Does Raidens thunder god variation make Cryomancer seem a bit lackluster?
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Does Raidens thunder god variation make Cryomancer seem a bit lackluster?
08/24/2014 03:12 PM EST
Both variations employ the same concept. Cryomancer and thunder god both take each character's elemental power and turns them up to eleven. Raiden's variation looks amazing, and Sub-Zero's... doesn't. I have two theories for this.

The first reason is that we haven't seen cryomancer fully utilized yet. Maybe there's a lot of cool shit he can do that just hasn't been demonstrated. The second reason might be that thunder god is built for rushdown while cryomancer is built more for footsies. From a spectator's standpoint, whiff punishing and dash-in slice can't really compete with constant lightning barrages.

Or maybe I'm the only one who thinks Cryomancer looks incredibly boring.

On a side note (and cross this if this is old news), but doesn't it look like Sub turns into his Deception primary during his mid-round win pose?
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RE: Does Raidens thunder god variation make Cryomancer seem a bit lackluster?
08/24/2014 03:19 PM EST
Unbreakable looks the most boring of Sub's three styles to me. Cryomancer seems fine. Though obviously neither compares to throwing Ice Clones at people.
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RE: Does Raidens thunder god variation make Cryomancer seem a bit lackluster?
08/24/2014 03:21 PM EST
TemperaryUserName Wrote:
The first reason is that we haven't seen cryomancer fully utilized yet. Maybe there's a lot of cool shit he can do that just hasn't been demonstrated.


I'm going to go with this. I believe we just simply haven't seen enough of what Sub-Zero's variations can do. I really wish NRS put up a demonstration video like Raiden and Kano. Something for NRS to kill time on as people wait for more character reveals.

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RE: Does Raidens thunder god variation make Cryomancer seem a bit lackluster?
08/24/2014 03:34 PM EST
RazorsEdge701 Wrote:
Unbreakable looks the most boring of Sub's three styles to me. Cryomancer seems fine. Though obviously neither compares to throwing Ice Clones at people.

Unbreakable is cool in concept, but in all the footage i've seen of it, I have yet to see the ice shield everyone's talking about (unless it's the parry? Nah).

As for cryomancer, something as simple as adding ice effects to his chain combos would go so far. That's really where all of thunder god's swag comes from.

WeaponTheory Wrote:
I'm going to go with this. I believe we just simply haven't seen enough of what Sub-Zero's variations can do. I really wish NRS put up a demonstration video like Raiden and Kano. Something for NRS to kill time on as people wait for more character reveals.

I remember MK9 Sub eventually getting a trailer roughly halfway through development. I'm hoping we get something like that with MKX Sub so we have a better look at what we're dealing with. It could be a wait, though. We got Nightwolf's MK9 trailer in like, what, March?
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RE: Does Raidens thunder god variation make Cryomancer seem a bit lackluster?
08/24/2014 04:15 PM EST
I find the lack of variety in terms of weapons a bit more worrying. So far, we've only seen a sword, hammer and daggers being used in gameplay.

What about an ice gauntlet? Or a flail? Axe? Spear? Bueller?
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RE: Does Raidens thunder god variation make Cryomancer seem a bit lackluster?
08/24/2014 04:59 PM EST
Razor is super excited to throw ice clones at people lol, it's hilarious.

@Temp: Yeah man I think it's a combination of the fact that A) People weren't swagging it up with Cryomancer Subz and tapping into more combo potential. B) Raiden is intentionally designed to be more flashy with longer combo chains C) Subz might be a "lower chain combo" character with shorter chains like he was in MK9.

I still like the look of Cryomancer but agree that his "frozen arms" visuals could be toned up a bit:

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RE: Does Raidens thunder god variation make Cryomancer seem a bit lackluster?
08/24/2014 06:57 PM EST
TemperaryUserName Wrote:
RazorsEdge701 Wrote:
Unbreakable looks the most boring of Sub's three styles to me. Cryomancer seems fine. Though obviously neither compares to throwing Ice Clones at people.

Unbreakable is cool in concept, but in all the footage i've seen of it, I have yet to see the ice shield everyone's talking about (unless it's the parry? Nah).



In this video at 7:45, you can see Sub-Zero's Unbreakable variation where he uses the barrier and covers himself in ice.
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RE: Does Raidens thunder god variation make Cryomancer seem a bit lackluster?
08/24/2014 07:21 PM EST
Mojo6 Wrote:
Razor is super excited to throw ice clones at people lol, it's hilarious.


