ranking, means who is the best? I kind of agree with your list, but you didn't included the 4 bosses(Khan, Goro,Motaro,Kintaro) who would have been on top of my list
i totally agree about Noob Saibot being number 1

Bosses in this order:
Motaro
Kahn
Kintaro
Goro

This is hard cause I love Kintaro but Motaro is by far the easiest character to when with.

If you include the bosses, Shao Kahn is varitibly invincible.

The list of top tier in MKT is pretty much the same as UMK3 with some minor change ups and add ins.

Noob Saibot
Kabal
MK2 Kung Lao
Human Smoke
Nightwolf
Baraka
Kano
Ermac
Rain
Robot Smoke
Jax

They are all in the official top tier, of course leaving room for player specific ability, a few others as well, but those are real powerhouses.

Matt

I would add Rayden to your list, and have rain a little higher.

MK2KungBroken Wrote: If you include the bosses, Shao Kahn is varitibly invincible. The list of top tier in MKT is pretty much the same as UMK3 with some minor change ups and add ins. Noob Saibot Kabal MK2 Kung Lao Human Smoke Nightwolf Baraka Kano Ermac Rain Robot Smoke Jax They are all in the official top tier, of course leaving room for player specific ability, a few others as well, but those are real powerhouses. Matt

I would consider Stryker top tier, he has mad moves and great combo's.

If Raiden did MK2 damage like MK2 Kung Lao, MK2 Jax, Johnny Cage, and Baraka, he would be up there, but he's really not any threat to any of those characters unless in really skilled hands. DreemerNJ's MK2 Raiden can stand up to my sadistic MK2 Kung Lao. Rain is up there, but the list I made wasn't really going in a specific order, a lot of those characters are in mini groups, the top tier, and the not quite top tier, but still contenders. After that list it gets really fuzzy as to who is defintely better than who, both Subs, MK3 Kung Lao, MK 2 Raiden, Reptile, Sindel, Stryker, Scorpion, Kitana, Jade, Liu Kang, Sektor, Sonya, they all have specific things about them that are useable and abuseable, but it's good that characters are so neck and neck, which is why the game is so much more balanced than people think. Then there's characters like Mileena, Shang Tsung, Cyrax, Sheeva, Johnny Cage, MK1 Raiden, MK1 Kano, MK2 Jax. And a lot of those characters even have something about them that can be abused successfully, but you really have to know what you are doing. Mileena's roll for instance is amazingly useful, the damage protection sucks, but regardless, there is a delay to it that can throw people off, and you can set up so nifty combos with it, roll, run in, HP, roll, run in HK, etc. Cyrax's net is great if you can time people's attacks to trade a hit for the net everytime. Jax and Johnny Cage have the simple advantage of higher damage, uppercuts do 24% instead of 21%, roundhouses do I think 21% instead of 17%, and they do higher chip damage off regular hits.

Things like teleports, air throws, launcher combos, containment moves, they all help characters out. For some, if you took any one thing away from them, it would drop them considerably. Human Smoke is terribly unbalanced in this case. He's fast, has a teleport, air throw, launcher combo, and containment. He probably shouldn't have had an air throw at least, that would really seperate him and Scorpion. MK2 Kung Lao has a teleport, launcher combo, MK2 damage, and air attack, he's just brutal, but he has a lousy uppercut which hurts him in some scenarios, a good counter to him is Baraka. But something as simple as anti air jump kick dash kick is 33% and is second nature, so in reality, that's a 33% jump kick. MK3 Kung Lao's dash kick does far less damage and I believe enables damage protection. His spin is disabled after 1 usage in MKT as well, which hurts him significantly, however, his normal juggling infinites are just as easy if not easier.

Baraka has a pointy jump kick which has insanely high priority, the blade spin is terrible broken, (1 spin = 2 spins guaranteed +HK = 57% and no damage protection) the blade fan which is supreme anti air, the blade swipe is very fast, plus MK2 damage, fast Kano-like sweep, it really makes him a contender.

OK not gonna go into everyone lol.

Matt

to KungBroken
Mhh you sounding like someone that really knows about MKT high-level gameplay, but when i hear all that I asking myself, isnt MKT too broken to can be serious played on high-level?
I mean, many 100% Combos, insane DMG differents ect. (I dont count the countless bugs, like sometimes uppercut just dont hit ect.)

