This would be a matter of listing the best tourny characters per game.

MK1: Sonya

MKII: Mileena, Jax

MK3: Sub-zero, Kabal

UMK3: Kabal, Human Smoke

MKT: Noob Saibot, Kabal, Rain, Human Smoke, MKII Kung Lao

MK4: Tanya

MKG: Sektor, Kitana

There are other broken characters but those are the tops. I like using just about all characters in all the games I play.

remember jax in mk3 lol

his missiles are stupid fast

Interesting stuff. So Sub's actually broken in MK3, eh? Well, least it's sorta good to know that he's not low tier in all the MK games...heh..

What about Quan Chi in MK4/MKG? I thought he was kind of cheap with that Teleporting Stomp move he had, but I'd like to know what you have to say.

My favorite broken character to use was definitely MK3 Sub Zero. Jumpkick/re-freeze combo was some arcade bliss right there. I miss the broken ice clone to death, but I understood why it had to go... for the greater good.

Right, but what I meant was, if you put MK3 Sub Zero -- MK3/U/T Kabal -- UMK3/T H. Smoke -- Rain -- Noob Saibot and MKII Kung Lao up against one another, who comes out as the strongest character of the MK3 series?

And how do the 4 bosses factor in, I know they aren't tourney used, but they're still in the game and are deathly strong, but immobile and slow...



Yeah, why is MK3 Jax so broken? I've heard that before on these boards and I've never seen an explanation, unless its just what mk2kb said about the speed of his missles.



Yeah, the clone is just so abusable -- but made him really fun to use As for Quan Chi, I haven't really seen a consensus MK4/G tier list, but I think he is High-Middle tier...



Indeed, it had to be done but it woulda been cool if they'd altered some of the rest of his moveset to alleviate the effect changing the clone had on his game. Perhaps sped up his slide and increased the distance it covered (make it like UMK/T Classic Sub's) or made his 6 hit ground combo = 30% instead of 23%. Oh and I'd like to have seen his near-ice shower hit closer to Subz, and seen the far-ice shower become useful - but I dunno how that woulda worked...

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Oh and if you're wondering why I skulled your 2nd post mk2kb, it's cus I added one too many dragon pts on the 1st one.Chrome and I tried to change it to 1, but we couldn't so the skull is to even it out...

Fixed it up. For some odd reason, Shadow Priests can't modify their own given scores. I hope that'll change. Jerrod

Yeah, the recovery time on them was non-existant. They were very annoying. Not as annoying as Sub's broken ice clone IMO but still annoying.

On a side note, why Skull points on a post like this? They were so fast they were stupid. If he had said they were so fast they were "broken" instead would there still be skull points?

It was an accident, they fixed it.

Anyways, yeah Jax's missiles are so fast and take up a good amount of the screen since there's virtually 2 or 3 on at any one time. Also it has to do with who and what else is not in the game why he's scaled so powerful. Punch starters help other characters more than they do him because he is not really going for combos most of the time rather than sweeps, back breakers and missiles to some extent still in UMK3. A character like Sindel benefits greatly off JP starter because of a easy 50% + combos where Jax you have to eek out high 40s with juggle kicks at the end of his combo that don't work on everyone. Then you have other characters like Reptile Ermac and Human Smoke who would give even stupid missile Jax a hard time. In MK3 you could steady stream single missiles, then every 2 stick in a double missile, and if they jump over a single, hit a double to change it up. In UMK3 he has charge time for both missiles when either are fired, so you can't fire a double, then a single instantly, or vice versa, in MK3 you can't fire doubles repeatedly, but you can fire singles instantly after it, Jax never has to come out of firing frames. He's still got the sweep factor, along with Kano, but the missiles put him over. But regardless, MK3 is obselete.

About the bosses, quite honestly they can't be taken seriously, but they have some advantages like no chip damage after the first hit of a combo, they can block within any hit of a ground combo, they can attack without releasing block, can't be thrown, take low damage, give higher damage, weird hit boxes. If you must know, the bosses would be ranked above all other characters, and their tier list would be, Kahn, Kintaro, Goro, Motaro.

Ah, I see. Never ever really play MK3 on kalierra, and on the odd occasion someone is hosting a game, when I'm playing I keep thinking how crappy it is compared to umk. However, that's interesting to know, I'd never heard the explanation before...



Very interesting, I didn't know about the missle limitations on Jax for umk3 or mk3 (don't use him really at all). Actually, it'd be great if there was a list of all the move limitations each character has, like 4 hits max before H. Smoke's, Scorpion's and R. Smoke's spears are disabled etc.