Who isn't excited? Literally, the entire thing thrown at you at... however fast Sub-Zero throws it. My goodness, had my daddy not been sleeping in the bedroom next to mine when I first saw this, I'd be screaming my head off, or at least trying to scream (I can't scream, no joke either).

It's probably like, the best thing ever with this guy. I always thought his teleport move in Mortal Kombat vs DC was one of the best moves (because it was super easy to start off a great combo) but after seeing this, holy shit.

I think it's going to be the first thing I'll do. Go into practice mode, and just do that move.


But to answer the actual question, no. I don't see Cryomancer to be lackluster, and it's not the fan girl-ism talking. I too agree that we just haven't seen Sub-Zero more and get to see how he can actually play. I mean, we've really seen just poor fights between demonstrators at E3 or something, nothing like what we've seen with Raiden and Kano where Boon talks about how each variation is like.

If we get to see a video like that with Sub-Zero (and the other cast), I'm sure your mind will change.
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RE: Does Raidens thunder god variation make Cryomancer seem a bit lackluster?
08/24/2014 07:50 PM EST
@Icebaby: Oh hell yeah, chucking and detonating the ice clone looks awesome. I'm actually looking forward to see how Cryomancer plays because I dig the whole "ice weaponry" gimmick.
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RE: Does Raidens thunder god variation make Cryomancer seem a bit lackluster?
08/24/2014 07:50 PM EST
I may literally devolve into using no other moves and spamming the clone throw for entire matches, like an MK9 Smoke scrub with the tele-punch.
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RE: Does Raidens thunder god variation make Cryomancer seem a bit lackluster?
08/24/2014 08:39 PM EST
Sounds like everyone is digging Cryomancer. The overall opinion seems that we'll like it more when see every asset the variation has. Something tells me we've seen the bulk it of it, and right now at least, I'm still not that impressed.

Let the record show that this is going to be my choice variation. This is the only one that's going to let me play Sub the way I want to play him, so I hope something about it wows me before release.

xysion Wrote:
In this video at 7:45, you can see Sub-Zero's Unbreakable variation where he uses the barrier and covers himself in ice.

Thank you! I was wondering if I'd recognize it when I saw it and say, "that's right, I remember that now." Nope. Never seen that shit in my life.

It looks good, though. The application is kinda questionable, but we'll cross that bridge when we get there.
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RE: Does Raidens thunder god variation make Cryomancer seem a bit lackluster?
08/24/2014 09:30 PM EST
I am Really CURIOUS to see more gameplay of Sub-Zero's Unbreakbale Variation, I just wonder what is the use of Barrier Frost and Frozen Aura?

Since we know that Sub-Zero's Unbreakable Variation will be much defensive style, i really would love if NRS can bring back the Spceial Moves like Ice Plliar that Sub has in MK VS DCU or ICE SPIKE like the one whcih Sub has in the begiining of his X-ray animation in MK 2011 (Which Sub Zero Creates Ground Freeze that launched his opponent to pop up), but i don't know what is the reason that NRS removed it when MK 2011 released.

I can see the Ice Plliar and Ice SPIKE will be a very good defensive special moves for Subby in MKX

By the way, Does everyone has a gameplay video that show the Barrier Frost and Frozen Aura?
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RE: Does Raidens thunder god variation make Cryomancer seem a bit lackluster?
08/24/2014 10:00 PM EST
elson Wrote:
I am Really CURIOUS to see more gameplay of Sub-Zero's Unbreakbale Variation, I just wonder what is the use of Barrier Frost and Frozen Aura?

Since we know that Sub-Zero's Unbreakable Variation will be much defensive style, i really would love if NRS can bring back the Spceial Moves like Ice Plliar that Sub has in MK VS DCU or ICE SPIKE like the one whcih Sub has in the begiining of his X-ray animation in MK 2011 (Which Sub Zero Creates Ground Freeze that launched his opponent to pop up), but i don't know what is the reason that NRS removed it when MK 2011 released.

I can see the Ice Plliar and Ice SPIKE will be a very good defensive special moves for Subby in MKX

By the way, Does everyone has a gameplay video that show the Barrier Frost and Frozen Aura?


Barrier Frost makes a ice shield that freezes the opponant if they touch it.

