The effect of the MK reboot on past canon.
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posted06/19/2010 01:04 AM (UTC)by
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ErmacMk5
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12/22/2003 05:23 PM (UTC)

In MK vs DC there were illusions to somethings that people weren't happy about; Shao Kahn and Raiden being Brothers, Shao Kahn working for Shinnok (or at least answering to him) etc. Most fans dismissed these notions given that the events of the game were non-canon...This raises some interesting questions about MK 2011's effect on canon.

If for instance, they use the Shao Kahn/ Raiden brother scenario in MK 2011, does that mean that it's true for past games? If they use the angrier darker characterization of Kung Lao instead of the passive warrior who faked his death to live a life of peace, does that change the originals? If we get a Kitana who's been literally brainwashed instead of figuratively brainwashed, will that change the character?

Keep in mind this game will deviate as of the first MK; that would mean that characters origins, and for most characters, their personalities would be fully intact. It would not deviate at the origins of the universe, or the birth of characters, so any info that contradicts this will pressumably overwrite canon.

I'm 50/50 about this. I think there's somethings that they can integrate much better now that the original story is done, such as clearing up the contradiction of Kahn's origins (him being both the God protectorate of Outworld and a servant of Onaga as described in the same game is sort of a head scratcher). And as much as some of Shaolin Monks' characterizations were AWFUL (Kitana as a raging haughty bitch, even when the spell is broken) I wouldn't mind Kung Lao being changed...a character with a razor sharp hat that he uses to slice up people never struck me as "peaceful."

Ultimately how will you react to any changes in the story? There are bound to be some....will you dismiss this game storywise? are there any changes you would like to see?

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RazorsEdge701
06/18/2010 09:31 PM (UTC)
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There's actually already a canon basis for the "Kahn and Raiden are family" idea.

First of all, it's kind of a foregone conclusion that the Elder Gods created the lesser gods, isn't it? I mean, they can't have just popped up out of thin air, and they can't be mortals who ascended somehow, because there's been multiple indications the gods existed before other species like humans and Edenians were even born.

Now, this was probably a joint effort, which means ALL the Elder Gods are Raiden's creator, and there's no actual "mother and father" relationships involved.

Combine that with the fact that there's evidence hidden in Deception that tells us "Kahn, Raiden, and Lucifer are the same species", that means Kahn was a god before he lost or renounced his power to become emperor.

So TECHNICALLY they are related to each other and to Shinnok. But MK gods don't call each other father and brother or anything like that. It's more like "Energy creatures made me out of more energy". Raiden was never a child, they didn't "grow up" together. They're from different realms and don't have any emotional attachments to each other or anything like that. Fujin and the other gods Sub-Zero fought in Mythologies would be more like brothers to Raiden because they're all from the same realm.
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BiohazardEXTREME
06/18/2010 09:35 PM (UTC)
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RazorsEdge701 Wrote:

Combine that with the fact that there's evidence hidden in Deception that tells us "Kahn, Raiden, and Lucifer are the same species", that means Kahn was a god before he lost or renounced his power to become emperor.
Wait, really? Where do you find that evidence? What I miss?
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RazorsEdge701
06/18/2010 09:53 PM (UTC)
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Remember how in Deception Konquest mode, the people in Netherealm and Orderrealm talk gibberish? It's actually Vogel saying things, played backwards.
]{ombat un-reversed one of those sound clips and that's what it said.

That's pretty much as obscure and impossible to find as you can get, but it does exist.
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BiohazardEXTREME
06/18/2010 10:00 PM (UTC)
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Oh, cool. I remember hearing a few of them... I don't even remember where.

Well, I don't care if Raiden and Shao Kahn are technically brothers, as long as they don't implement them as "family" the way they did in Annihilation.
Like, the way Raiden talks to Kahn in pretty much every OTHER MK installment, they pretty much talk about each other like enemies who barely met. Which is cool. So in a case like that, saying that they came from the same place eons ago doesn't really change all that much.
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RazorsEdge701
06/18/2010 10:06 PM (UTC)
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BiohazardEXTREME Wrote:
Well, I don't care if Raiden and Shao Kahn are technically brothers, as long as they don't implement them as "family" the way they did in Annihilation.
Like, the way Raiden talks to Kahn in pretty much every OTHER MK installment, they pretty much talk about each other like enemies who barely met. Which is cool. So in a case like that, saying that they came from the same place eons ago doesn't really change all that much.


