Knockoff Ninjas
2D Kombat Klassics
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Knockoff Ninjas
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posted08/03/2004 04:03 PM (UTC)by

I know they all kinda sucked just for being knockoffs, but which was the best and worst? I think Chameleon was the worst, I mean come on, randomly morph into other knockoffs! The best probably Noob, since he kinda wasn't a ninja and seemed like less of a knockoff.Of course, Rain had his own moves(of which none were stolen) so that kinda makes him less of a knockoff to.


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maninthebox Wrote: I know they all kinda sucked just for being knockoffs, but which was the best and worst? I think Chameleon was the worst, I mean come on, randomly morph into other knockoffs! The best probably Noob, since he kinda wasn't a ninja and seemed like less of a knockoff.Of course, Rain had his own moves(of which none were stolen) so that kinda makes him less of a knockoff to. |


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I would say Ermac was the best. In UMK3 he was super mega ultra deadly. Plus he is the most different thanks to his different skin tones in addition to the different costume colors.
I would say the worst is Noob since he wasn't even a pallet swap, he was just a cutout, and he was just a broken hidden character until UMK3home and MKT and then they turned him into the stupidest newbie character ever by making his moves needlessly powerful and unbalanced. Plus, he was in a few of the games with ZERO storyline and then eventually was stuck in almost as an afterthought.
I would say the worst is Noob since he wasn't even a pallet swap, he was just a cutout, and he was just a broken hidden character until UMK3home and MKT and then they turned him into the stupidest newbie character ever by making his moves needlessly powerful and unbalanced. Plus, he was in a few of the games with ZERO storyline and then eventually was stuck in almost as an afterthought.


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I'd say the biggest 'knockoff' ninja was Human smoke. Ermac at a close second *aside from his telekenetic lift he's like a mix between Scorpion/Sub-Zero just with out the freeze in his blast*. I'd say the most original 'knockoff' ninjas was Rain and Noob Saibot. Noob can be kinda cheap..but not when your him. Rain's attacks are cool and pretty original..I just don't like his first fatality (super uppercut..how dumb). Wish he was in Deception.


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Electrow88 Wrote: I'd say the biggest 'knockoff' ninja was Human smoke. Ermac at a close second *aside from his telekenetic lift he's like a mix between Scorpion/Sub-Zero just with out the freeze in his blast*. I'd say the most original 'knockoff' ninjas was Rain and Noob Saibot. Noob can be kinda cheap..but not when your him. Rain's attacks are cool and pretty original..I just don't like his first fatality (super uppercut..how dumb). Wish he was in Deception. |
Yeah, but Ermac had a little "error" that inspired his creation.


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I think all the Ninja's have a personality about them just from their moves that sets eachother apart except of course Smoke. On the other hand, Smoke's personal attributes and minor style tweaks make him the best overall character, and even though he is a rip off of Scorpion, he is way more deadly in terms of gameplay. Plus ya know the fact that he smokes automatically makes him cool in the eyes of the other Ninjas. I think every Ninja has some kind of containment projectile. (when it connects allows for free hits after)
Harpoon
Freeze
Forceball
Telekinetic Slam
Disabler
Rainball
Lightening Bolt
And notice that Scorpion, Reptile, Smoke and Noob have all had the harpoon as a special move.
If there is any one Ninja I feel is overall a dumb idea, Khameleon, otherwise I think everyone arguably has their own personality, and if given their own unique costume in a future 2D game wouldn't be considered a total knockoff. Even if you look at Kano in MK3, he kinda looks like a maskless ninja knockoff, which I think is why they made him Noob Saibot in MK3.
Matt
Harpoon
Freeze
Forceball
Telekinetic Slam
Disabler
Rainball
Lightening Bolt
And notice that Scorpion, Reptile, Smoke and Noob have all had the harpoon as a special move.
If there is any one Ninja I feel is overall a dumb idea, Khameleon, otherwise I think everyone arguably has their own personality, and if given their own unique costume in a future 2D game wouldn't be considered a total knockoff. Even if you look at Kano in MK3, he kinda looks like a maskless ninja knockoff, which I think is why they made him Noob Saibot in MK3.
Matt


