I am getting murdered in the Sub-Zero vs. Kitana match-up. I Dash-Block-Cancel towards the slut, and she's all like "I'm square-boosting, bitch!", and she's on THE OTHER side of the screen and the whole cycle repeats again. Help.

Also, I'm still trying to find a decent way to punish Raiden's teleport with Smoke. Any advice welcomed. I watched Shock play with Smoke against Raiden, and he was getting killed by the exact same setups.

Sub-Zero Vs Kitana:
Im no pro but I have some ideas you can try.1st off you can try trading fan tosses with for Ice Ball and free combo, then use a mix of slide and 2,2,2 combo to keep her close.
If you read the square wave punch you can jump up and ice clone in air so that she boosts into it.
Lastly very important against Kitana, if you duck but do not block, her fans go over you and dont deal any damage. So instead of dash block, dash crouch and see if that helps.

Raiden
Raiden online is a miserable bastard. and its up hill battle with anyone. The best way Ive found to deul with Raiden is to pick Johnny Cage and us a mix of down+3 and F+3 so that he never gets to wake up. The down 3 stops the teleport and the F+3 is actually a short combo attack that keeps them close. F+3 is a free combo if D+3 connects. So if you can land either its up to you to mix and keep him close. I really dont think you can out strategise Raiden online, hes flat broken and you just have to get lucky, Cage can keep the heat on once your in.

Don't you call my blue darling a slut EVAARRR AGAIN!!!


Anyway, I play with both Kitana and Sub-Zero, but Kitana is my main.

Like Zero said, leaving some ice clones in the air is not a bad idea. I too love square boosting against Sub-Zero to avoid his ice clones on the ground and get close to him and try to catch him for a massive combo.

However, Kitana can use her enhanced square wave boost to go through the ice clone and she'll do that happily as the ice clone itself doesn't do damage. Kitana doesn't need meter (at all) for big combos so she'll usually have a spare bar of super meter to go through the clone.

Also, be careful not to get hit with her instant air fan as you're trying to leave the clone in the air, as she can do decent damage combos off of those.

I think a good move to use would be his enhanced projectile, ice beam, Kitana is a jumpy character (instant air fans and air square boosts) so she'll very likely get caught by those quite often.

As you probably know, Kitana doesn't have any low hits as combo starters, so you'd wanna mostly block high against her. Every low move she does in the latter parts of the combos is also a combo finisher and those combos don't do lots of damage either.

Be careful with your slide, if she blocks it, she can punish it with a 45 % damage combo (no meter), so use those carefully.

Hope that helps at least one tiny bit.

I main Scorpion and my brother mains Smoke. I have a hell of a time with this match-up because my brother spams the crap out of Smoke's various teleports, especially the ones that just pass through things but don't attack so he will do it and hold down to crouch as he comes out of it so he can do some rapid low hit or an uppercut the moment I try to attack him as he comes out of the teleport (if I don't he'll still just kinda chip damage me to death).

I know that he will do this the problem is I haven't found a really good way to practice against Smoke fighting that way (the CPU sure as hell can't use him, lol) and Scorpion from what I can tell has very very few options to attack a crouching opponent quickly against someone constantly moving and ducking with Smoke's speed and be able to combo out of it (I like to do the most damage I can with what few openings I can reliably depend on someone leaving themselves open with). Most of his decent damaging low or overhead hits that would be worth doing are way too slow. Any suggestions besides the obvious "get better you just suck" or "pick someone besides Scorpion" lol?

i dont use nightwolf often, but purely out of interest (and the hope that i never get pounded so badly ever again), what in the name of FUCK am i supposed do to against noob saibot?

nightwolf is one of the best zoners in the game, but that LITERALLY goes OUT THE FUCKING WINDOW when his reflect move is ineffective against noob's shadows. noob's shadows are much faster than nightwolf's lightning or arrow moves and have better recovery. sure, nightwolf has better juggling potential (hatchet uppercut) but getting close enough to use it is just about impossible. the only strategy i found that worked was enhanced rhino charge, which flies through projectiles, but it uses a bar of meter so it's hardly an effective strategy.

anybody have any ideas? must be some nightwolf players out there ...

