A plausible Kreate-A-Kharacter DLC add-on.
A plausible Kreate-A-Kharacter DLC add-on.
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posted06/26/2011 04:13 PM (UTC)by
First assumption: Custom characters are one of the coolest possible additions to a fighting game. Create unique characters with their own backstories, put yourself in the game, recreate characters from other games or types of fiction, add your favorite cut characters back into the series. Show off and share your creations online. Awesome, awesome, awesome.
Second assumptions: Completely customizable mix-and-match moveset systems such as the ones allowed in MK: Armageddon just don't work. They cannot be properly balanced. Period. A modern fighting game has so many moves per character that to fully explore every possible combination would take a room full of dedicated testers literally years and cost a fortune. This is why games like Soul Calibur don't even try. It's a fool's errand.
Solution: Namco, I think, has found the best solution so far to a thorny problem, and I'd love to see MK follow suit. Let the players pick an existing character's moveset and then edit that character's name, voice, appearance, biography, and ending while the moves themselves stay the same. Fatalities don't affect fight outcomes, so they could be chosen freely. In some cases, a few extra restrictions may be necessary, as dictated by common sense (using Sheeva's moves should restrict the character to a Shokan body type, etc).
It's balanced (as balanced as the default character roster, anyway) and something that could be reasonably be developed and delivered as a DLC package.
Thoughts?
Second assumptions: Completely customizable mix-and-match moveset systems such as the ones allowed in MK: Armageddon just don't work. They cannot be properly balanced. Period. A modern fighting game has so many moves per character that to fully explore every possible combination would take a room full of dedicated testers literally years and cost a fortune. This is why games like Soul Calibur don't even try. It's a fool's errand.
Solution: Namco, I think, has found the best solution so far to a thorny problem, and I'd love to see MK follow suit. Let the players pick an existing character's moveset and then edit that character's name, voice, appearance, biography, and ending while the moves themselves stay the same. Fatalities don't affect fight outcomes, so they could be chosen freely. In some cases, a few extra restrictions may be necessary, as dictated by common sense (using Sheeva's moves should restrict the character to a Shokan body type, etc).
It's balanced (as balanced as the default character roster, anyway) and something that could be reasonably be developed and delivered as a DLC package.
Thoughts?


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They said not in this game, but POSSIBLY the next.


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i would love that

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TortureLegend Wrote:
They said not in this game, but POSSIBLY the next.
They said not in this game, but POSSIBLY the next.
They also say that the complete run of DLC releases is not finalized yet, implying that anything reasonable is at least possible.

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I agree that soul calibur has nailed the character creation mode. I think I spent just as much time making characters in that game as I did playing it. I made a custom Scorpion for one of my mains (mistiguri... or however the fuck you spell that guys name)
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I would rather it was in the next game, simply because they would have a lot of time to get it right. I think they have more time now that they're not at Midway, and the last game it appeared in was chock full of loads and LOADS of content, so the KAK was kind of rushed (MKA).
Nice idea, but yeah, next game would be great. My idea would be that could redo Kreate A Fatality so that it is made up of cinematic actions that play out like a normal fatality instead of the goofy looking combos in MKA.
They would definitely need a lot of time to balance the fighting if they did the mix up way (which I would prefer), though it's always possible to just have a KAK room only and just let people go nuts finding the best moves to add together to make glitchy exploits.
Nice idea, but yeah, next game would be great. My idea would be that could redo Kreate A Fatality so that it is made up of cinematic actions that play out like a normal fatality instead of the goofy looking combos in MKA.
They would definitely need a lot of time to balance the fighting if they did the mix up way (which I would prefer), though it's always possible to just have a KAK room only and just let people go nuts finding the best moves to add together to make glitchy exploits.


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That was one feature I never used and didin't care for. For me, don't care if it ever comes back. There are a number of better modes & features they could add instead I feel.
You know what would be awesome?
If the next game had you create your own combatants from a HUGE list of clothing, accessories, moves, ect. So you could make Sub-zero and Scorpion while still having the ability to make new combatants as well. It would make for very interesting online play, if everyone had to make who they used to fight.

If the next game had you create your own combatants from a HUGE list of clothing, accessories, moves, ect. So you could make Sub-zero and Scorpion while still having the ability to make new combatants as well. It would make for very interesting online play, if everyone had to make who they used to fight.


