there are no better characters, but some of them have easier ways of fighting off an opponent. I think that is why people say that this character is "better"... no, not better, but has more possibilities for fighting. Or has a wider range of assaults, defends or anything.

I hear you! The main downfall to MKD & MKDA (not to bash either game) is that when characters get knocked down, they automatically get right back up on their own (not upon your commands). This is a main reason why infinites & such are so widely used now in MKD. All a player has to do is determined the timing as to when a character gets up after being knocked down, since they randomly get up & repeat their same process over & over (especially if a character's trapped in a corner).
If players were actually able to have control over the timing as to their characters heaving, then it would help out the gameplay ten folds. You'd be able to trick players as to when you're going to get up. Making cheesy Nightwolf corner tae kwon do abusers & infinite busters as such, less bulletproof. I truly hope that Midway implements some better game mechanics in MK7.
The most simple gameplay mechanics can change a game drastically.

"The most simple gameplay mechanics can change a game drastically."
EXACTLY!
I fall down, and then, no matter what I do....no matter WHAT I do, they continue their cheesy combos.. ....which in some regard, I don't even blame them. I blame Ed Bood and his team for paying more attention to the great graphics and gore then to what makes fighting games fun long term, gameplay mechanics.
When I lose to someone with skill, I'm impressed. When I lose to unavoidable cheese, I feel like I'm not playing.
Ed Boon, are you listening?!

I hear you!
Yes, I have to agree on that with my full and entire heart and head.