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- Your Source for UMK3 Competition -
When something better than UMK3 comes out, I'll let you all know, because it still hasn't happened yet.
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I think all the Ninja's have a personality about them just from their moves that sets eachother apart except of course Smoke. On the other hand, Smoke's personal attributes and minor style tweaks make him the best overall character, and even though he is a rip off of Scorpion, he is way more more deadly in terms of gameplay. Plus ya know the fact that he smokes automatically makes him cool in the eyes of the other Ninjas. I think every Ninja has some kind of containment projectile. (when it connects allows for free hits after)
Harpoon
Freeze
Forceball
Telekinetic Slam
Disabler
Rainball
Lightening Bolt
And notice that Scorpion, Reptile, Smoke and Noob have all had the harpoon as a special move.
If there is any one Ninja I feel is overall a dumb idea, Khameleon, otherwise I think everyone arguably has their own personality, and if given their own unique costume in a future 2D game wouldn't be considered a total knockoff. Even if you look at Kano in MK3, he kinda looks like a maskless ninja knockoff, which I think is why they made him Noob Saibot in MK3.
Matt
Harpoon
Freeze
Forceball
Telekinetic Slam
Disabler
Rainball
Lightening Bolt
And notice that Scorpion, Reptile, Smoke and Noob have all had the harpoon as a special move.
If there is any one Ninja I feel is overall a dumb idea, Khameleon, otherwise I think everyone arguably has their own personality, and if given their own unique costume in a future 2D game wouldn't be considered a total knockoff. Even if you look at Kano in MK3, he kinda looks like a maskless ninja knockoff, which I think is why they made him Noob Saibot in MK3.
Matt
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MK2KungBroken Wrote: If there is any one Ninja I feel is overall a dumb idea, Khameleon |
Agreed.
Interesting to fight against.
Pointless to fight as.


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MK2KungBroken Wrote: I think all the Ninja's have a personality about them just from their moves that sets eachother apart except of course Smoke. On the other hand, Smoke's personal attributes and minor style tweaks make him the best overall character, and even though he is a rip off of Scorpion, he is way more more deadly in terms of gameplay. Plus ya know the fact that he smokes automatically makes him cool in the eyes of the other Ninjas. I think every Ninja has some kind of containment projectile. (when it connects allows for free hits after) Harpoon Freeze Forceball Telekinetic Slam Disabler Rainball Lightening Bolt And notice that Scorpion, Reptile, Smoke and Noob have all had the harpoon as a special move. If there is any one Ninja I feel is overall a dumb idea, Khameleon, otherwise I think everyone arguably has their own personality, and if given their own unique costume in a future 2D game wouldn't be considered a total knockoff. Even if you look at Kano in MK3, he kinda looks like a maskless ninja knockoff, which I think is why they made him Noob Saibot in MK3. Matt |
Yeah, but what about Rain? I mean, he may have had original moves, but he really didn't have much of a story.Hell, he didn't even have an ending in UMK3.And both him and Ermac existed to fill up space and becuase of rumors that the team themselves placed with little or no truth to them.And you your self said that 4 of them have had that damn spear. But I do agree that I would like to see perhaps all of them in deception, with their own unique costume, to explain their story, since they have already been made.I am just fine as long as no more knockoffs are made.Also, 2 things:
1. Noob didn't have a disable block move like some of you are saying.It was to disable special moves.Also, what about Reiko? I think he was just as much as a knockoff as the others.


