Shoryuken posts a guide to help SF players transition to MK
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Shoryuken posts a guide to help SF players transition to MK
03/21/2011 06:11 PM EDT
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Very nice to see the biggest fighting site promote MK. Also makes an interesting point about how this MK is more similar to VF than any other fighter out there. I'd say it has more in common with Tekken (each button controls a limb, not sure if its like that in VF.)
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RE: Shoryuken posts a guide to help SF players transition to MK
03/21/2011 06:20 PM EDT
SRK Wrote:
Throws:Extremely easy to tech (~30 frame window)


Well I sure hope they've corrected this. I mean, there are a lot of other ways to make the game rushdown centric without giving people a year to tech.
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RE: Shoryuken posts a guide to help SF players transition to MK
03/21/2011 06:24 PM EDT
I also noticed they replace the FP/BP/FK/BK notation with LP/HP/LK/HK. Maybe they're doing this to help out the SF community.

Statue how long do you have to tech a throw?
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RE: Shoryuken posts a guide to help SF players transition to MK
03/21/2011 06:28 PM EDT
SubMan799 Wrote:
Statue how long do you have to tech a throw?


In SF?

SubMan799 Wrote:
I'd say it has more in common with Tekken (each button controls a limb, not sure if its like that in VF.)
While I'm waiting--I'm pretty sure VF goes Kick, Punch, Guard.
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RE: Shoryuken posts a guide to help SF players transition to MK
03/21/2011 06:32 PM EDT
Oh whoops. I thought you meant the article got it wrong and it took more/less frames. Now I get what you're saying after the edit

There are two different buttons used to tech a throw. One button (I think FP, not sure don't quote me here) techs front throws and another (BP?) techs back throws. Is there any other game that does this? Maybe that's why the window is large.
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RE: Shoryuken posts a guide to help SF players transition to MK
03/21/2011 06:47 PM EDT
Fighting games are not beat 'em ups. That always make my heart sink when I see people mix the two together.

But I suppose it is a good guide for those who don't have any experience with MK and are coming from the Capcom scene. Using Street Fighter terminology can help those people out, but I certainly hope they don't make a habit out of that.
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RE: Shoryuken posts a guide to help SF players transition to MK
03/21/2011 06:56 PM EDT
Pretty good guide, at least on the surface.
StatueofLiberty Wrote:
SRK Wrote:
Throws:Extremely easy to tech (~30 frame window)


Well I sure hope they've corrected this. I mean, there are a lot of other ways to make the game rushdown centric without giving people a year to tech.

Actually, I was reading the comments, and Konqrr (I think it was him) said that was false. It's much fewer frames than that.

Can't verify myself, but 30 frames seems like a ridiculously big window.
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RE: Shoryuken posts a guide to help SF players transition to MK
03/21/2011 06:57 PM EDT
Wanderer Wrote:
Fighting games are not beat 'em ups. That always make my heart sink when I see people mix the two together.


Yeah, It's a British thing I think.

And a correction on what I said earlier: Throw teching having a big window may or may not be NRS's attempt to foster rushdown. Since blocking builds meter, having a really long time to tech could do the opposite(turtleish)? I'm really confused about the logic behind all this and I'd like to brush it all off as it just being the old demo.

TemperaryUserName Wrote:
Actually, I was reading the comments, and Konqrr (I think it was him) said that was false. It's much fewer frames than that.
Oh, well then I'll definitely take his word for it before anyone else's.
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RE: Shoryuken posts a guide to help SF players transition to MK
03/21/2011 07:37 PM EDT
30 frame tech window is longer than blazblue purple throw tech window lol. I think the proper window should be 8-10 frames.
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RE: Shoryuken posts a guide to help SF players transition to MK
03/22/2011 08:04 AM EDT
He says in the guide in regards to the FP/BP -> LP/HP thing:

"No Back/Front. One hits harder. The other hits lighter. End of Story. Let's proceed."

Actually this makes perfect sense to me as it still does feel like one is lighter and one is heavier and with the positions constantly changing but button inputs for normals/specials always being universal the whole Front and Back attack thing doesn't make any sense. Actually that was one of my big concerns before playing the demo was that they actually were going to have button inputs constantly changing depending on stance/side of screen. Directions is one thing but switching square and triangle constantly would be too damn confusing especially with maining Scorpion who is ALL over the f'n place.

