Hmm...I don't listen to much Dimmu Borgir, but the song Maelstrom Mephisto is a fuckin good song. I can't say why people bash them; I didn't know anyone did bash them. What do they bash them about? Do they say they're sellouts? Or just that they have no talent?

I like Dimmu Borgir.

Plus, I can speak a bit of Norwegian :D.

But seriously, I think they're okay. This whole "sellout" argument makes no sense, you know. A band or a project works/is good, or it doesn't/isn't.

In my opinion, "selling out" is allowing people like Britney Spears to cover "I love rock & roll"...

Cheers,
VQ

Nowt is wrong with Dimmu borgir, i think they are great, i love cradle too.

"Selling out" is letting an outside source, such as a producer, the fans, a licensing deal, etc., compromise/manipulate your intention with your art...

Yeah... Same. I've never heard people bash them.

xcarnagex Wrote: I can't say why people bash them; I didn't know anyone did bash them. What do they bash them about? Do they say they're sellouts? Or just that they have no talent?

Personally, I don't like Dimmu Borgir that much.
I prefer Cradle of Filth, any day.

The music Dimmu Borgir makes doesn't really interest me, as in, prefference (musically), whereas CoF's music does.
Though, I can't say I've heard that many songs by Dimmu Borgir.

COF lost it after their Dusk and her embrace album imo. The Principle of Evil made flesh is their best. Dani's voice was greater in that album.
Dimmu Borgir are really creative imo. I like their style.

It just seems that whenever I go surfing and browse the metal boards I hear nothing but how Dimmu Borgir sucks from the people over at places like the Satanic Syndacyte/White Trash Devil boards.

Wasn't the intro song to CKY3 a Dimmu song? They're pretty cool, I don't know why people dislike them so much...

You know, all this moaning and whining is typical for people who like metal... many of them just complain all the time how band X sold out and how band Y sucks now they're having this other guy on the band, yada yada...

Shingo, you make a good point about selling out, but most people think selling out is just not being afraid of making money. Great artists don't necessarily have to be marginal people.

Cheers,
VQ

All this speaking of Cradle of Filth and selling out: I just had to speak up.

I know quite a bit of Cradle of Filth, I used to run a webpage and I've been listening to them since 1996 so I've been able to watch this band develop.

They released an album in 1994 and called it BLACK VAMPYRIC METAL. And it was.

Again in 1995

And in 1996.

And in 1997

And around 1998 they made a music video. Around this time they also were signing new deals with bigger labels... this isn't it yet.

THEN in 2000 or 2001 I think 2001 they signed to SONY. An international corporation which would definetely get them money, and worldwide fame (Which they pretty much already had)

Ok now what I want you to do, is listen to their album Cruelty and the Beast (1997) then their first album on Sony. I forget what it was called....

The band totally changed their entire style to where it wasn't even metal anymore for the most part and they still call it black metal when it's really like.... very electronic and not black metal at all.

Selling out is making a shirt that says JESUS IS A CUNT on it in 1995 and then making shirts that are completely appropriate just so they can be sold at Hot Topic.

Selling out is changing your musical style drastically just so you can market your Cds to a wider audience and losing passion and whole concept of your band in the first place in doing so.



Cradle of Filth are sell outs. I'm pretty sure I've made a good point. Read up on them and you'll agree with me.

Whatever pal.

Whatever is right. If you can't think of any valid argument why even post? That's just retarded.

If I can remember how many times people have said "Dimmu Borgir sucks", I should be able to remember what I learned on November 11th in fourth grade.

It's better not to listen to others' opinions, especially when they contradict how you think about something.

I love Metallica, and no matter how many times I hear "Metallica sucks", I'll never agree to it.

Quirk Wrote: It's not like CoF where Dani Filth sings like nails on a chalkboard.

