2. No, if I have to pay 20 bucks for a cd, imma make up for it by burning, as i dont do anymore but still...
3. a dollar a song, nope, i dont like it. 50 cents is more like it
4. no
5. I dont
6. i feel... nothing
7. yes. music only
I can understand their stance if you're talking about Puff Daddy, who just likes to add new drums onder old tracks. Completely retarded. Requires no talent.
Now, if you're somebody like Doormouse who destroys and rearranges samples in such a way that you can't even recognize them, it's fine with me.
PS - I have a Rio. Getting a new one soon, though.
Now, if you're somebody like Doormouse who destroys and rearranges samples in such a way that you can't even recognize them, it's fine with me.
born-again-vampire Wrote: What do you guys think of the whole Sampling is now piracy thing? |
PS - I have a Rio. Getting a new one soon, though.


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1. Yes. Only if you only grab singles and not an entire album?.
2. If your only making a back up for yourself alone, then it should be fine. Same with DVD's
3. Yes. Is' s form of advertising in a way. The labels should be happy they exist? No. I'm never throwing my credit card number to an unseccrue place. $1 per song is a bit high. .75 should be good enough.
4. I'm rockin a Rio. I'm gonna upgrade ti an iPod eventually.
5. I think reading books on a palm or some other equivalent is cool. Movies is a dicey one.
6. I think they should FIRST send a warning to people as they did initially, Now they're just sending notices that they are being sued w/o a warning.
It's obviously a technology that isn't going to go away, do the record labels are going to have to adapt to the new trend.
However, some of these people who are downloading entire albums need to be stopped. I just snag singles to see if I should buy the album. I've been screwed so many times when I buy an album that I thought was going to be phat, only to be dissapointed! I wanna listen to 2-5 songs to be sure that I'm not going to waste my money. If I like what I hear from the selections I've downloaded, THEN I'll go and buy the album or make it a point to. I've never snagged entire albums cause it's not nessecary, at least for me.
Yes. They are being too hard on people. OH MY YES! Persuading the ISP's to give up names or do their dirty work for them and all. HUH!
7. I've already explained how I go about getting music. I draw a line at movies. I'd rather go and enjoy the theatre experience with the audience.
Software....... I'll only say this. For a college student who's studying graphic design, he's going to need 3-8 programs(Quark, Freehand, Photoshop, Illustrator, Flash, Dreamweaver, InDesign, Go Live) to master or to be fairly knowledgable in order to obtain a job. The student discount ones that are offered aren't much of a discount to offer to students who have loans to consider and can't just buy such expensive software just like that.
If the companies give REAL discounts to students that are more helpfull than the ones that they give now, such practices, though they may still occur, won't be a serious as it is now.
GD
2. If your only making a back up for yourself alone, then it should be fine. Same with DVD's
3. Yes. Is' s form of advertising in a way. The labels should be happy they exist? No. I'm never throwing my credit card number to an unseccrue place. $1 per song is a bit high. .75 should be good enough.
4. I'm rockin a Rio. I'm gonna upgrade ti an iPod eventually.
5. I think reading books on a palm or some other equivalent is cool. Movies is a dicey one.
6. I think they should FIRST send a warning to people as they did initially, Now they're just sending notices that they are being sued w/o a warning.
It's obviously a technology that isn't going to go away, do the record labels are going to have to adapt to the new trend.
However, some of these people who are downloading entire albums need to be stopped. I just snag singles to see if I should buy the album. I've been screwed so many times when I buy an album that I thought was going to be phat, only to be dissapointed! I wanna listen to 2-5 songs to be sure that I'm not going to waste my money. If I like what I hear from the selections I've downloaded, THEN I'll go and buy the album or make it a point to. I've never snagged entire albums cause it's not nessecary, at least for me.
Yes. They are being too hard on people. OH MY YES! Persuading the ISP's to give up names or do their dirty work for them and all. HUH!
7. I've already explained how I go about getting music. I draw a line at movies. I'd rather go and enjoy the theatre experience with the audience.
Software....... I'll only say this. For a college student who's studying graphic design, he's going to need 3-8 programs(Quark, Freehand, Photoshop, Illustrator, Flash, Dreamweaver, InDesign, Go Live) to master or to be fairly knowledgable in order to obtain a job. The student discount ones that are offered aren't much of a discount to offer to students who have loans to consider and can't just buy such expensive software just like that.
If the companies give REAL discounts to students that are more helpfull than the ones that they give now, such practices, though they may still occur, won't be a serious as it is now.
GD