KillerMiller Wrote: to KungBroken Mhh you sounding like someone that really knows about MKT high-level gameplay, but when i hear all that I asking myself, isnt MKT too broken to can be serious played on high-level? I mean, many 100% Combos, insane DMG differents ect. (I dont count the countless bugs, like sometimes uppercut just dont hit ect.)

There are some easy 100% damage combos that hurt the game I think, but for the most part 100% damager combos aren't going to happen in real gameplay. Kung Lao and Stryker are the real killers for those I'd say, but even though they aren't terribly difficult, most people don't use them anyway, I guess they might be harder for some.

Also, in general for the PSX version, there are reasons for things like Uppercuts not hitting and you can get used to that if you play it enough to learn how the system works. Its not exactly buggy, since things like that become so predictable. For instance, if you net someone with Cyrax, you might as well not run up and try to uppercut since it whiffs so often in that case. I assume its a combination of Cyrax's uppercut hit box and the fact that you are pushed away slightly by the net which has a larger box then the character inside does so you have to uppercut at the right time for their selling frames to allow the hit, since not all selling frames will allow it in that case.


As far as the rankings, I'd have to stick to MK2KungBroken's estimation. You just have to remember to allow for personal skill. Those would be top in the whole game in general, but for me personally, my top two characters would be Sindel and MK2 Raiden since they are the ones I am most successful with. But, I also accept that it will be an enormous effort to try to defeat a good MK2 Kung Lao or Kabal with either of them.

When it really comes down to it, the revision of the PSX MKT is virtually identical to UMK3 except for three things. Speed, 33% faster, the moves they changed and added on purpose (not glitch related changes as there aren't many) and more characters. Uppercuts not hitting happen in UMK3 and MKT, not just including a circumstance like Dreemer's example, which also happens in UMK3, but I would have to say less. You can time jump ins and not attack and practically manuever around an uppercut, but it all depends on when the person does it. Sometimes you will land right next to the person and the uppercut will sail completely through them, but that also happens in UMK3. The two systems are so much the same it's really uncanny, the only differences in collision detection and speed are due to different size sprites, and less sprites altogether. The N64 version was never updated and is incredibly broken. It is as broken as the original PSX version and more. Not only are juggles easier because of added height to juggles and launchers, but moves are just different. Properties for moves that balanced them are removed, and too much of the AI programming was spilled over to the human control. For instance, teleport punches by Smoke, Scorpion, and Ermac have virtually no time limit between uses, and the hit limit I have seen as many as 6 hits before it is disabled, when in the arcade it is 4. I am surprised Kitana's fan still has a time limit on it. But on PSX, a widely known glitch is Sub-zero's invisible freeze. Throw freezes out quickly with no neutral state between them and it disappears, I think this is a bug, but it could have been intentional. A good way to mess someone up who abuses this, or the air freeze then regular freeze technique is to attempt to block the freeze, but release block the moment it's about to hit you, you'll actually see yourself frozen in block frames, and chances are, the other person has already started to do the regular freeze, and it will come out and double ice backfire on them because they see you actually blocking up until the last instant and expect you to block it. They won't try this annoying tactic anymore, but make sure they are using it carelessly. A lot of people still don't take the revised MKT for PSX seriously, but there's really no reason not to.

Matt

What are these "Official rankings" that I hear mentioned?

born-again-vampire Wrote: Bosses in this order: Motaro Kahn Kintaro Goro This is hard cause I love Kintaro but Motaro is by far the easiest character to when with.

I agree with that boss order. Motaro is a brute.

How about Chameleon/Khameleon?

The official rankings would be the actual tier listing based on how effective a character can be depending on the amount of effort that is used to be effective, through experience and years of playing, but who people who actually understand the game.

Kabal would be #1 for UMK3, that is as decisive as Magneto being top tier in MvC2.

Matt

MK2KungBroken Wrote: The official rankings would be the actual tier listing based on how effective a character can be depending on the amount of effort that is used to be effective, through experience and years of playing, but who people who actually understand the game. Kabal would be #1 for UMK3, that is as decisive as Magneto being top tier in MvC2. Matt

have you ever done a full one for MKT?