Whoa, you just touched a nerve... j/k
i really like CoF, and i think Dani has one of, if not the most, unique and coolest singing voices on earth. I don't care about all that selling out stuff, because basically i never even bother with CoF's logos and stuff. I think some of the stuff they say is totally wrong, but i don't touch it with a 20 foot pole, cause to me its all about their excellent music and not thier image or beliefs.

noktis Wrote: Selling out is making a shirt that says JESUS IS A CUNT on it in 1995 and then making shirts that are completely appropriate just so they can be sold at Hot Topic.

Wow, thats a bit of a surprise, what did thier new appropriate shirts say?

fedegita Wrote: Wow, thats a bit of a surprise, what did thier new appropriate shirts say?

By appropriate I meant censored. I tried to edit my post right after I posted it but my Netscape locked up and I didn't really feel like starting it up again just because of this forum.

They DO make censored shirts. In fact, I can think of about 3 designs off the top of my head where the front has some picture of a demon or a girl standing there or whatever and on the back it will say something totally crazy and then when you go to Crap Topic the back will be BLANK.

You'll never see Cannibal Corpse making censored shirts to get their shit sold at Hot Topic.... or even Dimmu Borgir for that matter. Censorship is for sell-outs. If they cared about getting their message across they'd just sell their shit at record stores the way it was originally intended to be sold in the first place.

Like I said about Cradle of Filth. They started out with a vision, and that vision was to make the darkest music possible. Then that musical nazi Dani Filth slowly started kicking all the original memebers out of the band (And some of them even left because of the band starting to "sell out") and getting new members for the band that wouldn't know or even care about what the original vision of the band was.

And now the only vision Dani Filth sees is:

$ DOLLAR SIGNS $

Okay, I understand that reasoning.

But... if you think a band has sold out, why bother? Just move on. You probably won't convince people who keep liking them anyway.

VQ

VainQueur Wrote: Okay, I understand that reasoning. But... if you think a band has sold out, why bother? Just move on. You probably won't convince people who keep liking them anyway. VQ

Oh I've totally moved on. I sold all my CoF stuff and everything. The only reason I even spoke of Cradle was because someone else brought them up before me. Stating my opinion, which is what this message board is for.

There's only one CoF song I like (her ghost in the fog) so I don't really listen to much else by them so I'm gonna ask this: Did Cradle of Filth sell out, or did they just shift into a different musical style that people didn't like? Because I've heard about the "techno" album they did and I'm curious. The reason I ask is because I just picked up Kovenant's Seti album which is a fan-fucking-tastic industrial rock ablum... but since Kovenant was black metal before Seti came out, all the Kovenant fans are confusing "going industrial" with "selling out for a poppier sound".

To my recollection CoF never made a techno album. They made a few remixes or attempts at some black-metal-techno sound but it was really horrible, and as a lover of electronic music, I can tell it was terrible.

VQ

I agree with noktis...old CoF was great, but they have kinda sold out.

I don't know a lot of Dimmu Borgir but I do like what I've heard.

Quirk Wrote: There's only one CoF song I like (her ghost in the fog) so I don't really listen to much else by them so I'm gonna ask this: Did Cradle of Filth sell out, or did they just shift into a different musical style that people didn't like? Because I've heard about the "techno" album they did and I'm curious. The reason I ask is because I just picked up Kovenant's Seti album which is a fan-fucking-tastic industrial rock ablum... but since Kovenant was black metal before Seti came out, all the Kovenant fans are confusing "going industrial" with "selling out for a poppier sound".

Cradle of Filth changed their style RIGHT AFTER signing to Sony. I think there's a little more than a coincidence there.

Kovenent on the other hand had a slow change going on. I don't on Seti but I DO own their first album.. In times before the light and thats pretty black metal and then Nexus Polarus their second album came out and that actually had quite a bit of electronic going on. Then Covenant disappeared for a few years before returning as The Kovenant (they changed their name not only because they were getting sued because of it but also to show that they were a new band) and they released Animatronic which was VERY electronic.

They didn't sell out, they never changed labels to get more money or a wider marketing audience. They changed their style because that's what they wanted to play from now on, not because they wanted to play fucking Ozzfest.