Well first off you didn't put much thought into your question.
The initial question about blocking high low avoiding throws. Obviously people can do this. Look at the games that mk got the idea from in the first place. Tekken or virtua fighter have tons of moves compared to MK and have plenty of mid low high unblockable hits multiple throws etc... People can block on those games why wouldn't they be able to do it on this one? Its only luck for you to block these if you are not really that good. You need to play the odds. Whats the most damaging option your opponent has. Thats they move they will want to land on you. If that move is one that on block leaves them open they are less likely to do it without first doing some safe moves that hit low or some throws.
Second question is there such a thing as a skilled player without resorting to that type of gameplay? Well you didn't really give much of a description of the type of gameplay but I'm going to guess you are complaining about 50/50 mixups. The game was poorly designed it's fighting engine is garbage period. MK games have always had fighting engines that were not as good as there so called competitiors capcom and snk fighters in the past now VF SC 2 Tekken 5 etc... You come to expect this if you are a fan of MK however the design of deception was worse than even there normal sub par standard. The fact is the game breaks down into a 50/50 game. Now you could argue that it's cheap or not skilled to play that system but it's whats most effective because of other flaws. Quite often the risk vs reward on moves is poor on deception. You can do a jab which on a game like virtua fighter would be low risk low reward however on deception if that jab is blocked well your opponent has a huge window to hit you for a nasty combo or throw. It's high risk low reward for a lot of moves on deception. This encourages you to find the short list of moves that don't leave you at a massive disadvantage and this obviously further limits your gameplay options.
There is some bizarre idea that being skilled is different from being cheesy. As a former national level tekken player I can tell you that on every other fighting game I've played they go hand in hand. The top players are very skilled but also go for the easiest option. Tekken or MVC etc... give you some more gameplay options but the plan is the same regardless. You watch a video of a top player like rowtron or justin wong and you can see some fancy combos but they also go for a simple gameplay style. Skill != fancy. I was a well respected player and usually did well but I wasn't fancy I had great strategy and had great basic execution. You knew if I caught you with a juggle I wouldn't drop you and you would have a hard time hitting me after I got a big lead.
Now your final comment about the new mk's being broken and no skill. Again I went over skill above but to go more into it. The old MK were no different. MK 2 which quite a few think is the best it wasn't possible to beat the top tier(mileena, jax, kitana) without using another from the top tier. The game broke down into a turtle game for the most part and the top 3 were some of the few who could actually pressure as well as turtle. Fighting a good mileena was frustrating. Constant jump cancels to air sais barely off the ground so the sai actually is lower than her ground sai and recovers faster. If you jump you eat a ball into a combo or a teleport kick. You can't trade hits with the sais because she will be able to block and you can't use projectiles against her cuz she can avoid with an air sai, teleport kick, or roll. Kitana was about as bad but it was a bit harder to cancel into an air fan with her. Jax ground pound forced people to move around and let him get close where he was nasty. MK 2 has a ton of counter characters after that. Scorpion, liu kang, and kung lao can't beat a good cage ever as an example. If you remember that mk 2 high level was any different than high level deception you either didn't play any good people or you just have a tainted memory. UMK 3 was worse it was ALL about running jabs. Push somebody into the corner and just run in and jab over and over again. Hard to counter it without being a high level player yourself. Yet on all these games the skill still shows if you are not blinded by scrub mentality. When people connect with their mixups they tend to have nasty combos that they unleash on you. Sometimes though it's not best to go for the highest damage combo you can sometimes it's best to do a weaker combo that leaves your opponent in a position where they must guess followups. This is exhibited by high level jack play on tekken 3 and tekken tag. There was a tournament in japan that was won by a jack player. If he juggled you he didn't go for damage he would do a hit or two and let you drop. This wasn't because he wasn't skilled it wasn't because he messed up. It was the oppisite he was extraordianarily skilled. He dropped you because it put you into a 50/50 guessing game against him that even if you guess right on left him relatively safe. The same holds true on deception go for the big damage that you might escape or could possibly mess up on or go for the safe damage that gives you options to continue to put pressure on your opponent. It's not cheap it's not cheesy it's smart and it shows that the player is strategic in their gameplan.
As for the fun well again I've played at high levels on a few games done well in national tournaments and taken advantage of most everything I could with my characters. It was amazingly fun. I loved competing against high level players with great strats good 50/50 mixups who used infinites and glitches. All it did was make me better. I never said man he's cheap cuz he used red venoms infinite on me I said well how did he get me into the infinite. I look at the overall strat and I combat that. I got my ass handed to me when I first encountered a red venom player who was good as well as a good wolverine but I adjusted. I didn't whine it was cheap or not fun. It was great fun even losing. After couple days of practice I turned it around and was avoiding all the setups and countering the strategy of the red venom player. In a game filled with infinite combos I got hit less than 20 times in probably thousands of games. It was because I didn't complain about it being cheap I just learned how to avoid it. With a game like deception that has such a horrid fighting engine it's pretty much impossible to avoid but I still don't discount somebody for taking full advantage of the engine. The second I lost your attitude of it not being fun fighting games became a hunder times more fun to me. I mean it's stupid to try to compare it to anything else. What other competition casual or otherwise is limiting your opponent or yourself part of it? It would be like in basketball if people said the heat suck because they take advantage of shaq's dominance. It may not be fair and it might be the easy way to do things but it's smart. What if michael jordan had been banned from basketball for being too good? What if barry bonds wasn't allowed to play because it was unfair for the other teams? Look at professional fighting. If knee's and elbows are allowed against somebody who is on the ground expect to see the fighters take advantage of the free hit. Does it make the fighter cheap? Did he have less skill because he took a free hit? It's stupid to limit fighting games too just because it's a game doesn't mean it shouldn't be played to it's fullest.
Adding wakeup would help on deception but just being able to control when/how you get up isn't enough. They really need to add in a lot more things that are 100% standard in every single other 3d fighter out there such as throw escapes multiple throws ground hits wakeup games and for gods sake some proper frame use not this garbage thats in deception jab giving -60 frames is absurd.

Well, you are entitled to your opinion. No matter how long, opinionated, and drawn out it is.
A quick retort. I am very familiar with games that require you to block high, mid, or low. Soul Caliber 1 and 2 are perfect examples and I don't have a major problem doing it. Moves in Deception start out too quick to determine (sometimes) where it's coming from. At least for me, oh mighty 1 true king of fighting games.
Furthermore, I agree with some of your ramblings. But I disagree with your basketball analogy. Michael Jordon is a human being. He's not a cheat code. But if he brought a kitana sword out on the court whenever the referee wasn't looking while we was dribbling the ball, then I'd say that's unfair, cheap, and maybe even cheesy. I also mentioned that I did not blame the "cheesy" player for doing only what is allowed to be done in Ed Boon's game. I blamed, Ed Boon. I don't expect skilled or unskilled players to stop being cheesy nor do I complain to these people. Obviously you must have people complain to you about your cheesy play mechanics to get so defensive when, again, I clearly blamed the maker, not the player.
Nevertheless, I welcome everyone's input on this subject and can only hope that the MK team will tighten up what we both consider a sloppy fighting engine.
If you want to discuss classic MK in that forum, I'll find you there because I disagree with almost everything you said about that topic too.