I can't give you 100% accurate tier listings as I tend to not believe whole heartedly in tier listings myself as per 1. 2. 3., but this is a good idea based on grouping:

Top Tier:
Noob Saibot, Kabal, MK2 Kung Lao, Human Smoke, Nightwolf, Baraka, Ermac, Robot Smoke, Rain, MK3 Kano, MK3 Jax

Mid Tier:
MK3 Kung Lao, MK2 Raiden, Sonya, Sindel, Kitana, Classic Sub, Liu Kang, Unmasked Sub, Scorpion, Stryker, Reptile, Cyrax, Jade, MK2 Jax

Bottom Tier:
Sektor, Johnny Cage, MK1 Kano, MK1 Raiden, Sheeva, Mileena, Shang Tsung

Again, remember to leave room for personal usage ability. This is just grouping them based on how easily someone could pick up this game and learn how to abuse certain tactics. Things like Human Smoke's pop up combo make him better than Scorpion, when otherwise they are virtually identeical, however Smoke's walking speed might be different. MK1 Raiden and MK2 Raiden are nearly the same exact character except MK2 Raiden has reverse electricity, and better control, MK1 Raiden just feels clunky and unnatural, they do the exact damage for their combos that are the same, and neither does MK2 damage. If MK2 Raiden did MK2 damage like Cage, Baraka, MK2 Kung Lao, and MK2 Jax, he'd be top tier in my book, nearly 60% pop up combos are always available with Raiden. Even though Johnny Cage has the MK2 damage, he's too slow and his normals aren't as good as they should be. He has some good damage easy combos, but his lack of set ups hurts him severely, incase anyone wondered why I ranked him so low, it wasn't for lack of trying. If there's any other questions about specific characters, I could try and answer them.

Matt

ermacmk5 Wrote: Has anyone ever seen a gamepro or other big magazine rank characters on those charts (with the head to head stats). I tried doing the rankings myself to MK T and this is what I came up with: 01.Noob Saibot 02.Classic Sub-Zero 03.Nightwolf 04.Rain 05.Jade 06.Sub-Zero 07.Kabal 08.Smoke 09.Reptile 10.Sonya 11.Raiden 12.Ermac 13.Scorpion 14.Human Smoke 15.Cyrax 16.Liu Kang 17.Shang Tsung (Not counting morphs) 18.Kung Lao 19.Kano 20.Sheeva 21.Jax 22.Johnny Cage 23.Sindel 24.Baraka 25.Stryker 26.Sektor 27.Mileena 28.Kitana thoughts?

Why is kitana all the way in the bottom!

Because that person doesn't know how to rank characters.

Matt

buterbals113085 Wrote: ermacmk5 Wrote: Has anyone ever seen a gamepro or other big magazine rank characters on those charts (with the head to head stats). I tried doing the rankings myself to MK T and this is what I came up with: 01.Noob Saibot 02.Classic Sub-Zero 03.Nightwolf 04.Rain 05.Jade 06.Sub-Zero 07.Kabal 08.Smoke 09.Reptile 10.Sonya 11.Raiden 12.Ermac 13.Scorpion 14.Human Smoke 15.Cyrax 16.Liu Kang 17.Shang Tsung (Not counting morphs) 18.Kung Lao 19.Kano 20.Sheeva 21.Jax 22.Johnny Cage 23.Sindel 24.Baraka 25.Stryker 26.Sektor 27.Mileena 28.Kitana thoughts? Why is kitana all the way in the bottom!

Because it's impossible to get over a 33% combo with her...she's weak, and dumbed down. In mortal Kombat 2, she was one of the best characters, then they dumbed her WAYYY down.

Practical use 49% Kitana Combo

http://www.darktemplarz.com/tempmatt/kitana49.wmv

They didn't dumb her down, they balanced her, there's a difference. She's way better than last. She's probably dead center.
Matt

Sonya should be top tier in mkt.

Just because someone has a 50% combo doesn't mean that he/she is good nor balanced. The truth is she is not very effective. A lot of it has to do with her kicks, speed, fans, etc. And it's not just Kitana...it's Mileena and Jade too. All the MK2 women have been crapified in UMK3.

