MKX [including 9] Alternate Universe
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posted03/04/2016 09:55 AM (UTC)by
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TheRealJade98
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12/23/2015 05:18 PM (UTC)
Hi

I hope this is in the right place n if not, can you please move it n accept my apologies, thank u

I was thinkin...Raiden was about to lose in Armageddon and sent a message back to his own history, and i think alot of people see this as going back in time... and I get that but what if actually, he has sent the message back to a VERSION of himself in ANOTHER universe, that was destined to take the same course but has now changed due 2 the interruption from the original universe?

So basically, hurm, in the main universe, Armageddon has happened, but Kitana has survived [ie her ending in MKX] and who knows wot life is like THERE

But Raidens intervention has changed an entire alternative universe..

Thoughts? :)
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lastfighter89
03/02/2016 03:03 PM (UTC)
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TheRealJade98 Wrote:
Hi

I hope this is in the right place n if not, can you please move it n accept my apologies, thank u

I was thinkin...Raiden was about to lose in Armageddon and sent a message back to his own history, and i think alot of people see this as going back in time... and I get that but what if actually, he has sent the message back to a VERSION of himself in ANOTHER universe, that was destined to take the same course but has now changed due 2 the interruption from the original universe?

So basically, hurm, in the main universe, Armageddon has happened, but Kitana has survived [ie her ending in MKX] and who knows wot life is like THERE

But Raidens intervention has changed an entire alternative universe..

Thoughts? :)



That's exactly how things went.
Raiden did not just put the story in the past, but it seems that he overlayed the past over thwe present.
Therefore the tenth tournamenr was not held in 1992, but 2011, etc.
The time soan of 25 years in the story mode was an attempt to give the classic human character their "real" age.

In 1992 Sonya was 24 years old, according to her character profile in the official MK1 comic book by John Tobias. So, she was born in 1968.
2015-1968= 47

So Sonya would be 47 years old, exacatly the age of the Sonya born in 1968 nowadays.


This means, of course, that a good chunk of story mode is set in the future.
So, Johnny and Sonya defeated Shinnok in 2013.
Mkx story mode is set in 2020-2025 circa.
That would make Sonya on her 60s.

So the age of characrters has been overlapped.
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DAEGON1
03/02/2016 03:15 PM (UTC)
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I don't think it matters much, to be honest. Also arcade endings are no necessarilly canon.
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mattteo
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03/02/2016 08:31 PM (UTC)
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Alternate universes don't exist. Raiden just pulled gazillions of stars and 13 billion years of evolution out of his ass with a magic incantation as he was about to die on the pyramid?

This isn't the stupid DC Universe with alternate worlds. We have real writers for Mortal Kombat (had, anyway). And it's not a bad tv show where Michio Kaku (intelligent but greedy) tells lies to cash a check. Physics and string theory are not about alternate universes that resemble our own, as some media falsely suggests. There is enough infinity in the microcosmos as to not need an infinity of possibilities of arranging the micro molecules in different timelines.

Such alternate universes are stupid even in video games. They would age terribly. If they go down this route, when we'll look back after 20 years, Mortal Kombat will seem very stupid.

Have you ever tried rewatching sci-fi movies from the 60s with monsters on other planets? Yes, they're pretty much unwatchable now. That's what bad science does.
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Warbro666
03/02/2016 10:57 PM (UTC)
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mattteo Wrote:
Alternate universes don't exist


Neither do gods, different realms, super powers, mutants, etc.

I like science as much as the next guy, but don't be childish about it. It's a fucking video game. Alternate universes can exist within the game.

Spoilers: (Highlight to reveal)
and they do
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TheRealJade98
03/03/2016 12:07 AM (UTC)
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Warbro666 Wrote:
mattteo Wrote:
Alternate universes don't exist


Neither do gods, different realms, super powers, mutants, etc.

I like science as much as the next guy, but don't be childish about it. It's a fucking video game. Alternate universes can exist within the game.

Spoilers: (Highlight to reveal)
and they do


Thank you
I don't want fictional stuff in my fictional game! lol

Mutants do exist, just not the X Men kind. Mutations are mostly negative genetic changes in various plants, animals, n people. It's been studied for decades.

Some character interactions, and endings seem to suggest the old timeline exists.
While it seems Raiden changed the timeline, I'm sure we'll find out that Future Cell actually went back first...



Ka-Tra
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mattteo
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03/03/2016 08:54 AM (UTC)
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Warbro666 Wrote:
mattteo Wrote:
Alternate universes don't exist


Neither do gods, different realms, super powers, mutants, etc.

I like science as much as the next guy, but don't be childish about it. It's a fucking video game. Alternate universes can exist within the game.



Yeah, but these are interesting. There is a logical explanation as to why and how they exist within the game's lore.


