question about frames
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question about frames
04/10/2011 10:40 PM EDT
Frames means the frames per second it takes to execute a move correct?
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RE: question about frames
04/10/2011 10:47 PM EDT
Frames just means...frames.

And there are 60 frames in 1 second!
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RE: question about frames
04/10/2011 11:07 PM EDT
FlamingTP Wrote:
Frames means the frames per second it takes to execute a move correct?


When discussing frames in a fighting game, there are usually three measurements:

Startup Frames: These are the amount of frames that it takes for a move, once executed, to hit your opponent.

Active Frames: These are the amount of frames that a move has where it can hit your opponent--active frames do not begin until after startup frames, as the end of start up frames is the first possible frame where the move will hit the opponent.

Recovery Frames: These are the amount of frames that a move has once it hits, or is blocked, before you can take another action, which includes blocking.

Startup frames and recovery frames are fairly easy to capture using a device and program that plays recordings frame by frame. Active frames on the other hand is very difficult to capture because you must determine every possible frame that a move can connect with your opponent, so it would require a ton of trial and error.

You can also measure block stun frames (also called recovery frames I believe) to determine if a move when blocked gives you frame advantage. For example, if a move has 10 recovery frames, but causes 13 frames of block stun, that move nets you a 3 frame advantage.

There are also moves with "just" frames, which refers to a move that requires the user to input the command on an exact frame. These moves are incredibly difficult to pull off, but to my knowledge, at this time, there are none in the new MK.
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RE: question about frames
04/11/2011 12:17 AM EDT
Well, since we're on this subject, I hope we don't have to wait too long for the frame data to be released by NRS. The player obtained stuff is always very iffy.
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RE: question about frames
04/11/2011 12:34 AM EDT
TheDarkPassenger Wrote:
FlamingTP Wrote:
Frames means the frames per second it takes to execute a move correct?


When discussing frames in a fighting game, there are usually three measurements:

Startup Frames: These are the amount of frames that it takes for a move, once executed, to hit your opponent.

Active Frames: These are the amount of frames that a move has where it can hit your opponent--active frames do not begin until after startup frames, as the end of start up frames is the first possible frame where the move will hit the opponent.

Recovery Frames: These are the amount of frames that a move has once it hits, or is blocked, before you can take another action, which includes blocking.

Startup frames and recovery frames are fairly easy to capture using a device and program that plays recordings frame by frame. Active frames on the other hand is very difficult to capture because you must determine every possible frame that a move can connect with your opponent, so it would require a ton of trial and error.

You can also measure block stun frames (also called recovery frames I believe) to determine if a move when blocked gives you frame advantage. For example, if a move has 10 recovery frames, but causes 13 frames of block stun, that move nets you a 3 frame advantage.

There are also moves with "just" frames, which refers to a move that requires the user to input the command on an exact frame. These moves are incredibly difficult to pull off, but to my knowledge, at this time, there are none in the new MK.


Just frame moves confirmed here http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=P6vpldAgxfs
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RE: question about frames
04/11/2011 01:01 AM EDT
I think there is only one frame or two for pulling off a combo with cage's x-ray.
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RE: question about frames
04/11/2011 01:40 AM EDT
I think frame data might be included with the MK strategy guide. They were in the MvC3 one
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RE: question about frames
04/11/2011 04:26 AM EDT
good, that would be a serious help.
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RE: question about frames
04/11/2011 01:01 PM EDT
TheDarkPassenger Wrote:
FlamingTP Wrote:
Frames means the frames per second it takes to execute a move correct?


You can also measure block stun frames (also called recovery frames I believe) to determine if a move when blocked gives you frame advantage. For example, if a move has 10 recovery frames, but causes 13 frames of block stun, that move nets you a 3 frame advantage.


