MK X MK
  • Page:
  • 1
  • Italy
Rank Kombatant
Posts601
Likes15 received
26 given
MK X MK
11/22/2015 06:18 PM EST
Could it be that Ed. Boon and J. Vogel were not on the same page with what J. Tobias made up in the past for MK? Like they had a different view on MK's mythology and story direction?

They sure agreed on what Tobias did in his time as he was the lead designer. But looking at MK's reboot and the direction it's heading now it makes me wonder if they really agreed/liked what he desinged for the early series.

Ofcourse it's also time related, still, most influances that were clearly from Tobias are left out if not replaced. It almost makes me think J left the team bc they wanted to take MK to a different direction after MK2. And he eventually left after MK4. ( I know he said he left bc wanted to do something else, but i feel there is something left out not mentiond)

Im thinking this for a while now, and wanted to share it here. Do some of you have these thoughts as well?

For those who dont know J. Tobias, he is credited with developing the detailed storylines and designing many of the characters up until Mortal Kombat 4.
  • Italy
Rank Student
Posts2362
Likes49 received
0 given
RE: MK X MK
11/23/2015 12:00 AM EST
Tobias left right AFTER MK: Special Forces, in 2000, and he did it because that game was pure shit. He had his own ideas, some people followed him in Studio Gigante and helped in developing a fighting game for the xbox . But that game turned into shit as well.


Let's face the truth: while a great artist, John Tobias is a mediocre game director. He lacks basis in programming, game developement, resources management and so on.

Leaving the sinking ship wasn't a move that Ed Boon enjoyed either.

Tobias and Boon never had a serious quarrel, I can confirm it 'cause I regularly chat with him on a weekly basis.
To be honest, Boon never wanted Tobias out of the team. Although I have good reason to believe he vetoed his return, but it's just my speculation 'cause he always played coy when I asked more details about it.


Tobias is the heart of Mk. Ed Boon is its mind. Sad to say, you can live without a heart, but not without a brain.
  • Italy
Rank Kombatant
Posts601
Likes15 received
26 given
RE: MK X MK
11/23/2015 09:12 AM EST
lastfighter89 Wrote:
Tobias left right AFTER MK: Special Forces, in 2000, and he did it because that game was pure shit. He had his own ideas, some people followed him in Studio Gigante and helped in developing a fighting game for the xbox . But that game turned into shit as well.

Sad he did left before finishing special forces. The gameplay looked very potential when it was in mid developement. Tao feng was like i expected to be. Looking ok but playing like shit.
Let's face the truth: while a great artist, John Tobias is a mediocre game director. He lacks basis in programming, game developement, resources management and so on.

Well thats the thing. While Ed had a brain for programming and a fetish for trolling and secrets. Tobias had the brains for design, art and story like no other in that team. As a game developer myself i know how important a good designer is. And i think Tobias was a very good designer. They complement eachother.
Leaving the sinking ship wasn't a move that Ed Boon enjoyed either.
Tobias and Boon never had a serious quarrel, I can confirm it 'cause I regularly chat with him on a weekly basis.
To be honest, Boon never wanted Tobias out of the team. Although I have good reason to believe he vetoed his return, but it's just my speculation 'cause he always played coy when I asked more details about it.

So you speak Ed. Boon weekley? I expected them to still be friends. It ́s what they both said in interviews. But i still see no reason why Tobias was not asked back in the team or in NRS. If someone is made for Mk, it's Tobias, he made MK. His Twitter account is full of MK stuff, makes me think he wants to join MK again. Both have the potential to make the best MK together.
Tobias is the heart of Mk. Ed Boon is its mind. Sad to say, you can live without a heart, but not without a brain.

Well not to be a dick, but you can ́t live without a heart eather. Pulse is required to live, unless youre Craig Lewis :P But i get your point and i agree with it. I see Tobias as the spirit of MK and Boon as the brain and troll.
  • Italy
Rank Student
Posts2362
Likes49 received
0 given
RE: MK X MK
11/23/2015 10:14 AM EST
No, I speak with Tobias. I have also his private email.
Ed Boon refuses to speak with certain fans. He only has few twitter replies, but only for informative/promotional purposes.

