Crossups
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posted06/11/2011 09:16 PM (UTC)by
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ZeroSymbolic7188
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04/09/2011 07:33 PM (UTC)
So I figured out that the biggest gap in my play is that I cannot defend crossups to save my life. My anti-air sucks.

Kano is by far my best character and soley because I can use the upball to knock people out of the air, but I cannot play well with characters who lack a designated anti-air. Could somebody take time to explain to me how to counter cross up tatics, based on distance and such?
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Kushh
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06/10/2011 04:09 PM (UTC)
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I've had this same problem, I lose to some shitty players online that just jump at me and crossup. D+3 seems to be decent as they jump over, but sometimes I get hit trying this and take the full combo. I've yet to see a good solution to crossups...
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TheDarkPassenger
06/10/2011 06:59 PM (UTC)
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MK does not have legitimate crossups. Therefore, a standing block will defend a front jump in, as well as a jump over (what is being referred to as a crossup).

A crossup in Street Fighter happens because the jump in attack hits on the front, but the opponent lands on the other side, forcing you to reverse the direction you are holding to block for subsequent attacks (usually within the same combo).

In MK, hits do not hit on one side and switch, but also, because there is a block button (opposed to directional blocking), you simply have to block the hit type (low, mid, high). Because JPs and JKs can both be successfully blocked by standing block (mid and high hit type respectively), there really isn't a guessing game.

Also, I'm not aware of any move from the air that has a hit type other than high, so no worries of baiting to cancels.
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TemperaryUserName
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06/11/2011 01:16 AM (UTC)
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When I played Inferno during our tournament match, he had a really smart application of cross-ups. He would bait me with footsies, and when I rushed him with a jump attack, he'd walk backwards just enough for me to land at a distance which (for him) was safe and he'd come in with a cross up before my landing culimated. Really cool stuff by that guy.

TheDarkPassenger Wrote:
MK does not have legitimate crossups. Therefore, a standing block will defend a front jump in, as well as a jump over (what is being referred to as a crossup).

A crossup in Street Fighter happens because the jump in attack hits on the front, but the opponent lands on the other side, forcing you to reverse the direction you are holding to block for subsequent attacks (usually within the same combo).

In MK, hits do not hit on one side and switch, but also, because there is a block button (opposed to directional blocking), you simply have to block the hit type (low, mid, high). Because JPs and JKs can both be successfully blocked by standing block (mid and high hit type respectively), there really isn't a guessing game.

Also, I'm not aware of any move from the air that has a hit type other than high, so no worries of baiting to cancels.

Just because MK cross ups don't entail the directional guessing game doesn't make them any less cross ups or strategic. I would even say MK cross ups are more dangerous because unlike Street Fighter, MK's engine doesn't have a myriad of fast reversals. Therefore, if a rushdown characters gets in, you can't rock-scissors-paper your way out of the situation. You have to actually find a gap in your opponents pressure game.

Also, blocking a cross up isn't much of a victory: If you get crossed-up AT ALL, you've already fucked up, because that means you're taking an unhealthy amount of chip damage (absent from normals in SF4), and your opponent is going to be build a significant amount of meter.

Unlike Street Fighter, pressuring your opponent is SUBSTANTIALLY safer in MK. Really, getting crossed up with any character in MK is bad news. Defensive options aren't as powerful in MK2011, which is why zoning is so much more important in MK then it is in SF4.
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jagro
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06/11/2011 06:59 PM (UTC)
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surely an uppercut does just the same thing? or am i being stupid?
otherwise, kung lao, cyrax, ermac, kitana and sub-zero (ice clone) all off the top of my head have great anti-air moves, so your choice isnt exactly limited anyway.
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TheDarkPassenger
06/11/2011 09:16 PM (UTC)
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TemperaryUserName Wrote:
When I played Inferno during our tournament match, he had a really smart application of cross-ups. He would bait me with footsies, and when I rushed him with a jump attack, he'd walk backwards just enough for me to land at a distance which (for him) was safe and he'd come in with a cross up before my landing culimated. Really cool stuff by that guy.

TheDarkPassenger Wrote:
MK does not have legitimate crossups. Therefore, a standing block will defend a front jump in, as well as a jump over (what is being referred to as a crossup).

A crossup in Street Fighter happens because the jump in attack hits on the front, but the opponent lands on the other side, forcing you to reverse the direction you are holding to block for subsequent attacks (usually within the same combo).

In MK, hits do not hit on one side and switch, but also, because there is a block button (opposed to directional blocking), you simply have to block the hit type (low, mid, high). Because JPs and JKs can both be successfully blocked by standing block (mid and high hit type respectively), there really isn't a guessing game.

Also, I'm not aware of any move from the air that has a hit type other than high, so no worries of baiting to cancels.

Just because MK cross ups don't entail the directional guessing game doesn't make them any less cross ups or strategic. I would even say MK cross ups are more dangerous because unlike Street Fighter, MK's engine doesn't have a myriad of fast reversals. Therefore, if a rushdown characters gets in, you can't rock-scissors-paper your way out of the situation. You have to actually find a gap in your opponents pressure game.

Also, blocking a cross up isn't much of a victory: If you get crossed-up AT ALL, you've already fucked up, because that means you're taking an unhealthy amount of chip damage (absent from normals in SF4), and your opponent is going to be build a significant amount of meter.

Unlike Street Fighter, pressuring your opponent is SUBSTANTIALLY safer in MK. Really, getting crossed up with any character in MK is bad news. Defensive options aren't as powerful in MK2011, which is why zoning is so much more important in MK then it is in SF4.


It sounded as if the OP was struggling to defend (I, at a glance, took that as blocking) against JPs, so I thought I would explain the blocking portion of crossups.

I agree with a lot of what you put in your post, however, I do not think that MKs crossups are any different than a front JP, as the act of switching sides in the air doesn't in any way change your defensive options--it's more about the timing you have to react to a JP.

For example, if you land a string that leads to stagger in MK, it grants you a free JP into your string of choice (or mix-up), which is really similar to an MK crossup. Actually, the free JP off of stagger is much worse, as you must block, but if you block a string and anticipate a crossup JP, you can JK backwards and escape (possibly hitting your opponent).

I'm not a SF fanboy or anything, I was just using it as an example of what many consider to be a crossup attack.

Now that I've read it, I think we should probably try to answer the actual question at hand from the OP.

My recommendation would be to use crouching 4, JK backwards, or if you are lucky enough to have an incredible fast startup move that leads to punishment *cough* Kung Lao's Spin *cough*, I would try it out in practice mode to see what kind of results you get.

These kinds of scenarios can be tricky to give advice on, as the character you're using, and if you were blocking a string before the crossup attack (recovery frames affect what you have time to do before the JP hits), can greatly change which option is best.
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