Raidens character MK1 -- evil?
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posted07/20/2013 05:46 AM (UTC)by
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Nouns
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02/14/2012 07:53 PM (UTC)
I was just reading through some bios and endings for some characters across MK1-4, and noticed that Raiden seems more like an evil entity.

" Raiden's victory comes as no surprise to him. He was never impressed by Shang Tsung's inferior sorcery, Goro's brute force, or the challenge of the other contestants. He quickly becomes bored with his mortal competition and soon invites other Gods to participate in the contest. The Ensuing battles rage on for years. And the wars result in our world's final destruction. Have a Nice Day."

-Raiden's MK1 ending

I know I have read about this somewhere on the forums, but not sure where. Could someone give me an explanation?
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PickleMendip
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STATE FED LIES CHARM EMPTY EYES. Anon.

02/05/2013 12:41 AM (UTC)
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I wouldn't think about it too much, this was before the creators really expanded upon who the characters were or even if these outcomes would lead to another game or not.
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RazorsEdge701
02/05/2013 12:59 AM (UTC)
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Nouns Wrote:
I was just reading through some bios and endings for some characters across MK1-4, and noticed that Raiden seems more like an evil entity.

" Raiden's victory comes as no surprise to him. He was never impressed by Shang Tsung's inferior sorcery, Goro's brute force, or the challenge of the other contestants. He quickly becomes bored with his mortal competition and soon invites other Gods to participate in the contest. The Ensuing battles rage on for years. And the wars result in our world's final destruction. Have a Nice Day."

-Raiden's MK1 ending

I know I have read about this somewhere on the forums, but not sure where. Could someone give me an explanation?


Tobias confirmed once on twitter that they just threw that in as a joke ending since he knew he was never gonna have Raiden turn out to be the winner. Raiden was always intended to be a "mentor archetype" character when he was created and they just never had room to say so in the text until the movie came along.
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Nouns
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02/05/2013 02:17 AM (UTC)
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Oh okay thanks! Also do you know what this "Battle of Sans" is mentioned Kano's MK1 Ending? On another note, this is the tenth MK tourney right? In the game it is mentioned as the first; was this a retcon or is there an explanation?

I'm currently working on a complete storyline where I will try to fit all canon aspects of MK in it.
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RazorsEdge701
02/05/2013 03:43 AM (UTC)
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Nouns Wrote:
On another note, this is the tenth MK tourney right? In the game it is mentioned as the first; was this a retcon or is there an explanation?


They establish from the beginning that Shang has been winning/running the Mortal Kombat tournament for a long, long time. Especially in the official comic that was released in '93. And remember the screen in the arcade game that shows Goro and mentions his 500 year long undefeated streak? So yeah, it was never the "first tournament".

They just mean MK1 is the "first" in the sense of being the first one we see, it's the first game. When they occasionally call MK3 "the third tournament" or say in MK3 endings that a character is preparing for the "fourth tournament", those are errors that sort of break the fourth wall, because MK3 wasn't even a tournament anyway, it was a free-for-all.

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Icebaby
02/05/2013 03:53 AM (UTC)
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I really liked his ending in the first game. Didn't care that it wasn't cannon, I really liked it and wished his endings in the later games didn't suck.

That and I wished Raiden turned out to be evil instead. Have like a M. Night Shamallama twist you'd never see coming in the earlier games rather than the monstrosity that happened to him in Deception.
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RazorsEdge701
02/05/2013 11:47 PM (UTC)
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Oh, I forgot...

Nouns Wrote:
Also do you know what this "Battle of Sans" is mentioned Kano's MK1 Ending?


The word "sans" means "without", and the ending says that "The Battle of the Sans" is what comes after the dismantling of the tournament, so maybe it means that without the rules and control of the tournament, some sort of chaotic war between the realms will happen that destroys everything?