In the past, during the developing of MK9 I asked him to add Tobias as "co-creator" alongside Ed Boon, exactly like Steve Ditko is still credited as co.creator in Spider-Man's latest stories/movies/merchandising.
I believe this simple fact blacklisted me from Ed Boon.
But the last part is just speculation on my part.
  • Italy
Rank Kombatant
Posts601
Likes15 received
26 given
RE: MK X MK
11/23/2015 11:27 AM EST
lastfighter89 Wrote:
No, I speak with Tobias. I have also his private email.
Ed Boon refuses to speak with certain fans. He only has few twitter replies, but only for informative/promotional purposes.

So you speak Tobias, that's awesome. I wish i had the chance to speak to him myself. Tobias, Kojima and Myamoto have inspired me to develope games myself. You sure are lucky to have him as a friend.
lastfighter89 Wrote:In the past, during the developing of MK9 I asked him to add Tobias as "co-creator" alongside Ed Boon, exactly like Steve Ditko is still credited as co.creator in Spider-Man's latest stories/movies/merchandising.
I believe this simple fact blacklisted me from Ed Boon.
But the last part is just speculation on my part.

Ed is deleting almost everything Tobias has made. That's why i think there was more behind Tobias's leaving. Ed and maybe the rest of the team wanted to take MK to a different direction. And Tobias wasn't happy with it and left Midway to start his own studio. Unfortunatly programming sucked in Tao feng, wich made the game crappy. But the game had potential to become a good fighting game. Character designes were not that bad, i liked most of them. especially the iron monk. Limb damage and envriromental damage was also cool. Game just lacked good programming. The choppy animations and gameplay killed the game imo.
  • Italy
Rank Student
Posts2362
Likes49 received
0 given
RE: MK X MK
11/23/2015 12:55 PM EST
I've met him a during san diego's comic con in 2010 or 2011, can't remember.
He is very cautious every rtime I,ve asked him something about MK, but he revealed to me a lot of behind the scenes of the developement of MK.
He is a nice guy, he spoke well of Ed Boon, though. I think that Tobias knew there was no coming back when he left.
  • United States of America
Rank Student
Posts3290
Likes1 received
0 given
RE: MK X MK
11/23/2015 10:50 PM EST
I wish they would welcome Tobias back to the team. They don't NEED him, but I do personally feel like we would be getting better stuff in terms of new characters, stages, and mythos/lore if he was still around. He and Boon on the same team is what I think yields the best MK games we can get, at least in terms of the stuff mentioned above. Or maybe I just give him too much credit, idk lol
Rank Mortal
Posts211
Likes2 received
1 given
RE: MK X MK
11/23/2015 11:50 PM EST
John Tobias is without a doubt a part of the creation of Mortal Kombat, but doesn't it ever occur to people that maybe he didn't want to do Mortal Kombat any more and pursue other things? It seems a lot of people on this fourm want him to come back.

If he really wanted to come back, he would've tried to reconcile with Boon and Co. but he didn't.
I know what I have given you. I do not know what you have received.
  • United States of America
Rank Student
Posts3290
Likes1 received
0 given
RE: MK X MK
11/24/2015 10:21 AM EST
What is it he currently doing? Does anyone even know?
  • Italy
Rank Student
Posts2362
Likes49 received
0 given
RE: MK X MK
11/24/2015 10:31 AM EST
Last time I checked he worked for Zynga, a spanish qnd world famous mobile game developer.
He also worked for photonovelas, and rarely cooperates with comic book producers like Dc and Darkhorse, but only for support/coordination/suggestion.

He is doing fine, it seems he doesn't need to work on a regular basis to live.
Perhaps he saved so much money that he can live on without working hard.
Who knows....
  • Italy
Rank Kombatant
Posts601
Likes15 received
26 given
RE: MK X MK
11/24/2015 12:51 PM EST
Venkman28 Wrote:
John Tobias is without a doubt a part of the creation of Mortal Kombat, but doesn't it ever occur to people that maybe he didn't want to do Mortal Kombat any more and pursue other things? It seems a lot of people on this fourm want him to come back.

