MKO, First Injustice Tier list
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posted04/26/2013 07:37 AM (UTC)by
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WhereThereIsSmoke
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04/14/2011 07:56 AM (UTC)
Now, before you all start with the "It's too early" "You can't have tier lists now we don't know enough yet" stuff... Yes I agree, but this is more for fun. Something we can look back on in 6 months or so and laugh at.

So lets have everyone's input. I will put up my opinion first and we can edit it from there.

TOP: Superman, Aquaman, Batman, Green Lantern

HIGH: Deathstroke, Black Adam, Green Arrow, Nightwing, Joker, Killer Frost, Doomsday

DECENT: Grundy,Raven, Flash, Wonder Woman, Cyborg, Sinestro, Harley, Ares, Catwoman, Lex Luthor

POOR: Shazam, Hawkgirl, Bane

There is not a big gap here tbh, High and Decent are pretty close, and Top guys could lose to either. Poor are poor.
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TemperaryUserName
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04/25/2013 11:27 AM (UTC)
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So far, I don't think this game has a bad character. I can't make a definitive list because I have yet to even play half the characters, but these are my observations so far.

Top: Nightwing, Deathstroke, Batman, Superman, Killer Frost

I keep telling people that Nightwing is only going to get better. That character is ridiculous. And Deathstroke... I mean, his zoning in conjunction with interactables got exposed tonight by Aris, so until I have an observable reason to believe otherwise, he's top tier. All this "players will adapt" stuff may be true, but right now, it's optimistic speculation.

As for the supposed bottom, I just can't say. I mained Sinestro for 48 hours, and even if he is the worst character in the game, he's certainly viable. His meterless damage is much better than people think, and he's got really good whiff punishes to boot. His only real flaw is that he has zero room for error. He has no good wake-ups, so Sinestro players: space wisely.

And what's wrong with Hawkgirl? Aside from a few match-ups, her counter-zoning is REALLY good.
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WhereThereIsSmoke
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04/25/2013 11:59 AM (UTC)
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On the Deathstroke thing; Online he would be Top. He is still good offline, I'm just going off total tournament showings so far. He has now done well in one, as has Green Arrow (See new thread I made about it).

Batman, Aquaman have been consistently top. Superman and Lantern have put in good performances.

It is obviously a bit of guess work here...

I agree on Nightwing. Only getting stronger (Same as Joker I think) as people figure his stuff out.

As for Hawkgirl, I don't know her at all but general consensus seem to be she is quite bad. Had to put someone at the bottom.
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GodlyShinnok
04/25/2013 12:10 PM (UTC)
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I must say, I agree with this tier list, even if its early on, you can tell it's going to end up similarly. That's if they don't patch anyone down the road which I think they will (looking at Deathstroke).
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KungLaodoesntsuck
04/25/2013 02:38 PM (UTC)
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GodlyShinnok Wrote:
I must say, I agree with this tier list, even if its early on, you can tell it's going to end up similarly. That's if they don't patch anyone down the road which I think they will (looking at Deathstroke).


I agree as well. I think it won't be 100% accurate, but it's pretty damn close.
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MINION
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04/25/2013 03:40 PM (UTC)
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Banes rush attack should have invincibility frames on start up like Grundy's B,F,3 To compensate for the slowness and predictability of it.

Also, Grundy's B,F,3 phases through most projectiles due to Armor. But I'm not so sure it works on EX.
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joebear
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04/25/2013 04:28 PM (UTC)
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I don't have the insight to contribute much, but it looks credible. I stand by Killer Frost being a dark horse candidate for total powerhouse and Bane being one of the weakest characters.
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WhereThereIsSmoke
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04/25/2013 06:45 PM (UTC)
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KungLaodoesntsuck Wrote:
GodlyShinnok Wrote:
I must say, I agree with this tier list, even if its early on, you can tell it's going to end up similarly. That's if they don't patch anyone down the road which I think they will (looking at Deathstroke).


I agree as well. I think it won't be 100% accurate, but it's pretty damn close.


Wow, thanks. Can't believe people are actually agreeing with me smile

I would say my wildcards for undiscovered potential could be Flash, Catwoman or maybe Ares.
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Kabal20
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04/26/2013 12:00 AM (UTC)
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WhereThereIsSmoke Wrote:
Now, before you all start with the "It's too early" "You can't have tier lists now we don't know enough yet" stuff... Yes I agree, but this is more for fun. Something we can look back on in 6 months or so and laugh at.

So lets have everyone's input. I will put up my opinion first and we can edit it from there.

TOP: Superman, Aquaman, Batman, Green Lantern

HIGH: Deathstroke, Black Adam, Green Arrow, Nightwing, Joker, Killer Frost, Doomsday

DECENT: Grundy,Raven, Flash, Wonder Woman, Cyborg, Sinestro, Harley, Ares, Catwoman, Lex Luthor

POOR: Shazam, Hawkgirl, Bane

There is not a big gap here tbh, High and Decent are pretty close, and Top guys could lose to either. Poor are poor.


