Jaxs exclusion from the first game
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posted12/05/2011 10:41 AM (UTC)by
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DG1OA
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06/15/2011 08:07 PM (UTC)
I've frequently read that Jax was meant to be in the first game, with Stryker as his name, and that they wanted a black character but that due to the lack of women, they created Sonya instead. Jax was then introduced in the second game.

If that is true, then I wonder why they couldn't have made Sonya a black woman. So they could simultaneously have a character that was both black and a woman. It's not like it would have stopped them from introducing Jax in MK2, if they wanted a black man that much.

I admit I badly want to play as a black lady. I'm not sure Tanya counts, and if she does then while she's fine, she's not the most interesting character. Jataaka is the only definitely black woman in the series, and she's yet to become a playable character.

So if what I've read about Jax being removed from the first game due to the lack of women is true, but that they also wanted a black character, then to me they've missed an opportunity to have a black gal in the game by making Sonya white, assuming they couldn't just have more than one woman, one of them being black. Not to say that her being white is a bad thing, but I find it interesting to imagine MK's first woman being a black one. To imagine one being one of the series' most iconic characters.

How would you have felt if Sonya had been black instead? Storywise Sonya isn't that important, but black women in stories rarely get as much attention as someone like her does, if there are even any that is. Case in point, Tanya (who's ethnicity is arguable imo) and Jataaka, a completely obscure and so far unplayable character. Both minor characters. If Sonya had been black, but still treated the exact same way, then it would have been rather progressive, socially speaking. And I'd have an Ebony chick to play as in many of the MK games (provided they made her a beautiful one).
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KeenanBoots
11/21/2011 09:00 PM (UTC)
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Jade is/was black.
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McHotcakes
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11/22/2011 02:42 AM (UTC)
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KeenanBoots Wrote:
Jade is/was black.


What do I get the feeling that this thread is going to devolve into another battle over what race Jade is?
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Espio872
11/22/2011 06:50 AM (UTC)
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I don't pick characters based on race, so if Sonya was black, I would still use her and consider her one of my favorite characters.

In fact, it would have been interesting if she was originally black because MK1 would have had the three main protagonists be asian, white, and black, diversity makes a roster great.

I however love Sonya as is and wouldn't change a thing about her accept her questionable MK2011 primary.


Everything happened for a reason, we got Jax next game, a unique grappler character and then we got glorious Stryker in MK3, their vision for Stryker was radically divergent prior to his MK3 debut, so I'm glad we got our first lady of MK, first black male, and first character without super powers each game.
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GlockXIII
11/22/2011 02:49 PM (UTC)
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Maybe they couldn't if find a black actress?
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McHotcakes
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11/23/2011 01:43 AM (UTC)
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GlockXIII Wrote:
Maybe they couldn't if find a black actress?


Didn't stop them from making Jade black in MK3
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daryui
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11/23/2011 06:49 AM (UTC)
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KeenanBoots Wrote:
Jade is/was black.
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GlockXIII
11/23/2011 07:25 PM (UTC)
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McHotcakes Wrote:
GlockXIII Wrote:
Maybe they couldn't if find a black actress?


Didn't stop them from making Jade black in MK3
Yeah and that was weird, at least they had one real black actor in the game.
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DG1OA
11/23/2011 08:09 PM (UTC)
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GlockXIII Wrote:
McHotcakes Wrote:
GlockXIII Wrote:
Maybe they couldn't if find a black actress?


Didn't stop them from making Jade black in MK3
Yeah and that was weird, at least they had one real black actor in the game.


You do know Jade's design in UMK3 was just a palette swap of Kitana's, right? Sure, one can easily pretend she's black, as we never saw her unmasked in that game. That's certainly because the actress was white, thus no black facial features (duh). Still, there was nothing disproving the idea of Jade being black, but also nothing confirming it.

Ever since MKD however, I think NRS has made it clear she is not black. Maybe they'll make her black again in the future, but it wouldn't surprise me if they made up their mind. From MKD to the latest game, she's consistently been designed to look like a Latina. Not sure about her ethnicity in MK: SM though, but that game is not canon anyway.

Back to Sonya, maybe they couldn't find a black actress, but I get the feeling it's never even crossed their minds to make Sonya black. To them it was a choice between a black man and a white woman. For female leads and secondary roles in fiction, white is treated as the default ethnicity, followed perhaps by Asians . Black men also receive much more attention than their female counterparts. Like I said, Sonya and Jax may not be the most relevent characters within the story, but they're far more significant than Tanya, Jataaka and yes, Jade, whatever race she, which is definitely not white nor Asian.

My point being, even if Jade's black, Sonya still gets more attention than she does. Is it because Sonya's white, or is it because of her story? One could say both, but Sonya's race is only crucial to her story if you take stereotypes seriously. Which I don't. NRS probably does, and that's why Sonya isn't black (nor Hispanic, Arab or a native American), and why Jax is a black man. Because white (and Asian) women and black men in fiction frequently play secondary roles, while black women and Latinas often play minor ones, and Arab and native American women often play even smaller roles.
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GlockXIII
11/24/2011 01:21 AM (UTC)
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Yeah, of course I know she was a palette swap! I stopped reading after the first sentence.
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Ninja_Mime
11/25/2011 04:26 PM (UTC)
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I'm not sure why you put so much importance on skin colour. It doesn't really matter either way. It is in fact quite possible that they didn't have much choice casting wise.

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Espio872
11/26/2011 01:51 AM (UTC)
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Sonya isn't more popular than Jade because of race. Stryker is much less popular than Jax and he's white, while Jax is black. Part of it is nostalgia and part of it is people preferring Jax and Sonya to Stryker and Jade either because they came during the MK1-MK2 period (considered the highest point of the series by many, even today), preference for design, story, or gameplay.