First off, don't listen to this guy, he's wrong:

And secondly, yeah, you're pretty much right. The game is broken beyond belief. The reason you get hit while sidestepping is because of the glitchy universal tracking. Just hit up on the d-pad before you attack and even the most linear attacks will track and hit your sidestepping opponent.
There is no skill in this game. Only cheese. You get beat by people who use it, and you have to use it to compete. Just the way it is.
I'd say skill is sorta like 'wisdom' - knowing what moves to use and when - and 'cheese' is a part of the game, so knowing how to use it and when, is part of being skilled. Somebody who mashes out tombstone drops isn't as skilled as somebody who tries to set it up to decrease the chances of it missing.
By the way, 1TruKing means well, but I think we all just get a bit defensive (or offensive, whatever) because we're so used to arguing with idiots (which you're clearly not).

1TruKing...are you talking to walls again?

Hey Konqrr, I'm gonna tell you this. Knock it off, alright?! This isn't the time, nor place. This had started off as a legitimate discussion till' you and 1TruKing hopped onto this board and started hatin' as usual.

Oh my God...
1) This was never a legitimate discussion.
2) King was right, even if he isn't very tactful (no need to be).
3) Konqrr was funny.
4) They're not hating, they (or really all of us) who bash Deception do so because we love MK and hate seeing what it's become. We want it to improve. If you're pacified by blood and other gimmicks, good for you, but some of us expect more. I pay 50 bucks to be entertained, not to be bored and somewhat disgusted.

Thank you for confirming my opinions about you.
Lets take a look at michael jordan. You notice in your first post you never mentioned anything about cheat devices. You only mention a cheesy style of play so whats the point of comparing MJ with a katana? It doesn't fit into your arguement at all. Do you ever remember what you wrote in the first place? The michael jordan analogy works just as well as all the others. MJ was obviously better in his prime than anybody else in the league. Remove him from the bulls and they probably don't win a championship. He was an advantage but nobody would discount the bulls for using him. Nobody would say they were not a good team or skilled just because they went to jordan and at times he scored 1/4 or better of their total points. Nobody made comments like if you didn't use michael you wouldn't beat us. Now compare this to fighting games where people say if you didn't use throws you wouldn't beat me or if you didn't use this or that random thing you wouldn't beat me.
You did say you didn't blame the people for being cheesy but you still consider something cheesy that shows that you like to limit your play and think others should as well.
It's flawed logic to think that I Obviously you must have people complain to you about your cheesy play mechanics to get so defensive Actually I wasn't defensive. Read my post again it wasn't defensive in the least. If you read my post you also see that I said I was a high level and well respected player. No I really didn't have people complain about my tactics it was often the oppisite. I got things like wow I've never seen war machine played like that I thought he was bottom tier or I've never seen lei played like that I didn't think he had any sidestep game let alone a triple sidestep(/rude namco for screwing lei over on tekken 4 and 5).
As for classic mk discussion there isn't a point. I'm sure konqrr would back me up on that style of play and I know if you look for videos from lexx or ewashock you will see exactly what I said. I doubt you've seen a mileena, kitana or jax played like I described.
You came back more or less exactly how I thought you would confirming you do indeed possess the widespread mentality I'm so fond of mentioning. Try reading and understanding my post before you take poorly veiled shots at me.

Talking to walls is much more entertaining than talking to people with a scrub mentality though I'm sure you know that. At least with walls there is some variance in the type of wall some are tall some are short but they are different with the scrub mentality they are all identical and its well

Hmm I looked over my post no hating in it. It was a comment on the topic just from the other side. A view that there really isn't anything cheesy and people who complain about cheese in any form have a mentality that is often referred to as "scrub". Now your post is clearly hating on me though. Hypocrite much?

(Sigh) Here we go again (another flamefest). You may not value the opinions of others, even if they may yours. I've read your other posts in the the past (ones directed at you by fellow mod Temp), and it's clear who's the hypocrite in this case aspect. This discussion isn't legitimate in your eyes (as to some others), because you don't value opinions, unless they speak in your favor. BTW, how was my last post in any way an attack on your personal character, hm? If anything, it was trying to prevent a flamewar, such as this here.
The guy was just stating his opinions in the most reasonable matter(whether you agree with them or not, you have NO right to attack his viewpoints) & yet, he STILL gets flamed!! It seems as though just about any thread to which you touch manages to somehow turn into a flamewar. Guys like you & Konqrr praise people to whom side with your opinions & despise those who believe otherwise. Anyone to whom has a different viewpoint from yours is considered an idiot. Seriously, ya'll need to grow up.
In not trying to diss you or anything, but it's just that your approach is flat- out tasteless. You try comparing & contrasting games such as Tekken to MK (two entirely different fighting games with different engines. In one game you hold back as your defense, as with another you hold a trigger, drastically altering your ability to block high & low attacks) so your entire theory on blocking high & low attacks is completely fruitless. Comparing those two games is like comparing Virtua Fighter to Bloody Roar! If you're going to attempt to exercise your viewpoint, at least get your facts straightened first. Anyhow, this is MortalKombatOnline buddy, not Tekken Central.
BTW, the next time you try attempting to use the word "hypocrite" in one of statements referring to another, I strongly suggest that you at least look the word up in a dictionary first. Want to prove something? You already have.

