Sub-Zero is a kickass character. All of his stances are great.

TakerMK Wrote: Sub-Zero is a kickass character. All of his stances are great.

Cool. Which style did you like best out of his 3 styles and why? In your opinion, what made Sub-Zero a great fighter?

Sub-Zero_7th Wrote: I've noticed that quite a few people here didn't like the way Sub-Zero fought in MK: DA and I remember someone referring to him as a "cruddy character". Although I felt Sub-Zero needed improvements, I didn't find him to be that bad overall in terms of gameplay. I can see the problem with his Kori Blade, but I think his other two styles, Shotokan and Dragon, are actually quite good. He also had some pretty good special moves and I've basically mastered Sub-Zero in MK: DA. What I'm wondering to those of you who didn't like Sub-Zero in the way he was gameplay wise, what was it about him that made him a mediocre fighter or a bad fighter? Again, I'm excluding the Kori Blade on this because that weapon style IS mediocre and hopefully they are going to improve on it in MK: Deception.

Ok first I'd like to point out that Sub Zero is tied with Reptile for my fave fighter EVER in MK, so my opinion is based on Subby in past MK's, and how MKDA's compared.

I know you excluded it, but I will start with the obvious, Kori Blade. It's not terrible, but I felt it was too big. It seems to have been made smaller in MKD, so that's a plus. I also think that a blade made of solid ice would have more 'club like' attacks, not sword like. What I mean is, he would use it as a blade, but beat the opponent like a club - cus the ice is so dense, instead of having regular sword swipe attacks.

Next, Sub Zero himself was too big. I thought he was way too muscular, and it looked weird. Even in his kick-ass alternate outfit, his arms looked HUGE. I think Sub Zero is more of an assasin/theif (well his bro was so I think he would have been taught the same) and would be more slender and evasive. Not this hullking body builder, which is what he looked like in MKDA.

I agree his fighting styles were great, and fit him well. But again, tied in with his size, his movement was too slow imo. He needed to be a skillful, quick ninja. Not and massive, slow old man.

But I still like him, and will pick him first (as I have for every MK bar MK2) in MK Deception.

I just think he needed those changes, and I think he has been changed favorably for MKD...


-EDIT- my fave style of his was 'Dragon' it fit him well

Sub was a cruddy character gameplay wise, he has like 3 safe moves, 2 low jabbes and Shotokan's Kings Krown if blocked. That's it, his styles all bit, but Dragon is his bread and butter.

Sub-Zero_7th Wrote: Cool. Which style did you like best out of his 3 styles and why? In your opinion, what made Sub-Zero a great fighter?

I really like his Dragon stance. All of the attacks are very good. He also has excellent special moves. He is an all around great character.

Sub Zero was awesome gameplay wise I find. I don't feel as comfortable using anybody as I do with Sub Zero. I didn't like the buff look, I like the old look, but I would have given that look to another character and kept subby young. But Gameplay wise I liked him.

Sub Zero lacked in his gameplay. He had bad mixups. His best mixup was in Kori, which is why that stance was good, but he really had bad mix-up options.

He also lacked in the damage department. His most damaging non-corner combo with the Netsu was like 40%. Other characters like jax were doing 50-60% combos without the corner and without Netsu either!

He had few safe moves.

He was not the worst by far. He was my fav and best character, but if you play this game competitively, you will see how other characters are better and what ppl were saying. In MKD, online will allow people to more clearly see a bad character from a good one. Hopefully SZ is much improved.

lacked in damage department?
Scorpion is weaker than sub-zero.

Very interesting posts. I really don't feel like doing the whole quote thing with who said what so I'm sure you will know which questions are directed to.

What exactly are his supposed 3 safe moves? I did read something about his D + 3 move being one of them if I'm not mistaken, but what are the others?

It seems that the majority here like his Dragon style the best. I also remember something about his Shotokan style not being that safe in terms of moves when the opponent blocks, but I feel that when I use Shotokan, it kind of pushes them away a bit and if they try to move closer, I can use something like the Ice Shaker.

With Dragon, I really like to use a combo like 1, 1, 2, D + 2, 1, 2, CS which does 26% damage without the Neijin and 37% damage with the Neijin. If the opponent is in their weapon style and if Sub-Zero is powered up, then the combo will do 46% damage which is pretty good, imo.

Btw, how do you get those very high damage combos with Jax?