Race might be a factor in how a character is depicted, but the fan base doesn't tend to gravitate to people based on race either....it's why we have black, white, and asian characters holding onto the top spots in terms of favorites.

I love all four of them, but yeah.
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CyberDemon13
11/26/2011 06:58 AM (UTC)
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It wouldn't have mattered to me either way; she's a badass, race has nothing to do with it (just like Nightwolf, Native American, and in my opinion, THE biggest badass in the game glasses). Also, not to derail the thread, but I was always under the impression that Jade was some sort of Middle Eastern ethnicity, possibly Indian. smile
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DG1OA
11/26/2011 04:05 PM (UTC)
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Espio872 Wrote:
Sonya isn't more popular than Jade because of race. Stryker is much less popular than Jax and he's white, while Jax is black. Part of it is nostalgia and part of it is people preferring Jax and Sonya to Stryker and Jade either because they came during the MK1-MK2 period (considered the highest point of the series by many, even today), preference for design, story, or gameplay.

Race might be a factor in how a character is depicted, but the fan base doesn't tend to gravitate to people based on race either....it's why we have black, white, and asian characters holding onto the top spots in terms of favorites.

I love all four of them, but yeah.


What you point out in your second paragraph is is one of the things I'm talking about. Black women in fiction rarely get the attention that white women like Sonya and black men like Jax get as secondary characters. If what I read about Jax's exclusion from the first game is true, then in the MK team's mind they had to choose between a white woman and a black man. They couldn't even think of having a character that was both black and a woman. Maybe they indeed couldn't find a black actress, but then it coincidently resulted in Sonya being of the expected ethinicity.

Just imagine the first MK movie, with a black Sonya. Or her chapter in MKVDCU's story mode, which had her beating iconic (and also white) characters such as Catwoman and Green Lantern. Imagine her dialogue, mannerisms etc remaining otherwise unaltered. I know Hollywood, most of the mainstream crowd and in likelihood NRS would have an hard time picturing that. Because there's this idea, even if some people aren't consciously aware of it, that a character like Sonya is meant to be white.

I admit I am hugely fond of black women (and I'm a white man for your information, in case this matters) and I'm tired of seeing so little of them in worthwhile roles, roles that are frequently played by white men, white women and black men (and sometimes Asians of both genders too). And to have too few of them to play as. I know NRS could introduce a new black woman as an important character in future games, or just make Jataaka more relevant (as I prefer her over Tanya) but it's still interesting to me to think of what could've been.

Finally, out of curiousity, why isn't there a bigger demand for Jataaka (just her, not the whole trio) to be brought back? There is one for Tremor. What does he have that she doesn't (Likely a very pointless question, but I'm open to surprises)?
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Unknown265
11/27/2011 02:44 AM (UTC)
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DG1OA Wrote:
.....out of curiousity, why isn't there a bigger demand for Jataaka (just her, not the whole trio) to be brought back? There is one for Tremor. What does he have that she doesn't (Likely a very pointless question, but I'm open to surprises)?


I don't really know, but perhaps it is because Tremor has Earth-based abilities? Or maybe because Tremor is a brown ninja that seems to have been forgotten by Midway/NRS.
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KungLaodoesntsuck
11/27/2011 05:15 PM (UTC)
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I agree that the emphasis on race is stupid. So jax wasn't in MK1, big deal. Sonya was and she paved the way for a diverse roster. Jax, Jade, Kai, Darrius, hell even Sheeva. I really don't think it matters whether Jax was in the first MK or not. As for making Sonya black... I don't think it matters. Shes a strong independent woman who is too proud to ask for help. I doubt the color of her skin would affect her at all.
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raidenthefridge
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11/27/2011 09:37 PM (UTC)
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I believe Sonya was inspired by a Movie star of some kind like Cage and Kang.

Plus maybe they were being Rational and thinking about Character design rather than trying to look totally not racist.
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GlockXIII
11/30/2011 10:39 AM (UTC)
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raidenthefridge Wrote:
I believe Sonya was inspired by a Movie star of some kind like Cage and Kang.

Plus maybe they were being Rational and thinking about Character design rather than trying to look totally not racist.
I kinda agree, I think Sonya was added in so it wouldn't be a sausage fest and Jax was added in for racial demographic issues.
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McHotcakes
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12/01/2011 12:38 AM (UTC)
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raidenthefridge Wrote:
I believe Sonya was inspired by a Movie star of some kind like Cage and Kang.


I believe Boon said that she was based on Cynthia Rothrock the action star.
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Zmoke
12/01/2011 05:10 PM (UTC)
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All of the MK1 characters base on stereotypes, actors or mythology. Shang Tsung's look is common in many Asian movies, Liu Kang is based on Bruce Lee, Johnny Cage is based on Jean-Claude Van Damme, Sonya is probably based on Cynthia Rothrock, Raiden is based on Raijin, the ninjas are based in Japanese ninjas and different elements and Shokans (Goro) are based on Vishnu.

Sonya is a stereotypical white Arian; blonde, thin, young and female. Jax is also very stereotypical, especially in MK2011 with the Three Points! Fatality and with the overt patriotism. Ed Boon and John Tobias must have believed that it is safer to build this game using various stereotypes along with the excessive gore that was their trademark.
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RazorsEdge701
12/05/2011 10:41 AM (UTC)
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Actually, Raiden is based on Lightning from Big Trouble in Little China. They just decided to give him the name and backstory of a Japanese god to explain his powers.

But yeah, Sonya's design was inspired by an old kung fu movie actress named Cynthia Rothrock. That's why she's a blonde white chick.
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