^ LOL!

Awesome stuff!

Cyrax players are like viruses. They try to control them with patches, but they just keep mutating and coming up with new sickness.

I hate Cyrax

Whahaha, QFT!

I don't understand the logic behind the bombs.
Cyber Sub can't throw a bomb after freezing but Cyrax can after the net.
Cyber Sub's bomb don't freeze everytime because he can set up too much traps but Cyrax's do popup after a second net.
Cyber Sub cannot freeze after a successful bomb freeze but Cyrax can use the net after a bomb's pop up.
Additional to that, Cyrax can use up to 3 sticky bomb popups in one combo.
Not to sound like a scrub but this should be fixed.

^ I'm with you. REO himself complained about the different "rules" applied for the two cyborgs.

Just playing a bit of devil's advocate here, but by the logic you guys are applying, then Kung Lao's dive kick should also have super fast recovery and be barely punishable.

Hmmm... Not sure if something as simple as that can be compared to complex situations which arise from the bomb setups. Those specific situations change normal/default properties of the moves and sometimes totally prevent the moves to even come out. And it seems those specific situations limit Cyber Subbie's options way more in comparison to Cyrax, so it feels kind of unfair.

KL's dive kick is pretty much always the same, whether it's a naked one or a mid-combo one. The bombs, nets and freeze projectiles from those two cyborgs have different properties depending on the situation.

Except that Kung Lao's dive kick and Cyber Sub's dive kick aren't even similar. Animation, angle, and properties are totally different, the only thing they have in common are that they're dive kicks. What you say is too much of a generalization, by your logic every teleport, projectile, etc, should be the same.

On the other hand, Cyber Sub and Cyrax share the same bomb animation and similar properties.

- Both have the same startup and recovery time.
- Both are used to start a combo.
- Both are unblockable and do 8% of damage.

The differences about them is what makes it unfair. Cyber Sub is too restricted in regards to bomb use while Cyrax is not.

As I stated before:

- Cyber Sub can't throw a bomb after freezing but Cyrax can after the net.
- Cyber Sub's bomb don't freeze everytime because he can set up too much traps, but Cyrax's do popup everytime and he can set up traps as Cyber Sub.
- Cyber Sub cannot freeze after a successful bomb freeze. Cyrax can use the net after a bomb's pop up.
- Cyber Sub can't use EX Bomb during a combo, while Cyrax can use up to three.

In addition to that, Cyrax's teleport have invincibility frames, and Cyber Sub's doesn't. Also, the net's startup and recovery are faster and have wider range than Cyber Sub's ice ball.

Cyrax is obviously the better choice, but what's the logic behind this? I'm afraid they purposefully make characters better than others in the future, like is the case with Cyber Sub and Cyrax. That would limit so much the roster variety in tourneys because noone would choose the inferior character for obvious reasons.

Wow, that is bullshit... why did they even think to do that. Cyrax is too good to have all this extra "help," while Cyber Sub really could use the help, he's just so limited. Either nerf Cyrax or buff Cyber Sub Zero.

The other thing I will say, however, is that I absolutely loathe fighting Cyrax and I would hate to fight a character of equal cheapness (I'm taking to you 60%+ bomb traps ).

yeah, but Zero isn't really a defense guy. I find it easier rushing down people and throwing out ice-parries when getting over whelmed. the bombs are only good when you want to make some one jump, and the EX bomb's are godly unless the opponent has a teleport, or uses kitanas square wave from a certain distance.

he has a lot of low starters and pop up's and he has a 2 hit 19% combo with a 2 button requirement. he can get a free X ray as long as he jumps as soon as the opponent jumps, making it almost the easiest to land X-Ray in the game, second only to I think Stryker or Kitana. and you can easily combo into it, despite it being a required air move.

Ahmagawd Cyrax drives me insane, he's a cool character in all, but damn I'm still in shock at his 60% one bar of meter combos.

Not to mention 90% damage off a reset? I dunno if someone would be able to get breaker or not within that amount of time, but man that's outrageous.


I still do not understand why Cyrax's teleport has invulnerabilty no matter when you do it, as a wake up attack understandable, but not always.