Anyway, um..about Sub-Zero's appearance. Yes, I know what you mean. He did seem a bit too muscular in MK: DA. I picture Sub-Zero being a very well-rounded but hard to master fighter. I'm sure many of you would picture him otherwise, but that's how I see him in terms of how I feel as to what kind of fighter I'd want him to be.

He is 6'2" and 210 lbs just like his older brother as well as Scorpion so he's a pretty big guy. Then again, I don't think he should be that muscular or whatever. I think he looks a lot better in MK: Deception. He's got that slimmer, more medium-sized, but well-built build (yes, I know that sounded weird.).

I think Sub-Zero's styles can be improved on greatly and I'm not going to go into much about his Kori Blade since I've kind of already summed up what I said about improvements for it. I think many felt that Shotokan didn't suit Sub-Zero and I can see where they are coming from with that.

The thing that has to be kept in mind is that Karate is like a descendant of Chinese martial arts, especially those of Shaolin Kung Fu. I can tell by the many similarities with the moves and stances and it's no coincedence (sp?) either.

Shotokan should be both fast and strong with devastating power so if they can put those attributes in, then Sub-Zero's Shotokan style would kick ass. Shotokan is a hard and linear style so I think it should kind of be a bit on the rigid style so perhaps that can balance the style out a bit. Another factor that can balance it out would be that it should be a style that takes some time to master.

In terms of techniques, I think it should be a bit more like the Karate style that Johnny Cage used in MK: DA with moves such as the Lunge Punch. For defensive moves, it should use various blocks as well as something like a wrist-lock...similar to the ones used in Chin Na (which I learned a bit of during my time at the Shaolin Wushu Kung Fu Institute).

Dragon should be his harder to master style. This one should be both linear and circular as well as be both hard and soft. It should definitely be a bit on the tricky side and when it comes to power, it should be a bit tough to unlock. I know that may sound rather confusing, but I think Dragon can be more kick ass than it was in MK: DA. It should've had moves like elbow attacks, ripping, tearing, sweeps, etc. In terms of defense, it should use grabs, circular blocks and all that good stuff.

*looks at all he's typed* There I go again.

well, i do like sub-zero but he was a bit sluggish to me. He had little to no flow in his moves, if you plan on using him online, good luck. He really cant do sh*t when someone blocks, since he doesnt have sweeps, he does have an upper cut for when someone blocks but you have to be IN THE PERSONS FACE to do it. Well if he's better in deception there's a chance ill use him because he was my favorite in mk 1-4; he just kinda lost it in DA.

ToxicBomB Wrote: well, i do like sub-zero but he was a bit sluggish to me. He had little to no flow in his moves, if you plan on using him online, good luck. He really cant do sh*t when someone blocks, since he doesnt have sweeps, he does have an upper cut for when someone blocks but you have to be IN THE PERSONS FACE to do it. Well if he's better in deception there's a chance ill use him because he was my favorite in mk 1-4; he just kinda lost it in DA.

He does have a sweep move in Kori Blade.

I didn't really feel a lack of flow in his moves. Like I said, I've pretty much mastered him in MK: DA and I don't mean to say that to be boastful or anything. I'm sure with the speed increase as well as some changes and enhancements with the styles, I'll like Sub-Zero even more.

I made a commitment, I would beat MKDA on Max difficulty with Sub Zero before MKD comes out.

Dragon's low jabs (but mainly d+3) are safe, but do shit for damage, Shotokans 'Kings Crown' is also uncounterable when both hits get blocked. His Dragon u+4 move is a sweet move, pretty fast plus it has good tracking, I even believe it's un-sidestepable, and that's it, Sub-Zero is nowhere near Scorpion, or almost 50% of the other characters in terms of safeness and strength.

CorrezZ Wrote: Dragon's low jabs (but mainly d+3) are safe, but do shit for damage, Shotokans 'Kings Crown' is also uncounterable when both hits get blocked. His Dragon u+4 move is a sweet move, pretty fast plus it has good tracking, I even believe it's un-sidestepable, and that's it, Sub-Zero is nowhere near Scorpion, or almost 50% of the other characters in terms of safeness and strength.

Ah yes, his U + 4 move, the Wheel Turning Kick, is a cool move. I just wished that Dragon had sweeps. If it'll have sweeps in MK: D, Dragon would be better. Is his King's Crown combo 3, 2 or 3, B + 2?

