ZeroSymbolics Ultimate Tier List (Full well-thought-out explanations for every character).
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posted10/08/2011 03:48 AM (UTC)by
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ZeroSymbolic7188
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04/09/2011 07:33 PM (UTC)
WIP: Stage 3.0 : Creating my actual Tier List, no descriptors yet, but list is in progress/complete depending on what stage of editing I am in when you click this.

ORGNAZATIONAL PHILOSOPHY:
This game undoubtly has variety, and yet we still do see some groupings of great characters, mediocre ones, and not so great ones. At any level it is easy to make those distinctions, for example a casual observer could tell pretty easily that Baraka is at a disadvantage against Kung Lao. So most of start trying to group characters. Who is the best? Who is challenging but viable? Who isn't worth bothering with?
However there are the Tier-List nay-sayers with their argument that making a tier list removes the human element from the fight. "Can't I have a good day with Baraka and beat Kung Lao?" The answer is that YES you most certainly could, but your misunderstanding the purpose of the tier list, and what it does.
A tier list does not say " Character A loses to Character B every time." It says "Character A has less options against Character B." Thats it and nothing more. A Tier Break (as in A tier > B tier) simply distinguishes groups of characters by the options they have in general against other characters. If we say that Character A is a B-Tier and that Character B is an A-Tier, what we are saying is that Character A generally has less options against the rest of the roster than Character B. Its not even a direct comparison between the two characters.
If we want to make comparisons where we say "Character A will beat Character B." We need to look at what is called a Match Up Chart.
A Match-up Chart compares two characters by saying "If two humans of equal skill level pick two different characters who wins most often?" This match up chart specifically says "who wins the most if 2 equally skilled opponents played 10 matches with their respective characters?" and if we read our Baraka vs Kung Lao Match-up we see that Lao does outclass Baraka 7 of the 10 fights. Again, please note that it also says Baraka wins 3 of those fights. The only way a match up chart would eliminate the human component would be if it said "Character A loses all 10 fights and Character A cannot ever win against Character B." Even a 1-9 match-up would allow for a human element. I have never in my life (23years) seen a match-up chart that ever said a character was favored 10 out of 10 times.
"So what if Baraka Beats Kung Lao?" It means that the Baraka player pulled off something that doesn't happen very often, and Kung Lao had something bad happen to him. The Baraka player should feel very good about this, but realize that he isn't necessarily a better player, he was just a much better player this particular fight.

MY TIER LIST:
My tier list is based on the above match-up chart, and most tier lists are. However the problem I have with most tier lists, is that they are made based on the overall match up (I'm refering to the TOTALS column on that chart.) If we did that we would have Raiden as the best character in the game, but look closely and you will see that Raiden has a bad match-up against Reptile. Its not a terrible match up, only 4-6. Yet if we make Raiden the best character in the game on our list, we ignore this match up. Its a bad flaw. If Raiden has to fight Reptile a lot, then Raiden is at a disadvantage a lot. That should be noted.
So I did a lot of thinking about how to organize my list. We have great characters like Raiden who have achilles tendons. We have bad characters that still have good match ups, and everything in between.
To me a tier list based on the Game of Chess made sense. You will see why, and as a bonus you'll learn a bit about chess as well.


KING TIER: The King is the most important piece in chess. He commands the army around him, and is indefinitely valuable. The game revolves around his defenses. Even the Queen is at the mercy of her king, because she must protect him. Yet the King himself is only as powerful as his command.

Here we see the black and white Kings with their full armies at disposal.


Kabal is the King Tier of Mortal Kombat he has 5-5 or better in every match up, meaning that as Kabal you are never at a disadvantage. However, he is only dominating over Sheeva(7-3). 5-5 and 6-4 are his average matchups. Kabal has all the tools, but you have to be able to command his arsenal. He is the only character who matches up like this.

QUEEN TIER: The queen is extremely powerful, dominating most of the other pieces. However on rare occasions is subject to danger, there is after all, another queen on the board, and sometimes they can be threatened by knights. Characters in this tier have very very dominating match-ups most of the time. Yet, they may have a character or two they need to be careful about, they also give each other trouble.

The Q represents the Queen while the arrows represent her impressive command of the playing field.


Raiden: Raiden has all the offense in the world. Tons of strong match ups. Yet he also has to be careful with his offense. He lacks a solid anti-air, and a lot the things he does are punishable. If the opponent can mount a solid defense and make Raiden pay for mistakes he will lose. Reptile is the best at punishing and slowing Raiden down (4-6) Match-up.


Kung Lao: Take Raiden, but give up some offense in exchange for versatility. You have Kung Lao. Lao is subject to being matched and outplayed by Kabal, out witted by a faster and slightly more safe Kitana, or kept in check by a Mileena who knows how to mix him up. He is ad advantage against the rest of the cast and has the X-factor of unpredictability.


