I am one of those empathetic people. I have been through alot in my life. I try to help people when I can, but one lesson I have painfully learned is that you cannot help someone who doesn't want help. Sometimes you can talk to someone until you are blue in the face, and unless they want to hear what you are saying they just won't get it. Experience is the greatest teaching tool in life I think. I know I feel terrible when I see someone I know in a situation where I know they are going to get hurt. I will always try to talk to that person, and try to lead them to make the right decision. Some people only learn by making mistakes, and that is ok. Unless the person will die from making the wrong decision all you can do is try to lead them down the right path. You can't ultimetly make the decision for them. If the decision they are going to involve means death (ie. suicide) THEN you need to make the decision for them, and get them immediate professional help. I guess what I'm trying to say is that I never give up on somebody. If they want to listen to your advice they will...if not they won't. All you can do is support them in the decision they make whether it be good or bad. I know we are not supposed to start religious threads, but I need to say this to you. The greatest ally you have in helping someone is PRAYER. Hope I made sense in my ramblings.

Well, first things first, it's always best to let the person know how much they matter to you. If you go right into the subject, they usually think you're just struggling for some type of control. People get defensive when they feel like someone's trying manipulate them.

But once they realize you're just trying prevent them from falling down, they usually listen at the very least. But depending on who the person is will determine if they take your advice. I've been in this situation many times, and I can count with one hand how many times I actually get through to the person. Then again, there have been rare occassions where I was wrong and everything turned out fine. I'll be the first to admit I'm not always right.

Still, there is no remedy for ignorance. If the person doesn't want to open his/her eyes and identify the problem, they're fucked. Nothing of this world can help them. But sometimes mistakes can be healthy as long is it doesn't destroy them. Unfortunately, that's not always the case.

malebolgia Wrote: I am one of those empathetic people. I have been through alot in my life. I try to help people when I can, but one lesson I have painfully learned is that you cannot help someone who doesn't want help. -Thank you, I needed to read that.- Sometimes you can talk to someone until you are blue in the face, and unless they want to hear what you are saying they just won't get it. Experience is the greatest teaching tool in life I think. I know I feel terrible when I see someone I know in a situation where I know they are going to get hurt. I will always try to talk to that person, and try to lead them to make the right decision. Some people only learn by making mistakes, and that is ok. Unless the person will die from making the wrong decision all you can do is try to lead them down the right path. You can't ultimetly make the decision for them. If the decision they are going to involve means death (ie. suicide) THEN you need to make the decision for them, and get them immediate professional help. I guess what I'm trying to say is that I never give up on somebody. If they want to listen to your advice they will...if not they won't. All you can do is support them in the decision they make whether it be good or bad. I know we are not supposed to start religious threads, but I need to say this to you. The greatest ally you have in helping someone is PRAYER. Hope I made sense in my ramblings.

What if life is falling apart for someone else, but the misguidance of the people in question is driving them further toward a dead end in their life for a lack of support and guidance. Or even just missing the feeling of a supportive friend. What if someone needs someone to care, but no one hears that plee?

Im the type of person that trys to do everything imaginable to help someone and when i see that they have given up and dont want to go on it hurts me deeply, when this happens i usually speak straight forward and tell them that its not gonna get better unless u learn to help urself and that ill be there for them... sometimes when i do that though it scares me afterwards because i think i might have driven them to suicide or something like that from the way i said things...

TemperaryUserName Wrote: Well, first things first, it's always best to let the person know how much they matter to you. If you go right into the subject, they usually think you're just struggling for some type of control. People get defensive when they feel like someone's trying manipulate them. -Thank you, that just answered so many questions that I have had since about January of this year, and even a little earlier.- But once they realize you're just trying prevent them from falling down, they usually listen at the very least. But depending on who the person is will determine if they take your advice. I've been in this situation many times, and I can count with one hand how many times I actually get through to the person. Then again, there have been rare occassions where I was wrong and everything turned out fine. I'll be the first to admit I'm not always right. Still, there is no remedy for ignorance. If the person doesn't want to open his/her eyes and identify the problem, they're fucked. Nothing of this world can help them. -What I fear is that a person is willing to open their eyes, but they are in pieces by the time that they identify the problem.- But sometimes mistakes can be healthy as long is it doesn't destroy them. Unfortunately, that's not always the case.

If you hear the plea of someone who desperately needs help then it is your duty to reach out and help them. I hope I didn't give the impression not to help someone who needs it. I never meant that. If someone is crying out for help then they are ready for help. I just meant that if someone isn't ready to be helped they probably won't listen to your advice. Believe me...from a man who has fallen before...who had nothing...I wouldn't listen to advice until I had nothing. Then I had no other choice. I was brought to a place (not a physical place) where I didn't have 75 cents to ride the bus. I had lost it all before I listened and accepted help. Not everyone is like me though (thank God). Lots of people will take heed to good advice before they really need it. Those people to me are the smart people in life. NEVER EVER give up on someone you love, or are friends with.

malebolgia Wrote: If you hear the plea of someone who desperately needs help then it is your duty to reach out and help them. I hope I didn't give the impression not to help someone who needs it. I never meant that. If someone is crying out for help then they are ready for help. I just meant that if someone isn't ready to be helped they probably won't listen to your advice. Believe me...from a man who has fallen before...who had nothing...I wouldn't listen to advice until I had nothing. Then I had no other choice. I was brought to a place (not a physical place) where I didn't have 75 cents to ride the bus. I had lost it all before I listened and accepted help. Not everyone is like me though (thank God). Lots of people will take heed to good advice before they really need it. Those people to me are the smart people in life. NEVER EVER give up on someone you love, or are friends with.