Alternate universes just suck. Seriously, I don't want to be treated like an idiot by the writers.
It's like saying that within the MK universe humans can fly in space without any suit to protect them.
Yes, I've actually seen this in old fiction.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hj73o9EpQE0

It was stupid then and it's stupid now. Alternate realities will be very obsolete in a few years.
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Coltess
03/03/2016 10:35 AM (UTC)
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mattteo Wrote:
Warbro666 Wrote:
mattteo Wrote:
Alternate universes don't exist


Neither do gods, different realms, super powers, mutants, etc.

I like science as much as the next guy, but don't be childish about it. It's a fucking video game. Alternate universes can exist within the game.



Yeah, but these are interesting. There is a logical explanation as to why and how they exist within the game's lore.


Alternate universes just suck. Seriously, I don't want to be treated like an idiot by the writers.


That's nothing but your damned opinion. I like to imagine about alternate realities and time travel in my fictional game about magic and monsters. Honestly, I am so tired of you wannabe Enlightenment empiricists trying to shoehorn your positivist "I can decode the world" bullshit into every God damned orifice of human society.

There is a time and a place for scientiffic acuracy and it is when culture dictates it to be so. Humans are not fact-based logical creatures, they live in their own bubbles of relativity shaped by want, desire, and belief. Call it ignorance if you want, but what IS is shaped by our ability to comprehend and our ability to comprehend is shaped by a multitude of things including our internal desires.

People enjoy things based on perception, not objectivity and certainly not accuracy.


I submit to you all Tables Turned by William Wordsworth


Up! up! my Friend, and quit your books;
Or surely you'll grow double:
Up! up! my Friend, and clear your looks;
Why all this toil and trouble?

The sun above the mountain's head,
A freshening lustre mellow
Through all the long green fields has spread,
His first sweet evening yellow.

Books! 'tis a dull and endless strife:
Come, hear the woodland linnet,
How sweet his music! on my life,
There's more of wisdom in it.

And hark! how blithe the throstle sings!
He, too, is no mean preacher:
Come forth into the light of things,
Let Nature be your teacher.

She has a world of ready wealth,
Our minds and hearts to bless—
Spontaneous wisdom breathed by health,
Truth breathed by cheerfulness.

One impulse from a vernal wood
May teach you more of man,
Of moral evil and of good,
Than all the sages can.

Sweet is the lore which Nature brings;
Our meddling intellect
Mis-shapes the beauteous forms of things:—
We murder to dissect.

Enough of Science and of Art;
Close up those barren leaves;
Come forth, and bring with you a heart
That watches and receives.



Tetra_Vega Wrote:

Mutants do exist, just not the X Men kind.




Ka-Tra

I beg to differ. Here's Magneto tongue
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TheRealJade98
03/03/2016 01:07 PM (UTC)
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mattteo Wrote:
Warbro666 Wrote:
mattteo Wrote:
Alternate universes don't exist


Neither do gods, different realms, super powers, mutants, etc.

I like science as much as the next guy, but don't be childish about it. It's a fucking video game. Alternate universes can exist within the game.



Yeah, but these are interesting. There is a logical explanation as to why and how they exist within the game's lore.


Alternate universes just suck. Seriously, I don't want to be treated like an idiot by the writers.
It's like saying that within the MK universe humans can fly in space without any suit to protect them.
Yes, I've actually seen this in old fiction.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hj73o9EpQE0

It was stupid then and it's stupid now. Alternate realities will be very obsolete in a few years.


You replied in my other message about alternate realities and even still, u seem really offended n upset. Dont be. It's just people usin their imagination.

Relax a little bit u might even like it :)

How can u say alternate realities will be very obsolete in a few years.. ? FROM THE FUTURE ARE WE? HUH? :3
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mattteo
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03/03/2016 02:19 PM (UTC)
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TheRealJade98 Wrote:
mattteo Wrote:
Warbro666 Wrote:
mattteo Wrote:
Alternate universes don't exist


Neither do gods, different realms, super powers, mutants, etc.

I like science as much as the next guy, but don't be childish about it. It's a fucking video game. Alternate universes can exist within the game.



Yeah, but these are interesting. There is a logical explanation as to why and how they exist within the game's lore.


Alternate universes just suck. Seriously, I don't want to be treated like an idiot by the writers.
It's like saying that within the MK universe humans can fly in space without any suit to protect them.
Yes, I've actually seen this in old fiction.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hj73o9EpQE0

It was stupid then and it's stupid now. Alternate realities will be very obsolete in a few years.


You replied in my other message about alternate realities and even still, u seem really offended n upset. Dont be. It's just people usin their imagination.

