You sure about that, chico?

Li Mei looked like that in MKDA because she was Quan and Shang made her their slave. And given the weird kinky stuff Shang is probably into, I'm surprised she didn't look more scantly.

As for MK women in general, it's very case by case to me. Sonya is a good example of someone who shouldn't look like a whore. Ever.

You win MKO for today.

This topic has indeed been discussed almost too much. I will say that for me personally character designs get into trouble when the sexual aspect is played up to an extreme level. A point where you just have to conclude that an outfit has literally been designed for no other reason than "lol boobies."

During my early years making art and coming up with character designs for MK characters that may or may not still exist somewhere on this site that was how I thought. Why? Because I was a 19/20/21 year old dude that really dug female anatomy. The immaturity and juvenile-ness wasn't apparent to me because I didn't care and just subconsciously wanted something that had pure sleazy sex appeal.

Nowadays as an older and far more educated dude I just get bored with it. Even avoiding the feminist ally side of me the costumes (especially in MK9) just reek of immaturity at best and artistic laziness at worst. Surely a badass yet practical yet still sexy design can exist but instead you get what essentially boils down to exotic lingerie or swimwear. It's just boring for me now. It's like "ok there's Kitana and her ass is oozing out of her bikini dress...thing...cool I guess but I'm kind of over it."

Now there is something to say regarding tradition and/or the fiction aspects regarding the way characters are depicted. These things can be debated. I have to say though I like where this new MK Is going in regard to all the character designs as it looks like a LOT of thought and care was crafted into them. Good on NRS.

And once again, I must ask: what is wrong with whores? And why is it so bad for Sonya to look like one, if indeed whores dress like that? She's still portrayed as a strong and independent woman. Also, in her case, her outfits from MK1 to 4, especially her MK3 design, gave her a kind of gymnastic appeal, imo. Those outfits helped showcase her athleticism.

Your comment regarding Li Mei's design sounds...immature. Like there's no way she'd naturally want to wear that, no, she must have been forced to wear it. You do realize some women (and men) just like wearing skimpy clothes, don't you? And there's nothing wrong with that.

@The_Truth
What exactly is sleazy about about scantily-clad/naked women? And why wouldn't heavily sexualized characters be "badass"? If your reaction to sexualized designs is nothing more than "lol boobies", in your mind, then it's partially your problem, as your first reaction is to think that the design alone is degrading, regardless of how the character is portrayed.


For the record, I'm not saying fully-dressed characters are inherently bad and boring. I liked Ashrash's primary outfit, Sonya's military alt from MK:DA, Li Mei's samurai alt, and both of Jill Valentine's outfits in RE5, just to mention a few. But I don't view such outfits as necessary in order to make a character "respectable". They can start dressing women in more "practical" outfits, like the men, if they want. But freaking out when they show a lot of skin is laughable.

What people should care about is how women are portrayed, as individuals. If they're treated like shit, then it doesn't matter if they're fully dressed or not. If anyone really thinks being fully dressed alone is empowering, well, tell that to women in most of the middle east. I think TemporaryUserName's reply highlights one particular fact; that some people don't think women can voluntarily, and proudly, wear clothes like Li Mei's. Why not say women hate sex, while we're at it?

Gotta admit the topic is getting somewhat boring to me as it has literally been discussed to death with active topics in other forums...but ok I'll humor you. I think you're straw-manning my view just a teeny bit yeah? We're dealing with socially constructed values which are always subjective at best. However coming from my perspective the depiction of the females in MK9 were hyper sexualized for the sake of objectification; even apparently Ed Boon has admitted this much during this past E3. Was there a reason why the battle damage for females largely resulted in losing what little clothing they had as opposed to the grotesque mutilation given to the male fighters? Was there a reason nearly every female character was given less to wear than any of their previous video game incarnations? Was there a reason no female characters were really depicted as anything other than side characters or damsels in distress? Was there a reason Jade did a pole dance as a victory celebration? I mean shit Johnny Cage beat the shit out of Sonya because she refused his sexual advances.

Now, consider these questions in regard to our patriarchal society...and consider further what it means to have this game created largely by men for a primarily male fanbase. Have the female characters really been given a fair treatment? Really? Honestly? Think carefully about this.

We're dealing with socially constructed subjectivity here though like I said so really any stance on this subject could technically be defended here even on the shakiest of grounds.

Again as my view stands as an artist I found the character designs in MK9 to be immature and lazy; and I don't say this lightly as I fully understand how difficult it is to both create a video game on conceptual, financial, and managerial levels. The women in MK9 were not depicted as powerful IMO (and again even Ed Boon admitted as such). There were no prior precedence put forth in the various characters' incarnations to warrant how they were shown in MK9 (except Mileena and even this could be debated on the concept of objectification). If you could provide evidence contrary to this I'd of course listen.

Sonya's design is not grounded in anything. Even if one could rationalize a military official wearing that sort of uniform, the revealing thong and high heals make no sense. There's a billion ways to make a character look athletic.

I don't mind a character wearin minimalist costumes if there's a reason. If you worked for Kahn or were Edenian royalty, you probably didn't wear a lot of clothing. Sonya has no excuse, though. She looked like fan service because that's exactly what she was. There's no in-game reason to justify her appearance like there is for Li Mei.


I mean, did I say anything incorrect? That is the in-game explanation for her appearance. Maybe she does dig the look, but are we given any reason to believe that in the game? I think it's way more likely she resents the costume because she's being forced to wear it.
EDIT: And another point. I'm not saying that costume looks bad. Li Mei's costume looked cool. That's just one of many artistic standards, though. Good costumes must meet further criteria. Sonya is a different story, though. That costume looks bad even if they justified it within the story.