I wish I could get into Cyrax, but I just don't like his combos nor the reliance on the bomb traps and stuff to deal out the heavy damage. Cyrax is my favorite Cyber, but meh.

Oh and lol at how Cyrax players manage to get around the nerfs to create new resets, very impressed.

Cyrax can rush down as well, he can cancel every string into air throw making all of it safe, he can also use it when being pressured in the corner for an easy escape. He also has a dash cancelable string that can use for pressure. The only thing Cyrax lacks is a good mixup game, that honestly he doesn't even need.

Cyber Sub only has one low starter and you need to waste a bar of meter to use it, he also has only one true popup, the other one is a pseudo pop up meaning that you are limited to some attacks after you do it. The 2 hits 19% combo is useless. Cyrax does not need X-Ray to do damage, he only needs one bar to do over half your life bar (without reset). Here are some examples of Cyrax vs C. Sub combos (all viable):

Cyrax (midscreen, one bar, no reset): jip, 2, 1, net, jip, 2, 1, EX bomb, mid bomb, uppercut, b+2, 2, 1, 2. 55% damage.

Cyrax (midscreen, one bar, no reset): net, jip, 2, 1, EX bomb, mid bomb, uppercut, b+2, 2, 1, 2. 48% damage.

C. Sub-Zero (midscreen, X-Ray): jip, 2, 1, freeze, jip, b+3, 2, X-Ray. 48% damage.

C. Sub-Zero (midscreen, no bar): freeze, jip, 2, 1, 1+2, 2, 1, b+2, 2, slide. 33% damage.

With one bar Cyrax can do a lot more damage than Cyber Sub with an X-Ray. And when Cyrax catch you with a net, he can deplete almost half of your life bar without reset, while Cyber Sub cannot surpass 40% damage when he catch you with his awful ice ball. Cyber Sub can't use bar to increase his combo damage exponentially as Cyrax.

Air throw beats dive kick, net beats ice ball, bombs beat ice bombs, cyrax teleport beats cyber sub's. Cyrax is better than Cyber Sub-Zero without question, and this is not a matchup we're talking about, is about the character as a whole.

omg sick stuff!! this is the reason why you should always save your breakers against cyrax players.

Kratos is more outrageous than Cyrax, but we never see him do high percent damage combos much. Because even though he can do up to 55% damage off a no-meter combo, we never see him being played by the (PS3) community, 'cause it takes a lot of time and dedication. Unlike Cyrax, who takes much less time to learn. And probably because Kratos is a guest fighter, also unlike Cyrax.

Kratos can be very devastating, more so than Cyrax, but he requires lots of time to be great with him, also gonna need some fast fingers to do his highest-damaging combos, which needs his Hermes' Rush dash-cancel technique to do. I can't do this technique because it has to be performed really fast. Though even without his Hermes' Rush dash-cancel technique, I can still do some high-damage combos without that very easy-to-use F+4, 2, (hold 2), 4 combo.

At least it is enough to make me a formidable opponent against the Cyrax bomb-trap players, when they are matched up against my Kratos.

That whole post that GodlyShinnok made, is why I dropped Cyber Sub-Zero as my main (his spot has been filled in by Stryker, yeah! :D ), Cyber Subby feels inferior to Cyrax, he needs a good buff, especially on his Ice Bombs.

The reason you never see Kratos stuff is because you cannot use him at high-end tournaments. So all the good players don't bother really learning him.

That means Kratos will never be learned to his fullest extent, by that I mean like techniques and stuff like that. Kratos can be such a pain to fight against, if the guy playing as him knows what they're doing. One parried melee attack can mean almost half your lifebar, because it is possible to dash-cancel Kratos' headbutt counter and do your own combo while the opponent is still stunned from the Golden Fleece parry. Highest-damage, 1-bar-o'-meter, combo I can do is 49%. (Not a corner combo.)

It is amazing that Cyrax players successfully find ways around the patches, they seem determined to have their high-damage combos. Even though I think fighting Cyrax is a pain (Like my opponents fighting my Kratos), I gotta admit, that's pretty cool.