My only changes to that list:
Top: Black Adam
High: Raven, Wonder Woman
Decent-High: Superman

Justifications:
That's my impression from the guide. Wonder Woman has the best parry in the game, and her specials are safe. Same goes for raven. Black Adam has the fastest movement speed and dash recovery. Superman mid-low 505/50 mix up is extremely unsafe.
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SubMan799
04/26/2013 01:11 AM (UTC)
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A+: Superman, Aquaman, Green Lantern
A: The Rest
A-: Hawkgirl
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04/26/2013 02:03 AM (UTC)
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SubMan799 Wrote:
A+: Superman, Aquaman, Green Lantern
A: The Rest
A-: Hawkgirl


My sentiments exactly. Everyone says Hawkgirl is low tier, but she doesn't play like people expect. She is really good aggressively, and is a good match-up with quite a few characters if played right.
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joebear
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04/26/2013 05:15 AM (UTC)
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Why does everyone think Shazam is so low? I have the impression that nobody is giving him the time of day right now because NRS's portrayal of his character is exceptionally boring, but he feels like he could be one of the better rushdown characters in the right hands. In a game that lacks dash-blocking, his Mercury storm "dashing" could end up being a really huge competitive boost. Can somebody enlighten me on what it is exactly that he lacks?
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OnagaDragonKing
04/26/2013 05:47 AM (UTC)
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I use Bane, he is definitely not the worst
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travelingwilbury
04/26/2013 05:56 AM (UTC)
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Surprised to see Batman so high. He's my main right now, haven't seen any of them online at all. I'd agree that the game is well balanced overall. He's got good speed, a nice parry, good wake ups, and his double jump definitely helps with zoners.

From what I'm seeing so far I'd say Supes, Aquaman, Raven are top tier. Ravens telekinetic crap annoys me as much as Ermac's did in MK9
'
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Heavy-Rain
04/26/2013 06:13 AM (UTC)
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For starters I'd switch joker and shazam.
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04/26/2013 06:23 AM (UTC)
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I really don't see how Shazam is so low either. I think he's great.
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04/26/2013 07:04 AM (UTC)
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joebear Wrote:
Why does everyone think Shazam is so low?

Shazam has two major problems. Long start-up on pokes and combo starters makes his pressure game pretty much non-existent. All of his standing normals are over 7 frames, so if Shazam wants to pull off a BnB, he almost HAS to jump-in (which of course, is high-risk).

To demonstrate the point, imagine Shazam and Sinestro are at standing close. If I try to do my 9-frame 2, 2 into Herculean what-not, Sinestro can do his D+1 into shackle and get a free combo. Shazam's D+1 is faster, but it can't be successfully canceled into Herculean whatever, so the risk-reward is highly in Sinestro's favor.

He can mix-up an opponent on wake-up, but any smart opponent is going to either do a wake-up move or err on the side of crouch-block. It's the same logic regarding why you'd wanna stand-block Skarlet's dash-in specials: seasoned fighters are going to block whichever move leads into the most damage. Shazam's Herculean Something leads into solid damage if you can ever EVER land it.

On top of that, his anti-air is horrid. That's a big deal in a game like this. He doesn't get free rushdown from his trait like Batman, and his bolt isn't good enough to win two rounds on the merits of his zoning.

His chains have problems, too. However, he's viable thus far. He's actually pretty handy right outside of mid-range (which is why I dropped Sinestro for him), and his damage is quite good. That may change either direction as the game evolves, but I don't think he's as bad as Sheeva or Jade. The list of things Shazam needs to be A-tier is actually incredibly small, but the game needs more evolving time before that point comes.

joebear Wrote:
I have the impression that nobody is giving him the time of day right now because NRS's portrayal of his character is exceptionally boring

Man, I freakin's LOVE his design! It might be my favorite in the game, lol.
EDIT: FYI, I really don't think Sinestro is the worst in the game.
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SubMan799
04/26/2013 07:20 AM (UTC)
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Shazam has a stupidly good wake up game. Any smart Shazam player would bait a wakeup attack. Honestly, I think everyone in this game is really good and has some broken shit. Even Hawkgirl can play super lame and time out opponents with her trait

It's going to be fun seeing how this game developes
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WhereThereIsSmoke
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04/26/2013 07:33 AM (UTC)
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SubMan799 Wrote:
Honestly, I think everyone in this game is really good and has some broken shit.
It's going to be fun seeing how this game developes

This I fully agree with.

On the Shazam topic, he is suppose to be (according to Tom Brady) the second best grappler in the game (behind YOLOmon Grundy). Don't think people are playing him like that yet, plus my understanding is that his command grabs are really tough to consistently pull off and combo with, so that is probably why everyone considers him low right now.

His trait also sucks.

For people questioning Batman being top, http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HbdPwqG5qbU , watch Reo take WNF with this guy.

Like they say, Batman has a plan for everything.
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04/26/2013 07:37 AM (UTC)
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SubMan799 Wrote:
Shazam has a stupidly good wake up game. Any smart Shazam player would bait a wakeup attack.

I like it on paper, but if the opponent bites the bullet and low-blocks, Shazam can't really get anything more than db+1. It's not a bad setup, but it's not scary. In fairness, I haven't checked the data on his overheads other than B+2, but I imagine a D+1 would stuff most of them.

BTW, I meant to respond to your post in the overpowered/underpowered thread, but work has worn me down lately. I'm starting to agree with you more about Deathstroke as far as no interactables go. With interactables factored in, I still find him a bit worrisome. I look forward to seeing what people do at NorCal this weekend.
EDIT: As a no-cost damage increase, Shazam's trait is really good.
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