So I kind of agree with his synopsis and change of terms here. It does make more sense, is easier to follow, and it's even more accurate than the game designer's terms.
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RE: Shoryuken posts a guide to help SF players transition to MK
03/23/2011 12:39 AM EDT
Referring to the punches and kicks as light and heavy is idiotic because it's different for every character (damage properties, that is). Not every fighting game is the same, so there's no point in putting MK into SF language. It just doesn't work.

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RE: Shoryuken posts a guide to help SF players transition to MK
03/23/2011 05:17 AM EDT
m0s3pH Wrote:
Referring to the punches and kicks as light and heavy is idiotic because it's different for every character (damage properties, that is). Not every fighting game is the same, so there's no point in putting MK into SF language. It just doesn't work.


Yeah I definitely get, and mostly I agree with, what you're saying and the only attempt at a counter to that is for the most part, with some notable exceptions of course, the rear attacks in general at least "look" as though they would hit harder or have more effort behind them. In MvC3 the HP/K for each character is generally slower and stronger than their LP/K but I think their may be exceptions even in that regard such as the HP/K and LP/K being just as fast but having varying differences in hit properties, usefulness, damage, etc. I dunno been awhile since I played it, been too busy with work and MK demo when I do play games.

Also for the most part with the exception of Cage's FK vs his RK for most of the characters (according to Shoryuken's diagram of the basic normals below) the fronts do indeed do less damage than the rears:

Scorpion (1st column), Subzero (2nd), Cage (3rd), Mileena (4th).

(Values in % of life taken)
LP 3 3 3 4
HP 5 5 5 5
LK 5 5 7 5
HK 5 9 5 7

It does go on to mention the Cage's FK (or LK as he calls it) stands out as having different properties and moves slower than other character's FKs so it's the exception to the rule other than Scorpion whose basic normals all appear to be extremely even and balanced in damage and while some of the characters (even Mileena) sometimes do more damage, his normals have nicer properties that make up for the damage loss than most of theirs do.

And that is really the only argument for the sake of playing devil's advocate (or Socratic Method to us Philosophers, lol) that one can make without being biased, lol. I personally don't really care one way or the other, I just agreed with him on his points (for the most part) but, and this may seem contradictory, I also agree with your points (for the most part). Mostly I just look for the happy middle ground.
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RE: Shoryuken posts a guide to help SF players transition to MK
04/08/2011 11:39 PM EDT
SubMan799 Wrote:

There are two different buttons used to tech a throw. One button (I think FP, not sure don't quote me here) techs front throws and another (BP?) techs back throws. Is there any other game that does this? Maybe that's why the window is large.


The fact there are two buttons to break the throws you would need some time to determine which throw it is. So the start-up on each would have to be quite different hence the rather long time to allow a tech.

I'd guess you can't just press both buttons to tech, as it defeats the purpose of saying that their are 2 different buttons to tech.
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RE: Shoryuken posts a guide to help SF players transition to MK
04/09/2011 12:26 AM EDT
robs727 Wrote:
SubMan799 Wrote:

There are two different buttons used to tech a throw. One button (I think FP, not sure don't quote me here) techs front throws and another (BP?) techs back throws. Is there any other game that does this? Maybe that's why the window is large.


The fact there are two buttons to break the throws you would need some time to determine which throw it is. So the start-up on each would have to be quite different hence the rather long time to allow a tech.

I'd guess you can't just press both buttons to tech, as it defeats the purpose of saying that their are 2 different buttons to tech.


Correct me if i'm wrong (because i'd like to know), but I don't think there is a way to visually confirm the throws direction. Teching appears to be 50/50 in this game. If this is the case, then I don't think having a longer tech window will really change much (well, not as much as it would).
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RE: Shoryuken posts a guide to help SF players transition to MK
04/09/2011 10:26 AM EDT
I see throws teched in this game quite fequently. Especially from watching the videos by Gorrillagames of him vs his brother. He teched out of about 25% of his brothers throws LOL. Each time he would be like "nooo (quick panic)...get the hell off of me (realized he teched the throw)

My roomate techs my throws frequently as well. When they see that they've been grabbed, they mash buttons lol.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=T45C93IRaHQ&feature;=youtube_gdata_player

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