Technically frame advantage is blockstun - ( remaining active + recovery) since some attacks can land during the active frames but before the active frames are finish, aka meaties. There is also something call the static difference which is the difference in recovery time between the attacker's attack and the defender's blockstun, assuming you blocked the move on the first active frame. People often use this term interchangeably with frame advantage, though the formula for figuring out the static difference is slightly different.
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RE: question about frames
04/11/2011 04:03 PM EDT
blackl0tus Wrote:
TheDarkPassenger Wrote:
FlamingTP Wrote:
Frames means the frames per second it takes to execute a move correct?


You can also measure block stun frames (also called recovery frames I believe) to determine if a move when blocked gives you frame advantage. For example, if a move has 10 recovery frames, but causes 13 frames of block stun, that move nets you a 3 frame advantage.


Technically frame advantage is blockstun - ( remaining active + recovery) since some attacks can land during the active frames but before the active frames are finish, aka meaties. There is also something call the static difference which is the difference in recovery time between the attacker's attack and the defender's blockstun, assuming you blocked the move on the first active frame. People often use this term interchangeably with frame advantage, though the formula for figuring out the static difference is slightly different.


Great point, yes, remaining active frames need accounted for. Thanks for pointing that out.
Joe-Von-Zombie Wrote:Just frame moves confirmed here http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=P6vpldAgxfs
Thanks for the correction--I wonder if they will list it as a just frame in the move list menu?
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RE: question about frames
04/11/2011 05:10 PM EDT
Okay, what's a "just frame"?
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RE: question about frames
04/11/2011 07:57 PM EDT
TheBigCityToilet Wrote:
Okay, what's a "just frame"?


Let's say Sub-Zero has a normal two hit combo, which is done by pressing Square and then Triangle. As long as you hit the Triangle button within a certain amount of time, or frames, of the Square buton, the second hit of the combo will come out. For this example let's say that you must hit Triangle within 7 frames of the impact frame of the Square attack.

Now, let's change that second hit to a just frame input. Now, hitting the button within 7 frames of the Square attack will not get the move to come out. Now, the Triangle move is assigned to an exact frame following the impact frame of the Square move and the Triangle input must be executed during that exact frame or the move will not come out.

So, if Triangle is a just frame 6 frames after the impact frame of the Square move, you must input Triangle exactly 6 frames after the Square move, or it will not work.

To give you an idea of how tight the window is, you have just 0.0167 of a second window to input the command.

However, if I remember correctly, there are two different kind of just frames--one is called exact, and the other is something like fastest input, which functions a little bit differently. With that one I believe that you can mash the button, and as long as the input occurred while on the just frame it still comes out. Does anyone know for sure? I may just be crazy smile
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RE: question about frames
04/11/2011 09:53 PM EDT
SubMan799 Wrote:
I think frame data might be included with the MK strategy guide. They were in the MvC3 one


That would make the tier discussion last a lot shorter, lol.

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RE: question about frames
04/11/2011 10:02 PM EDT
m0s3pH Wrote:
SubMan799 Wrote:
I think frame data might be included with the MK strategy guide. They were in the MvC3 one


That would make the tier discussion last a lot shorter, lol.


Hahaha, yeah I really hope they include it--would save the players a lot of time and frustration gathering the data themselves.
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RE: question about frames
04/12/2011 12:20 AM EDT
TheDarkPassenger Wrote:
m0s3pH Wrote:
SubMan799 Wrote:
I think frame data might be included with the MK strategy guide. They were in the MvC3 one


That would make the tier discussion last a lot shorter, lol.


Hahaha, yeah I really hope they include it--would save the players a lot of time and frustration gathering the data themselves.


One of the mk vets/pros at TYM already confirmed that there will be no frame data in the guide.

And that was a beautiful written explanation Passenger. Save me the trouble. Personally, I think that just frame moves/links are really stupid but whatever.
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RE: question about frames
04/12/2011 12:50 AM EDT
So the frame data isn't included, alright then looks like my tier list is going to take awhile...grrr
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