If he really wanted to come back, he would've tried to reconcile with Boon and Co. but he didn't.


This post is not about wanting him back. More about why he left the team. Atleast that was my intention with this topic.
I believe he left had also to do with Ed and Vogel wanting to take MK to a different direction. I guess Tobias was very impulsive and proud so did his own thing, wich lead to Studio Gigante.

Once Tobias left, the differences were slowly showing. Boon was more trolling towards the old lore and eventually took the series to a new direction. (look at Armageddon)

Still certain things that Ed.Boon implemented were really cool. Like the krypt, Konquest mode and the crazy amount of secrets. But than again, the lore, mytholgie, characters, music felt less interesting and more of a joke.

  • United States of America
Rank Kombatant
Posts5613
Likes113 received
42 given
RE: MK X MK
11/24/2015 06:10 PM EST
I think it's fine he's gone and I don't think there was too much drama or ill-will behind it either. Franchises eventually swap hands anyway. Creators come and go. They either leave or they die and things keep rolling. It was inevitable that something like this would happen anyway so better for it to have happened sooner rather than later.

Are his little touches to the franchise missed? Absolutely, but with what was missing sprouted new, interesting ideas and character concepts that might not have happened under John's love and care. So it is what it is but he is still, and always will be, one of the fathers of this franchise and should always be greatly admired for it.
  • Italy
Rank Student
Posts2362
Likes49 received
0 given
RE: MK X MK
11/25/2015 09:18 AM EST
On a personal note, though, I firmly believe he deserves to be credited as co-creator of MK.

No matter how different is 2015 Scorpion from 1992 Scorpion. Without the latter, the former couldn't exist.
  • Italy
Rank Kombatant
Posts601
Likes15 received
26 given
RE: MK X MK
11/25/2015 10:07 AM EST
KenshiMaster16 Wrote:
I think it's fine he's gone and I don't think there was too much drama or ill-will behind it either. Franchises eventually swap hands anyway. Creators come and go. They either leave or they die and things keep rolling. It was inevitable that something like this would happen anyway so better for it to have happened sooner rather than later.

Are his little touches to the franchise missed? Absolutely, but with what was missing sprouted new, interesting ideas and character concepts that might not have happened under John's love and care. So it is what it is but he is still, and always will be, one of the fathers of this franchise and should always be greatly admired for it.


The 3D era had some intresting new characters and ideas. I liked the 3D era MK games. So in that perspective i can agree. With or without Tobias, Deadly alliance, Deception even armageddon felt like MK games. It looked more cheesy and the gameplay was less. still, it shared those elements i like about MK.

I can't help it but injustice was really not my thing, and MK is starting to look alot less MK and a lot more like Injustice. I don't like the direction NRS is taking MK. In this perspective i can't agree with the new additions. Mmmaybe it has to grow on me, i know i have to give it a chance.

lastfighter89 Wrote:
On a personal note, though, I firmly believe he deserves to be credited as co-creator of MK.

No matter how different is 2015 Scorpion from 1992 Scorpion. Without the latter, the former couldn't exist.


Yes i agree, its kinda unfair to Tobias.
  • United States of America
Rank Student
Posts3290
Likes1 received
0 given
RE: MK X MK
11/25/2015 10:17 AM EST
He should be credited as Co-creator. Hell if it was up to me he would also be getting a small check too since MK is still making money off of things he helped (or straight up did) create.
  • United States of America
Rank Student
Posts1104
Likes10 received
0 given
RE: MK X MK
11/30/2015 12:21 PM EST
I wonder how much of the departure from Midway was personal issues/creative differences with Ed versus outstanding factors that were occurring at Midway at the time.