Reptile: Reptile controls the pace of the game like no other character. His forceballs have variable speeds, and lead to free combos. In close he can surprise with the Elbow dash. Reptile is good at a lot of things, but in my opinion its his ability to control pacing that puts him over the top. Yet characters that have solid answers for the force balls can take away this strength. Lao can match him with hats, dive kicks, and teleports. Kang can out zone him with his own fireballs, and counter dashes with his parry. Nightwolf can knock back and absorb force balls (3-7 :( ).


Kitana: Kitana does only 2 things well, but if I was picking 2 things do well, Id pick what she does. The 1st thing is be safe as all hell, the second thing is have insane combo ability. Kabal can out pressure her. Kano can keep pace with her fans vs his knives, and has the up ball to deal with her air punch. Raiden can bring more offense than she can handle, and Reptile again keeps pace with her fans with his forceballs in a very nasty exchange for Kitana.


Cyber Sub-Zero: Cyber Sub Zero has is really on the edge between rook and queen tier. He gets up her because he has a lot of 6-4 match ups. Its not one particular trait that puts him here. Kind of like Kabal he just has something for everything. Yet he cant rushdown quite as well as Kabal and characters like Cage, Mileena, and Raiden give him trouble. If you keep pressure on him Cyber Sub-Zero has a hard time. Bring the best pressure you have and keep it on him. Watch out for Parry.. better yet bait and punish it.


Cyrax: Is here because with one bar of meter he can do 60%+ combos. He lives and dies by the net and bomb traps, so again bring your best pressure and dont let him breath. Kind of fitting, Cyrax is like a bomb, if you give him time he explodes, but if you can defuse him fast, he is harmless. Cut the right Wire.


Rooks control a sizable amount of the chess board, very strong but lack the versatility of the queen. They can threaten anything but must do so in a straight line.


Johnny Cage: Cage fits the Rook peace perfectly. He is the best rushdown character in the game. Making use of high priority, safe chains, and frame traps to put a quick end to matches. He is the special effects. However if you can keep him out, you can beat Cage because he lacks a teleport, and his shadow kicks are punishable on blocks. Enhanced Shadow is scary but burns meter. Don't get Caged.

Nightwolf
Sub-Zero
TIER BREAK
Kano
Mileena
Noob Saibot
Smoke
Jade
Sektor
Shang Tsung
Liu Kang
Scorpion
Ermac
Stryker
Sonya
Sindel
Jax
Baraka
Quan Chi
Sheeva
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Espio872
08/29/2011 05:42 AM (UTC)
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Are you adding Rain, Kenshi, and Skarlet to this list?
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ZeroSymbolic7188
08/29/2011 06:08 AM (UTC)
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Espio872 Wrote:
Are you adding Rain, Kenshi, and Skarlet to this list?


No. I dont have the experience with them and they are still too fresh for this. Its still going to be the best thought out and explained guide that you've ever read. Just doing little chunks as I feel like it. I don't want to rush it.
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Espio872
08/29/2011 06:13 AM (UTC)
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I was just curious, I'm keen on seeing what you've got in store for this.
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KingBellsprout
08/29/2011 07:34 AM (UTC)
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I don't like tiers due to the fact that I see the it more of the player than the character. Of course some characters will be easier to use and have better properties but I look at it as "My method of ______ is better or worse against your method of using _______ " (with the ______'s being two different characters or the same character).

I am still interested in what you come up with for this though. I hope it is something that will change my mind about tiers.
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ZeroSymbolic7188
08/29/2011 06:28 PM (UTC)
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How am I doing so far?
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CyberDemon13
08/30/2011 04:00 AM (UTC)
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ZeroSymbolic7188 Wrote:
How am I doing so far?


Great! Keep going. smile
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Espio872
08/30/2011 05:34 AM (UTC)
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Looks pretty good to me, looking forward to its completion.
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KingBellsprout
08/30/2011 06:07 AM (UTC)
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It is looking pretty good but Kung Lao should easily be up there with Kabal. Raiden I guess can stay where he is since it seems more and more people are learning that there are only a few things Raiden can do to dish out major damage which is causing them to learn how to stop those from happening. Kung Lao though.... is a different story. I'd move him up if this was my list.
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Nephrite
08/30/2011 01:02 PM (UTC)
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I'm not sure about that matchup chart. It says Mileena is 6-4 up against Kung Lao, however wasn't REO himself saying that KL is a bad matchup for Mileena? I remember reading at TYM that it's actually 6-4 (some even argue 7-3) in Kung Lao's favor. I think it's because his spin shuts down her tele-kick. I could be wrong though...

