Jax or Mileena, better tournament choice?
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posted01/10/2012 08:13 AM (UTC)by
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GodlyShinnok
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09/13/2010 08:31 PM (UTC)
I'm currently learning both, but I can only choose one since it's going to be my side character in case I lose with Raiden.

Anyways, I've been thinking, Jax is a very aggressive character with very safe moves and good mixups, but with low reach and low damage, whereas Mileena is very aggresive with less safe moves but very long reach and high damage.

Sometimes Jax has a difficult time rushing zoners, Mileena is anti zoner. But Kung Lao gives Mileena a hard time, and he's one of the most used characters here.

If Jax corners you with at least two bars is probably game over.

So, who do you think is a better choice? I'm inclined towards Jax personally.
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Nephrite
01/09/2012 12:11 AM (UTC)
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I would say go with the one you feel more comfortable with.

BUT

If Kung Lao really is a popular choice over there then Mileena could be risky, I think the word out there is that he is still a bad match-up for her. Not sure if Jax has any bad match-ups.

I think Noob Saibot can be tricky for Mileena too, but I'm not sure.



Good luck bro and report back! smile
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GodlyShinnok
01/09/2012 12:16 AM (UTC)
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Nephrite Wrote:
I would say go with the one you feel more comfortable with.

BUT

If Kung Lao really is a popular choice over there then Mileena could be risky, I think the word out there is that he is still a bad match-up for her. Not sure if Jax has any bad match-ups.

I think Noob Saibot can be tricky for Mileena too, but I'm not sure.



Good luck bro and report back! smile


Thanks man, I feel very comfortable using both actually, but I know I'm risking myself too much with Mileena, still it's not an impossible matchup but the spin is still the best anti air in the game and I would be holding back too much because of that.

Noob and Baraka are good against Mileena but you've to guess right, a good Mileena is too unpredictable, like a good Scorpion.

Still have a month left to practice.
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totheark
01/09/2012 12:51 AM (UTC)
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Well based on the Kung Lao you're fighting, you should be able to figure out which character dunces your opponents play style.

For an extremely aggressive Kung Lao, Mileena is screwed. She has very little options to do and your opponent is going to be waiting for those wake-up rolls and tele's. Not to mention her fastest poke is absolute garbage; even on hit.

If I were you, I'd get prepared for Kung Lao before anyone else.
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Espio872
01/09/2012 12:53 AM (UTC)
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Go with Mileena, even if Kung Lao is popular, he's still only one character and to be honest, I think Kung Lao would be just as much of a challenge for Jax, he can outzone Jax from a distance and dive kick over the dash punch, he can also roll under Jax's punch, the elbow drop, and gotcha grab and then go into spin. Up close it's pretty close.

The only way Kung Lao truly makes Mileena pressed is if she keeps teleporting and throwing out random rolls. This is like the CSZ and Kitana match up, the match up might be in Kitana's favor, but that's why you don't keep abusing the dive kick, both of these situations have something in common, they make players respect their opponent's abilities and come up with a new strategy. This is like when I play Kung Lao with Stryker, you will NEVER see me roll on him unless I'm performing a combo or rolling under his dive kick or something to that effect, because I know he has the spin and low hat that punishes any roll.

People also say Mileena is a bad matchup for Kitana, which is only true if you sit there lobbing fans at her, which if you're doing that against Mileena..you don't really know the match up otherwise I'd say it's about even Kitana is great upclose, great mix ups, launchers for killer damage, etc.


Back on topic, Mileena has everything: Great zoning, counter zoning, and she has an under utilized rushdown game, she can really lay the pressure on thick and mess your stuff up.

Jax is great, but I don't think he's as mobile or versatile as Mileena or as effective at dealing with the rest of the cast. Mileena can deal with zoners very well, even Noob and Kenshi's zoning well if she plays smart and when she deals with rushdown characters, like Cage and Sonya, she can keep them out with sais and punish their projectile attempts with a roll or teleport kick depending on distance, not to mention her up close game and mixups are quality.


Jax on the other hand is going to have to work really hard to get near good zoners, like Noob and Kenshi.