I guess I'll just have to keep reiterating, since you're apparently blind to see the facts. This entire post is attempting to draw out some of the flaws of MKD in an attempt to make the future installments better, not praise them. I'm not posting to whine & grope about MKD. Whoever said anything about being all about blood & gimmicks? Stop placing words in people's mouths, son. What have you stated that's clearly identified some flaws of MKD besides go on about how much cash you spent on the game & how disappointed you were with the results. You need to stop trying to defend 1Truking & Konqrr & face the facts. Read before you post, man. READ!!!

I've read every post in this thread and i still stand by my original comments.

Ignorance is bliss.

I sense irony.

Beat me to it.

Man, that response (your attempt at a flame) was just too weak for words (at least learn some better insults before attempting to go into a flamewar). Have you contributed in any way anything useful to this post? Nah, you're too busy contradicting yourself with your weak one-liners. Seriously, if you're not going to contribute anything remotely of interest to a topic, then just send a PM or don't even bother to post.
Enough said.

Dude, what the fuck are you babbling about? I was just lamenting the fact that FLSTYLE beat me to a good comeback.

Whoa calm down there, sonny!! Need others to back up your statements, I see (can't make judgements upon your own will)..? Hm..that explains everything. Don't have a mind of your own? Need I say more?

If you thought I was flaming him in my first post you have some issues. I didn't think he put much thought into the question and I stated as much. I went on to discuss my viewpoint on it. Now you seem to have an issue here with my viewpoint. It's ok for anybody else to post there views but I posted a more thought out view than anybody else and suddenly I'm flaming. Your response mentions me hating specifically. Thats a shot at me for no reason. You are right it's clear who the hypocrite is in that case I'll give you a hint its you. I never said this discussion wasn't legit don't put words in my mouth that was drcube who said that. I guess reading isn't required to be a moderator here eh?
He stated his view poorly I responded and he took a couple minor shots at me. I corrected him and rebuked his statements. This is all part of a normal discussion. I don't consider everybody who has different opinion than me to be an idiot I consider people who are idiots to be idiots. I don't think check is an idiot and said as much in another thread and he disagrees with me. I forgot you have that whole issue with being able to read.
So my theory that you can block mid and low attacks on MK is fruitless? In other words it's impossible to block mid and low attacks because you block different than you do on tekken? Uh sure. Please explain why it's fruitless again I'm still just not getting it. As for the engines being totally different.

Actually the entire first post wasn't about drawing out the flaws. The last paragraph was but initially it was discussing whether you can win with skill without being cheesy. Are you positive you can read?
Maybe it's me but it seems your posts are a lot closer to flames in this thread then my initial post. You have issues with me because of what your fellow mods have encountered so you are doing just what you accuse others of in this thread. Do you actually have your own opinion or do you need others to decide things for you?

Agreed. Seems like he's just kicking up dust and trying to take everybody on for the hell of it, adding relatively little to the actual topic at hand.

What's wrong? Can't handle the truth? Sorry playboy, but all those long, strung-out, abstract posts(and links) you provide don't impress me a bit. Call me hater all you want. I may not know you personally, but I know a rat when I smell one.
Your questions should be mine. I'm not even going to get into deep detail trying argue with someone who's blind to see facts (no need wasting breath). No need to drag myself to your level. Point blank, I came, I stated, I left. Good day, sonny!!

Point at hand? What have you contributed here? NOTHING but stick your nose where it doesn't belong (trying to go along with the crowd). I can see why so many of you love to try & defend your precious 1TruKing, because ya'll love to see the flame wars which he engages in escalate.
I knew from the start that I'd take a lot of heat from you fanboys & I wholeheartedly realize that I'm the minority here & that suits me just fine. This has never once, prevented me from voicing my opinions, despite how much it goes against popular judgment. So, keep those flames coming!!