On paper, Sindel looks top 15.
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posted07/11/2012 05:10 AM (UTC)by
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TemperaryUserName
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02/10/2003 01:32 AM (UTC)
So what's her problem? I don't get it.

She has some of the best pressure in the game with her levi-cancels. She has some of the best projectile zoning in the game. She has normals and strings that have excellent range and are neutral on block (and can stuff jumps!). Hell, she even has armor!

Is she really below mid-tier, or is the community just lazy? Or maybe it's a popularity thing and only a few players are willing to invest the time in her? What's going on here?
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Nephrite
06/04/2012 12:11 PM (UTC)
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TemperaryUserName Wrote:
Hell, she even has armor!


I'm pretty sure she doesn't have armor. Players maining her have been asking for armor for months. Most of them would give her armor on the enhanced cartwheel, I (and some others) would give armor to the enhanced scream instead. When you think of how ridiculous some of the best characters are, this really wouldn't be too much.

Other than that, her meterless damage output is low (when not punishing with b3, f2). Her normals aren't that fast either, "4, 4" which leads to solid meterless damage (25-30%) is 14 frames. "2" leads into more damage, but it's 17 frames. I don't think her anti-airs are that good and her wake-up game is not the best either (I think you can stuff all of her wake-up attacks, not sure though).

I play her here and there, I'm not a Sindel expert though. wink
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TemperaryUserName
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06/04/2012 02:28 PM (UTC)
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Nephrite Wrote:
I'm pretty sure she doesn't have armor. Players maining her have been asking for armor for months.

You're right. The combo thread at TYM said enhanced Step Up had armor, but it's referring to wake-up exclusively (honestly, that was bad phrasing on their part; invincibility would have been more accurate).

Nephrite Wrote:
Other than that, her meterless damage output is low (when not punishing with b3, f2).

2 also leads into 35% combos. It's not great, but I wouldn't say it's bad. It should be reserved for punishes and jump-ins. 4,4 doesn't have the quickest startup, but you get to do it for free after a blocked D+4, and from there it's neutral on block. It's still a good footsie tool on top of that.

But again: her levi-cancels. At high level, wouldn't that compensate for all of her other start-up problems? In a handful of matches, her zoning can do most of the work anyway.

Nephrite Wrote:
and her wake-up game is not the best either (I think you can stuff all of her wake-up attacks, not sure though).

I don't see what's wrong with it. Ex-low fireball in conjunction with ex-step up (which hits overhead) forces the opponent into a mix-up situation. That looks solid to me. U+4 is a decent anti-air (though the timing is weird), and it also works as a good anti-cross up move.
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Nephrite
06/05/2012 11:48 AM (UTC)
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TemperaryUserName Wrote:
But again: her levi-cancels. At high level, wouldn't that compensate for all of her other start-up problems? In a handful of matches, her zoning can do most of the work anyway.


Yeah, her levi-cancels are good once she gets to do them. I'm not sure how hard for her it is to get in and get them going though.

As for her zoning, I think it's good, but not nearly as annoying as Kabal's, Kenshi's or Freddy's. Her grounded fireballs have a lot of recovery and while her iAFs are pretty quick, I don't mind them as much since they don't knock down and can't be hit-confirmed into combos. I'd much rather deal with those than Mileena's and Kitana's iAFs, not to mention Kabal's iAFs. At least against Sindel I can try to jump over and even if I get hit it won't be as bad as against those other characters. Noob Saibot's tackles are also more annoying for me because of the knockdown.


TemperaryUserName Wrote:I don't see what's wrong with it. Ex-low fireball in conjunction with ex-step up (which hits overhead) forces the opponent into a mix-up situation. That looks solid to me. U+4 is a decent anti-air (though the timing is weird), and it also works as a good anti-cross up move.


Again, I'm not sure but I think you can hit her out of all of her wake-up options and even if you get hit by the low/OH mix-up it's only 13% damage max so it's not a big deal. I think she struggles badly with cross-ups when knocked down. U+4 is not bad for anti-air and cross-ups but yeah, it's a bit slow (18 frames I think) and I think I remember Mr. Mileena saying that it has a strange hitbox.

I mean, she's a solid character, but I just don't see her winning on her own a tournament like Final Round or MLG. There are too many characters that are far more ridiculous. I'd give armor to her enhanced scream and make her enhanced hair grab do 18% damage with less damage scaling in longer combos (this move is totally useless at the moment as it adds only 1% extra damage to longer combos and is the same in all the other properties to the normal version). The damage scaling on her X-ray is also ridiculous when performed in a combo that starts with "b+1, 2". Oh and for the love of god, why on Earth is her scream breakable?! That needs fixing.
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ZeroSymbolic7188
07/11/2012 03:12 AM (UTC)
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I used to play here a lot. She's just simply lacks the damage output of the big dogs, and she doesn't have some nasty gimmickness like the void trap.
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Unknown265
07/11/2012 05:10 AM (UTC)
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ZeroSymbolic7188 Wrote:
I used to play here a lot. She's just simply lacks the damage output of the big dogs, and she doesn't have some nasty gimmickness like the void trap.


Cyber Sub-Zero is a character that relies on gimmicky tactics and strategies. He has terrible pokes ('cuz Icy Parry), specials with no armor (NRS: "Because Dive-Kicks") and on top of that, no Armor on any moves except for the X-Ray.

But most of CSZ's normals leave him at neutral frames, or very little frame disadvantage (think minus 3). In more basic terms, Cyber Sub-Zero is a gimped version of Johnny Cage, but a character of his own altogether.
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