MK2KungBroken Wrote: Practical use 49% Kitana Combo http://www.darktemplarz.com/tempmatt/kitana49.wmv They didn't dumb her down, they balanced her, there's a difference. She's way better than last. She's probably dead center. Matt

Which is why I said she is middle. Kitana is still usable in UMK3 and MKT, and Jade is a monster as well if you know how to use her, but again, tier doesn't apply to them being easy to use, they are characters who require some more effort, but not nearly as much effort as Shang, or Sheeva, which is again, why they are middle. Mileena requires a lot more effort than Jade and Kitana. You never got to play as Jade in MK2 against anyone, if she could never be hit by projectiles that would be broken, so they gave her a move that can be manually performed, and frequently, to avoid projectiles. Her return ninja star is useful. Her dash kick is fast, and useful, and if you do one, you can counter a person's counter with another one instantly after, and most of the time, get a 3rd, just like Nightwolf's shoulder tackle. Their run jabbing is very effective. Run under roundhouses are great with them because of their sprite size and the way they do their roundhouse. They all have a great standing HK, and decent uppercut. Kitana's fan traps are just as they were in MK2. The damage protection placed upon them was a necessary change because she could do too much damage in MK2. Double damage protection off the fan lift is another thing they did to keep from having Kitana players turtle, because when you see your combos aren't doing much damage, you have to find other ways to win, and they are there. Mileena is also somewhat useable. Rolling under projectiles is great, it sets up some OK juggles with her. Her drop kick sucks unless you use it as a cross up. Her sais are less "broken" than they were in MK2, not dumbed down. They were way too spammable in MK2. They even changed Jax's ground pound because that was too broken in MK2. These kinds of changes anger cheese dependent players because they remove or change something someone could take advantage of to easily win matches with little effort, not based on their skill as a player. It's a shame they had to do MK4 the way they did it because if they did another 2D game and kept a lot of the characters you would have seen changes to characters like Kabal and Nightwolf, to make them less cheesey.

A lot of talk from Chicago players ranking characters based on how they use them is one thing, but I don't 100% follow that grouping as what I have been up against for years of playing many many different people as well. Especially on Kaillera, even though yes there is lag, yes there is a certain level of uncertainty, but being able to see people whom I can destroy 60 games to 2, and their effectiveness with specific characters, I see way more people successfully use Smoke over Cyrax, and Cyrax over Sektor, and Kitana over Jade, and Jade over Mileena, just for some examples. Chicago player Lex ranks Cyrax as the worst Robot Ninja, but from what I have seen, Cyrax's containment, higher damage combos, and bombs, help him more than the teleport uppercut, and smart missiles. This isn't me saying how I use characters, it's me judging how I do against other characters over a spread of multiple opponents, and who I would "worry" about more than others, and I beat 99% of the people I have played in UMK3 consistantly.

Matt

Really people, he is telling the truth...I've played tons of people on Kaillera and in person. MK2KungBroken is the best I've ever played at UMK3, with any character...even better than MKL, which I've played a lot with as well. I've never played Lex, but I'd say better than him as well.

Smoke is the best cyber due to his air throw and harpoon. Cyrax is middle because of damage and containment. Sektor is the worst cyber because he doesn't have many options, and if you're a good player you can get out of his traps easily.

Sektor in MK Gold is a totally different story...his homing missles are without limits and impossible to overcome. He is the most broken MK character IMO.

Hell Sektor, Kitana, and Baraka are way too broken in MK Gold (in that order).

born-again-vampire Wrote: Just because someone has a 50% combo doesn't mean that he/she is good nor balanced. The truth is she is not very effective. A lot of it has to do with her kicks, speed, fans, etc. And it's not just Kitana...it's Mileena and Jade too. All the MK2 women have been crapified in UMK3. MK2KungBroken Wrote: Practical use 49% Kitana Combo http://www.darktemplarz.com/tempmatt/kitana49.wmv They didn't dumb her down, they balanced her, there's a difference. She's way better than last. She's probably dead center. Matt

You missed his point. Someone said it was impossible to get over 33%. He was rebutting it.