Anyway, despite his lack of "safe moves", I still feel that he's pretty good. Scorpion is much easier to master and I think they made him a bit too good so giving him Moifah and Mugai Ryu will hopefully balance him out.

I'm sure Sub-Zero will be improved on in MK: Deception. His styles really do need those overhauls I mentioned before.

- This is my main Jax combo I use:
Muay Thai: 2,2,5,4,b+2, b+2, 4,4,5,f+4, f,f,d+4 59%

- MKDA on max difficulty is still very easy imo. If anyone is having trouble with it I would hate to see how frustrated they will be when they play online against much better oponents.

- Scorpion is tougher than sub in this game (tho Ill take Sub over scorp everytime) He has bigger combos and better mix-ups/set-ups/more and better safes etc. Scorp also has a much better weapon. Afterall, he is considered rank 1or2 in this game where as Sub is considered dead in the middle.

- In mkd Sub is much better/tougher. Using him online wont be an issue. Heck, even if he stayed the same, using him online would not be an issue IMO. He can still beat every other character if your good.

MobiusakaBorat Wrote: - This is my main Jax combo I use: Muay Thai: 2,2,5,4,b+2, b+2, 4,4,5,f+4, f,f,d+4 59% - MKDA on max difficulty is still very easy imo. If anyone is having trouble with it I would hate to see how frustrated they will be when they play online against much better oponents. - Scorpion is tougher than sub in this game (tho Ill take Sub over scorp everytime) He has bigger combos and better mix-ups/set-ups/more and better safes etc. Scorp also has a much better weapon. Afterall, he is considered rank 1or2 in this game where as Sub is considered dead in the middle. - In mkd Sub is much better/tougher. Using him online wont be an issue. Heck, even if he stayed the same, using him online would not be an issue IMO. He can still beat every other character if your good.

Max difficulty is the level that I've been constantly playing in. When I first got MK: DA I mostly played on medium but now, it's nothing but max difficulty. I'm sure Sub-Zero will be much better in MK: D. I feel he should at least be between mid and top tier. Don't you think he deserves at least that much? I do.

Btw, cool combo. I'll be sure to try it out sometime. Thanks.

I agree with ya'll.

I hate, and never use, the Kori Blade.

I think his weapon should be that he freezes a weapon of another fighter and uses that fighting style.

(Like Scorpion's katana, or Kung Lao's butterfly swords)

I agree with ya'll.

I hate, and never use, the Kori Blade.

I think his weapon should be that he freezes a weapon of another fighter and uses that fighting style.

(Like Scorpion's katana, or Kung Lao's butterfly swords)

Another good combo in dragon to consider is 4,b+2. Starting from shotokan, I might recommend 1,2,b+2,Ice Shaker,CS,PU,1,2,CS. That does about 38%? Not sure. Other than that, not much to add to what the other guys here in this thread said.

Cheers,
VQ

VainQueur Wrote: Another good combo in dragon to consider is 4,b+2. Starting from shotokan, I might recommend 1,2,b+2,Ice Shaker,CS,PU,1,2,CS. That does about 38%? Not sure. Other than that, not much to add to what the other guys here in this thread said. Cheers, VQ

Interesting. I take it that PU is Neijin right? That's an interesting combo. I shall try it out.

I came up with a combo starting from Shotokan that goes 1, 2, B + 2, B + 2, CS, 1, 2, CS which does 29% damage. With the power from the Neijin, it does 41% damage and I bet if the opponent is in his/her weapon style when the combo is being used on him/her, I think the combo will do something like 49% damage.

Btw, I don't like his 4, B + 2 combo that much. To me, moves like 4, D + 4, and maybe even 3 in Dragon should be taken out and replaced with better moves.

Personally, I think a lot of people don't know or care what goes into making a wonderful game like MKDA. But I want to commend the staff that worked on this game because you can see with every fine detail that they really worked a lot of long hours to make a product that the majority of gamers would enjoy. Anyway, about Sub-Zero, there is absolutely nothing wrong with him. Shotokan is a variant of Karate in real life and it is a fighting style that requires patience and discipline. Of course, even though he dosen't have the flare that Scorpion has in this game, he is nonetheless an excellent character that when used in the right way can be very deadly for any opponent. I give him a Goro eight thumbs up in MKDA!!!