That's just an educated guess, mind you. It was never actually elaborated on since Kano's ending is another non-canon one that never would've come true like Raiden's.
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Nouns
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02/06/2013 02:14 AM (UTC)
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Ok thank you!
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Noobsmoke92
03/20/2013 08:06 AM (UTC)
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Icebaby Wrote:
I really liked his ending in the first game. Didn't care that it wasn't cannon, I really liked it and wished his endings in the later games didn't suck.

That and I wished Raiden turned out to be evil instead. Have like a M. Night Shamallama twist you'd never see coming in the earlier games rather than the monstrosity that happened to him in Deception.


I actually always liked Deception turn of Raiden,because basically,his goals were the same,to protect Earthrealm,but with more ruthless methods. Kinda what Superman is now in Injustice. So you can argue if it is TRULY evil or not,just different point of view on things.

I wish NRS implement his Armageddon endings in some ways in future instalments or kinda "what if" kinda series.
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Quanchi9
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why

06/30/2013 09:05 AM (UTC)
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Raiden was meant to be an evil character, but they didn't make him one. Then they tried it out in MKD and absolutely disaster results. So they made him good in MKA again.sleep
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RazorsEdge701
06/30/2013 06:08 PM (UTC)
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Quanchi9 Wrote:
Raiden was meant to be an evil character, but they didn't make him one. Then they tried it out in MKD and absolutely disaster results. So they made him good in MKA again.sleep


What are you even talking about?

1) Tobias himself said the "evil" ending in MK1 was just a joke/filler, never intended to be canon. I already said this.

2) Raiden didn't turn good again in MKA, that's when he was the most evil. In MKA is when he takes credit for making Liu a zombie and willingly joins forces with the bad guys to fight Taven, man. He didn't become good again until MK9.

3) A lot of people liked MKD's Dark Raiden better than the regular version, who's normally boring as hell, and in MK9 lost a LOT of popularity by acting so stupidly and getting most of his team killed. Maybe you should actually spend some time around the community and get a feel for what people think of characters before you start saying whether or not they're popular or a "disaster".
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Icebaby
07/01/2013 05:16 PM (UTC)
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Noobsmoke92 Wrote:
Icebaby Wrote:
I really liked his ending in the first game. Didn't care that it wasn't cannon, I really liked it and wished his endings in the later games didn't suck.

That and I wished Raiden turned out to be evil instead. Have like a M. Night Shamallama twist you'd never see coming in the earlier games rather than the monstrosity that happened to him in Deception.


I actually always liked Deception turn of Raiden,because basically,his goals were the same,to protect Earthrealm,but with more ruthless methods. Kinda what Superman is now in Injustice. So you can argue if it is TRULY evil or not,just different point of view on things.

I wish NRS implement his Armageddon endings in some ways in future instalments or kinda "what if" kinda series.


Maybe it's just the fact that I didn't like Deception in general, but I just didn't like how he became evil in it. I did enjoy the evil Raiden, just not how he turned into it, if that makes more sense.

Quanchi9 Wrote:
Raiden was meant to be an evil character, but they didn't make him one. Then they tried it out in MKD and absolutely disaster results. So they made him good in MKA again.sleep


Despite having Razor explain everything like always, how in the world was Raiden "meant to be an evil character" when every game he's been in made him look like a good guy, with the exception of Deception/Armageddon?
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WarFair9000
07/10/2013 06:15 AM (UTC)
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maybe this was foreshadowing his fate in deception, where he looks demonicwow
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legoslayer10
07/10/2013 06:28 AM (UTC)
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WarFair9000 Wrote:
maybe this was foreshadowing his fate in deception, where he looks demonicwow
Though a dcent theory, this is impossible. When the first MK was made with literally 4 guys in such a short time, they had no idea it would evolve into a msassive series. They had no idea we'd ever get an MKII. So, with that in mind, in MK1, they didn't now Deception would ever come to exist, so they couldn't plan ahead. They didn't start this until MK4, when they allude Reptile as becoming a "more animalistc being", leading to his transformation into the Dragon King.
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RazorsEdge701
07/10/2013 06:15 PM (UTC)
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legoslayer10 Wrote:
They didn't start this until MK4, when they allude Reptile as becoming a "more animalistc being", leading to his transformation into the Dragon King.