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Hated KAK personally. . . wouldn't mind if I never saw it again.

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Didnt like it in MKA, and wouldnt want it here. People just make terrible characters and UR CHIN MY NUTZ win slogans. I can really do without it.

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Kreate a Kharacter is too time consuming... and besides i always ended up sticking with the main characters either way. So Kharacter A Fighter isn't something im looking forward to anytime soon.

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Another thing about KAK was that everybody did the same moves on it, because it had mega cheap exploits.

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ZeroSymbolic7188 Wrote:
Another thing about KAK was that everybody did the same moves on it, because it had mega cheap exploits.
Another thing about KAK was that everybody did the same moves on it, because it had mega cheap exploits.
Obviously. That's why I addressed that in my first post.

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Yeah you proposed narrowing it down by build type, all that would happen would be that people would figure out the most exploitative build type and clone it.
KAKs just cant be done, because someone will always find a series of moves that explot it, and everyone else will copy it. No matter how balanced or coded it is, certain custom move sets would always be more efficient than others, and thus used universally. Its not an idea flaw, its a human flaw.
KAKs just cant be done, because someone will always find a series of moves that explot it, and everyone else will copy it. No matter how balanced or coded it is, certain custom move sets would always be more efficient than others, and thus used universally. Its not an idea flaw, its a human flaw.


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I really loved KAK but a lot of people are just not creative and don't want to spend the time making characters. The fan base is very 50/50 on this because they are just really too into the main roster to think about their own creations. Also many are upset about glitching and people making infinite combos...as stated before it would need time to be balanced and tweaked to maybe make a return in the next game. I don't think they would put it in this game. I think they should re-release an HD remake of MK:A and update,fix and add what they did not get to put in the original release. Many people did not care much for it but I thought MK:A was a great game and I still play it.

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ZeroSymbolic7188 Wrote:
Yeah you proposed narrowing it down by build type, all that would happen would be that people would figure out the most exploitative build type and clone it.
Yeah you proposed narrowing it down by build type, all that would happen would be that people would figure out the most exploitative build type and clone it.
LycaniLLusion Wrote:
Also many are upset about glitching and people making infinite combos...
Also many are upset about glitching and people making infinite combos...
No. That's not what I meant. The only thing you would "build" is your character's name, appearance, and story text. For moves, you would be limited to choosing a single character from the main roster for your fighter to be based on. There would be no mixing and and matching of moves from different characters, except possibly for fatalities (which don't affect the outcome of matches). Hence, no potential for the mode introducing unbalancing aspect to the gameplay.
In other words, the Soul Calibur IV approach.
Do you see? I really want to be clear on this.
meh, if you can't choose the character's moves, i don't really see the point. it's like using an alternate costume.
if they were gonna implement it, they could let you choose movesets ala armageddon for offline play, but force you to use a preset on for online?
i dunno, kreate-a-character was kinda dumb in armageddon anyway.
if they were gonna implement it, they could let you choose movesets ala armageddon for offline play, but force you to use a preset on for online?
i dunno, kreate-a-character was kinda dumb in armageddon anyway.
i try to make creative balanced characters that look good, but most people ended up making characters that look lame and played cheap.
i have my own storys i write and i tend to re-make a lot of my original character designs in many games that have creat a character,yet you got to ask yourself, is it worth it for all the shitty characters you will see online?(that said i would love to vs people who have a creative eye and know what looks good and makes a balanced fighter).
im half / half on the subject
i have my own storys i write and i tend to re-make a lot of my original character designs in many games that have creat a character,yet you got to ask yourself, is it worth it for all the shitty characters you will see online?(that said i would love to vs people who have a creative eye and know what looks good and makes a balanced fighter).
im half / half on the subject

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jagro Wrote:
meh, if you can't choose the character's moves, i don't really see the point. it's like using an alternate costume.
meh, if you can't choose the character's moves, i don't really see the point. it's like using an alternate costume.
Have you experienced this method in actual play, though? Personally, I find that I still use my Soul Calibur IV custom characters almost exclusively when playing online.
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ZeroSymbolic7188 Wrote:
Another thing about KAK was that everybody did the same moves on it, because it had mega cheap exploits.
Another thing about KAK was that everybody did the same moves on it, because it had mega cheap exploits.
You know where I can find these? I want to set my PS2 up again and go screw up the AI. I liked how you could transition between moves that didn't have the right amount of the frames so you'd suddenly jump from a sweep to a fast jab and stuff.
If you want an actual balanced KAK that can be played online you want to get rid of that stuff of course.
but i think the idea of character editing might be more appropriate for mk, hell if i could make characters i dont really like look cool i would use ones i never would of, thats one fun thing about tekken.