Thank you very much for thaose word of advice, and thank you very much for sharing your experience.

You are very welcome. I am glad I was able to help.

I used to always try and be the one to try and help everyone, but I've come to the realization that I can't do that all of the time. For example, a very close friend of mine moved away earlier this year. I still talk to him now and then, but without his friends here (me included) he's really starting to break down. He's gotten into drugs and it's at the point where no one can help him at this point. I've tried talking to him, but I've decided to give up, and let him learn on his own. It hurts watching him head towards a dead end, and I'm always willing to be there when he finally caves in, but for now I can't and won't do anything to stop him.

I spent a majority of my life always doing the right thing, and I have my parents to that for that. But always being the squeeky clean one, has left me without a real life to call my own. I've just recently have gotten sometime to try and concern myself about my own needs, and although it sounds selfish I do feel I have earned it. I still want to be the one people depend upon, but I just can't anymore. I know tend to let things run their course, and try to sift through the aftermath.

This thread kind of struck some thoughts I have on a personal situation of my own that I can relate to. You see my wife (who was divorced before we met) and her daughter don't really get along that well. They are kind of distant. My step daughter is 17 and basically an adult. However, for some reason(s) my step daughter has really made some poor decisions with dating guys, telling lies, sneaking out and has this constant need to be doing something with her friends than her own family. My wife tells me that it was only within the last 3-4 years did her daughter start behaving this way. There is no suspected drug/alcohol abuse. They didn't get along so much that it got to the point that my wife had to send her daughter to live with her biological father out of state. My wife did a good job raising her and gave her the basic needs plus more. I will admit that in my wife's culture, being "affectionate" isn't practiced very often. My wife is not affectionate towards her daughter now that she is 17 but yet she is with me. While I suspect this could be a factor of the many problems they have between each other, I still can't figure out why their behavior is like this. I also can't figure out why my stepdaughter doesn't realize that what she does at times hurts my wife. What do you think?

I've been in BILLIONS of situations like this, and i know how alot of these things feel like.

Up to now, there are some things that i have still not gotten over, and its been years. I dont think i'll ever get over somethings. *sigh*

Adam7 Wrote: This thread kind of struck some thoughts I have on a personal situation of my own that I can relate to. You see my wife (who was divorced before we met) and her daughter don't really get along that well. They are kind of distant. My step daughter is 17 and basically an adult. However, for some reason(s) my step daughter has really made some poor decisions with dating guys, telling lies, sneaking out and has this constant need to be doing something with her friends than her own family. My wife tells me that it was only within the last 3-4 years did her daughter start behaving this way. There is no suspected drug/alcohol abuse. They didn't get along so much that it got to the point that my wife had to send her daughter to live with her biological father out of state. My wife did a good job raising her and gave her the basic needs plus more. I will admit that in my wife's culture, being "affectionate" isn't practiced very often. My wife is not affectionate towards her daughter now that she is 17 but yet she is with me. While I suspect this could be a factor of the many problems they have between each other, I still can't figure out why their behavior is like this. I also can't figure out why my stepdaughter doesn't realize that what she does at times hurts my wife. What do you think?

Look i don't want to sound like a "kid" trying to give you advice, but take it from somebody about that age, Your wife just maybe needs to back off a bit (and yes i am aware of how cliche that sounds).

You said it yourself, "My step daughter is 17 and basically an adult"--so let her be one.
She wants to do whatever the hell she wants and as an adult, she's quite entitled to do so.

"for some reason(s) my step daughter has really made some poor decisions with dating guys, telling lies, sneaking out and has this constant need to be doing something with her friends than her own family."--Have you ever made poor decisions with women, lied to anybody, done something beheind somebody's back or wanted to spend time with your peers as an adult? She sounds like a perfectly normal dysfunctional person to me.

Yeah i know, maybe 17 isn't excatly adulthood, but she's obviously mature enough to be an adult, just not wise enough, but wisdom is gained by stepping out on your own, which is what it sounds like she's trying to do with or (by the sounds of things) without you and your wifes blessing.

Anyway i think i got a tad off track there, but what i'm trying to say is that maybe your stepdaughter isn't hurting your wife, maybe your wife is hurting herself because she won't let go and accept the fact that her daughter isn't 7 years old, and isn't required to love mommy anymore. Your stepdaughter, thinking she's an adult most likley doesn't get along with your wife because she feels your wife is disrespecting her by still looking at her as a child.