Those Jax combos are only useful if you corner an opponent, not to mention this is assuming your opponent doesn't take away your meter by forcing you to break or use armored moves to get in on them, which Jax might have to do more often then not. Just my opinion.
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GodlyShinnok
01/09/2012 01:48 AM (UTC)
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Thanks for the replies guys.

Another thing I've taken into consideration is Jax's X-Ray, if you don't have the chance to corner your opponent you can use it to deal a whopping 41% damage, and even when you can't combo into it I've found that if you time it correctly, most of the time people are going to stay there blocking (I include myself in this).

Mileena as Espio said can do about everything, rush, zone, anti zone. Aside from Kung Lao, I've found that Reptile can also give her a hard time with the elbow dash, after every d+4 Reptile used elbow dash and I didn't have time to block, maybe zoning+anti zoning is the way to go in this matchup?
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totheark
01/09/2012 02:12 AM (UTC)
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GodlyShinnok Wrote:
maybe zoning+anti zoning is the way to go in this matchup?

Lots of instant-air sais. After a blocked elbow dash toss a down+3 and if it connects, put in a throw. His elbow dash beats Mileena's down+4 so avoid that leg.
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TemperaryUserName
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01/09/2012 02:27 AM (UTC)
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If I had to give an answer without thinking, I'd say go with Jax. His fighting style is lower-risk.

That said, what's your playstyle? Everyone has skills they naturally excel at, and the character who deals better against Kung Lao may not be the one who capitalizes most on your natural strengths.

On paper, I do think Jax does a little better. Once Jax gets meter, Kung Lao isn't too scary, but if you know you're great at making reads and identifying patterns in your opponent, go with Mileena. I agree she doesn't do fantastic against Kung Lao, but I don't feel she gets blown up either.
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Espio872
01/09/2012 02:42 AM (UTC)
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GodlyShinnok Wrote:
Thanks for the replies guys.

Another thing I've taken into consideration is Jax's X-Ray, if you don't have the chance to corner your opponent you can use it to deal a whopping 41% damage, and even when you can't combo into it I've found that if you time it correctly, most of the time people are going to stay there blocking (I include myself in this).

Mileena as Espio said can do about everything, rush, zone, anti zone. Aside from Kung Lao, I've found that Reptile can also give her a hard time with the elbow dash, after every d+4 Reptile used elbow dash and I didn't have time to block, maybe zoning+anti zoning is the way to go in this matchup?


I zone Reptile to death with Mileena,,,the reason is because of Reptile players, even good Reptile players incessantly throwing out the elbow dash, I'm a rush down player at heart so this is one of those match ups where I don't rushdown...at least until after I've showed them not to abuse certain moves.

Zoning + counter zoning for the win make him scared to throw a forceball, elbow dash, or spit, if the Reptile player is smart, if not, easy win for you
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GodlyShinnok
01/09/2012 03:21 AM (UTC)
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Honestly, I've always preferred zoning over rushdown, but in MK is hard to zone well with most characters, and there are many ways to deal with zoning so I've become a rusher. My best character is Raiden.

Also, at first I wanted to represent a character I liked in the tournaments, but I've learned that that only gets you so far so I've decided to learn another top tier character to use as a secondary. I mean, it's not impossible to win with a mid/low tier but it's a hard task, and in a tourney you're playing to win. Even though Sub-Zero is not a low tier by any means, he suffers disadvantage from most of the top tiers (Raiden, Mileena, Kitana, Cyrax) so I'm not gonna use him anymore in tourneys.

From the top characters I chose Jax and Mileena because I like their playstyles. Maybe I will learn both and choose the better option depending on what character I must fight against.
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Osu16Bit
01/09/2012 03:58 AM (UTC)
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My advice is to not get bogged down in obsessing about matchups and second guessing your character. I'm a big fan of character loyalty and specializing. Working through bad matches makes you a better player overall and being comfortable is extremely important in tournament play. You've got 2/3 matches in a set, you cannot afford to throw away a match because your experimenting with different characters. For every character switch and counter pick that's worked in tournaments there's been 10 dudes getting blown up for messing around with backup players.
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GodlyShinnok
01/09/2012 04:54 AM (UTC)
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Osu16Bit Wrote:
My advice is to not get bogged down in obsessing about matchups and second guessing your character. I'm a big fan of character loyalty and specializing. Working through bad matches makes you a better player overall and being comfortable is extremely important in tournament play. You've got 2/3 matches in a set, you cannot afford to throw away a match because your experimenting with different characters. For every character switch and counter pick that's worked in tournaments there's been 10 dudes getting blown up for messing around with backup players.