That's exactly how I feel on the matter.
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XiahouDun84
06/18/2010 10:32 PM (UTC)
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Speaking only for myself, but as far as I'm concerned, this new continuity is completely divorced from the original.

I know, in theory, even though Raiden's going to "change" things, certain basics (like the aforementioned Raiden & Kahn being brothers, among other things) are supposed to be the same.

But, this is Mortal Kombat....whose track record in continuity is less than stellar. So as far I'm concerned, if they reveal Kahn & Raiden are related in this continuity, it will have no effect whatsoever on my view of the original canon.

And the same goes for anything else like, just off the top of my head (because I know they love to push this bullshit) Kitana was never evil, she was just under a spell the whole time.

For me, this is the Ultimate universe. No effect on the 616 universe.
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Vash_15
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06/18/2010 10:49 PM (UTC)
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You ever read comics, specifically Marvel's "What If?" series? I assume it would be like that. In those stories, one SMALL change changes EVERYTHING, even personalities. In "Spider-Man vs Wolverine" we see Spider-Man missing a plane back to America from Russia, so he ends up being a violent, rutheless, Russian spy. He kills, he deceives, and he WAS the nice Peter Parker we all knew.

Basically, this could be the same canon, but the small changes Raiden makes COULD drastically alter EVERYTHING, not on a biological level like him and Kahn being brothers, but things like Kung Lao's personality and Kitana eventually being literally brainwashed while still being the same basic canon
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cloneofdan
06/18/2010 11:36 PM (UTC)
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I think that they're going to use this "soft reboot" as an excuse to let rip with the revised continuity they've been pushing since Shaolin Monks. The fact that pre-MK1 events and characterization should be unchanged won't stop them. So say hello to envious jerk King Lao, Reptile and Mileena getting it on, and bewitched Kitana. Presumably sub-zero will be trying to redeem noob saibot. Where this all leaves Scorpion, who knows?

it's all such a bad idea. If they really wanted to reboot the MK story after the messes of deception / Armageddon (which is a good idea) lose the lame "message through time" angle and just remake MK1-3 already.
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jbthrash
06/19/2010 12:13 AM (UTC)
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I think the outcome of MK1-3 will be different in this game, and the conclusion of the story will take place a little bit after MK3. I think it is going to end right after the events of MK3, and they are going to make it so the events of MK4 wont' appear in the next game. Ed Boon admitted he didn't like a lot of the new characters and most of the MK4 characters suck so I think he is going to start a new time line after this game that will cut out the events of MK4-MKA.
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Mick-Lucifer
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06/19/2010 12:20 AM (UTC)
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I think nothing they do will change the past and the Blaze light will go out and the twist ending is that this game takes place in heaven where they all meet up after having died. They didn't all die as a result of Armageddon, some died of old age.
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BiohazardEXTREME
06/19/2010 12:22 AM (UTC)
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Mick-Lucifer Wrote:
I think nothing they do will change the past and the Blaze light will go out and the twist ending is that this game takes place in heaven where they all meet up after having died. They didn't all die as a result of Armageddon, some died of old age.


Wait, you LOST me... grin
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Joe-Von-Zombie
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06/19/2010 12:22 AM (UTC)
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cloneofdan Wrote:
. If they really wanted to reboot the MK story after the messes of deception / Armageddon (which is a good idea) lose the lame "message through time" angle and just remake MK1-3 already.


But I've already heard that story. Cleaning it up doesn't change the story, it just makes it more coherent. Itsstill the same story from 15 years ago. I want a new story and the time travel angle gives me exactly what I want: a new verse full of possibility. This could be the best thing this franchise has done narratively or the worst. Only time will tell.
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RazorsEdge701
06/19/2010 12:24 AM (UTC)
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Joe-Von-Zombie Wrote:
or the worst. Only time will tell.


Aaand that's why I'd rather have had a retelling of what I already know in prettier graphics and voice acting, over what they're actually doing.
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Joe-Von-Zombie
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06/19/2010 01:00 AM (UTC)
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RazorsEdge701 Wrote:
Joe-Von-Zombie Wrote:
or the worst. Only time will tell.


Aaand that's why I'd rather have had a retelling of what I already know in prettier graphics and voice acting, over what they're actually doing.

Even if its bad I'll take it. I'm all about newness. I had absoloutly ZERO interest in this games story untill Ed brought up the time travel angle. Give change a chance.
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RazorsEdge701
06/19/2010 01:04 AM (UTC)
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Well I'm about quality and the universe's record for telling new tales that don't suck is pretty low from where I sit.
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