confused



Oh and, Kitana does much more than just 2 things well. She's an all around good character: good zoning, poking, pressuring, escaping pressure, punishing, building meter quickly and delivering some nasty unbreakable combos. wink
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m0s3pH
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Mortal Kombat Online - Community Manager

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08/30/2011 07:33 PM (UTC)
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Nephrite Wrote:
I'm not sure about that matchup chart. It says Mileena is 6-4 up against Kung Lao, however wasn't REO himself saying that KL is a bad matchup for Mileena? I remember reading at TYM that it's actually 6-4 (some even argue 7-3) in Kung Lao's favor. I think it's because his spin shuts down her tele-kick. I could be wrong though...

confused



Oh and, Kitana does much more than just 2 things well. She's an all around good character: good zoning, poking, pressuring, escaping pressure, punishing, building meter quickly and delivering some nasty unbreakable combos. wink


KL-Mileena is at least 6-4 in KL's favor and I am among those who think it's 7-3 (though I don't post over there). Spin shuts down telekick AND roll if used on reaction, so Mileena must try to zone and take advantage of any mistakes. In my experience, I've had success against Kung Lao using Mileena, but then again I've played some scrubby Kung Laos. It's not a good matchup for her.

It's looking like this game is more matchup-based than actually having tiers.
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Nephrite
08/30/2011 08:17 PM (UTC)
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^ I think his spin takes away her b+3 low starter as well. I have a feeling that good KL players might just be quick enough to react to it in time. Mileena's b+3 isn't really fast and we know how fast KL's spin is. Not sure on that, but it could be the case.
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m0s3pH
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Mortal Kombat Online - Community Manager

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Signature and avatar by ThePredator151

08/31/2011 03:45 AM (UTC)
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Nephrite Wrote:
^ I think his spin takes away her b+3 low starter as well. I have a feeling that good KL players might just be quick enough to react to it in time. Mileena's b+3 isn't really fast and we know how fast KL's spin is. Not sure on that, but it could be the case.


Well, Spin takes away just about everything that isn't a projectile, so you're playing with fire anytime you go up against a Kung Lao user.
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ZeroSymbolic7188
09/02/2011 04:33 AM (UTC)
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OK so, this project is on hold until further notice....because Zero's computer died. kicked the bucket, went on the long sleep..... ( This is DisturbedKittenCosette writing from her not dead lappy) Zero's projects willill continue at a later date when the technological situation becomes feasible.
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ZeroSymbolic7188
09/02/2011 03:51 PM (UTC)
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This time it is Zero, and hopefully my desktop of 7years only needs a cheap repair. I don't know at this time. I think that you all have Lao up on a pedestal though.

Lao is unsafe, everything he does is unsafe. Teleport is punished on reaction, spin is punishable. Dive Kick is punishable, hats can be jumped over and punished by full combo. Lao is powerful but one of the most unsafe characters in the game.
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KingBellsprout
09/02/2011 06:01 PM (UTC)
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ZeroSymbolic7188 Wrote:

Lao is unsafe, everything he does is unsafe. Teleport is punished on reaction, spin is punishable. Dive Kick is punishable, hats can be jumped over and punished by full combo. Lao is powerful but one of the most unsafe characters in the game.


Are you kidding me? The Spin is almost as safe as (if not safer than) Kano's Up-Ball.
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m0s3pH
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Mortal Kombat Online - Community Manager

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Signature and avatar by ThePredator151

09/03/2011 07:28 AM (UTC)
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The only thing that punishes spin on block is Reptile's dash, on whiff it still needs to be timed perfectly. Six frames ain't that long. It's practically safe.

And only idiots teleport with Kung Lao.
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Krayzie_Killin_Joker
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Thanks to xB$INx for the Kick-Ass Sig.

09/03/2011 11:26 AM (UTC)
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m0s3pH Wrote:
The only thing that punishes spin on block is Reptile's dash, on whiff it still needs to be timed perfectly. Six frames ain't that long. It's practically safe.

And only idiots teleport with Kung Lao.

Ive been playing alot of Lao's recently and Ermac's Force Lift is a pretty good counter against His Spin.
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ZeroSymbolic7188
09/04/2011 11:08 PM (UTC)
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Any projectile punishes the spin. Its getting a nerf (for the 3rd time).

People try to punish on block too much. Learn to anticipate and also to punish on wiff.
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ZeroSymbolic7188
10/08/2011 03:48 AM (UTC)
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Hey just letting ya'll know that I've abandoned this project because the latest patch radically shook up match ups and tier organization. There needs to be more post-patch play before I can do this. More data.

So it's on hold for now.
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