98% of those "cheap infinites" doesnt work in reall VS play.
There is only 1infinite that really works and that is Kung Lao,s Spin one.
Stryker,s machinegun corner stuff is also doable (but most time it doesnt happen) but thats it.

Why you call it "cheap" anyway?
Did you try to make them, because you would see that most of them are hard as hell to perform, if anyone would do them in real VS it wouldnt be cheap but people would applaud of the skills the player has because to do stuff like that in real VS against good players is almost impossible (well it is impossible at least for some stuff you see on combovideos)

And by the way, such crazy combovideos are available for any other Beat em Up (Fighting Game).

The infs they would need to take care of are mainly the ones for Kung Lao, Stryker's corner inf. Most of the stuff in the vids is too difficult or requires too much setup to actually be used in gameplay.

Yeah, you both have valid points. Didn't look at it from that perspective. Most of the combo's were probably performed with 2 players with player 2 not present. But I just figured it would be kind of messed up playing against someone who won't even let you breathe (perform a move/make a hit). Just a thought. I still look forward to this game, sadly... I'm a Mk2 player by heart, but I guess learning the combo's can't be that difficult.

I'd like to see Kabal limited a little, maybe damage protection on his pop-up combos. Possibly Ermac limited on the tks lift too, one per combos. One aaJk, even one blocked teleport punch and an aaHP = bam - 70%+ gone...

Liu Kang's pop up shouldn't do double damage protection either...

Cyrax and Sheeva should go back to their MK3 properties (no dp on their throws, higher damage for his air throw. I'd like to see a net first, then a bomb again too.)

As Dreemer said, Kung Lao's spin should be limited, ala MKT (or UMK3 Wavenet, wasn't it curbed in that too? Dunno how though, never seen any Wavenet footage). Speaking of unescapable inf's - Nightwolf's 3 hit corner kick combo should force a push back.

Scorp should have his forward teleport.

Would be cool if they gave Sektor the double missle too. Sindel possibly gets her MKT double fireballs... I think I could go on and on here.

Of course, none of this will happen - they'll probably port the Saturn version...



Actually, anyone else wanna give their ideas on how to improve / make the perfect UMK3??? Good answers = dragon points.

There are so many things that could be done. Personally, I'd like to also see them add system wide damage scaling. Damage protection was a good step, but I think it should be taken further. I say this because I don't want to limit how crazy a combo can get, since it feels really good to get one out in game. But, if the damage was limited a bit more, I think it would be better.

I think the focus should be on moving the low rank characters up. The number of characters that are definately useable is already so large that upping the lower characters might be the more reasonable way to go. For instance, Sheeva. She's a big girl. Make her fall to the ground faster. She is a bigger target for combos, so shrink the window to get combos on her.

And it would be interesting to experiment with making moves with long startups (D+HK for example) have a reason to be used. Maybe add a new kind of hit, interrupt them with one of these moves with longer startup, and get a moment of stun or something. Just a thought.

It's an arcade port, so whatever you're able to do in the arcades you should be able to do on the 360. And Most of those combos from the "broken" vids are from MKT wich was just awful.

Interesting. I have to admit I do like whipping off a huge combo in game (that's pretty much the only way I win rounds online, as I don't have any 'run jab' game, strategies etc.) it's is extremely satisfying / gratifying. One of my faves is Robot Smoke - aaJK, teleuppercut, Hp, 5 hit auto = 9 hits - 63% So limiting that aspect would be kinda lame, the high damage readouts are cool, and relatively rare - but 50% in one set of moves is reasonable, once you go beyond 70% it's a little silly, so I agree with some limitation.

As for improving the lower characters, I'm all for it. That's why I'd like to see Cyrax and Sheeva have MK3 damage, and Liu not be so inhibited. Having his pop w/ a punch starter, JK + air fireball, flying kick = only 30% is a travesty! Making character's like Sheeva and Shang redundant was a terrible mistake, I'd definitely like to get Shang on random and not sigh...




Well, D+HK again falls into the redundant pile (unless we're talking MK1 Kano and Raiden in MKT). Perhaps pulling it off could result in a Cage ball breaker / Jax MK2 hammer style stun - yes, great idea. aaJump Punches seem pretty useless too, same with the straight up in the air kick - need to find some uses for these moves - good thoughts.