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What I meant was not talking about story, I was talking about playability. Every ninja has their own unique moveset by the time you get to MKT where they all appear. In MKT, Noob's Disabler make's your character unable to contact hits, or block, it's probably the least effective containment, since it's not really by definition containing the character in a duration of frames where they cannot control their movement, but it does make getting a succession of hits for free without any risk. It was probably their way of balancing the most broken move ever.
Here's a run down on all all the pure basics for the ninjas.
Scorpion: Spear, teleport punch, forward teleport punch, air throw, small low damage ground combos. His containment properties: Spear pulls you towards him, if you jump they become lucid. The most damage you can get off it is in the corner, roundhouse, then quickly tap forward + Run + HK for 3 hits 36%.
Sub-zero: Freeze, slide (very fast), ground freeze, medium damage ground combos, one launcher combo with decent basic follow up damage. Two containment properties, freeze stops the opponent in a fixed point on the screen, where you have a multitude of different options for doing damage, and the other, opponent moves away from you slowly but still allowing for good damage, both allowing jumping as a possibility.
Reptile: Slow Forceball, Fast Forceball, Acid Spit, Slide (slow), Elbow Dash, Invisibilty, twice the moves than that of pretty much every other character, and probably the most playability depth, or at least rivaling Ermac. The invis sets him apart from all the other Ninjas moreso than any other move. Low damage ground combos, with a limited launcher. His containment properties make you flip in the air towards him, setting up somewhat OK damage for beginners and very good damage for more advanced players, using his elbow dash as a vehicle for damage.
Smoke: Spear, teleport punch, air throw. Ground combos are small and low damage, but he has 2 launcher combos that set up huge juggling damage even for beginners. He is a little, to a lot faster than everyone else as well. Air throw+ launcher combo+containment within combos+speed+teleport punch=top tier.
Ermac: Telekinetic lift, disappearing teleport punch, fireball. Low to medium damage ground combos. Containment properties, invisible collision box, and the containment duration makes your opponent stutter in air, slam onto the ground and bounce towards Ermac similar to the forceball, with a limited length of range, but about as much height as Kabal spin, making it really deadly anytime someone jumps at you from over 3/4 screen distance, setting up well over 50% for beginners and up to 75% for more advanced players, because the lift doesn't enable damage protection.
Rain: Rainball, Lightening Bolt, Ridiculous Roundhouse. All three are in a sense containment moves, and by connecting any one of them you can start his infinite. Even via ground combo, which are medium to high damage, and this is why he is so broken. The infinite itself is not particularly easy to pull off on every character, but the principle of the matter is in question. The lightening bolt makes you bounce off the ground straight up, allowing his rainball to connect, why allows you to control where your opponent is in the air for a short time, and his third, the roundhouse, knocks you across the screen to the other side, coupled with a HP juggle to another roundhouse and some good timing, you have an infinite.
Noob Saibot: Disabler, teleport slam, clone grab. Ground combos are medium damage. Pretty much again all three are containment moves, however the only one that allows for a surefire combo is the teleport slam, which makes your opponent bounce next to you allowing for a few hits. The Disabler makes your opponent unable to do damage or make you sell hits, block, throw, or do specials, but they can still move around to avoid Noob's attacks. The clone grab has a very weird arch to the descent of the character and pretty much nothing can come of this move that is worth a damn.
Matt
Here's a run down on all all the pure basics for the ninjas.
Scorpion: Spear, teleport punch, forward teleport punch, air throw, small low damage ground combos. His containment properties: Spear pulls you towards him, if you jump they become lucid. The most damage you can get off it is in the corner, roundhouse, then quickly tap forward + Run + HK for 3 hits 36%.
Sub-zero: Freeze, slide (very fast), ground freeze, medium damage ground combos, one launcher combo with decent basic follow up damage. Two containment properties, freeze stops the opponent in a fixed point on the screen, where you have a multitude of different options for doing damage, and the other, opponent moves away from you slowly but still allowing for good damage, both allowing jumping as a possibility.
Reptile: Slow Forceball, Fast Forceball, Acid Spit, Slide (slow), Elbow Dash, Invisibilty, twice the moves than that of pretty much every other character, and probably the most playability depth, or at least rivaling Ermac. The invis sets him apart from all the other Ninjas moreso than any other move. Low damage ground combos, with a limited launcher. His containment properties make you flip in the air towards him, setting up somewhat OK damage for beginners and very good damage for more advanced players, using his elbow dash as a vehicle for damage.
Smoke: Spear, teleport punch, air throw. Ground combos are small and low damage, but he has 2 launcher combos that set up huge juggling damage even for beginners. He is a little, to a lot faster than everyone else as well. Air throw+ launcher combo+containment within combos+speed+teleport punch=top tier.
Ermac: Telekinetic lift, disappearing teleport punch, fireball. Low to medium damage ground combos. Containment properties, invisible collision box, and the containment duration makes your opponent stutter in air, slam onto the ground and bounce towards Ermac similar to the forceball, with a limited length of range, but about as much height as Kabal spin, making it really deadly anytime someone jumps at you from over 3/4 screen distance, setting up well over 50% for beginners and up to 75% for more advanced players, because the lift doesn't enable damage protection.
Rain: Rainball, Lightening Bolt, Ridiculous Roundhouse. All three are in a sense containment moves, and by connecting any one of them you can start his infinite. Even via ground combo, which are medium to high damage, and this is why he is so broken. The infinite itself is not particularly easy to pull off on every character, but the principle of the matter is in question. The lightening bolt makes you bounce off the ground straight up, allowing his rainball to connect, why allows you to control where your opponent is in the air for a short time, and his third, the roundhouse, knocks you across the screen to the other side, coupled with a HP juggle to another roundhouse and some good timing, you have an infinite.
Noob Saibot: Disabler, teleport slam, clone grab. Ground combos are medium damage. Pretty much again all three are containment moves, however the only one that allows for a surefire combo is the teleport slam, which makes your opponent bounce next to you allowing for a few hits. The Disabler makes your opponent unable to do damage or make you sell hits, block, throw, or do specials, but they can still move around to avoid Noob's attacks. The clone grab has a very weird arch to the descent of the character and pretty much nothing can come of this move that is worth a damn.
Matt


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Heres my order of Knock off ninjas
1.chameleon
2.Rain
3.Ermac
4.Noob reason why noobs the last is because he was in mk2. and been around for awhile.Ermac would of been in his place but he was just a glitch and you couldnt fight him or be him until Umk3.
1.chameleon
2.Rain
3.Ermac
4.Noob reason why noobs the last is because he was in mk2. and been around for awhile.Ermac would of been in his place but he was just a glitch and you couldnt fight him or be him until Umk3.
Worst: Chameleon( They should bring him back with new powers and a good storyline.)
Rain
Smoke(is a faster scorpion, and he had a good story)
Ermac
Tremor( I didn't play SF, but I hear he was cool)
Noob Saibot
Reptile
Reiko
Best: Subzero(younger) he's the same as the older, but with extra powers.
There is only one worst, because the rest are cool. They all were unique, even Smoke.
Rain
Smoke(is a faster scorpion, and he had a good story)
Ermac
Tremor( I didn't play SF, but I hear he was cool)
Noob Saibot
Reptile
Reiko
Best: Subzero(younger) he's the same as the older, but with extra powers.
There is only one worst, because the rest are cool. They all were unique, even Smoke.
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