True that, but also there have been players that have failed for sticking to their favourites. Me for example, in a tournament's semi finals I was against a Mileena, I chose Sub-Zero because I wanted to win with him even though I knew it was going to be hard. I lost the first match and could've switch to Raiden since he is my best character but no, I wanted to try my best with Sub. I lost.

Say you're a fan of Sindel, even if you're good with her and dedicate all your time to practice with her you're still going to have a hard time against other players. Same cannot be applied for someone who like Raiden because he has better tools than Sindel.

Like I said, it's not impossible, but you're capping yourself when you choose an inferior character.
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Espio872
01/09/2012 07:37 AM (UTC)
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I beat a really good Kabal player today, they were machine gun firing and he had all the resets, dash cancels etc that you'd expect from a great Kabal and I did it with Stryker, I played smart, I only jumped once the entire fight and played patient. I didn't win by a lot, but I did take his Kabal out with Stryker.


I'm a firm believer that anybody can win, anybody in this game, it's not a hopeless endeavour. I use Kitana and Sonya because I've always loved them, same with Stryker and Sheeva.

I mean if you think about it, why play with characters you don't like as much just on the basis of whose the easiest to win with, maybe I'm weird like that I guess.


Just my opinion, but I think your CSZ is your best character, you seem to really enjoy him, I think heart and joy for a character helps push you onward and do better than you think.

I use Kitana and I'm pretty good with her, but I do genuinely like her, I was using her prior to her before knowing she was top tier.

If I ever go to a tournament, I will rock Stryker.

Not telling you what to do, just my opinion.

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GodlyShinnok
01/09/2012 08:09 AM (UTC)
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Espio872 Wrote:
I beat a really good Kabal player today, they were machine gun firing and he had all the resets, dash cancels etc that you'd expect from a great Kabal and I did it with Stryker, I played smart, I only jumped once the entire fight and played patient. I didn't win by a lot, but I did take his Kabal out with Stryker.


I'm a firm believer that anybody can win, anybody in this game, it's not a hopeless endeavour. I use Kitana and Sonya because I've always loved them, same with Stryker and Sheeva.

I mean if you think about it, why play with characters you don't like as much just on the basis of whose the easiest to win with, maybe I'm weird like that I guess.


Just my opinion, but I think your CSZ is your best character, you seem to really enjoy him, I think heart and joy for a character helps push you onward and do better than you think.

I use Kitana and I'm pretty good with her, but I do genuinely like her, I was using her prior to her before knowing she was top tier.

If I ever go to a tournament, I will rock Stryker.

Not telling you what to do, just my opinion.



Yeah, even if I know Cyber Sub is a very inferior character I enjoy playing as him because he is one of my favorites. I don't play Raiden online often (whenever I play) because I know it's very cheap with the delay.

Your Stryker is very good, and you have a LOT of patience to bait your opponents and make them do mistakes. I have only played once like that and it was against your Kitana with Sub last time we played, good match btw.

But yeah, that's online, in tourneys it's a different story. I feel very pressured by the amount of noise in the place and can't concentrate enough to do everything I know I would be able to do under different circumstances. That's why I can't risk myself using a character I like to play, CSZ's combos require a lot of timing and it would be very difficult to pull them out. Sub-Zero must be played very smartly, you can't do a lot of mistakes or it's game over, he's very unsafe.

Raiden on the other hand is easy to use and very effective. I feel Mileena too because I've never lost a match with her even though I started using her now.

Every character can win when used correctly, it's just that some require a vast amount of effort in order to win, and when you're under pressure, you really don't want to make a mistake.
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TemperaryUserName
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01/10/2012 05:15 AM (UTC)
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Man, I wish I had a PS3. sad

But anyhoo, I just wanted to note that a Mileena/Kung Lao match was featured in the APEX Top 8. Check it out godlyshinnok if you're interested.
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GodlyShinnok
01/10/2012 08:13 AM (UTC)
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Good Mileena but the pressure was too high, couldn't even get out of the corner o_O
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