Frozen Aura creates armour which reduces the block damage that Sub-Zero takes.
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RE: Does Raidens thunder god variation make Cryomancer seem a bit lackluster?
08/24/2014 10:12 PM EST
The only command (special) move I've seen in the Cryomancer variation is the hammer. The regular hammer could be an overhead while I've seen the EX version of it juggle the opponent. I'm not sure if the dagger move is part of a chain combo or a command grab move but I hope it's the second one. Also, as you mentioned, the Cryomancer variations seems a little lacking so I hope there's more we haven't seen of this variation
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RE: Does Raidens thunder god variation make Cryomancer seem a bit lackluster?
08/25/2014 12:48 AM EST
You see Sub's ice clone throw in the very first gameplay trailer they showed at E3. His Cryromancer variation looks sweet, I love the weapon ideas.
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RE: Does Raidens thunder god variation make Cryomancer seem a bit lackluster?
08/25/2014 04:34 AM EST
In terms of the rushdown variations, I'd actually say that Scorpion's Ninjutsu variation is the lackluster one. What gives some appeal to Sub-Zero's Cryomancer variation is the fact that it's a rushdown style. Sub-Zero has been known to be more of a defensive character, so to have a more offense-oriented play style for him is interesting, and it can be fun. Plus, who doesn't love that giant ice hammer? grin
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RE: Does Raidens thunder god variation make Cryomancer seem a bit lackluster?
08/25/2014 07:19 AM EST
TemperaryUserName Wrote:
Both variations employ the same concept. Cryomancer and thunder god both take each character's elemental power and turns them up to eleven. Raiden's variation looks amazing, and Sub-Zero's... doesn't. I have two theories for this.

The first reason is that we haven't seen cryomancer fully utilized yet. Maybe there's a lot of cool shit he can do that just hasn't been demonstrated. The second reason might be that thunder god is built for rushdown while cryomancer is built more for footsies. From a spectator's standpoint, whiff punishing and dash-in slice can't really compete with constant lightning barrages.

Or maybe I'm the only one who thinks Cryomancer looks incredibly boring.

On a side note (and cross this if this is old news), but doesn't it look like Sub turns into his Deception primary during his mid-round win pose?


I also have noticed this and pondered it.

I think your reasons could very well be possible. I have considered a 3rd and 4th reason as well.

3rd: Subby is not in his final build. He was obviously one of the first characters created. Perhaps they are still tweaking his abilities.

4th: It is easier to balance lightning rather than ice. We would expect ice to freeze the opponent whereas lightning can just be added to a normal punches for visual effects with no real difference other than aesthetics.

They have already given subby various ice weapons in this variation that have no freezing attribute with them, but what other ways could he use ice and not freeze the opponent?

--Perhaps by freezing his fists and punching the opponent.

--Perhaps adding freezes into combo's that finish with the opponent unfrozen, so in theory subby would not be able to add attacks onto this type of freeze attack, it would be part of a combo rather than allowing a free combo. (It would basically just add to the visual aspect of his abilities.)
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RE: Does Raidens thunder god variation make Cryomancer seem a bit lackluster?
08/25/2014 07:51 AM EST
RazorsEdge701 Wrote:
Unbreakable looks the most boring of Sub's three styles to me. Cryomancer seems fine. Though obviously neither compares to throwing Ice Clones at people.


I though the same until I read that his frost armor move makes him ignore the stun from the first couple hits.

That's awesome (pending testing of course) as that means that even if you're punished and the opponent starts a combo on you, you can punish him mid-combo with your goto opener+iceball, pop the frost armor again, full damage combo and repeat the process.

Depending on how much time the frost armor is active it could be brutal, even if it doesn't ignore the damage, ignoring the stun effect makes you unpunishable.

Maybe it's not as strong as I'm sugesting in the end, but while initially I though I wouldn't try it, now I think I will practice quite a bit and even try to train the parry (I've never been a parry expert).

About the main topic, I find cyromancer interesting, specially as it seems to have the more damaging combos (and a guy that can freeze you to properly start his combo likes damaging combos) and because of that overhead hammer hit which opens some possibilities.
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RE: Does Raidens thunder god variation make Cryomancer seem a bit lackluster?
08/25/2014 10:17 AM EST
Yeah; "The special move 'Frozen Aura' in his Unbreakable variation allows Sub-Zero to absorb one or two hits without stun, etc. Enhanced version increases the amount of hits he can endure before it wears off. Visually the move encases him entirely in a thin layer of jagged ice." This made the Unbreakable variation a whole lot more interesting to me as well
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