I posted this on another site a couple weeks ago, it pertains to UMK3 and MKT in terms of a balancing act:

MKT added characters and new moves to those characters, and moves to existing characters. They tweaked some things here and there to balance gameplay, but totally unbalanced the game itself by not fixing the obvious problems with Rain, Noob Saibot, MKII Kung Lao, and Baraka. I mean, if they could have beefed up every other character in some way, then everyone would be powerful and it would be balanced in that sense.

To get everyone within a "top 10" list:

Kabal is hugely broken because of his spin, and his combo damage, particularly in the air. Let's start with his ground combo when started after a spin. Give Kabal's spin damage protection, and a time limit like Kitana's fan throw so it cannot be used repeatedly, but give him back his normal combo damage to not be totally jipped by the new damage protection off his spin. In MK3, 5 hit pop up, JK, AFB is 40%, in UMK3 the same combo is 30%, with a JP starter it's 39% so he pretty much regains the damage of MK3 as long as he gets the starter. If the spin did damage protection, the JP starter would do 5%, and the first hit of his combo would do 5%, so that's 10% less, and now you're down to 31% after the spin even with a starter. Giving him back the normal damage combos he goes back up to 41% with a starter even though 2 hits are DPed. The place where the DPed spin would be most noticable is for punishers. If he blocks a teleport punch, guaranteed afterwards he can do a standing HP, cancel to spin, HPHP, JK, AFB which is 49%. DPed spin would mean, everything after the HP does half damage. So you have HP at 6.5%, and then the rest of his combo does 21% instead of 42%, resulting in 28%. A much more reasonable freebie combo. This would force people to just do aaHPHP, JK, AFB with no spin inbetween, however, the reverse spin under JKs is still a major part of his defense, so instead of 42% he gets 21%, or, an unDPed uppercut. This means Kabal needs to get *5* aaSpins in one match to win. The only place he would be strengthened is in an unspun normal combo with a JP starter, scoring him 50% with JPS, 5 hit pop up, JK, AFB.

Human Smoke - remove his air throw and you have a reason to use Scorpion over him who is brought up significantly with the forward teleport punch, and while we're on Scorpion, removed DP from his regular teleport punch and now he is in "the top 10" that will soon consist of 32 characters.

MK3 Kung Lao's spin is now limited to 1 usage so that brings him down to earth greatly.

Noob Saibot's Disabler - slow it down, limit the teleport piledriver to one usage per combo, anywhere in the combo so he still has juggling options but no chance for infinite. Disable the Disabler after 1 hit like Sub's freeze. Keep the Disabler's properties.

Rain - Regular Roundhouse, make the Super roundhouse a special move B, B, HK, 1 per combo, no DP after his lightning, no DP on his rain ball.

MKII Kung Lao - Limit the dive kick to once per combo, removing his semi infinites, have him do normal damage, in fact, have everyone do normal damage. He'd still be powerful even with all this but down to earth.

Baraka - damage protection on the spin, or limit it to 1 usage per combo, so spin, aaHP, JK (under normal damage is more like 30% than his 50%+ he has now)

Now that the ridiculously powerful characters are brought down to earth, everyone else has a better chance who already existed in the top 15 usable characters in MKT, with some modifications, the mid and low tier characters can also become top tier. Here are some examples.

They could have taken away the double damage protection on Liu Kang's pop up, and no run in free combo option after the bike kick, this would have improved him greatly. If not this, give Liu Kang invisibility (think his inferno fatality animation)

They could have reprogrammed Unmasked Sub's ice clone to make a little more usable, but not as broken as MK3.

They could have given Jax back his no recharge single missile only after using a double, in UMK3 the single missile inherits from use of the double missile and also has it's own recharge.

Kitana could have had no damage protection on her fan lift and/or fan throw.

Mileena could have had no damage protection on her roll or Sai throw.

Sheeva and Cyrax could have no DP on their throws, it would have improved them a bit.

They could give Jade an air throw (think the pogo stick frame)

Stryker no recovery time off the double grenade, but limit his riot gun to 5 hits, this way he can do JPS, 4 hit pop up, riot gun, dash, HPHP, double grenade and still be able to do 50%.

Sonya - no special DP on her leg grab

I've never had an experience with Xbox Live but do you know guys know the quality of the games they put out (like should we get our hopes up)? I heard that SFII was buggy as all hell and they just released a patch, but should folks expect the same with UMK3?