Relax a little bit u might even like it :)

How can u say alternate realities will be very obsolete in a few years.. ? FROM THE FUTURE ARE WE? HUH? :3



Sorry for replying in all your alternate reality threads. It wasn't my intention to offend or anything. I never even look at who I'm replying to. I just didn't like the idea, that's why I said what I had to say.

I can say that alternate realities will be obsolete cause there's no logical fundament to them and they are only in the spotlight because of how funny they are. They have been turned into quite the sensation with some bad movies, that stupid DC multiverse and some fake scientists cashing in big cheques on TV.

Ok, I'll play along. Let's say alternate realities do exist. How many possibilities are there to align every molecule in the Universe in a different way? Like every little dust particle, or even smaller- the quarks inside atoms.
The Universe may already be infinite, we don't need a stupid theory about infinite timelines. Even if it were true, why would Mortal Kombat have just 2 timelines? Why should we care about these realities when there are clearly an infinity more where things can be different in an infinity of ways (every possible way). Every move, every choice made in a reality would be for nothing, as there surely is an infinity of the same and different choices in the other timelines.
It sure makes life seem more meaningless, even hundreds of thousands of souls suddenly seem like a very little thing and not something to care about.

And if there are so many realities where just a tiny bit of the Universe is different (a little dot somewhere very far away in the enormity of space), we could even be fazing from one reality to another without even knowing it!! Maybe you open your mouth to say something and you say each letter in a different reality without your 3 dimensional self even realizing it. But why a letter? Why not divide time into smaller bits? Why does a tiny different quark make a different reality? Why not go further into the microcosmos?

The point is- if you go down the alternate realities route, why should we even care anymore about the reality we know? It wouldn't be special anymore, those people wouldn't be special. Let's say the game focuses on only 2 realities- the original timeline and the new one. Why did Raiden's message travel exactly to this one? Why would we even care if there are infinite possibilities? Anything worth saving will be saved in an infinity of timelines and will be destroyed in an infinity of timelines.

Pointless.
I'm not trying to disprove anyone's opinions harshly or be a smart guy, but it's just what I think and it would offend me deeply if MK went down this route.

Cheers and have fun playing the game we both love!

giggles Wrote:
Tetra_Vega Wrote:

Mutants do exist, just not the X Men kind.



Ka-Tra

I beg to differ. Here's Magneto tongue


He's obviously a Witch!


We only care about the quantum reality we're stuck in.

I agree it's ridiculous if it were real. Like not fleeing a burning building, because in other realities you survive or the fire didn't happen.

Reality is complicated enough as it is, who/what would be governing the tangled web of multiverses, alternate dimensions, and alternate timelines?



Ka-Tra
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lastfighter89
03/03/2016 06:25 PM (UTC)
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Well, to be honest official science NEVER denied the possible existence of multiple, parallel universes. They were never ruled out.
We are not even sure if our own current quantic reality is a single entity or the fruition of several realities overlapped one unto the other.
For now, the closest thing to a proof that multiple realitises could exist is Einstein' theory.
A large source of energy can curve and shape the space, space and time are entwined, so if you move in outer space, in large distancies, then you are moving through time as well.

Go to Andrimeda's galaxy and watch the Earth from there, and you'll see the same Earth of ours, but in the past.


Basically this is time and space travel, it is logically possible, but we lack the knowledge and technology to do so.

Raiden is a god, so he basically created a whole new timeline.
As the name says it, a line could be straight, but also curved, broken or branched.
If you go in the past and change some events, you basically create a different dimension. That's the reason why Raiden stopped to have visions from the past. With the death of Shao Kahn the old timeline/dimension was lost.
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Blade4693
03/03/2016 07:22 PM (UTC)
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They say it was a message sent back in time so it is, but it honestly would make more sense if it was an alt universe.

In the OG timeline Kitana and Mileena know of each other around mk2 , they are described as being an assassin ALONG with each other, yet in MK9 Kitana didn't know Mileena existed until she went to the flesh pits..that makes no sense if it was just a message sent back in time, as a message sent to MK1 would not alter something that is implied to have happened previous to that moment, alt universe makes more sense IMO.

But its w.e, its NRS's game/story so if they say it was just time travel then I guess it is lol
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mattteo
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03/03/2016 07:23 PM (UTC)
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Raiden is a god, so he basically created a whole new timeline.



So Raiden created an entire universe out of his ass??

Check this out for having fun thinking about the size of the universe:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1Eh5BpSnBBw
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Coltess
03/03/2016 07:41 PM (UTC)
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mattteo Wrote:
TheRealJade98 Wrote:
mattteo Wrote:
Warbro666 Wrote:
mattteo Wrote:
Alternate universes don't exist


Neither do gods, different realms, super powers, mutants, etc.

I like science as much as the next guy, but don't be childish about it. It's a fucking video game. Alternate universes can exist within the game.