Funny though, the MK team limited his double missles so you couldn't use that move consecutively, yet they did missed the fact that you can double, then single, then double etc. Same with Sub Zero's ice clone, surely with even minimal amounts of testing they woulda caught these things?





Heh, I kinda guessed the bosses would come out on top, even though they don't really count I wonder where Chameleon fits into a complete MKT tier list???
As for Noob, so he's the most broken eh? Is it just cus if his disabler? Which leads me to my next question...



What was the most broken special move in the MK3 series? Noob's disabler, MK3 Sub's ice clone, Kabal's spin, Kung Lao's spin, MK3 Jax's missles, Rain's water ball etc. are all really broken, which is the worst of all?

Most defenetly my fav broken special move in the MKIII series has to be Kabals spin move.. If you time it just right theres no stoping it with finishing the player with some prety devestating combos you cant be stoped.... but you cant forget about smoke that 58% combo can realy upset people.......MK FORE LIFE

Most broken special move in Mk3 is Sub-Zeros ice clone, not Kabals spin. Subs clone was insane!

Others:

Kabals Spin
Jax missels
Sonyas Leg grab

Hmmm, I thought Noob was broken also due to that LK, LK, LK, LK combo he had that was very fast and did 23% damage...

he asks for mk3 series not for mk3, noob's disabler is way more broken that sub-zero's ice clone in mk3.

Perplexing eh? Even more perplexing to me is why the crouching kick corner juggles still exist for the MK1 characters in MKT. And how did Kung Lao's spin go without limiting? I think I've heard that its more limited in the Wavenet version of UMK3 which I had though came out before they finished developing MKT.

Noob Saibot is ridiculous in Mkt, but play the Mega Drive/Genesis Umk3 and you'll see that he's even more overpowered, especially against the Cpu's; they just can't block his teleport grab.

Noob is easily the most overpowered character in Mk history... What with his shadow grab, projectile and super fast abusable teleport grab which can be used in conjunction with an uppercut or roundhouse for max damage(or maybe a combo)

Rain's Rainball isn't really that broken so much as his roundhouse since you can use it to exploit his infinite, but all the others are pretty broken. MK3 Sub's iceclone because it's got unlimited usage and containment if you time it right in combos, very difficult but possible. Kabal's spin because the collision box is gigantic and it's so fast with little punishability, Kung's Spin and dash kick in UMK3 are both broken creating massive broken combos, Sindel's scream is broken because the single hit count deleting setting up multiple screams when you should really only be able to use it once. Stryker's Riot gun exploits infinites since it can be use every 2 consecutive hits, but it might actually be a time limit as well that is very close to the amount of time it takes to do baton dash, aaHP,HP with a slight pause inbetween. Couple these things with the fact some don't activate damage protection and should, and you have broken moves.

After the character guides are done I will have the limitations for every special move that has them listed. Sub's iceclone in MK3, UMK3 and MKT all have the same time limited to them, meaning you can only use them so often after it disappears, like Kitana's fan throw, or Scorpion's harpoon. Scorp's harpoon is different, if you miss it you can use it very soon after, if you connect it, you have to wait a couple clock seconds because you can use another, I think Ermac's lift has almost identical properties, but the lift does damage and doesn't count as part of a combo: Broken.

I believe wavenet UMK3 came out after MKT (but I'm not entirely certain they could be very close together) which is why certain things do not exist in MKT that should, like Ermac's lift counting as part of a combo, Stryker's riot gun being locked after 5 hits, Kung Lao's spin locked after 3 hits, etc.

Chameleon as Noob Saibot is obviously just Noob Saibot and he often gets stuck as Noob. If you manage to get some instances where you change to the right characters, big combos are possible.

My mistake. You guys are correct and the things I wrote arent correct then. I thought the thread was only about MK3.

Kabal's spin is fun to use, however I kinda feel guilty (honestly) when I use it on mame sometimes, just cus it's so broken... Pulling the H. Smoke 50%+ combos are far more satisfying imo, cus at least the ppl you play had the chance of not getting caught in it, Kabal's spin is just so fast - it's very hard to stop if the Kabal player knows when to use it... I actually also tend to over-rely on it as well, leading me to take a beating when it gets blocked...





Well, you were right...for MK3! Actually, both the spin and clone were ridiculously broken in MK3 (you can even use the ground saw after a spin) I wonder which was worse?
And why did they fix the clone for UMK3, but not the spin - EVEN though they stopped the ground saw after the spin???