That's not what happened.

Deadly Alliance was the first time Reptile was ever alluded to as changing or mutating.

MK4 said "this is what he looks like without his human disguise". That outfit with the purple pants is supposed to be his "true form" that he was hiding underneath fake skin and a ninja outfit all those years. That's why he looks MK4-ish in remakes like Shaolin Monks and MK9 (with the exception of having 5 fingers instead of 3. That was just an artistic change though.), because they ditched the "human skin disguise" story and have him in his true form but dressed as a ninja.

Also, people sometimes forget that MK1 thru 4 were written by one guy, then that guy left *after MK4* and all the rest from Deadly Alliance on were written by different people. It's highly unlikely that Tobias had any future plans that he relayed to Vogel when he left the company and franchise behind. Vogel used what was already written in the previous games, but he definitely went his own way.
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legoslayer10
07/11/2013 03:16 AM (UTC)
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Oh, I'm not trying to say it was done on purpose. If I did, well, that's a big oops on me. I was fully aware it was just "underneath" the 'ninja' garb. It was just a coincidental thing Ed decided to allude to in Reptile's Bio Kard. Granted, they also had no plans for this, but they 'made-it-work'-ish. It just fell in to place as that.

Random trivia about Reptile in Da, I just wanted to point out; the loading screen featuring the so-called 'evolution of Reptile' used actual character artwork from past games, not renders, specially blended into the background to look more realistic. His UMK3 design and MK4 design are both those of their original artwork.
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xDarkeningKrystals
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07/11/2013 06:51 AM (UTC)
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RazorsEdge701 Wrote:
Also, people sometimes forget that MK1 thru 4 were written by one guy, then that guy left *after MK4* and all the rest from Deadly Alliance on were written by different people. It's highly unlikely that Tobias had any future plans that he relayed to Vogel when he left the company and franchise behind Vogel used what was already written in the previous games, but he definitely went his own way.


That's kinda the problem. I feel Vogel was way too biased in his writing, which if one of the reasons why DA, Deception and Armageddon falters an bit. "I don't like that Johnny died repeatedly so I'll change it simply because I DON'T LIKE IT." There goes any possible growth he had from Trilogy to 4 (Yes, I know he's still kinda an D-bag in his 4 ending, I'm talking about his 4 bio) And one of the reasons why Hsu Hao suffers is from bad writing, he's so flat and barely has anything going for him, and the fact that he has no heart (so apparently no emotions) he's basically an puppet. There is so much potential but completely wasted. and since Vogel doesn't like him either, "Let's off him! Whether it's canon in Jax's DA ending or even his own Armageddon ending, I don't care! Get rid of him!" It's the same thing with Boon and Drahmin. sleep
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Quanchi9
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why

07/17/2013 02:32 AM (UTC)
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RazorsEdge701 Wrote:
Quanchi9 Wrote:
Raiden was meant to be an evil character, but they didn't make him one. Then they tried it out in MKD and absolutely disaster results. So they made him good in MKA again.sleep


What are you even talking about?

1) Tobias himself said the "evil" ending in MK1 was just a joke/filler, never intended to be canon. I already said this.

2) Raiden didn't turn good again in MKA, that's when he was the most evil. In MKA is when he takes credit for making Liu a zombie and willingly joins forces with the bad guys to fight Taven, man. He didn't become good again until MK9.