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*Kano* Wrote:
Have you experienced this method in actual play, though? Personally, I find that I still use my Soul Calibur IV custom characters almost exclusively when playing online.
jagro Wrote:
meh, if you can't choose the character's moves, i don't really see the point. it's like using an alternate costume.
meh, if you can't choose the character's moves, i don't really see the point. it's like using an alternate costume.
Have you experienced this method in actual play, though? Personally, I find that I still use my Soul Calibur IV custom characters almost exclusively when playing online.
I think a more appealing route is to go the way tekken does and allow you to customize a character in the game, with many people upset about certain characters outfits, this could kill two birds with one stone.
However I feel that before we even think about this, lets just be happy with what we have untill all the bugs with it are sorted out. we haev infinites appearing before day one. Im not bitching about it, but it does seem like some loose ends need tied before NRS builds onto what it has already.
If you added a create a fatality option for into that, and not the crappy one that was in MKA, but more like one that would be compose the way WWE games do custom entries. It could be a prety good deal.

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IdiotRessurected Wrote:
You know where I can find these? I want to set my PS2 up again and go screw up the AI. I liked how you could transition between moves that didn't have the right amount of the frames so you'd suddenly jump from a sweep to a fast jab and stuff.
If you want an actual balanced KAK that can be played online you want to get rid of that stuff of course.
ZeroSymbolic7188 Wrote:
Another thing about KAK was that everybody did the same moves on it, because it had mega cheap exploits.
Another thing about KAK was that everybody did the same moves on it, because it had mega cheap exploits.
You know where I can find these? I want to set my PS2 up again and go screw up the AI. I liked how you could transition between moves that didn't have the right amount of the frames so you'd suddenly jump from a sweep to a fast jab and stuff.
If you want an actual balanced KAK that can be played online you want to get rid of that stuff of course.
The way that it was done would not exploit the AI because of the way AI is programed to block certain moves. The way it was usually done was they would make combos out of very fast and similar looking moves, it made them very difficult to block. Then you would add a tombstone drop for easy combos, again the AI is programmed to jump that move, so I dont think it would work the way your talking about.
ZeroSymbolic7188 Wrote:
If you added a create a fatality option for into that, and not the crappy one that was in MKA, but more like one that would be compose the way WWE games do custom entries. It could be a prety good deal.
If you added a create a fatality option for into that, and not the crappy one that was in MKA, but more like one that would be compose the way WWE games do custom entries. It could be a prety good deal.
this is what i originally thought creat a fatality would of been back before mka came out, if done so you can actually creat a fatality it would of been awsome.


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judita Wrote:
but i think the idea of character editing might be more appropriate for mk, hell if i could make characters i dont really like look cool i would use ones i never would of, thats one fun thing about tekken.
but i think the idea of character editing might be more appropriate for mk, hell if i could make characters i dont really like look cool i would use ones i never would of, thats one fun thing about tekken.
The idea of character editing would be a bit better in this game if anything.
I think if they made MK10 with KAK they should allow you to choose all your specials & fatalities but all the combos and basic moves should be presets of the current roster with maybe a few that are generically made. They could maybe even use a combo generation system depending on the specials you pick...other moves would just be generic...like the uppercut,sweep and roundhouses.
The idea I had was something like maybe custom Chameleon/Khameleon...this idea would be to have one character spot with a players own custom costumed Chameleon/Khameleon to edit using costume parts from all the characters on the roster(you would have to choose male or female though). Depending on which parts you used would change the moves.The only thing I would suggest is to make the fatalities for this custom Chameleon/Khameleon as if it were the actual original Chameleon/Khameleon. Either that or just give the custom Chameleon/Khameleon two different fatality steals...like the first one could copy cat the opponents first finisher and the second the second finisher and so on. I thought of this because the original idea was for Chameleon to replicate the other characters moves and appearances. I think this concept would be ingenious because it could bring back a character some people miss and also be able to edit the characters appearance(maybe allow the ability to have a few alts too). The only thing that the player would not be able to choose is the bios/endings.
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