In retrospect Midway was a classic arcade and pinball developer but an absolute shit home console game designer. They had a few hits but ultimately all of their console-exclusive (i.e. - not adapted from arcade games) titles always felt rushed and unfinished. They didn't treat their employees well - they gave them absurd deadlines to meet, they constantly re-org'd, and they never were committed to the quality of their games...they were only concerned with how quickly they could pump out a franchise game to make money. That's why MK became a laughing stock amongst the fighting genre post-MK4.

If Tobias left on his own accord, I could see it being due to creative differences with Midway, as well as integrity issues. But it does seem there's some sort of thing between Ed and John, so there must be something there. It could've been something as simple as creative differences, or as drastic as John sleeping with Ed's sister. I mean, they went as far as removing his head from the bottom of the pit in subsequent re-releases...almost like how WWE is treating Hulk Hogan as if he never existed because of one dumb thing he said. Ultimately, who knows? That's why I'm eager for the Midway documentary to come out. I believe the crowdfunding for it was exceeded?

Well, you all got your Tremor now. Can we finally move on?
  • Ukraine
Rank Student
Posts563
Likes3 received
0 given
RE: MK X MK
12/02/2015 09:04 PM EST
It was always a dream to have Tobias back, but i feel like maybe there may have been some bad blood over whatever occurred. Either way i don't think we will ever know the truth.

Without him though i feel like the story lacks any mysticism, or intrigue.
  • Italy
Rank Kombatant
Posts601
Likes15 received
26 given
RE: MK X MK
12/04/2015 08:22 AM EST
They even went to turn Sub zero into a cyborg. If fans didn't react like we did, i woulnd be sure if he ever turned human again. Again Sub zero mytholgies a game made by Tobias. SZ pherhaps had a permanent reboot.

Im almost sure now since MKx, KP2 reveal that MK will drasticly change in the future. NRS and Boon dont give a Fu*k about the fans that supported the franchise even when it was in its worst times.

Believe this,

Most if not all that J. Tobias came up with for MK, will get a reboot. Remember MKA? It was his way of slowly changing the franchise. Ed is to blame here for the stupid story mistakes and character decision. MK vs dc, i don't even count as an MK game, sure does Ed. It was his dream project.

It's very clear now that Ed boon is slowly rebooting the LORE, CHARACTERS and MYTHOLOGY J. Tobias came up with. Sure some characters are lucky and just to iconic to throw away (atleast they get that) but Fujin and many others i guess arnt so lucky. If we get them it's just for the $$.

For me it's making noise or leaving the franchise. But im a fan so i rather make noise than leaving. It may sound a bit over reacting but if you think about it, it's going this way.

MK9 was by far the new way to go for MK. it was in the good direction. But just to realise that all we recieved was just there to show that it's gonna be gone, get a reboot...


  • Canada
Rank Mortal
Posts2487
Likes0 received
0 given
RE: MK X MK
12/04/2015 09:25 AM EST
Tobias should come back and Boon should leave. The future of MK would be sweet.
  • Italy
Rank Kombatant
Posts601
Likes15 received
26 given
RE: MK X MK
12/04/2015 11:17 AM EST
J. Tobias joining MK would help the series defenitly. Or atleast let developers that love the lore and respect MK do the job.

IWe should voice our opinion. And crying about DLC makes no differents. The DLC decisions are just showing us what we can expect in the future for MK if we not voice the right flaws. Waiting till MK goes fukt up entirly?
  • United States of America
Rank Mortal
Posts633
Likes0 received
0 given
RE: MK X MK
12/05/2015 01:30 AM EST
Venkman28 Wrote:
John Tobias is without a doubt a part of the creation of Mortal Kombat, but doesn't it ever occur to people that maybe he didn't want to do Mortal Kombat any more and pursue other things? It seems a lot of people on this fourm want him to come back.

If he really wanted to come back, he would've tried to reconcile with Boon and Co. but he didn't.
MKO User Poll
MK11 The Reveal MVP?
47.6%
Skarlet
23.8%
Baraka
9.5%
Other
6.7%
Geras
5.7%
Sub-Zero
5.7%
Sonya Blade
1.0%
Kronika