3) A lot of people liked MKD's Dark Raiden better than the regular version, who's normally boring as hell, and in MK9 lost a LOT of popularity by acting so stupidly and getting most of his team killed. Maybe you should actually spend some time around the community and get a feel for what people think of characters before you start saying whether or not they're popular or a "disaster".
To me it was a disaster. To other people, maybe not. I was stating my own opinion. EXCUSE ME for getting everything wrong in my comment, I'm very sorry I have a life of my own and didn't look into MKD or MKA that much because I didn't give a fuck about the plot. I just skipped all of the cutscenes in MKA BECAUSE I DIDN'T CARE.
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Icebaby
07/17/2013 03:20 PM (UTC)
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Quanchi9 Wrote:
To me it was a disaster. To other people, maybe not. I was stating my own opinion. EXCUSE ME for getting everything wrong in my comment, I'm very sorry I have a life of my own and didn't look into MKD or MKA that much because I didn't give a fuck about the plot. I just skipped all of the cutscenes in MKA BECAUSE I DIDN'T CARE.


Just because someone knows a little bit more about something than you, doesn't mean they don't have a life outside of it.

There's a difference between stating an opinion than what you wrote. You said something about how Raiden was meant to be an evil character, that's not an opinion. What you could have said was "I wish Raiden was an evil character from the beginning." THAT'S an opinion.

Also, if you didn't care, you wouldn't have come back into this thread and state what you just wrote. You obviously do care. tongue
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Quanchi9
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why

07/17/2013 04:33 PM (UTC)
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Icebaby Wrote:
Quanchi9 Wrote:
To me it was a disaster. To other people, maybe not. I was stating my own opinion. EXCUSE ME for getting everything wrong in my comment, I'm very sorry I have a life of my own and didn't look into MKD or MKA that much because I didn't give a fuck about the plot. I just skipped all of the cutscenes in MKA BECAUSE I DIDN'T CARE.


Just because someone knows a little bit more about something than you, doesn't mean they don't have a life outside of it.

There's a difference between stating an opinion than what you wrote. You said something about how Raiden was meant to be an evil character, that's not an opinion. What you could have said was "I wish Raiden was an evil character from the beginning." THAT'S an opinion.

Also, if you didn't care, you wouldn't have come back into this thread and state what you just wrote. You obviously do care. tongue
What. I don't even. Not ALL of my comment was an opinion. Just the disaster part. I didn't say I didn't care about this thread. I said I didn't care about the plot of MKD or MKA and proceeded to skip the cutscenes. Would you mind go getting your eyes checked?
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Icebaby
07/17/2013 10:31 PM (UTC)
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Quit being rude for no reason. No one is being rude to you. Learn to make friends.
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Icebaby
07/18/2013 11:56 AM (UTC)
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Edit -double post
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Quanchi9
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why

07/19/2013 01:57 AM (UTC)
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Icebaby Wrote:
Quit being rude for no reason. No one is being rude to you. Learn to make friends.
Listen buddy, my reasoning on MKO is not to make fanboy friends, only to discuss.
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Icebaby
07/19/2013 02:21 PM (UTC)
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Quanchi9 Wrote:
Icebaby Wrote:
Quit being rude for no reason. No one is being rude to you. Learn to make friends.
Listen buddy, my reasoning on MKO is not to make fanboy friends, only to discuss.


I'm not your buddy pal, quit being a little jerk to me and discuss with other users nicely. Can we get back on topic about this or are you going to continue to cry about what I said to you in your next post?

Anywho...

Raiden was never meant to be an evil character. They never "tried" to see where his character was going to go with an evil direction. They made him evil after the events of Deadly Alliance. In my opinion, I didn't like how it was executed, (mainly because I never appreciated Deception in the first place.) I would like for his evilness to come out again soon... I kinda hope we see it in the next game.
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RazorsEdge701
07/20/2013 05:46 AM (UTC)
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xDarkeningKrystals Wrote:


Now hang on a sec, "Johnny's death was retconned out" isn't necessarily true, it's just sort of an urban legend that gets passed around the MK boards a lot. His DA bio can just as easily be taken as a joke: Johnny refuses to admit he's ever died or make a movie where he dies, because it's a bruise to his ego.

After all, MK9 reconfirms that he was in fact killed by Motaro in the original timeline, when Raiden has a vision of it and prevents it from happening again.
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