Right now D+HK is basically pointless. aa Jump Punches have some purpose since they knock your opponent a little higher than aa.JKs do. But there isn't a huge use for them aside from air combo starters.

The appeal for straight up jump kicks (sujk) I think is there already. Sujk typically does more damage than forward or backward jump kicks, I assume since they are harder to land on people. And, for a character with a containment that lets you jump, sujk starter to air combos is a realy bonus.

I thought that this was only true for MK1/2. I didn't notice the same in MK3/U/T.

My suggestion is for Unmasked Sub-Zero. His clone is fine how it is, any other way and it will be broke like it was in MK3. But have him retain the ability to use his other ice attacks while the clone is out. Uber Turtle lol

Cyrax...bomb after net hits, but limit the nets to one per combo.

Sektor...remove the start up for his regular missle so it fires immediately and give him double missles aka MKT.

Sheeva...give her the stomp like Shock and I added to the MK Mugen project. Lower her hitbox slightly so all of the "sheeva only" infinites no longer work on her. In the MK Mugen project, she also has an air fireball, but this makes her too powerful...I'd post a vid if I had time of how broke she is with it.

Shang...give him the ability to morph back to shang at any time with like B,B,Run or something.

This thread is has taken a turn for the better. Shock, we should make a thread on UMK.com with these suggestions. Once these stupid vids are out finally, MK Mugen will be our baby again.

I like the idea of how to improve and giving a reason to choose Scorpion. Having two almost identical characters, though one vastly superior to the other due to a few changes, seems pointless. Whereas altering Scorpion in the way you've suggested, as well as inhibiting Smoke by removing the air throw, would make for very interesting Smoke vs. Scorp matches I would think.

Liu Kang's double dp is ridiculous, I still don't get why they did that. It's not as if he had a non damage protected pop-up in MK3 that made him super broken or anything. The invisibility would own too, the flying kick would be great while invisible. Heh, imagine pulling off his corner Jk + air fireballs while invisible - that would look sick. Good idea on the fatality animation for the start up too.

As for Subby, I was wondering what it would make him like if they gave him his early revision MK3 damage (UMK3 CPU damage) on his 6 hit auto combo? 30% rather than 23%. Add a JK starter and it's 42% however. Too broken? Two freezes and that's 84%...



sujk cool, I'd always called them straight kicks. Of course, adding a sujk starter to sub zero or cyrax's 6 hit auto combos really helps add damage (11% and 12% respectively). I just didn't know they did more damage than a JK, as I only found usage for them to start of the round to counter noobs who jump in right off the bat. That or when you catch some with Sub Zero frozen high in the air --- late sujk to freeze.



Isn't that how Super Sub Zero is in N64 MKT? Anyone know how he turned out in that version cus I like the idea of being able to use the ice showers when the clone is out - kinda make it like when Cyrax has a net and a few bombs on the screen.

The one thing I'd want to retain from MK3 would be the ability to deep jump kick your opponent, then immediately cancel into an ice clone and freeze them. I loved doing this in MK3... d,f,LP to freeze a guy on the ground, then jumpkick->clone to freeze them again, then then some sort of aa combo.

So what if they did something like... the clone will come out after a jumpkick, but ONLY if the jumpkick connects (and then I guess the move could be disabled for the rest of the combo). So if the JK is blocked, the clone acts like the normal disappearing UMK3 clone.

Would this be reasonable or do you think it would still break the ice clone?

The stomp for Sheeva would be cool and would keep with her character. Personally, I've always thought she needed an Air Throw as well. I forgot about that earlier. First because she has 4 arms so she should be grabbing like crazy, but also because air throws add quite a bit to a character and I don't think it would break her in any way, just give her a very powerful tool. And it would give her something to make her more of a threat against jumpers. Just a thought though, and nothing ground breaking.

Morph control with shang would Definately boost him. I was even thinking of making morphs so you did a move to morph back to shang, and make the morphs happen almost instantly so that they could be pulled off mid combo easier, but make morphing activate damage protection. Not sure if that would do much to help him though. It might just make him a crazier character.

Where can I find the newest version of that MK Mugen?
(with the Sheeva airfireball stuff)

I saw links to the newest MKProject the other day but they are on a different comp. I'm not sure if the Sheeva stomp made it in. I don't think the people making that game know what good gameplay is despite the outcries of people that want to make it right.

mk mugen sucks, changing the original umk3 sucks