It's true that some women decide to where less clothing for the sake of it. However, that is not a default position of general females. Most women do not dress like strippers. If that's the case for an MK character, then it's up to the developers to clarify why she looks like that. A good artist/writer doesn't put the burden on the audience to assume character motives.

Some games do this. Morrigan from Dark Stalkers is a good example. She's a seductress, so it's essential to her character that she dresses like hot shit.

Wut!?!?! Nowhere did I come even close to saying anything of that nature.

Nah...

None of the female characters in MK9 have any kind of legitimate profession except for Sonya. And her profession would never allow her to dress like she did in MK9 in a million years.

For me it greatly diminished her character. She was the exception to the rule and now after MK9 (and DA), she's been reduced to just another set of knockers.

Chris Redfield in the sailor outfit looks like a stripper, and the Borat-kini guy looks like super weird, and a lot of female characters either like strippers or super weird as well. And I'm fine with that as long it's in character for them. For example:

-Voldo from Soul Calibur: weird/disturbing

-Great Fairy from Ocarina of time: weird/disturbing

-Mileena from Mortal Kombat: slutty very provocative personality

but characters like Chris Redfield or Sonya Blade are very disciplined characters in games that are somewhat dark; they should be dressed to reflect their characters. Things like sailor suit Chris is obviously fan service, though and it's an alternate skin, so I'm fine with that. I wish Sonya had a more serious primary costume and save the sexy FBI stripper costume for an alt.

@The_Truth
I'll admit that you have some points, like Johnny and Sonya fighting because Sonya rejected Johnny. I also did dislike Jade's victory pose, because it wasn't really in character for her. But, you see, the sexualized designs themselves shouldn't be blamed. Women being thought as either strong or weak shouldn't be decided on their appearances. One mistake many make is to assume that women wearing "whorish" clothes instantly degrades them, and really seem to believe that "serious" or "practical" or "realistic" outfits alone instantly empower female characters.

Sometimes, it's like some people want to make women respectable in the eyes of chauvinistic losers, when these assholes will never, ever respect women, no matter how they're dressed. They think that women's only quality is sex appeal, so you take that away and they'll have no more reason to even remotely care about women. So fuck them (the chauvinists, duh). What will help women in fiction is to be portrayed as strong, smart and independent, and they can still have those traits no matter how they're dressed. Do you really think mysogynists will be indifferent to a "whorish" woman kicking the asses of revered "manly" men like Solid Snake or Master Chief, just because they're dressed in "whorish" clothes (as in, too distracted to care)? No, they'll lose it. And it'd be beautiful to watch.

@johnny1up, and SwingBatta
You see, I have a problem with this whole "disciplined" thing, as many seem to automathically equate that with "constipated", and "insecure". I don't care how "illegitimate" such designs are, because it's fiction, because it doesn't stop me from taking them seriously as characters (makes them more fun, in fact), and because, quite frankly, I don't care much for the military. And like I've already said before, SwingBatta, when I look at an heavily sexualized character, I don't find myself thinking that said character is just a piece of meat, or knockers, like you do, apparently.

Another thing I'll say again is this: I'm perfectly fine with women wearing more "practical" and "serious" outfits, or men being sexualized more. I believe in gender equality. But sexualized designs aren't, in themselves, degrading. Think about the most sexist depiction of women you ever saw in fiction. Let's say the women were portrayed as bimbos, damsels in distress, mere rewards for the macho douchebag "hero", and also were scantily-clad. Now imagine these women fully dressed, but still treated like shit. Does it truly lessen the degrading portrayal? If you think so, then women in most of the middle east would like a word with you.

I was promised trashy whorish looks. I don't see any trashy whorish looks. I have been disappointed.

I don't consider escapist design in video games to be a problem as much as some of the people that are drawn to them and obsess over them. The people who crusade against video games instead of dealing with more important political or civil rights issues is frankly a bigger problem because they give their movement a reputition as naggers that hate fun.

So my problem is with people and not the entertainment.

The funny thing is, that some of those people who complain about "trashy" and "whorish" looks probably do think they're contributing to some huge societal and political cause. If we could just do away with those slutty designs, men would like, instantly start respecting women and treat them as equals. Because clearly, who can blame those poor chauvinistic losers for not thinking highly of women who dress like Li Mei?

I swear, sometimes it's hard to tell conservatives and liberals apart, at least on the issue of sexualization. They both complain about skimpy designs, only for slightly different reasons.

I wanted to add, on the topic of whores, well prostitutes, that I respect them. It must take a strong stomach to cater to the whims of ugly losers, either for the sake of money, or worst, because they were forced to. I'm not sure I could do it. I personally wouldn't hire female whores, because I'd rather be with women who definitely do like me, and I'd rather not be one of those losers prostitutes must pretend to care for. They're treated as vile trash by supposedly good and moral people, some of which would be saddened if whores ceased to exist. I think I'd rather be cleaning sewers than to suck the dick of family-values guys (and all other kind of losers), so that whores are doing the latter, is impressive, to me.

So maybe people should really think a little harder before using words like "whore" or "stripper" as derogatory remarks. I know some think "whorish" behavior is engaging in sexually immoral activity, but the only sexually immoral activity I can think of is rape, and for prostitution to be rape, the whore has to have been forced into it, so it's not the whore's fault, at all.

Best line in mk9 story mode...

Johnny Cage: "So that's not a costume, you're actual military?"

lol, I forgot about that.

And it makes sense too. I remember a developer interview saying there was some internal debate over the Sonya's appearance. Even the designers knew it was completely ridiculous.