Fast combo, but crazy fast disabler, coupled with his teleport throw, Hp's, running/walking speed, and pop-up combo, renders that combo unnecessary. I dunno if his hp, hp, teleport etc. inf was fixed for the GH MKT though...



Yeah, Noob's disabler is pretty stupid in terms of brokeness. Lazyness? Trying to be funny/purposefully annoying? Maybe it was the only way Boon could win a match at the office???



Heh, it is mind-boggling - especially Lao's spin. The whiff dask kick combo I can tolerate, I would assume it is VERY hard to pull on an arcade machine, but the corner spin inf is just unforgiveable. Same for the crouching kick infinites in your videos, it surprised me that you found them, but then they should have too...Who tests the MK games?



I don't like to consider the other versions of umk3/mkt, arcade and psx only...just cus they don't really resemble the proper games, I think Dreemernj said that Kung Lao's corner spin inf doesn't even need a hit inbetween revolutions in the SNES version of UMK3 However, it seems Noob is the most overpowered MK'er - which is kinda cool, but he woulda been so much better as a character had he not had the disabler (better because he woulda been more balanced, not as in stronger).



Heh, it's funny that things like Liu Kang's pop-up combo and Cyrax's throw (and air throw) activate damage protection, yet the moves you listed don'tI never understood why they toned down those moves for Cyrax from MK3 to UMK3, his air throw is by far the most difficult in the game to pull off, yet (I think) it's the only one that activates dp. And as for his regular throw, in MK3 he could get what, max 50% off it? And even that wasn't easy, why tone him down so much, he wasn't such a powerhouse was he?

As for the limitation list, I was hoping you'd add it to the character guides, I was even going to suggest it. I know the majority, but even now I'll go to do a move in a match, and it doesn't work cus I didn't know when it gets locked.

About Ermac's lift not counting as a hit, along with every character's air throw (except Cyrax's in UMK3), I'd always wondered why they didn't count in the combo meter - even though Sheeva's and Cyrax's ground throw's do...

And with Chameleon, I guess he's pretty useless. Occasionaly you can get Ermac followed by H. Smoke - but most of the time it doesn't work out that way.

Cyrax's air throw doesn't activate DP, his regular throw does, and it shouldn't. It's just plain dumb, it even reads out damage dealt after it incorrectly as if it didn't do DP. The max you can get midscreen is about 29% damage off Cyrax's throw in UMK3, Throw, aaLP, net, deep JK, aaHP, air throw. In MK3 that combo you can add an extra aaHP, net , and it's 72% because neither the regular nor the air throw counts as a hit in a combo and DP is never activated. A more conventional combo would be throw, aaLP, net, aaHP, net, aaHPHP, air throw, and still decent damage. In UMK3 this is like 25%, registering as 39% which it probably would do if the throw's damage was half like they made it in UMK3 and didn't activate DP. Pointless over balancing for an already not too powerful character, I don't understand it. He'd be ranked higher if they left him alone, probably dead center of the list rather than low mid tier. I'm surprised they didn't make the net count as part of a combo. Why nerf him so much and only weaken Kabal's combos which doesn't even do anything because his spin is still broken.

Liu Kang's pop up B+LP activates double DP, so if you do a ducking LK after his pop up combo, it does 0.5%, if you stick a ducking LK at the end of his ground combo, it does almost 2%, a lonely ducking LK does 3.5%.

Even in MK3, you could block any attack if the saw hit you while you were on the ground, it's like being in the flailing frames for just about anything. The only thing I could see as abusable would be something like, aaHP, spin close to the ground, saw as they are about to drop that catches them in the air, then aaHP,HP, JK, air fireball, which would be 60% unblockable mid screen on any aaspin. In UMK3, you just can't do a saw after any hits, or even off an aaSUJK because a spin after that would be almost perfectly set up for that kind of combo, and that would be a relatively easy 65% mid screen with Kabal. Another thing they changed is, if you hit Kabal blocked or not in UMK3 at any time while the saw is on screen, it disappears, in MK3 it didn't do that. Also in MK3 you could spin them in air once, then wait and spin them again as they drop, you can't do that in UMK3.

Certain moves have weird properties like Ermac's slam. If you hit someone before they touch the ground on his slam, the slam counts as a hit, for example, Slam First half, aaHP, 2 hits, 6% damage. If you do full slam, aaHP, it doesn't say anything, but it really does about 12.5% with the slam doing 5.5%.