^ Yeah, enhanced rhino charge is the best way to get in, plus a few jumps here and there (when you're out of his up-shadow reach). So yeah, uses one bar of meter, but once you get to him, Nightwolf is superior up-close. Even if Noob Saibot teleports, he'll still teleport next to you.

It's similar with Johnny, he has to use his enhanced shadow kick to get close, or enhanced projectile.

i apologize, but I don't have much to add, but if anybody would like some help on how to get around Stryker, I might be able to help.


My question is in regards to Stryker v.s. Kano.

Stryker's roll is a good anti-zoning toll, but Kano usually recovers far too quickly for it to be consistently effective. Stryker's gun and grenade are also too slow to zone out Kano and bring him to actually fight.


Does anyone have a good strategy for getting in close with Kano. I usually dash block and punish the cannonball, but it's a constant up hill battle, anyways rant over.

Any advice would be greatly appreciated.

I play a lot as nightwolf and unfortunately Noob is going to be a poor matchup unless you can be very patient. As was previously posted the only special that will help you get in close is the shoulder charge, if blocked follow up with a jump in...if he catches on to you with noob's anti-air shadow then you'll have to switch to throwing in a 2nd shoulder charge (spammy I know but it will go through his anti-air attempt...you're basically gonna have to play a mix up game after determing two things:

#1: when is he teleporting (most noob players have some sort of pattern they follow and you can typically figure out when they are gonna throw a teleport at you...most times it's during a jump or after a shadow charge is blocked, something along those lines)

#2: Is he throwing multiple shadow charges (sry I don't recall off hand what the move is called i don't play as noob)....in my experience, most noob players will zone by throwing 2 or even throw of those shoulder charges in a row to keep you from throwing projectiles...since nightwolf's arrow is so slow this basically negates that move entirely.....figuring out your opponents play style and pattern on the shadow charges (also the timing, is he baiting your jump-in?, is he waiting for you to throw a projectile?, is it rapid succession?).....will allow you to time your own attacks, you can jump-in successfully over that move so get the timing down and you can land some nice combos with jump in+1 to start....try to hit this one when you connect...

jump in+1>b+1>qcf+1>1>1>qcf+1(enhanced)>1>1>2>2>FF+4

the tricky thing imo is nightwolf's most effective and damaging tactics will end up putting you at a disadvantage in terms of zoning....those shoulder chargers are going to send noob across the screen where you're going to have to work your way back in all over again...

considering that you might want to try ending your combos with the enhanced arrow shot which does a fair amount of damage and keeps you in tight quarters with your opponent...something like this should help you out...

jump in+1>b+1>qcf+1>qcb+1 (enhanced)

if you have 2 bars or more of meter then try this

jump in+1>b+1>qcf+1>1>1>qcf+1(enhanced)>qcb+1(enhanced)
(^^^isn't the most practical use of meter but against noob you're gonna have to take your opportunities when you get them)

nightwolfs only effective special against noob is gonna be the shoulder charge because the arrow and lighting are way to slow and give noob players a ton of options to punish....so you have to be very patient, be prepared to block a ton and play the zoning game, and play defensively baiting the teleport to punish and hoping he doesn't spam you with various shadow moves....

good luck man but that's a tough matchup imo...

Damn am I'm glad this thread is still on the first page.

I need some help against Quan Chi. I'm normally playing as Cyrax or Sektor. I have a ton of trouble getting Quan Chi off me. Maybe its just me playing badly but his mix up game seems pretty fuckin good. Other than baiting his teleport kick thing on wake up or otherwise I really don't know how to go about approaching this match up and I'm getting my ass handed to me like 9 times outta 10.

Also, anybody have any advice on how to play kitana. Feels like if I approach her on the ground I get poked out of anything I'm trying to start and if I jump in I eat fans and a big combo.

Any help here would be GREATLY appreciated.