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the bands i listen to like tom petty and the heartbreakrs ARE FOR downloading music. i have had downlaoded songs before that i own on cd. people make millions of dollars and a few download songs will not ruin the music industry. all the people that are in the music industry for the money should get the hell out of the business. ur a damn musican for one reason. u love playing music. its basically rappers and crappy whore singers that sue of piracey and copy right crap. the music is so fucked up a novel couldnt explain all of the bull thats in the bussiness.
also i believe like someone posted above kazaa is a legal downloading program. just have to follow rules.
if there pulling 30 mill and they lost 500 k because of downlaoding so what. thats just an example folks.
the music industry has been hell since the 70's. when disco ruled u were in the busneses for a one hit wonder and to get rich quick. if you were a rock band then you were in it for the fans and music. bands wouldnt be discarded if they had one bad album like todays artist are like.
in the 80's music was about makeing a quick profit and excess booze and drugs flowed.
in the 90's to today grunge was rock that was for the music not the money. rap is the slogan for money is good and so is greed. this buble gum crap like boy bands and young singers are saying that being a slut is ok.
and why shouldn't people download music? if i took a picture of something and put it on the computer and let people download it or save it why cant i get a dollar for each person that downloads it? it cost me money to buy the camera and try to make ur money back by charing the people money so i can my money back. but normal people or mostly everyone doesnt charge u to download picture. some thing with music. why cant u download a song? music cd's are to much today. cd's run for 20 to 25 dollars and there is no such thing as a single like they use to have on cassete so why cant u download a song? music industry is corrupt and bullshit industry. another thing all the people downloading music are teenagers who dont have jobs. they dont have money to buy a cd so downloading is there option. everyone weather they will admit it or not everyone downloads music. i gurantee 60% of america downloads music.
i am for downloading music although i have stopped. i for got to mention that yes i have download 2 full albums 25 songs in total. why u may ask? its the traveling wilburys volume 1 and 3 (there were only 2 people dont worry). i download the full albums because u cant buy those albums anymore because the warner bros got in a fight with tom petty, george harrison, bob dylan and jeff lyne about the album so they stoped producing the album.
also i believe like someone posted above kazaa is a legal downloading program. just have to follow rules.
if there pulling 30 mill and they lost 500 k because of downlaoding so what. thats just an example folks.
the music industry has been hell since the 70's. when disco ruled u were in the busneses for a one hit wonder and to get rich quick. if you were a rock band then you were in it for the fans and music. bands wouldnt be discarded if they had one bad album like todays artist are like.
in the 80's music was about makeing a quick profit and excess booze and drugs flowed.
in the 90's to today grunge was rock that was for the music not the money. rap is the slogan for money is good and so is greed. this buble gum crap like boy bands and young singers are saying that being a slut is ok.
and why shouldn't people download music? if i took a picture of something and put it on the computer and let people download it or save it why cant i get a dollar for each person that downloads it? it cost me money to buy the camera and try to make ur money back by charing the people money so i can my money back. but normal people or mostly everyone doesnt charge u to download picture. some thing with music. why cant u download a song? music cd's are to much today. cd's run for 20 to 25 dollars and there is no such thing as a single like they use to have on cassete so why cant u download a song? music industry is corrupt and bullshit industry. another thing all the people downloading music are teenagers who dont have jobs. they dont have money to buy a cd so downloading is there option. everyone weather they will admit it or not everyone downloads music. i gurantee 60% of america downloads music.
i am for downloading music although i have stopped. i for got to mention that yes i have download 2 full albums 25 songs in total. why u may ask? its the traveling wilburys volume 1 and 3 (there were only 2 people dont worry). i download the full albums because u cant buy those albums anymore because the warner bros got in a fight with tom petty, george harrison, bob dylan and jeff lyne about the album so they stoped producing the album.
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Oh, i've no doubt about the sampling thing though.
I find that ludicrous.
How can somebody own a sound or sounds?
If people like *pop celebrity here* want to almost directly rip music off and butcher it into some bastardized modern day "hip hop" tragedy by "sampling" music for a large part of their track, then it's the worlds responsibility to say "You're a fucking theif. We hate you." and not buy their music. Of course, this would never happen, but i don't think even that should be illegal (as much as i hate when popstars do that).
Permission would be a nice thing to look at though. Maybe just giving a small manadtory cut to the original artist (or their family or whoever) would work, if something had to be done about it. Though this wouldn't really solve anything.
I find that ludicrous.
How can somebody own a sound or sounds?
If people like *pop celebrity here* want to almost directly rip music off and butcher it into some bastardized modern day "hip hop" tragedy by "sampling" music for a large part of their track, then it's the worlds responsibility to say "You're a fucking theif. We hate you." and not buy their music. Of course, this would never happen, but i don't think even that should be illegal (as much as i hate when popstars do that).
Permission would be a nice thing to look at though. Maybe just giving a small manadtory cut to the original artist (or their family or whoever) would work, if something had to be done about it. Though this wouldn't really solve anything.


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so are u for against or u just bashing the modern day pop music crap.
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travelingwilbury Wrote: so are u for against or u just bashing the modern day pop music crap. |
No.
Did you only read the second paragraph of my post?
Within the first 2 lines i indicated where i stood on sampling.


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sampling has gotten rediculous, i download music for free the way it should be listened to. Most artists dont make much money from the sales and most artists cant even be considered artists now a days. These people dont even deserve the amount of money they get so they should consider themselves lucky and shut up and stop bitching. Downloading music gives people an opportunity to make "my favorites" type of cd's. Nobody wants to go out and buy 16 cd's for 16 songs. People still buy cd's and the so called artists dont lose much at all. Just watch the fabulous life of "enter name here".
I pirate music alot and i have software twice before. I bought a new computer and with a dvd burner but no program to burn dvd's. The cd burner program said i needed to pay $50 for the dvd burning upgrade and $50 for a file converter. I said fuck that and downloaded it for free which should have been free with the computer. Its bullshit that i would have had to pay $100 more to use my hardware.
I pirate music alot and i have software twice before. I bought a new computer and with a dvd burner but no program to burn dvd's. The cd burner program said i needed to pay $50 for the dvd burning upgrade and $50 for a file converter. I said fuck that and downloaded it for free which should have been free with the computer. Its bullshit that i would have had to pay $100 more to use my hardware.
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