Also if you do this combo with Kano on Sindel, HK, LP, aaHP, JK, air throw, sweep, it'll combo the sweep but skip the air throw, and won't add that damage either to the meter, even though you comboed after it.

Noob's Disabler is a cool move, all ninjas have a containment move and his is intersting, but it's just too fast. They should have made it normal speed, or given it normal start up and recovery time and kept it fast-er than others, anything, just not how it is in the game right now on PSX, and also they should have given iceclone time limit, so you can't do another one for a couple seconds after they finish blinking and the cloud goes away, also similar to Kitana's fan throw. Simple thought would have prevent him from being such an atrocity. I only recently realized (because Psykosonic asked me) you can still do Noob's teleport infinite in GH MKT, but it's a little more difficult than the previous version. In the buggy version and N64 you need two jabs juggle to surpass the time limit between uses. N64 because the game is broke as a joke, and buggy MKT because they bounce so high off the jabs you don't have to use a third to exhaust the time out on it. In GH MKT the disabler needs three juggled punch, you can try teleport, aaHP, aaHP, aaLP, D, U, and it'll work, you almost have to pause sometimes even after the third juggle in order to give it enough time to work, and I'm not sure if he can safely do it on everyone, like possibly not Shang and others, but yeah, infinite off his launcher combo. Great.

Correction by the way on Rain's rain ball, I completely forgot how broken it is and I can't believe I did. It has a limit of 3 hits before it is no longer usable, so you can do up to 4 rain balls before going into his infinite. This is not really the broken part as 4 rain balls does 27% (thank God for DP
x-p ). For some odd reason, if you do a rainball near the corner, lift them up and then right as they are about to fall when Rain recovers, throw another rain ball under them, they will stay frozen in air, and you can repeat this forever. If you have the timing down (almost impossible) you can rain ball until the timer runs out.

Ah, I thought his air throw activated DP, but that obviously wouldn't make any sense since you can't combo after it.
However, it does do less damage in UMK3 than in MK3 - why tone it down, and leave Smoke's air throw with the same damage and priority, when Cyrax's is harder to pull off and he is a worse fighter?

You mention Liu Kang's DP - would he have been unbalanced if his pop-up didn't activate damage protection?
The only situation I can think of that would give him huge combos is if you did his pop-up with a punch-starter into the corner and then did multiple JK + Air fireballs...which imo would be sick, and make him that much more fun to use...

I didn't know you could spin them twice successively with Kabal in MK3, interesting to know, as is that Kano combo on Sindel - lol, how do you find this stuff??

Funny that Noob's teleport infinite is still in the GH MKT. I have a couple of MKT strategy guides that deal with the buggy version, and have that infinite listed. These came out way before the GH MKT, yet that infinite still exists (even if it is harder to do).

Finally, I'd love to see that Rain glitch in a combo video. I remember you guys had some of it captured in one vid, but getting the whole thing until the timer runs out would be crazy! Especialy since you say its near-impossible because of the timing...

Yeah I would never bother trying to get a full run through for Rain's time out infinite, it's just not necessary.

You can combo after Cyrax's air throw, you're aware of this, air throw onto bomb = niceness, use it in game, do mid range (B B HK+LK) bomb, and then if they jump at the right point, time an air throw onto it.

Liu Kang would be a bit better obviously, but not much, his corner combo should do about as much as Kabal's, it'd really open his character's chance for corner damage at least and make using the pop up worth it.

MK3&MKT are broken, play UMK3 ;

Lol, how did I forget that? One of my favourite combos ever is the 98% Cyrax one you did on Nightwolf (you guys used to have a screencap of it next to one of the videos at darktemplarz). I remember watching that clip and literally flipping out when I saw Cyrax air throwing onto the bomb --- that whole combo was pure insanity.

I'd have liked to have seen Liu's pop-up not be limited by DP. One of the coolest midscreen combos in the game (imo); Jump-punch + pop-up, JK+Air fireball, Flying Kick is rendered pretty much useless and only cosmetic, cus it does what - 30%? Might as well just do his full 7 hit w/ a punch starter which is 37% I think. Meh, how lame - the pop-up combo is so much cooler.

Then again, I suppose there are many many aspects that could be altered to the shitty characters' game's that would have put them on a more even playing field...



Yeah, I used to like MKT the most - but as time went by, UMK3 showed itself to be the best ever MK game imo.
MK3 was great back in the day, now I can hardly even play it cus I end up tryin to play with UMK3 strategy (punch starters etc.)