Yeah, but these are interesting. There is a logical explanation as to why and how they exist within the game's lore.


Alternate universes just suck. Seriously, I don't want to be treated like an idiot by the writers.
It's like saying that within the MK universe humans can fly in space without any suit to protect them.
Yes, I've actually seen this in old fiction.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hj73o9EpQE0

It was stupid then and it's stupid now. Alternate realities will be very obsolete in a few years.


You replied in my other message about alternate realities and even still, u seem really offended n upset. Dont be. It's just people usin their imagination.

Relax a little bit u might even like it :)

How can u say alternate realities will be very obsolete in a few years.. ? FROM THE FUTURE ARE WE? HUH? :3



The point is- if you go down the alternate realities route, why should we even care anymore about the reality we know? It wouldn't be special anymore, those people wouldn't be special. Let's say the game focuses on only 2 realities- the original timeline and the new one. Why did Raiden's message travel exactly to this one? Why would we even care if there are infinite possibilities?


People care about the reality percieve, which varies through each individual as it is filtered through the lens of culture. You may not like the idea of multiple realities but it's the reality of reality. We are all subject to our own abilities to process the world. There is no such thing as an objective truth. Truth is a relative construct altered by culture.

Embrace existentialism. You are the lone actor setting your reality apart from every other person in this universe or any other.
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mattteo
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03/03/2016 08:24 PM (UTC)
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Blade4693 Wrote:
They say it was a message sent back in time so it is, but it honestly would make more sense if it was an alt universe.

In the OG timeline Kitana and Mileena know of each other around mk2 , they are described as being an assassin ALONG with each other, yet in MK9 Kitana didn't know Mileena existed until she went to the flesh pits..that makes no sense if it was just a message sent back in time, as a message sent to MK1 would not alter something that is implied to have happened previous to that moment, alt universe makes more sense IMO.

But its w.e, its NRS's game/story so if they say it was just time travel then I guess it is lol



The simpler explanation would be that Kitana was brainwashed/ made to forget about Mileena. This could have been because of her well known rebellious attitude and good nature, with Shao Kahn choosing to wipe her memory rather than kill her. Why did she need a memory wipe? Maybe she once again found out about the truth in the Edenian War. Maybe she killed the first Mileena clone, the one she trained with in the past. Maybe she finds out the truth about her father from time to time and she's brainwashed every time. It would be common sense if she found out at least once a couple thousand years.

Sure, all of this comes out of my ass, but it proves that there are easy ways to explain the slight inconsistency. The game "Shaolin Monks" even says that Kitana is brainwashed from time to time. In MK9, everyone seems to know that clones are being made in the Flesh Pits, but everyone tries to stop Kitana from going there. Yes, Shao Kahn is pleased that Shang Tsung has created a new Mileena. But couldn't he be pleased because he can finally replace the one that died? Who knows how many Mileenas there have been? Check out her ending in MKX.
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Warbro666
03/03/2016 11:00 PM (UTC)
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mattteo Wrote:
Raiden is a god, so he basically created a whole new timeline.



So Raiden created an entire universe out of his ass??

Check this out for having fun thinking about the size of the universe:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1Eh5BpSnBBw


I'm speechless.

You're adamantly denying something in a fictional universe on the basis of "science" while completely ignoring the fact that practically nothing within that universe has a scientific basis. IT IS MAKE BELIEVE. FAIRYTALES. NOTHING IS IMPOSSIBLE.

And no, nobody is suggesting Raiden pulled another universe out his ass, merely that the message he sent was to a Raiden of another universe or a separate timeline. It's seriously not hard to grasp.

Your explanation of disliking the alternate universe theory is even more abusrd, because ANY deus ex machina theory means everything is ultimately pointless. Fuck, the whole existence of the Netherrealm, which you seem to have no problem with the science behind, makes death within that universe completely pointless.

I don't think Mortal Kombat is the series for you. Stick to the horrid Star Wars prequels.
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Coltess
03/04/2016 09:55 AM (UTC)
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mattteo Wrote:
Blade4693 Wrote:
They say it was a message sent back in time so it is, but it honestly would make more sense if it was an alt universe.

In the OG timeline Kitana and Mileena know of each other around mk2 , they are described as being an assassin ALONG with each other, yet in MK9 Kitana didn't know Mileena existed until she went to the flesh pits..that makes no sense if it was just a message sent back in time, as a message sent to MK1 would not alter something that is implied to have happened previous to that moment, alt universe makes more sense IMO.

But its w.e, its NRS's game/story so if they say it was just time travel then I guess it is lol





The game "Shaolin Monks" even says that Kitana is brainwashed from time to time.


Shaolin Monks is a non-canon retelling of Mortal Kombat II. It's a third parallel universe with a Sonya design I really liked but no-one else seemed to.
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