I dunno mate, it just sorta sounds all too famillier too me, and the more i think about this taking parenting advice from a kid thing, the more it makes sense. I mean, who better to give feedback on something than the recipient of it?...
Or perhaps i'm just too opinionated for my own good.

And as for the original question, i think temp summed it up pretty well for me.

Hmmmm I've seen some good points made here...

However, you can only reach out to somebody so much..

We tried to reach out to someone and it didn't work...

There was 3 of us, all best friends...well CJ started doing cocaine...and it really started to effect a lot of other things in his life (lost his job, acting very shady, etc)...so we told him 'Look man, quit the shit' and he said he would..but he didn't...this shit was making him lie right to our faces....so after 4 or 5 'interventions' we decided we could not help him anymore....

We haven't talked to him since...he called one time but my other friend told him he blew it, and we didn't want anything to do with him...

Last I heard his dad sold his 2004 Silverado, he is stealing money from his own family, he was put in rehab but walked out, he tried to firebomb someones house, he has had a gun pulled on him, etc..

He coulda spared himself ALL that grief, but he did not want to listen...so back to my point, you can only reach out so far for someone...there is a point where they must reach back..

skeletonofsociety Wrote: I spent a majority of my life always doing the right thing, and I have my parents to that for that. But always being the squeeky clean one, has left me without a real life to call my own. I've just recently have gotten sometime to try and concern myself about my own needs, and although it sounds selfish I do feel I have earned it. I still want to be the one people depend upon, but I just can't anymore. I know tend to let things run their course, and try to sift through the aftermath.

I've been feeling the same way as of late. I've realized that I can't help people all of the time, but then I start to feel selfish. But one of my problems has been that I tried to help people so much that I forgot to help Nova. This resulted in problems of it's own as 1: People started looking at me as controlling or trying to be too deep or something. 2: Whenever something seemed to be going right, or seemed to be making me happy, it would become an obsession because I was latching onto it, not knowing why it got my endorfins going. It's happened with the dragon points system, I was all about helping people, but then I felt like the dragon points made me feel appreciated or loved or something, and I latched on, not knowing how to let go.

Having forgotten to take care of my self, I have almost forgotten where my real strengths have come from, and have latched on to the wrong things. Believe it or not, that's one of the main reasons I'm into MK, it's one of those obsessions to me. I knew that it brought me happiness, so I latched on. Just ask my family. Anything that I get interested in becomes an obsession, because I didn't know how to produce my own joy otherwise.

It's so hard to deal when, once you stop focusing on the people around you, you feel like no one cares because you've possibly pushed them away. You feel like all of your previous beliefs and efforts were in vain as you watch people look right through you, or accuse you of something when you were only trying to help.

It sucks to feel alone, anywhere, in any situation, and when you have no power to be your own friend, you are left defenseless and you literally fall apart.

As this happened to me, I tried to break away from the things that I had latched onto, but then I would come back, hoping that the joy would reappear...but I only felt hurt again and had to leave.

But, having learned how to be my own friend and think about myself for once, regardless of how selfish it feels, it's the only way to survive. If you don't fight for yourself, no one will, and you will be defeated when you take off your sheild. As for letting things run their course, I tend to hope that I survive long enough to see the aftermath let alone, sift through it.

Thank you guys so much for your help and input. I am truly thankful and it is so wonderful to me, that I come come to a Mortal Kombat message board and get help like this, and with no flames no less. You guys mean so much to me, even though we have yet to meet in real life, and this is just an online thing, you have all truly helped me with a real life situation, that has helped and kept from believing that the only solution that I would soon have in life, is an act that I do not believe in as a Christian, and as a person that does not believe in giving up. I was truly beginning to feel like I was getting to that point, and worse yet, I thought that no one wanted to listen, help, or even cared enough to try to understand. I was truly feeling what I think must have been a significant part of what Potent must have felt, that drove him to the point that he has come to. To feel pain that great, you just want it to end, and permanent solutions can come to mind, even to those that think it could never happen to them to get to that point. As one that has often preached to people to be strong, I find it ironic that I should feel, and have felt, like this.

Once again, thank you so much, for placing another piece of the broken puzzle that had been my life lately.

I'm sorry you are feeling troubled lately. I know I don't clearly understand the situation. I am not overly religious, but live to spite others.

You can only follow a person so far into hell. You can only help a person for so long. They will only listen for so long. Sometimes you just have to let them make mistakes. That is what learning is all about.

As for yourself, you're better than that. Only stupid people kill themselves. I live because others want me dead. Don't die because life is a river. It's what makes it exciting.

-Shoe

don't waste ur time trying to prevent the inevitable, people need to learn the hard way sometimes. What you need to do is to stop judging them and to be there to lift them up when and if they fall. That is what you need to realize, you cannot dictate someones life especially not if you care about them, the best you can do is be there for them. Don't be an asshole and waste all your time making his/her life any harder than it already is, just be a friend and be there when they need you most.